Jump to content

Gholston will get his first sack in Denver


ZachEY

Recommended Posts

Nothing wrong with noting that the biggest bust in Jet history has shown absolutely no signs of improving.

actually there are several things wrong with that sentence. The biggest bust in Jets history isn't even close to being Gholston. Blair Thomas is a good candidate. Also he was not playing last year this year he's rotating, that's improvement. It's not 10 sacks a year improvement but his career is very similar to Bryan Thomas' right now... another guy who everyone in Jets land said sucked when he was in year 3... now he's been with the team 8 years and actually is very valuable... even if he isn't a 10 sack a year guy either.

And for the record Ive not heard a draft pick that makes more sense, in that context. Vernon Gholston and Drob both were part of relatively weak draft crops. the Jets could have drafted Derrick Harvey or Jonathan Sullivan instead... so who cares?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 126
  • Created
  • Last Reply

im tired of "so and so sucks" complaints after wins. We just won! Gholston sucks! wtf?

Perhaps a 'discussion forum' is not the right forum for you then.

Because if that's your complaint, there should be 1 thread.

The title should be 'We Won', and all responses should be 'yay'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually there are several things wrong with that sentence. The biggest bust in Jets history isn't even close to being Gholston. Blair Thomas is a good candidate. Also he was not playing last year this year he's rotating, that's improvement. It's not 10 sacks a year improvement but his career is very similar to Bryan Thomas' right now... another guy who everyone in Jets land said sucked when he was in year 3... now he's been with the team 8 years and actually is very valuable... even if he isn't a 10 sack a year guy either.

And for the record Ive not heard a draft pick that makes more sense, in that context. Vernon Gholston and Drob both were part of relatively weak draft crops. the Jets could have drafted Derrick Harvey or Jonathan Sullivan instead... so who cares?

There were 6 pro-bowlers drafted after Gholston.

I'd take any of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually there are several things wrong with that sentence. The biggest bust in Jets history isn't even close to being Gholston. Blair Thomas is a good candidate. Also he was not playing last year this year he's rotating, that's improvement. It's not 10 sacks a year improvement but his career is very similar to Bryan Thomas' right now... another guy who everyone in Jets land said sucked when he was in year 3... now he's been with the team 8 years and actually is very valuable... even if he isn't a 10 sack a year guy either.

And for the record Ive not heard a draft pick that makes more sense, in that context. Vernon Gholston and Drob both were part of relatively weak draft crops. the Jets could have drafted Derrick Harvey or Jonathan Sullivan instead... so who cares?

At least Blair Thomas played. Blair Thomas also had injury problems. In 1990 Blair Thomas led all rookies in yards per carry and all AFC rookies in total yardage. Gholston has three years in the league, not one sack and only 13 tackles in 32 appearances and 3 starts. That is a top five all-time bust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest bust in Jets history isn't even close to being Gholston. Blair Thomas is a good candidate.

Blair Thomas sucked, but he was significantly more productive than Vernon Gholston.

Lam Jones would be another candidate, but he actually did something on the field once or twice, too.

Dave Cadigan is close, but he also contributed more than Vernon.

I think you'd have to go all the way back to 1974, when the Jets took Carl Barzilauskas with the #6 pick in the draft to find a bigger bust than Gholston.

Gholston is definitely close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And for the record Ive not heard a draft pick that makes more sense, in that context. Vernon Gholston and Drob both were part of relatively weak draft crops. the Jets could have drafted Derrick Harvey or Jonathan Sullivan instead... so who cares?

I'd love to kill Tannenbaum for Gholston but (at least from the outside) he had to be the pick there. He was productive in college and his measurables were insane. Maybe a more seasoned personnel evaluator would have picked up on the fact that Vernon was a poontang-in-waiting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if Vernon Gholston sucked as bad as the posters in this thread believe... he'd be gone. He's already re-done his contract. The Jets have no good reason to keep such a terrible player on the roster... not only occupying a roster spot but also playing on Sundays.

the reason why Gholston plays is cause of Rex. He sees things no one else does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember Carl Barzilauskas.

Gholston could not carry his jock strap to the laundry for him.

Anyone who defends the Gholston pick is either:

Blind

Has alzheimers

Related to Vern

Never watched a NYJ game

Thinks football should be a non-contact sport

All of the above

FWIW, the other busts noted above were worthy of being late round draft picks.

Can the same be said about Vern?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if Vernon Gholston sucked as bad as the posters in this thread believe... he'd be gone. He's already re-done his contract. The Jets have no good reason to keep such a terrible player on the roster... not only occupying a roster spot but also playing on Sundays.

the reason why Gholston plays is cause of Rex. He sees things no one else does.

What does he do that we aren't seeing then? He has 13 tackles for his 2 and a half year career. Thats less than half a tackle a game for games he's been active in. He's a bust, I don't know why you can't just admit that he is nothing and he will never be anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does he do that we aren't seeing then? He has 13 tackles for his 2 and a half year career. Thats less than half a tackle a game for games he's been active in. He's a bust, I don't know why you can't just admit that he is nothing and he will never be anything.

Occupying blockers is an important job in the 3-4. And no it's not what they drafted him at 6 for... but he's not awful. He's stout at the point of attack, he sets the edge on rushing plays, and he has the physical tools to improve.

The Jets as a team don't get alot of sacks but they do get alot of pressure. Gholston has been a part of some good defenses (they went 3-1 with him starting last year) and he's a rotational part of a good defense right now. The team is not better by cutting him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Occupying blockers is an important job in the 3-4. And no it's not what they drafted him at 6 for... but he's not awful. He's stout at the point of attack, he sets the edge on rushing plays, and he has the physical tools to improve.

