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Is Leon Washed-upington?


Kleckineau
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Thanks for the info... puts things in perspective. Running game doesn't LOOK as productive, but it wouldn't if we're running it that much less. Still would like to see us develop the ability to "punch" it in on the goalline, and also hang on to the ball longer and give the D some rest here and there.

Its pretty much been all LT so far. I have the productivity numbers on my site but he is way above average. Against Baltimore his avg YPA was 91% higher than their norms from last year against a teams number 2 back. Against the Pats he was 89% higher. Greene has been average or slightly below. Against the Ravens he was about 1% above average in YPA. Versus NE he was almost 29% below the number 1 back average. Thats not a good day.

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he had a 41yd kick return.. i dont think that is washed up..

and by the way... dont you have college applications and essays to do??? ;)

I agree with the boy, it's too soon to tell.

But, 11 players have KR of 40 yards or more at this point and by average, Seattle is 30/32 in the league.

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Thanks for the info... puts things in perspective. Running game doesn't LOOK as productive, but it wouldn't if we're running it that much less. Still would like to see us develop the ability to "punch" it in on the goalline, and also hang on to the ball longer and give the D some rest here and there.

Punch it in? You mean like leaping for a 4th and 1 with the game on the line against the Pats?

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LW is two games into the season after an injury so horrendous members of the team we were playing at the time nearly keeled over and puked. He'll rebound. It'll likely take a little time, though. Never understood why Jets fans hate on people who get traded or released--even after they've been solid, dedicated players here. Pennington, Faneca, Jones, Washington--all good men and big contributors over the years. They get dumped and now they're somehow douchebags. Very grade school.

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i miss LEON. much better to have an inactive mcknight then a Veteran RB who is a leader in the locker room and can be dynamic player.... yep ..great trade off

OY!

I know you miss him, Honey, but that was a smart business decision for the Jets. They got LT for less than what they were going to pay Leon, and they got John Conner with the pick they traded him for.

If McKnight never amounts to anything, it was a good move. If McKnight ever gets his head out of his a$$, it'll be a great one.

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he had a 41yd kick return.. i dont think that is washed up..

Uhm, Leon is getting paid $1.7 million this year, that's a lot of money for a kick returner. LT is making $1 million base this year and McKnight is making $350,000. And Leon is looking for feature RB money ($6 mil per).

Leon is washed up as a RB.

So if you could have LT & McKnight for $1.35 million or Leon for $1.7 million, what would you choose?

Edited by SMC
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LW is two games into the season after an injury so horrendous members of the team we were playing at the time nearly keeled over and puked. He'll rebound. It'll likely take a little time, though. Never understood why Jets fans hate on people who get traded or released--even after they've been solid, dedicated players here. Pennington, Faneca, Jones, Washington--all good men and big contributors over the years. They get dumped and now they're somehow douchebags. Very grade school.

I don't hate Leon and never will.

I just believe it's Karma because Leon and his agent are EPICALLY STUPID & GREEDY. They insisted on Mauric Jones Drew money ($6 mil per) and Leon was never that type of back. Leon could have been protected if he got injured by signing the extension. He and his agent acted stupidly and it blew up in their faces.

Leon is 29 yrs old, he was never getting a bigger payday than what he would have gotten from the Jets.

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LW is two games into the season after an injury so horrendous members of the team we were playing at the time nearly keeled over and puked. He'll rebound. It'll likely take a little time, though. Never understood why Jets fans hate on people who get traded or released--even after they've been solid, dedicated players here. Pennington, Faneca, Jones, Washington--all good men and big contributors over the years. They get dumped and now they're somehow douchebags. Very grade school.

Leon is hated because of his ridiculous salary demands at the time and in essence, forced his way out of town. A lot of people hated both Jones and Penny before they left (and Penny went to the enemy) so I don't buy that one either. The only one you have somewhat of a point on is Faneca.

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I don't buy this either. His "epically stupid" demands got him $1.7M. Why the hell shouldn't he try for all he could? He got almost $2M coming off an injury where most of you are stating that he will NEVER be a threat as an RB again. How much would he have been worth it he were? I haven't seen him bad mouthing the Jets. I wish him well. I'm happy we didn't pay him, but he seemed like a good guy. He took a gamble and it didn't pay off, but he bet on himself. I'm all for that.

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I don't buy this either. His "epically stupid" demands got him $1.7M. Why the hell shouldn't he try for all he could? He got almost $2M coming off an injury where most of you are stating that he will NEVER be a threat as an RB again. How much would he have been worth it he were? I haven't seen him bad mouthing the Jets. I wish him well. I'm happy we didn't pay him, but he seemed like a good guy. He took a gamble and it didn't pay off, but he bet on himself. I'm all for that.

Uhm, if he had not gotten hurt his tender would have been $2.8 mil, so he gambled on $1 mil and lost. The Jets were offering him an extension in the $3 mil per range and he turned that down. So, yeah, when you're making tops $1.7 mil and you blow a chance at another $1 mil (60% of your salary) because you have a pipe dream of making $6 mil per, that's epically stupid.

