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If you had $25,000 to invest....


villain_the_foe

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Never heard of him.

wow, then you are in for a treat. He's on the radio 77 AM at 10:00 in the morning every Saturday. The guy is on top of economics and finance. He's one of the guys I turn to, to keep me grounded.

Never heard of him. I'll check him out though. I dont really watch TV unless its sundays. Im an internet guy. I'll look him up though.

A person that I really like to listen to because I feel that he "gets it" is Peter Schiff. I purchased 2 of his books ("crash proof 2.0" and "Bull moves in bear markets") and listened to many interviews and outside gold/silver, he really understand whats going on around the world.

Another guy is Jim Rogers.

I'm familiar with Schiff, I like him as well. I bing'd Jim Rogers and I think that guy has been a guest on Kudlow's show.

Edit: Your avatar is classic. My wife looks at me funny everytime that commercial comes on. Hilarious!

Geico and Capital One (whats in your wallet?) with the Vikings have great commercials. Awesome marketing team.

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By the way the Jets have covered the last 5 weeks, betting on this team this year is a fairly safe way to invest money.

as obsessed message board posters we are too close to see it but these guys are like 1985 bears level of good. friggin stacked like they haven't been ... ever... and probably won't be this stacked for another generation.

they have also gone over the last 5 games... and that's always fun to root for...

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If it was such a profitable venture why didn't private money step up to finance the bailout ?

this is a throw away comment but when Warren Buffett invests 10 billion in goldman sachs isn't that a bailout? When Chase decides it's the right time to buy Merrill... when Wells buys Wachovia... private money did invest where they wanted to... where they didn't (AIG, GM, Fannie/Freddie) the gov't stepped in.

even if it doesn't make a profit it was good for most that action was taken... bad for those with silver and guns in their basement but good for everyone else... the bailout started under 1 Prez and continued under another so this should not be a Dem/Rep partisan political issue. the government exists to serve many purposes and one of those purposes is to prevent economic collapse.

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this is a throw away comment but when Warren Buffett invests 10 billion in goldman sachs isn't that a bailout? When Chase decides it's the right time to buy Merrill... when Wells buys Wachovia... private money did invest where they wanted to... where they didn't (AIG, GM, Fannie/Freddie) the gov't stepped in.

even if it doesn't make a profit it was good for most that action was taken... bad for those with silver and guns in their basement but good for everyone else... the bailout started under 1 Prez and continued under another so this should not be a Dem/Rep partisan political issue. the government exists to serve many purposes and one of those purposes is to prevent economic collapse.

Yeah lets get behind Bush and Obama. Ever hear the saying same sh*t, different a$$hole?

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By the way the Jets have covered the last 5 weeks, betting on this team this year is a fairly safe way to invest money.

as obsessed message board posters we are too close to see it but these guys are like 1985 bears level of good. friggin stacked like they haven't been ... ever... and probably won't be this stacked for another generation.

they have also gone over the last 5 games... and that's always fun to root for...

When are you going to answer my questions that I asked? Or are you just going to spew info but when questioned on it simply ignore it?

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gold doesn't have another 1500$ in it cause it's not that dire of a situation. There will be growth in the spring. metaphorically speaking.

Explain why Deflation would be a bigger concern than inflation.

You're just throwing stuff out there without explaining anything. Please explain yourself.

cause if prices dont go up, wages don't go up. No one wants to buy something that is going to be worth less 6 months from now. It's all predicated on growth and purchasing not the true value of money in the world. the gold standard has long since been abandoned and it's been good for economy not bad.

Something else always comes along. It might be space, it might be solar power... but there's always growth and there's always edge to be found. Gold is a fair defensive play in hard times, I believe the worst is behind us.

ps- im serious about betting the Jets by the way. 25,000k if you gambled 1,000k on the Jets and the points every week for 16 weeks you'll win alot in 2010.

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I'm just curious, do you listen to Larry Kudlow on Saturday mornings? If not, you should check his show out, I think you would like it alot.

Kudlow is too neo-connish and still has his corporatist roots.

Jim Rogers/Marc Faber/Schiff/aka any Austrian Economist will prove to be right in the end.

My favorite economists are Tom Woods and Robert Murphy.

Right now people are raising funds that will get donated to a NYC Food bank if Paul Krugman will an accept an hour long debate over the business cycle with Robert Murphy. It's now up to $30,000. http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/campaign-0-1240

Here is a link to a bunch of Murphy's articles. http://mises.org/articles.aspx?AuthorId=380

Here is a link to a bunch of Wood's articles. http://mises.org/articles.aspx?AuthorId=424

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gold doesn't have another 1500$ in it cause it's not that dire of a situation. There will be growth in the spring. metaphorically speaking.

cause if prices dont go up, wages don't go up. No one wants to buy something that is going to be worth less 6 months from now. It's all predicated on growth and purchasing not the true value of money in the world. the gold standard has long since been abandoned and it's been good for economy not bad.

