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So you are telling me you if given the choice of taking LT and everything he has done for us this season and tossing him and that production out the window for Leon, than you think that would be the right move? Because Mcknight is not Leon's replacement, LT is.

LT has made plays that Leon just does not have the ability to make, even before he was hurt. I don't know how anyone could not be ecstatic about LT and what he has done for this team, I certainly can't understand how picking him over Leon was such a bad move.

lol.. did i say that?? really? cmon.. i would understand if i had said thati dont like LT etc... if you read my posts.. i have said how much i like LT and how happy i am... please dont put words in my mouth..

Leon vs McKnight is a totally different story.

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LEON just broke another wom for 99yds.. eat that BITCHES!!!

A third down back (which Leon effectively was) / kick returner that gives you two TD's in :10 seconds is worth it. And nobody can convince anybody that Leon is not as effective as a third down back an

that was awesome! he is such a great guy.. and it is true, if he wasnt such a Mensch ...i probably wouldnt be cheering for him like i do!

We all agreed last year that we wouldn't have gotten where we did without him. Instead of looking at positions and using some generic scale, look at what he does on the field.

I must've missed that meeting.

On the field, Leon was not all that impressive for the Jets before he got hurt. I don't recall him putting in any game winning performances.

We traded Leon for McKnight STRAIGHT UP! The plan was he would be a Leon Washington player, the plan failed. I would have had no problem paying him this season what he was due, he HAD to play for us to prove he still could and in a season wehre we're looking to win it all he would be a great addtion to Greene/LT and would have obvious impact in the return game, even though I do like Smith.

No, we traded Leon for John Conner straight up.

I'm sure the plan is for McKnight to be a Washington-like player, but I think it's a little early to say that plan failed. He showed some promise in the preseason, he just also fumbled the ball. He could get his act together and still contribute as early as this year.

In the meantime, LaDainian Tomlinson and Brad Smith are adequately doing everything Leon could do and more.

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Leon's great.

But what properly managed team wants to win with kickoff returns? Those are gravy points, and if you're a good steward of your cap, you can't put your Revis money on a return man. I wish him the best.

Edited by JerryK
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holy moses! is that suppose to be me??? I had no idea candy corn was infused with steroids! OY! :)

That's the designated team Mom, made and named in your honor, it's currently being sported by that loser troll NurseShark.

I don't think she got that way off candy corn. ;)

Edited by The Brooklyn Jet
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lol.. did i say that?? really? cmon.. i would understand if i had said thati dont like LT etc... if you read my posts.. i have said how much i like LT and how happy i am... please dont put words in my mouth..

Leon vs McKnight is a totally different story.

But that is the thing, Mcknight is really not Washington's replacement, LT is. If you want to look at it as players replacing players, Green is taking TJ's place as the between the tackles runner and LT is taking Leon's place as the quick pass catching back. Mcknight is a 3rd round pick rookie tat may or may not take LT's place at some point down the road. But if we kept and paid Leon what he wanted, there is no way we get LT BUT we probably would have drafted Mcknight anyway.

That is why i am taking your comment that trading Leon was a bad move to task. Has nothing to do with mcknight, i don't understand why people are crowning him as Leon's replacement when he isn't even seeing the field.

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But that is the thing, Mcknight is really not Washington's replacement, LT is. If you want to look at it as players replacing players, Green is taking TJ's place as the between the tackles runner and LT is taking Leon's place as the quick pass catching back. Mcknight is a 3rd round pick rookie tat may or may not take LT's place at some point down the road. But if we kept and paid Leon what he wanted, there is no way we get LT BUT we probably would have drafted Mcknight anyway.

That is why i am taking your comment that trading Leon was a bad move to task. Has nothing to do with mcknight, i don't understand why people are crowning him as Leon's replacement when he isn't even seeing the field.

I don't know that McKnight has NOTHING to do with trading Leon. We didn't pull the trigger to trade Leon until McKnight was drafted already and that's way too much of a coincidence to just be coincidence.