When you're 28 playing the most injury prone position in the sport, it doesn't make sense to take such a gamble.

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Uhm, if he had not gotten hurt his tender would have been $2.8 mil, so he gambled on $1 mil and lost. The Jets were offering him an extension in the $3 mil per range and he turned that down. So, yeah, when you're making tops $1.7 mil and you blow a chance at another $1 mil (60% of your salary) because you have a pipe dream of making $6 mil per, that's epically stupid.

When you're 28 playing the most injury prone position in the sport, it doesn't make sense to take such a gamble.

If the contract they offered him was structured anything like D'Brick's (and his lovely bride says it was - minus any upfront cash), then it's probable that even if he signs that extension he never sees the money, anyway. By not signing, it worked out much better for the team, as they were able to get a draft pick for him.

I'm not going to judge the player based on rumors of what he was demanding, or what the Jets were offering. They're all rumors. I wish the guy well. He was a great Jet, but his time here was done.

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If the contract they offered him was structured anything like D'Brick's (and his lovely bride says it was - minus any upfront cash), then it's probable that even if he signs that extension he never sees the money, anyway. By not signing, it worked out much better for the team, as they were able to get a draft pick for him.

I'm not going to judge the player based on rumors of what he was demanding, or what the Jets were offering. They're all rumors. I wish the guy well. He was a great Jet, but his time here was done.

FYI, Slats, the contract the Jets offered Leon was not covered by the 30% rule or the choice between injury and skill guarantee. The Jets were allowed to give Leon a contract under the normal set of rules because it was a 2009 deal, not a 2010 deal.

So Leon would have gotten the full guarantee and if he got hurt & cut, he would have already gotten a signing bonus and would have been entitled to the future guaranteed money as well.

I wish Leon well, but he should be a cautionary tale.

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FYI, Slats, the contract the Jets offered Leon was not covered by the 30% rule or the choice between injury and skill guarantee. The Jets were allowed to give Leon a contract under the normal set of rules because it was a 2009 deal, not a 2010 deal.

So Leon would have gotten the full guarantee and if he got hurt & cut, he would have already gotten a signing bonus and would have been entitled to the future guaranteed money as well.

I wish Leon well, but he should be a cautionary tale.

At no time were any rumors floated that the Jets offered either a signing bonus or any guaranteed money. I think if the Jets made such offers, those would've been leaked as well.

His wife, love her or don't, has said the Jets offered nothing in bonus or guarantees. That he would've played under his existing deal, and the extension would've kicked in the following year. D'Brick's contract didn't have to be structured the way it it is because of the 2010 rules, with some guarantees kicking in next year, and some after that. They did that for their own reasons. It should not be a big leap to assume that the Jets would've structured a backup RB's contract in a similar way.

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At no time were any rumors floated that the Jets offered either a signing bonus or any guaranteed money. I think if the Jets made such offers, those would've been leaked as well.

His wife, love her or don't, has said the Jets offered nothing in bonus or guarantees. That he would've played under his existing deal, and the extension would've kicked in the following year. D'Brick's contract didn't have to be structured the way it it is because of the 2010 rules, with some guarantees kicking in next year, and some after that. They did that for their own reasons. It should not be a big leap to assume that the Jets would've structured a backup RB's contract in a similar way.

Slats, I don't believe anything his wife says. She thinks it's all god's plan.

Anyway, most contract extensions kick in the following year if the player is still under contract that year, even under the regular cap rules.

And it's hard to believe that there would ever be a contract offer under the old rules (which Leon's extension was covered by) that didn't have guaranteed money. Plus THERE WERE leaks of the contract offer having $10 million in guaranteed money.

Finally, Mangold's contract is structure just like DBrick's, so I don't know why you keep on harping about D'Brick's deal.

Edited by SMC
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Slats, I don't believe anything his wife says. She thinks it's all god's plan.

Anyway, most contract extensions kick in the following year if the player is still under contract that year, even under the regular cap rules.

And it's hard to believe that there would ever be a contract offer under the old rules (which Leon's extension was covered by) that didn't have guaranteed money. Plus THERE WERE leaks of the contract offer having $10 million in guaranteed money.

Finally, Mangold's contract is structure just like DBrick's, so I don't know why you keep on harping about D'Brick's deal.

Bricks deal did not have to be structured the way it was because of any outside influences. He got a lousy $1.6M bonus, with no future guarantees kicking in until after the season. His contract (and Mangold's, although he got a better bonus) did not have to be structured the way they were with those guarantees put off into the future (demonstrated by Revis' deal, as he got himself an additional $13M in fully guaranteed money despite the either/or rules). That was the Jets doing. So, to me, there's no reason to assume the Jets wouldn't've done the exact same thing with a backup RB the year before.