Something else always comes along. It might be space, it might be solar power... but there's always growth and there's always edge to be found. Gold is a fair defensive play in hard times, I believe the worst is behind us.

ps- im serious about betting the Jets by the way. 25,000k if you gambled 1,000k on the Jets and the points every week for 16 weeks you'll win alot in 2010.

Thanks for answering my question.

Where will this "Growth" be coming from? You're playing a guessing game IMO. "It might be solar power, it might be space". However, the problem is that China mines about 95% of "Rare Earth Elements" (REE's) and they just cut exports to Japan (where the US gets their REE's from) and is looking to cut down another 30% next year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/business/global/19mineral.html

In order for us to explore space we'll need REE's. In order for us to live off of clean power we'll need REE's. Not to mention that we'll need time (and money...which we dont have) to allocate to these particular projects. So how are you expecting this "growth" to occur come spring?

This is what I would do. I'd prepare for the worst, hope for the best. You my friend seems to think that it "cant happen" here yet its getting worse every day, especially when you read the news from around the world.

Also, Russia and China has come to an agreement for Oil and Natural Gas and they havent decided on how payments will be paid but I can guarantee that it will not be in US dollars.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/09/20109271606848882.html

While the rest of the world (because lets face it...Asia is running things now) is preparing for a US dollar-less society, you're setting your life on the hopes that things will turn around come Spring 2011 while every "dire" indicator is going off all over the place if you just take your emotions out of the equation. Some feel keeping their wealth into Dollars and in US stock markets (Google for example) is great. As I said before, the masses will be running to Gold/Silver sooner than you think. You think you seen a bubble? You think Gold is expensive now? lol....

I think your point is a bad idea, but you, like I have every right to live with our mistakes.

Lastly, there's a difference between Deflation and De-inflation, which believe me the Fed isnt taking either route lol. Possible deflation passed us back in 08 when we had the opportunity for the markets to correct, when we didnt have foreclosure-gate and every major company shipped out overseas. Instead the Fed "just couldnt" mind their business. I'll be trying my best not to pay for their painfully obvious mistakes by hedging myself against the very dollar that you have blind trust in.

Its "fiat" Bitonti. No more, no less.

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smartphones for starters. everyone uses these dam things and they cost 500 bucks everytime ya drop it in the toilet.

Who's going to make these phones, and where? What factory? You think the 20% currently unemployed are all going to be making phones? Okay, lets go that route. Lets say that happens. My question to you is...all of the entry level positions that freshly college grads are expecting to fill. Where are they? How about Post Grad positions????

Let me show you how bad things are bro.

A Boston College Law Student asked the school for his money back given lack of employment opportunities! This is too ridiculous to make up lol.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/20/boston-college-law-studen_n_769364.html

This dude took out I believe $60,000 a year in loans for tuition so he can make cell phones for $15 an hour. Imagine if he would have purchased metals with that instead lol.

You know whats worse? You can NEVER bankrupt or default out of Student loans. They're on your report forever if you dont pay it.

Back to my point though, Dont be surprised if you see a crash in November.

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and when the Bush Tax cuts expire Jan 1, no one will be buying anything because it will cause the economy to collapse and unemployment will surge to never before seen levels.

Not to mention Mortgage adjustments for the new year as well. Think we've seen foreclosures????

I know im making it sound even worse...but I'd rather look at it for what it is then lie to myself or listen to the TV.

You know what kills me, people want their cake and eat it too. Entertain this thought for a sec. Imagine if during elections (which I dont vote) politicians running would say "Okay, in order for us to fix the economy we have to do some MAJOR cutbacks on spending". No, medicaid, no, public education, no to "any" govt funded program. Cut everything. Do you know how outraged this country would be. Yet we're so deep that in order for us to even have a chance at coming back we'd need some type of major turn similar to what I just stated.

Its like people dont see what time they're living in.

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Not to mention Mortgage adjustments for the new year as well. Think we've seen foreclosures????

I know im making it sound even worse...but I'd rather look at it for what it is then lie to myself or listen to the TV.