Long-term, the team clearly figured McKnight to replace Leon. Short-term, LT is replacing Leon on offense and Brad Smith is replacing him on KOR's.

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But that is the thing, Mcknight is really not Washington's replacement, LT is. If you want to look at it as players replacing players, Green is taking TJ's place as the between the tackles runner and LT is taking Leon's place as the quick pass catching back. Mcknight is a 3rd round pick rookie tat may or may not take LT's place at some point down the road. But if we kept and paid Leon what he wanted, there is no way we get LT BUT we probably would have drafted Mcknight anyway.

That is why i am taking your comment that trading Leon was a bad move to task. Has nothing to do with mcknight, i don't understand why people are crowning him as Leon's replacement when he isn't even seeing the field.

Last year we had 3 RB's (until LEON got hurt)

TJ was #1

Shonn was #2

Leon was #3

if you believe this scenario... then LT has not taken LEON's place.. they are similar in their skill set.. but LT doesnt return kickoffs which was a another huge part of LEON's appeal.. he was the most important player on special teams beyond the kicker.

YOu have every right to take my comments to task.. BUT please dont assume things that i have never said. Just because i love Leon does not mean i hate LT.

By the way, before you say something, i think Brad SMith ( who i also love) has done a solid job as our kick returner. :)

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I don't know that McKnight has NOTHING to do with trading Leon. We didn't pull the trigger to trade Leon until McKnight was drafted already and that's way too much of a coincidence to just be coincidence.

Long-term, the team clearly figured McKnight to replace Leon. Short-term, LT is replacing Leon on offense and Brad Smith is replacing him on KOR's.

LOL! who thought you and i would be on the same page.. ;) i didnt see your response before i typed mine. OY! :)

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Last year we had 3 RB's (until LEON got hurt)

TJ was #1

Shonn was #2

Leon was #3

if you believe this scenario... then LT has not taken LEON's place.. they are similar in their skill set.. but LT doesnt return kickoffs which was a another huge part of LEON's appeal.. he was the most important player on special teams beyond the kicker.

YOu have every right to take my comments to task.. BUT please dont assume things that i have never said. Just because i love Leon does not mean i hate LT.

By the way, before you say something, i think Brad SMith ( who i also love) has done a solid job as our kick returner. :)

Except that no one believes this scenario because it didn't exist.

Leon was the clear #2 until he got hurt. At the time Leon went down, he was averaging 12 carries per game to TJ's 16. He was a lot closer to #1A than he was to being #3.

Until Leon got hurt, Greene was averaging 1 carry per game (6 carries in the first 6 games).

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Except that no one believes this scenario because it didn't exist.

Leon was the clear #2 until he got hurt. At the time Leon went down, he was averaging 12 carries per game to TJ's 16. He was a lot closer to #1A than he was to being #3.

Until Leon got hurt, Greene was averaging 1 carry per game (6 carries in the first 6 games).

then my bad... :lol: i really thought the Jets were looking at Shonn as the heir-apparent..

i just looked at the stats and i was wrong..

of course, i am old.. so i have that memory excuse :)

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LOL! who thought you and i would be on the same page.. ;) i didnt see your response before i typed mine. OY! :)

I'm not on anyone's side.

It's ridiculous to say drafting McKnight had nothing to do with trading Leon.

It's also equally ridiculous to say McKnight is taking Leon's place.

Clearly LT is taking his place on offense (and then some) and Smith on KR's. But as a 3rd-down back / KR / PR, I think it's obvious this is what the organization was looking for when drafting McKnight. The thing that muddies what was going through their minds is this: go back in time. What was expected of LT's quickness and ability coming off those last 2 seasons in SD? His silencing those pre-season critics with outstanding play masks the team's (then-warranted) likely uneasiness somewhat. If they knew what LT would be this year, the team may very well have drafted McKnight but only if he fell to them. Or just as likely, they wouldn't have drafted him at all and instead picked up a 3rd string RB in round 6 or from the UDFA pile like most teams do.