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The only thing our ground game is missing is that quick, change of pace back. I have no idea if McNightmare will ever grow into that position. What I am sure of is that Leon is incapable of being that guy any more. So far as leadership is concerned, we have plenty of vets and character guys in the locker room. Leon, being greedy and too $%#!ing stupid to take what the Jets put on the table, hardly qualifies in that role. I predict he will not be in the league by the start of the next season. He is as done as done gets.

Edited by Mistalava
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Uhm, if he had not gotten hurt his tender would have been $2.8 mil, so he gambled on $1 mil and lost. The Jets were offering him an extension in the $3 mil per range and he turned that down. So, yeah, when you're making tops $1.7 mil and you blow a chance at another $1 mil (60% of your salary) because you have a pipe dream of making $6 mil per, that's epically stupid.

When you're 28 playing the most injury prone position in the sport, it doesn't make sense to take such a gamble.

Fine, but why do you care if he was stupid? He gambled on himself. If he put up a Michael Turner year he'd have cashed in. For the players there isn't much sense in football. To make it to the NFL requires a ton of insanity. The guy's worst case was $1.7M. You think it was stupid, but he got more than half of the alleged offer AND the tender and nobody even knew if he could run yet. Maybe he couldn't get $6M per, but I'd think he'd have a decent shot at $4M+. We have no idea about the guarantees in any offer and there is some question as to any offer at all.

I'm not saying the guy made a smart business decision, but I see no reason to deride him when his fallback is $1.7M. The gamble may not have been a good one, but this wasn't hitting on 20 in blackjack, it was like Buster Douglas betting on himself to beat Tyson (and losing). Okay, maybe like McNeely betting on himself vs. Tyson.

Edited by #27TheDominator
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Fine, but why do you care if he was stupid? He gambled on himself. If he put up a Michael Turner year he'd have cashed in. For the players there isn't much sense in football. To make it to the NFL requires a ton of insanity. The guy's worst case was $1.7M. You think it was stupid, but he got more than half of the alleged offer AND the tender and nobody even knew if he could run yet. Maybe he couldn't get $6M per, but I'd think he'd have a decent shot at $4M+. We have no idea about the guarantees in any offer and there is some question as to any offer at all.

I'm not saying the guy made a smart business decision, but I see no reason to deride him when his fallback is $1.7M.

Deride him because that $1.7 mil "fallback" is the most money per year he'll ever see from now on. You think Leon is getting a long term contract anywhere close to paying him $1.7 mil a year as a 29 yr old kick returner? Leon will be lucky to get a deal above league minimum now.

When the reward is wholly unrealistic ($6 mil per) and the risk itself great (what he's experiencing now) and the probability high, it's a stupid choice. Plus, you say, "if he put up a Michael Turner year he'd have cashed in," but how was that even possible in 2009? Leon had Thomas Jones and rookie Shone Greene on the team. There was no way he was going to put up huge numbers on that depth chart.

And I'm just calling stupid, stupid. It doesn't matter to me. He made a reckless gamble and lost big time. Just like the guy who tried to blead his propane tank in his attached garage and blew up his house.

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Oh, and to be clear: Yes, Team Leon refuted the $10 mil guaranteed offer story but they only did so close to a year after it was reported.

In other words, the $10 mil guaranteed offer was reported by the Daily News and elsewhere in mid 2009 and Team Leon didn't say anything about it. Leon gets hurt in October and don't say anything about it. It is only in March 2010 after Leon is tendered at a 2nd rounder and everything has blown up in their collective faces, does Team Leon refute the story.

That is classic save-face manuevring right there IMO. How do you let a false story stay around for nearly a year about contract offer? Alvin Keels wanted that $10 mil story out there because he wanted more than that.

Edited by SMC
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Deride him because that $1.7 mil "fallback" is the most money per year he'll ever see from now on. You think Leon is getting a long term contract anywhere close to paying him $1.7 mil a year as a 29 yr old kick returner? Leon will be lucky to get a deal above league minimum now.

When the reward is wholly unrealistic ($6 mil per) and the risk itself great (what he's experiencing now) and the probability high, it's a stupid choice. Plus, you say, "if he put up a Michael Turner year he'd have cashed in," but how was that even possible in 2009? Leon had Thomas Jones and rookie Shone Greene on the team. There was no way he was going to put up huge numbers on that depth chart.

And I'm just calling stupid, stupid. It doesn't matter to me. He made a reckless gamble and lost big time. Just like the guy who tried to blead his propane tank in his attached garage and blew up his house.

As I said, I don't care about the intelligence of his contract choices. People said the same about Larry Johnson and the guy got him money. Does that mean it was a good gamble? NO, but it's not unheard of. IF he didn't get hurt he'd have gotten paid and probably more guaranteed. I just don't care about the choice. The only thing that bothered me during any of these contract disputes was Revis slacking and that wasn't a big deal. As long as he played hard I'm fine with him. I root for plenty of stupid players.

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