You know what kills me, people want their cake and eat it too. Entertain this thought for a sec. Imagine if during elections (which I dont vote) politicians running would say "Okay, in order for us to fix the economy we have to do some MAJOR cutbacks on spending". No, medicaid, no, public education, no to "any" govt funded program. Cut everything. Do you know how outraged this country would be. Yet we're so deep that in order for us to even have a chance at coming back we'd need some type of major turn similar to what I just stated.

Its like people dont see what time they're living in.

Thats what it will take to fix the economy, rapid downsizing and the elimination of the welfare state. But people have it beaten into their minds that the private sector can't run anything right and the government is great.

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Thats what it will take to fix the economy, rapid downsizing and the elimination of the welfare state. But people have it beaten into their minds that the private sector can't run anything right and the government is great.

We're on Jetnation having this conversation, yet the Fed doesnt get that printing money is going to further destroy???

There's no Face Palm available that I can find to match the stupidity for this right now lol.

Dude, Im telling you, I think this November/December is going to be historical.

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We're on Jetnation having this conversation, yet the Fed doesnt get that printing money is going to further destroy???

There's no Face Palm available that I can find to match the stupidity for this right now lol.

Dude, Im telling you, I think this November/December is going to be historical.

Buy 455 JN VIP Memberships with your $25,000

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We're on Jetnation having this conversation, yet the Fed doesnt get that printing money is going to further destroy???

There's no Face Palm available that I can find to match the stupidity for this right now lol.

Dude, Im telling you, I think this November/December is going to be historical.

The end of the U.S. economy as we know it is coming. Hopefully this economic collapse doesn't destroy the entire Country like it did the USSR. They got in so much debt after Afghanistan, combined with other problems, but massive debt and a rapidly falling currency helped bring that all down.

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The end of the U.S. economy as we know it is coming. Hopefully this economic collapse doesn't destroy the entire Country like it did the USSR. They got in so much debt after Afghanistan, combined with other problems, but massive debt and a rapidly falling currency helped bring that all down.

Im not worried, about the economy...thats the least of our problems. It will be a "hyper-inflated depression with unemployment".

I dont think thats ever happened before. Mind you, the Fed ( a private company that continues to inflate us to hell) and China owns our debts.

Think hard about what I just said

Gold and Silver is the money they respond to. And I'll bank on that than any other currency with these type of problems.

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here's 2 reasons from USA today why the market is rallying

•Impressive earnings. Despite a nearly 10% jobless rate, U.S. companies keep posting better-than-expected profits, bolstered by cost-cutting, job cuts, strong demand for their products abroad and rising worker productivity. Heading into the week, 83% of the 159 companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 index had posted earnings results that topped expectations, says Thomson Reuters. In a typical quarter, only 62% top forecasts.

•Fading double-dip fears. The economic data that are coming in have been better than expected, reducing investor fears of an economic relapse. Monday's reading on existing home sales, for example, beat forecasts

believe it or not there is growth. It's not all gloom and doom. they are profit taking in gold today.

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here's 2 reasons from USA today why the market is rallying

believe it or not there is growth. It's not all gloom and doom. they are profit taking in gold today.

I dont doubt if there's growth. But the question is is it sustainable "quality" growth? When your profits are bolstered by "cost-cutting Job cuts" then I dont see this as profitable for the country, but for the company. Take Ford motors for example. We bailed them out (that was the term used) now, they have very little jobs here but they have a massive production line in China and is currently the 4th highest provider of cars in china (which has over billion to sell to) which by the way they dont get taxed on because their offices are IN china.

So the report would come out that Ford (a US company) is making "better than expected" profits and their products abroad are rising worker productivity. And why wouldnt "worker productivity" rise when you have 1 person doing the work of what it took 2 people to do (cost cutting job cuts). The answer is right in front of your face.

Also, I cant take a report seriously when they use governtment "percentage padding" when if people really dig for accuracy then you would come to the conclusion that unemployment is really close to 20%.

I tell you what, I respect your opinion...and its nice to be able to go back and forth with a person without it turning into a shouting match. However, I simply think that you need to see it for yourself.

I would love to know the top 50 of those 160 companies. I would bet all my gold & silver (lol) that the majority of their product and money is being made abroad. And if thats the case then those companies can then avoid paying taxes on money made abroad since they have offices abroad that can handle those profits (Like Apple, Nike and Ford does), which through corporate taxing the US economy gets better. I dont see that happening at all. Of course they can cut prices abroad when they can have a product made for 50 cents in sweat shops and sell it for $50 over seas instead of $150 here in a declining US consumer market and then state that they made "better than expected profits" like Nike. whether its $50 or $150 Jordan sneakers, its still a profit when manufacturing them in sweat shops per-hour cost you 50 cents.