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Except that no one believes this scenario because it didn't exist.

Leon was the clear #2 until he got hurt. At the time Leon went down, he was averaging 12 carries per game to TJ's 16. He was a lot closer to #1A than he was to being #3.

Until Leon got hurt, Greene was averaging 1 carry per game (6 carries in the first 6 games).

This.

And really, this is when I soured on Leon. He was not impressive in his expanded role, when he was really working for that new contract. He wasn't doing anything special on offense, and he wasn't effective as a KOR, either.

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This.

And really, this is when I soured on Leon. He was not impressive in his expanded role, when he was really working for that new contract. He wasn't doing anything special on offense, and he wasn't effective as a KOR, either.

ok so i am looking up stats now.. see what you have all done to me.. OY!

anyway.. before LEON got hurt, last year he was averaging 4.6 yards/carry

TJ averaged 4.2 yards/carry

i am not sure how that is not doing anything on offense

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ok so i am looking up stats now.. see what you have all done to me.. OY!

anyway.. before LEON got hurt, last year he was averaging 4.6 yards/carry

TJ averaged 4.2 yards/carry

i am not sure how that is not doing anything on offense

6 games.

1 of them he got 17 yards on 4 carries so exclude that from any "average for the game" discussion.

5 games with meaningful carries averaged 4.0, 4.1, 3.8, 4.1, 6.6.

4 games under 4.2 and 1 game against Buffalo averaged 6.6 (same game Jones averaged almost 10).

He did not go 4.6 yards on an average carry all season long. 80% of the games he was below that. 20% of the time - one game against a defense dominated by our OL - he was above that. The one game at 6.6 doesn't help us out in the other 5 games he didn't reach his "average" carry length.

Getting 12 carries per game Leon simply wasn't the playmaker he was in years past.

Then he had that horrible injury.

Then Greene came to life.

Then we swapped Jones for LT.

Then we drafted McKnight (bust that he is).

Leon wasn't yet running, over 6 months after he broke his leg.

No future contract agreement in sight; he was at most a 1-year rental for 2010.

Jets negotiating with Revis and Mangold and Ferguson.

Richardson is 1000 years old in RB years.

Getting 12 carries per game Leon simply wasn't the playmaker he was in years past. Then he had that horrible injury.

We all loved Leon when he was here. And it's still perfectly understandable to trade Leon for a pick to use on Conner.

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ok so i am looking up stats now.. see what you have all done to me.. OY!

anyway.. before LEON got hurt, last year he was averaging 4.6 yards/carry

TJ averaged 4.2 yards/carry

i am not sure how that is not doing anything on offense

Didn't say he did nothing, just that he wasn't impressive in his expanded role in a contract year, when the urgency really should've been there. He averaged 5.9 ypc the year before. Don't forget that Thomas Jones hit the wall, too. I don't know how to look it up, but I believe that TJ had a better average at the time of Leon's injury. At worst, it was close. I know it was Jones who breaking off the long runs, not Leon.

Three other KOR's had better averages for the Jets than he did last year, too.

And on offense in Seattle this year, he's averaging only 2.9 ypc.

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Leon was just on ESPN first take, it was good seeing him again, and I'm very happy for him.

He is a great guy and teammate, a family man and he shows allot of class.

I wish only the best for him, keep it up Leon!

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Leon was just on ESPN first take, it was good seeing him again, and I'm very happy for him.

He is a great guy and teammate, a family man and he shows allot of class.

I wish only the best for him, keep it up Leon!

he was awesome! you could just tell what a humble good guy he is.. hwo cute that his 4yr. old brought in a clipping for show and tell

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he was awesome! you could just tell what a humble good guy he is.. hwo cute that his 4yr. old brought in a clipping for show and tell

Yes, hearing Leon tell that and seeing the smile on his face brought tears to my eyes.

They definitely have allot to be proud of, and I'm proud of them too!

I also like how Golden Tate tweeted how he wants to be like Leon when he grows up, he even ties his shoes the same. :)

Edited by The Brooklyn Jet
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6 games.

