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Randy Moss to the Vikes?


slats

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Meant the multiple 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders. They were specifically trading back to get multiple picks, I love that strategy, I just don't think they capitalized on it. These are serious question, not trying to be a douche, I don't pretend to be a Pats expert. To me, it looks like you only hit a few singles and doubles, but how many of these guys would describe as home runs?

Specifically, I'm contrasting the Pats approach the past 5 years to the Jets (trading up and getting the guy you want). Obviously, Gholston was a bust, but aside from that, I really like what the Jets have done.

OK, I misunderstood what you were saying.

Anyway, your home run, elite type players are usually found in the top 20 picks.

Multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks will generally get you a good, productive player. And that's what the Pats have done. These guys won't be Pro Bowl players, but they will contribute.

If you are going to miss on a draft pick, better to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder versus a top 10 overall pick.

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Who's...taken less? What?

And yes, it is a time of mediocrity. That tends to happen when you lose a few HOFers.

HOFers? I thought the Rats won all those SB's with 1 HOFer and a bunch of no names. At least that's what the fan base says now that you are again loaded with no names. The Rats had a bunch of no names that had possible HOF careers before being traded to the dregs of the NFL.

Brady took a home town discount and there were a few free agents that took less money, or wanted to play for the patriots over other teams. That scenario is not the case anymore.

As for Brady, there is a reason his deal was only 4 years <I believe it was 4 anyhow>. No matter how well he does, he is not getting another deal from the patriots if BB and Kraft still in charge. He'll be what, 37 then? Brady will either be traded or he will play out final year and then not be signed again.

It's the BB way.

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As for Brady, there is a reason his deal was only 4 years <I believe it was 4 anyhow>. No matter how well he does, he is not getting another deal from the patriots if BB and Kraft still in charge. He'll be what, 37 then? Brady will either be traded or he will play out final year and then not be signed again.

It's the BB way.

Good call here on Brady.

The Pats will definitely trade him in the final year of his contract.

No way the just let him go (FA route) and not get anything for him.

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HOFers? I thought the Rats won all those SB's with 1 HOFer and a bunch of no names. At least that's what the fan base says now that you are again loaded with no names. The Rats had a bunch of no names that had possible HOF careers before being traded to the dregs of the NFL.

Brady took a home town discount and there were a few free agents that took less money, or wanted to play for the patriots over other teams. That scenario is not the case anymore.

As for Brady, there is a reason his deal was only 4 years <I believe it was 4 anyhow>. No matter how well he does, he is not getting another deal from the patriots if BB and Kraft still in charge. He'll be what, 37 then? Brady will either be traded or he will play out final year and then not be signed again.

It's the BB way.

Yea...well there's been a bunch of ignorant things like that in this thread.

HOFers:

McGinnest

Seymour

Possilby Vrabel but he's probably closer to the Hall of Very Good

Brown

Harrison

And yes...Brady will probably go the route of many HOF type QBs and will be playing for someone else after this contract runs out. He won't be the first and it's not something the Patriots invented.

As far as FAs and discounts...The Pats in the 2000's rarely went after big money FAs in the first place...Colvin's really the only one I can think of off the top of my head...I'm not sure they care as long as they get who they want.

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As far as FAs and discounts...The Pats in the 2000's rarely went after big money FAs in the first place...Colvin's really the only one I can think of off the top of my head...I'm not sure they care as long as they get who they want.

Pats paid more for Adelius Thomas.

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Steve Young just had his take on ESPN...here were some things he said...

Tom Brady's job just got significantly harder today. Moss takes the top off the defense. Now the D can play tight, it basically shrink wraps. Who scares you? Wes Welker doesnt catch as many passes and Tom no longer has a deep threat that can change the game with one throw.

Basically everything I said all day long. :D

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Steve Young just had his take on ESPN...here were some things he said...

Tom Brady's job just got significantly harder today. Moss takes the top off the defense. Now the D can play tight, it basically shrink wraps. Who scares you? Wes Welker doesnt catch as many passes and Tom no longer has a deep threat that can change the game with one throw.

Basically everything I said all day long. :D

No kidding, but you act like the offense will be terrible whereas most are saying it will still be good. And it will, just not #1 in the league good

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No kidding, but you act like the offense will be terrible whereas most are saying it will still be good. And it will, just not #1 in the league good

Maybe TX can correct me here but during their dynasty years in always remembered their offense being a more "play to not lose the game" offense. Lots of short stuff, lots more running. Once they got a lead they were excellent at ball/clock control. Their D was great back then though. I see their O without Randy being more like it used to be. What's going to make the difference for them is for their D to not give up 20+ per game.

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Hey, what have I missed today? Freakin' work is getting out of control!

Anyway, this sure will put my theory to the test. I'm confident though. I really do think the offense will be fine. The defense? Not so much. :)

Definitely will. I think you should be careful what you wish for.

No kidding, but you act like the offense will be terrible whereas most are saying it will still be good. And it will, just not #1 in the league good

I honestly think they are going to struggle mightily for all those reasons. There is nobody that scares you and can open the field. All those players that have had the luxury of finding wide open space, are going to understand what its like to have 11 players on the field. Some of the guys have never had to feel what its like to have a safety roaming the middle of the field. Those little white boys are going to get lit up.