Like I said....you'll see. And when you finally see, just know that it simply wasnt a good guess of mine. I knew the fall was coming because the rich companies "in the know" began to leave the "Titanic" first...and refused to get back on. It aint hard to tell.

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I'm pretty sure we didn't bail Ford out. Despite what Harry Reid might say, they refused the bail out money.

Im sorry, they did reject the bailout money...but gained "political capital" through loans (which some of that money they did take). Same difference if you ask me. So though I never heard of Harry Reid, he's right.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm

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I'm pretty sure we didn't bail Ford out. Despite what Harry Reid might say, they refused the bail out money.

And another link with much more specific info.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703589404575417491742322262.html

By MATTHEW DOLAN

Ford Motor Co. is getting help from the U.S. and other governments around the world as it races to slash its debt and boost its credit rating—an ironic position for the only U.S. car maker that didn't receive a government bailout last year.

Ford Chief Executive Alan Mulally and Chief Financial Officer Lewis Booth are on a drive to get back the auto maker's investment-grade credit rating, which it lost in 2005. Their goal, said a person familiar with the situation, is to get to investment grade in 2012 or possibly by the end of 2011, which may not be a stretch given the $7.3 billion profit Ford has made since the beginning of last year.

A higher credit rating typically lowers a company's cost of borrowing money.

For more than a year, car buyers have flocked to Ford, with some saying they wanted to support the only Detroit car maker that didn't receive a government rescue. Ford's U.S. sales so far this year are up 22% over the same period last year, well outpacing General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC.

Ford increasingly has been able to pay back debt ahead of schedule in part by winning government loan guarantees that allow it to borrow funds more cheaply. It uses these government-backed loans to make investments in its operations, then uses its own cash to pay down its privately issued debt.

Ford officials say the company, like its competitors, looks for government assistance when appropriate. "If we can take advantage of attractive interest rates, we will," Ford spokesman Mark Truby said.

Ford's steep debt stems mainly from a decision in late 2006 to borrow $23.5 billion to fund its turnaround. While the move helped keep Ford out of bankruptcy, it left it with a debt burden for which it paid $318 in interest for each vehicle it produced in the second quarter.

Meanwhile, Ford's two Detroit rivals have relatively little debt thanks to their U.S.-funded reorganizations.

As of June 30, Ford's overall automotive debt totaled $25.8 billion, down from $32.6 billion at the end of the first quarter. Ford paid $951 million in interest on its debt in the year's first half.

Last week, as President Barack Obama toured a Ford plant in Chicago, the White House announced a $250 million loan guarantee from the U.S. Export-Import Bank to finance the export of Fords to Canada and Mexico.

In June, the U.K. government cleared a $572 million loan guarantee for Ford's $715 million European Investment Bank loan to build vehicles that are more fuel-efficient and pollute less.

In January, the European Investment Bank, the financing arm of the 27-member European Union, said it would provide $527.6 million to help it produce several models in Romania.

Meantime, Ford has been paying down other debt. In April it made a $3 billion pre-payment on a $7.5 billion revolving loan.

In June, it paid $3.8 billion in cash to the United Auto Workers Retiree Medical Benefits Trust. A large chunk of the payment for retired worker health-care benefits was paid ahead of schedule.

Ford said its total debt payment in the second quarter should yield annual interest savings of more than $470 million.

During the same time, the auto maker increased its debt to $1.8 billion by taking a loan from a U.S. Department of Energy program to improve the fuel economy of its cars and trucks. Ford was approved for $5.9 billion in Energy Department loans last year and expects to take on billions more in loans from the program in coming years.

Ford may now be seeing a backlash from some governments that are skeptical of the need to help a company that reported five straight quarters of profit. (I found that part funny. Kinda like what I've been talking to Bitonti about).

Missouri's legislature deliberated for weeks over a tax break that would be worth $100 million for Ford to keep vehicle production in the state before the measure passed last month.

Three weeks ago, the German government rejected a $263.7 million loan guarantee request by Ford through the EIB to improve a plant in Cologne due to Ford's improved performance.

"Virtually all of our competitors have received these EIB loans, so we believe strongly we are being disadvantaged through this decision," Ford of Europe spokesman John Gardiner said.

Ford received a boost Friday when Fitch Ratings gave two-notch upgrade to Ford and its wholly owned credit arm.

Fitch's ratings are three steps from investment-grade territory. On Aug. 2, Standard & Poor's Ratings Services raised its opinion on Ford to a step lower than Fitch's new rating

That sounds like a bailout to me.

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where are you goin to invest the money ?