1 of them he got 17 yards on 4 carries so exclude that from any "average for the game" discussion.

5 games with meaningful carries averaged 4.0, 4.1, 3.8, 4.1, 6.6.

4 games under 4.2 and 1 game against Buffalo averaged 6.6 (same game Jones averaged almost 10).

He did not go 4.6 yards on an average carry all season long. 80% of the games he was below that. 20% of the time - one game against a defense dominated by our OL - he was above that. The one game at 6.6 doesn't help us out in the other 5 games he didn't reach his "average" carry length.

Getting 12 carries per game Leon simply wasn't the playmaker he was in years past.

Then he had that horrible injury.

Then Greene came to life.

Then we swapped Jones for LT.

Then we drafted McKnight (bust that he is).

Leon wasn't yet running, over 6 months after he broke his leg.

No future contract agreement in sight; he was at most a 1-year rental for 2010.

Jets negotiating with Revis and Mangold and Ferguson.

Richardson is 1000 years old in RB years.

Getting 12 carries per game Leon simply wasn't the playmaker he was in years past. Then he had that horrible injury.

We all loved Leon when he was here. And it's still perfectly understandable to trade Leon for a pick to use on Conner.

LOL! :) spremy.. we are never going to see eye to eye on this..

you are breaking down every run? discounting one game because he only had 4 runs.. cmon... i can find error in just about every player if we break stuff down to the minutia. really

i could go into the fact that i dont think schotty liked him as an RB, thus the lack of reps..

BUT lets just go back to the fact that we disagree... ;)

Dont get me started on Shonn though.. :) OY!

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Didn't say he did nothing, just that he wasn't impressive in his expanded role in a contract year, when the urgency really should've been there. He averaged 5.9 ypc the year before. Don't forget that Thomas Jones hit the wall, too. I don't know how to look it up, but I believe that TJ had a better average at the time of Leon's injury. At worst, it was close. I know it was Jones who breaking off the long runs, not Leon.

Three other KOR's had better averages for the Jets than he did last year, too.

And on offense in Seattle this year, he's averaging only 2.9 ypc.

how about those Fab Faux? ;)

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Yes, hearing Leon tell that and seeing the smile on his face brought tears to my eyes.

They definitely have allot to be proud of, and I'm proud of them too!

I also like how Golden Tate tweeted how he wants to be like Leon when he grows up, he even ties his shoes the same. :)

that was awesome! he is such a great guy..

and it is true, if he wasnt such a Mensch ...i probably wouldnt be cheering for him like i do!

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I'm not on anyone's side.

It's ridiculous to say drafting McKnight had nothing to do with trading Leon.

It's also equally ridiculous to say McKnight is taking Leon's place.

Clearly LT is taking his place on offense (and then some) and Smith on KR's. But as a 3rd-down back / KR / PR, I think it's obvious this is what the organization was looking for when drafting McKnight. The thing that muddies what was going through their minds is this: go back in time. What was expected of LT's quickness and ability coming off those last 2 seasons in SD? His silencing those pre-season critics with outstanding play masks the team's (then-warranted) likely uneasiness somewhat. If they knew what LT would be this year, the team may very well have drafted McKnight but only if he fell to them. Or just as likely, they wouldn't have drafted him at all and instead picked up a 3rd string RB in round 6 or from the UDFA pile like most teams do.

Well, i am not really talking about what their plans were at the time of the draft, i am talking about how it has played out thus far. Their intentions during the draft may have been one thing, but what has turned out is something else.

The OP i was referring to had just said that trading leon was a bad move. Now, had we not picked up LT and him having the season he is having and Mcknight sucking up the joint then ok, yeah, maybe not a great move (altough aside from KR has leon lit it up this season?).

My real point being yeah Mcknight thus far sucks, but had we signed and paid Leon what he wanted then we don't have LT and thus far I can't see leon as giving us the production LT has,and yeah, LT is old but he also doesn't have any erector set rods in his legs, which is nice. People saying we would be better off with Leon over Mcknight are missing a major part of the equation,

LT + Mcknight > Leon because LT + Leon would have never existed.