Its still Tom Brady and they will still move the ball, but they are not going to be the same at all. And I think good defensive teams are going to be tough to beat for the Patsies.

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Huh?

Seymour is about 50/50 (personally I'd give him the nod; he was really great once) and Harrison about a 20% chance or less There is zero chance for the other three. Zero.

If a cheating, dirty, roided up THUG like Rodney Harrison makes the hall of fame, the hall of fame is pretty much declaring itself a joke.

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Maybe TX can correct me here but during their dynasty years in always remembered their offense being a more "play to not lose the game" offense. Lots of short stuff, lots more running. Once they got a lead they were excellent at ball/clock control. Their D was great back then though. I see their O without Randy being more like it used to be. What's going to make the difference for them is for their D to not give up 20+ per game.

Very good points.

I would not say "play to not lose", but it did run the ball and was content on winning the field position battle in order to set-up the O for a short field or the D so the other team had to drive it.

The Patriots skill positions minus runningback are all better now. Wes and company are better then Troy and company. The TEs are 1000x better. TOm is better with the deep ball.

While Wes' job is harder, Hernandez and Tate can stretch the field. The Patriots are not as dynamic, but as the second half of the Jets game showed. When the O is forced to go through Randy it can die if he is shutdown. When it is spread-out, it is efficient.

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Maybe TX can correct me here but during their dynasty years in always remembered their offense being a more "play to not lose the game" offense. Lots of short stuff, lots more running. Once they got a lead they were excellent at ball/clock control. Their D was great back then though. I see their O without Randy being more like it used to be. What's going to make the difference for them is for their D to not give up 20+ per game.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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So, the #1 offense in the NFL loses 1 WR and suddenly they go to the bottom half of the NFL?

Seriously, how old are you?

No 1 offense my a$$. They are 10th in total offense WITH moss. Only a complete and utter retard would look at scoring offense after 4 games when the team has had 4 TD's on returns.. right? Oh wait it's you again.

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Maybe TX can correct me here but during their dynasty years in always remembered their offense being a more "play to not lose the game" offense. Lots of short stuff, lots more running. Once they got a lead they were excellent at ball/clock control. Their D was great back then though. I see their O without Randy being more like it used to be. What's going to make the difference for them is for their D to not give up 20+ per game.

I think they were very efficient, just not as explosive... ..see DVOA below which measures efficiency..

I honestly think they are going to struggle mightily for all those reasons. There is nobody that scares you and can open the field. All those players that have had the luxury of finding wide open space, are going to understand what its like to have 11 players on the field. Some of the guys have never had to feel what its like to have a safety roaming the middle of the field. Those little white boys are going to get lit up.

Its still Tom Brady and they will still move the ball, but they are not going to be the same at all. And I think good defensive teams are going to be tough to beat for the Patsies.

Deon branch, caldwell and those other losers weren't scarey either.. And remember Brady was still a neophyte till 2003

Pats rankings

year/pts/yards -- DVOA

2001/#6/#19 -- 11

2002/#10/#21 -- 12

2003/#12/#17 -- 14

2004/#4/#7 -- 3

2005/#10/#7 -- 7

2006/#7/#11 -- 5

avg/#8/#13 -- #8

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I think they were very efficient, just not as explosive... ..see below..

Deon branch, caldwell and those other losers weren't scarey either.. And remember Brady was still a neophyte till 2003

Pats rankings

year/pts/yards

2001/#6/#19

2002/#10/#21

2003/#12/#17

2004/#4/#7

2005/#10/#7

2006/#7/#11

avg/#8/#13

#8 in scoring and #13 in yards ain't gonna get it done when your defense sucks.

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I agree with those that say the offense will be similar to what we saw out of the early/mid 2000s Patriots, which wasn't all bad. The difference is back then those Patriots teams were built on a great defense and a great QB with mediocre offensive skill players. These past few years, the Patriots teams were built on a great offense run by a great QB with great skill players and a mediocre defense. Now, you're looking at a good offense with a mediocre defense. They'll still be a winning team, but it's going to be tough on them. However, I'm not sure Moss is a major difference for them when it's all said and done, as the Patriots are a team that needed improvements on D this season if they wanted to make noise in the postseason regardless of Moss being on the team.

The biggest difference is on Brady. In the old days his biggest strength was being nearly mistake-free and that's what helped the offense go even with the talent they had. These past few years, Brady's become more of a risk-taker because quite frankly, he could get away with it, having an offense that could potentially break a long one for a TD at any moment with a WR who could make big plays out of throws that may have been questionable going to any other receiver. It's very possible with this change, he might need to make a bit of a shift in his play to his older, more conservative style. Again, I'm not sure I see it being this major problem for them, because either way in the end the success or failures were going come down to the defense this season.

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#8 in scoring and #13 in yards ain't gonna get it done when your defense sucks.

No, it won't.. but I think you'll see production closer to 04-06 which would put them roughly around 7th in points, enough to go 7-5ish down the stretch

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No, it won't.. but I think you'll see production closer to 04-06 which would put them roughly around 7th in points, enough to go 7-5ish down the stretch

Jeez. People need to stop being mesmerized by the cult of Belichick. The talent level on that offense isn't CLOSE to being top 10 in the NFL.

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