You must have missed my response to you. I would put it in Silver & Gold, Mostly Silver. I would also put it into foreign stock markets because when you invest into foreign stocks you also are investing into their currency. Once I seen China boost up its interest rates it gave me the indication that they're trying to fix their currency problem that they've been having via inflation. The only thing is I teach myself most of this stuff and I havent really had the time to learn about the markets enough to put my money into it.

To answer your question though, I'd do gold and silver for the moment...and while doing so learn about the market, because there will come a time where you will have to move your money into something else thats undervalued and on the rise.

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You must have missed my response to you. I would put it in Silver & Gold, Mostly Silver. I would also put it into foreign stock markets because when you invest into foreign stocks you also are investing into their currency. Once I seen China boost up its interest rates it gave me the indication that they're trying to fix their currency problem that they've been having via inflation. The only thing is I teach myself most of this stuff and I havent really had the time to learn about the markets enough to put my money into it.

To answer your question though, I'd do gold and silver for the moment...and while doing so learn about the market, because there will come a time where you will have to move your money into something else thats undervalued and on the rise.

oh, I did, I turned off the notification thingy, it was driving me nuts

txs !

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Im sorry, they did reject the bailout money...but gained "political capital" through loans (which some of that money they did take). Same difference if you ask me. So though I never heard of Harry Reid, he's right.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm

This doesn't have much to do with your main point of gold vs. dollars, so I saw no reason to push it. I just figured that you pride yourself on being informed, so I thought you might like to know that Ford was not technically "bailed out".

The bailout may have helped Ford indirectly, but that link in no way indicates Ford received any bailout money. It was a proposal. Ford never accepted ANY money. They never took any money from US government bailout loans. I believe that they had a problem with the strings that were attached. They did ask for a line of credit, but it was never used and I'm not 100% sure it was offered. Some articles have indicated that they used Federal loan guarantees to get attractive interest rates from private creditors, but they haven't actually used the money. The biggest boost they received from the bailout was not being left alone in the US market. This would have meant that most suppliers would have left town and they'd have been screwed. Ford did receive money from the UK and European banks and various other programs (some US govt based regarding making fuel efficient or alternative fuel vehicles). Some of those loans were based on the foreign manufacturing you discuss.

Strange you never heard of Harry Reid, he's been in the Senate for over 20 years and is the majority leader. I assume that's a joke.

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This doesn't have much to do with your main point of gold vs. dollars, so I saw no reason to push it. I just figured that you pride yourself on being informed, so I thought you might like to know that Ford was not technically "bailed out".

The bailout may have helped Ford indirectly, but that link in no way indicates Ford received any bailout money. It was a proposal. Ford never accepted ANY money. They never took any money from US government loans. I believe that they had a problem with the strings that were attached. They did ask for a line of credit, but it was never used and I'm not 100% sure it was offered. Some articles have indicated that they used Federal loan guarantees to get attractive interest rates from private creditors, but they haven't actually used the money. The biggest boost they received from the bailout was not being left alone in the US market. This would have meant that most suppliers would have left town and they'd have been screwed. Ford did receive money from the UK and European banks and various other programs (some US govt based regarding making fuel efficient or alternative fuel vehicles). Some of those loans were based on the foreign manufacturing you discuss.

Strange you never heard of Harry Reid, he's been in the Senate for over 20 years and is the majority leader. I assume that's a joke.

It didnt have anything to do with gold vs. dollars directly. It had to do with the conversation that I was having with Bit though. Im glad that you showed that ford wasnt "technically" bailed out, however, they were "politically incorrectly" bailed out.

Look, thats neither here nor there. My point that you nor Bit get is this. Gold isnt high because its over bought. That would constitute a bubble. Its high because of the inflation that has seeped into the economy. This is why Gold isnt in a bubble. This also explains why the US Dollar index is sub 80pts and about to go sub 70pts. What would you call it???

You can talk technicals if you like, but while you knit-pick around technicals...the overall obvious is that ford was bailed out via govt funds. i'd rather inform myself on why Gold and silver is doing what its doing and not take some reporters word for it thats all.

Edit: It wasnt a joke. I never heard of Mr. Reid. And if I ever did it wasnt important enough for me to remember. You're dealing with a person that can care less about governments that lie every chance they get. For example, if someone would ask me "who's the president of the US" my answer would be JP Morgan/Goldman Sachs. I just know better.

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Gold isnt high because its over bought. That would constitute a bubble. Its high because of the inflation that has seeped into the economy.

what inflation? the only inflation that exists is predicted inflation... in reality prices are flat or decreasing.

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