BTW gg, i hope you realize this isn't like, anything personal, just debating a post here, which is what this site is about, unless you would like me to go back to posting images, lol :D

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LOL! :) spremy.. we are never going to see eye to eye on this..

you are breaking down every run? discounting one game because he only had 4 runs.. cmon... i can find error in just about every player if we break stuff down to the minutia. really

i could go into the fact that i dont think schotty liked him as an RB, thus the lack of reps..

BUT lets just go back to the fact that we disagree... ;)

Dont get me started on Shonn though.. :) OY!

It wasn't a significant # of carries to weigh in on an average per carry. I'd have removed it if he carried 4x and got stuffed all 4 times. A game with 4 carries isn't a game you weigh as equally as a game where he has 15 carries.

If you knew anything about math you'd know that. How many standard deviations is a 4-carry game from an otherwise 13- to 14-carry game average?

But if you want to play it your way, 5 games under 4.3 ypc. One game 6.6 ypc when another Jets RB averaged 9.5 ypc on more carries. On any given gameday, is he likely to be

a) at his average 4.6 ypc

B) below his average 4.6 ypc

c) above his average 4.6 ypc

d) I can't concentrate on this because I'm secretly in love with the examiner

Please submit your apology in writing.

All of this is fun (for me) but in the end it's what one sees with one's own eyes. Leon used to be the guy who turned a busted play into a gain and a 4-yard window into a long TD. That was absent last year before the injury.

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All of this is fun (for me) but in the end it's what one sees with one's own eyes. Leon used to be the guy who turned a busted play into a gain and a 4-yard window into a long TD. That was absent last year before the injury.

This is what I saw as well.

Liked Leon, hope he parlays those two TD's into a nice payday for himself at the end of the year, but don't see any reason at all to fault the Jets for moving him. John Conner has the potential to be terminating here for a decade or more. That was a good move, even if Joe McKnight never pans out.

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It wasn't a significant # of carries to weigh in on an average per carry. I'd have removed it if he carried 4x and got stuffed all 4 times. A game with 4 carries isn't a game you weigh as equally as a game where he has 15 carries.

If you knew anything about math you'd know that. How many standard deviations is a 4-carry game from an otherwise 13- to 14-carry game average?

But if you want to play it your way, 5 games under 4.3 ypc. One game 6.6 ypc when another Jets RB averaged 9.5 ypc on more carries. On any given gameday, is he likely to be

a) at his average 4.6 ypc

B) below his average 4.6 ypc

c) above his average 4.6 ypc

d) I can't concentrate on this because I'm secretly in love with the examiner

Please submit your apology in writing.

All of this is fun (for me) but in the end it's what one sees with one's own eyes. Leon used to be the guy who turned a busted play into a gain and a 4-yard window into a long TD. That was absent last year before the injury.

you do know.. that just because you blab on a ton doesnt make you right... :)

i dont know anything about math... but if i did know something about math, i would know that you can manipulate numbers to suit your own beliefs.. ;)

of course .. your responses to me could be that you are crushing on me.. which of course would be most understandable..

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you do know.. that just because you blab on a ton doesnt make you right... :)

i dont know anything about math... but if i did know something about math, i would know that you can manipulate numbers to suit your own beliefs.. ;)

of course .. your responses to me could be that you are crushing on me.. which of course would be most understandable..

Leon was not likely to get a 4.6 yard gain on any given carry. He was likely to get less than that in 2009 except against the Bills, when his own teammate had 210 yards on 22 carries.

The point of weighing ypc is not to see how much one game can skew things. The point is to try to assess who is likely to get the most yards on a given carry. With Leon, one game brought his yearly ypc significantly above what he would likely get against any random opponent that year. In every game but that one, his game ypc was lower than his season average. In other words, that's only his average if over 1/5 of his carries come against the Bills in games where there is also dominant run-blocking, my love.

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