The Jets as a team don't get alot of sacks but they do get alot of pressure. Gholston has been a part of some good defenses (they went 3-1 with him starting last year) and he's a rotational part of a good defense right now. The team is not better by cutting him.

He can't make routine plays like sacking Brett Favre when he's right in front of you. The team could find someone better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to kill Tannenbaum for Gholston but (at least from the outside) he had to be the pick there. He was productive in college and his measurables were insane. Maybe a more seasoned personnel evaluator would have picked up on the fact that Vernon was a poontang-in-waiting.

Agree completely. I didn't know any better at the time. I thought he was a good pick. He wasn't.

if Vernon Gholston sucked as bad as the posters in this thread believe... he'd be gone. He's already re-done his contract. The Jets have no good reason to keep such a terrible player on the roster... not only occupying a roster spot but also playing on Sundays.

the reason why Gholston plays is cause of Rex. He sees things no one else does.

Bit, do you honestly believe he'll be with the team next year? Yes or no?

He's here right now for two reasons: He was a high pick, and the Jets are thin up front. If Jenkins and Pitoitua didn't get hurt, he'd be inactive every week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bit, do you honestly believe he'll be with the team next year? Yes or no?

He's here right now for two reasons: He was a high pick, and the Jets are thin up front. If Jenkins and Pitoitua didn't get hurt, he'd be inactive every week.

honestly yes. He doesn't have to live up to the internetz idea of what a #6 player should be. He just has to help the football team play defense.

And he's cheap now. They will draft someone but i believe Ellis is a free agent and unlikely to re-sign so they will need Gholston to do what he does.

And it might seem flukey but not getting hurt is an attribute as well. Durability and toughness are aspects to judge a player on... Kris Jenkins is an overall better player than Gholston but he's not as durable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree completely. I didn't know any better at the time. I thought he was a good pick. He wasn't.

Bit, do you honestly believe he'll be with the team next year? Yes or no?

He's here right now for two reasons: He was a high pick, and the Jets are thin up front. If Jenkins and Pitoitua didn't get hurt, he'd be inactive every week.

If Pitoitua didn't get hurt he may have not made it past final cuts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

honestly yes. He doesn't have to live up to the internetz idea of what a #6 player should be. He just has to help the football team play defense.

And he's cheap now. They will draft someone but i believe Ellis is a free agent and unlikely to re-sign so they will need Gholston to do what he does.

And it might seem flukey but not getting hurt is an attribute as well. Durability and toughness are aspects to judge a player on... Kris Jenkins is an overall better player than Gholston but he's not as durable.

Gholston isn't a fraction of the player Ellis is. Ellis is important in the pass rush. And I think they bring Ellis back next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Pitoitua didn't get hurt he may have not made it past final cuts.

pito was a lock for not only the roster but rotational playing time. Pettine said in Hard Knocks he was a JV player that was moving to be a varsity player. With that achillies, we might never know, but he was actually playing well in pre-season with at least 2 TFL i can recall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pito was a lock for not only the roster but rotational playing time. Pettine said in Hard Knocks he was a JV player that was moving to be a varsity player. With that achillies, we might never know, but he was actually playing well in pre-season with at least 2 TFL i can recall.

No I ment Gholston would not have made it past final cuts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gholston isn't a fraction of the player Ellis is. Ellis is important in the pass rush. And I think they bring Ellis back next year.

Ellis is 33 now, he's 35 if they lose a year to lockout... He asked for a contract this year and they said no. MeShaunda Ellis is a fantastic Jets player but this is not going to be an easy move to get him back in Green. It's far easier to let Gholston play out his cheap deal and draft someone in round 1 or 2. There's a ton of good DL this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ellis is 33 now, he's 35 if they lose a year to lockout... He asked for a contract this year and they said no. MeShaunda Ellis is a fantastic Jets player but this is not going to be an easy move to get him back in Green. It's far easier to let Gholston play out his cheap deal and draft someone in round 1 or 2. There's a ton of good DL this year.

Gholston can't do what Ellis can though. Ellis is a good pass rusher, Gholston has trouble even getting into the backfield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

honestly yes. He doesn't have to live up to the internetz idea of what a #6 player should be. He just has to help the football team play defense.

And he's cheap now. They will draft someone but i believe Ellis is a free agent and unlikely to re-sign so they will need Gholston to do what he does.

And it might seem flukey but not getting hurt is an attribute as well. Durability and toughness are aspects to judge a player on... Kris Jenkins is an overall better player than Gholston but he's not as durable.

He's got a $2.5M roster bonus coming in 2011. No way he ever sees that without a stunning turnaround on the field this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Occupying blockers is an important job in the 3-4. And no it's not what they drafted him at 6 for... but he's not awful. He's stout at the point of attack, he sets the edge on rushing plays, and he has the physical tools to improve.

The Jets as a team don't get alot of sacks but they do get alot of pressure. Gholston has been a part of some good defenses (they went 3-1 with him starting last year) and he's a rotational part of a good defense right now. The team is not better by cutting him.

Jeff Charleston was a SB Defensive End last year. Why didn't we make a move to get this guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff Charleston was a SB Defensive End last year. Why didn't we make a move to get this guy.

Whatever, I just cant believe I believed you. At the end of the game I was like, "wait, what? EY was wrong, Gholston didnt get a sack?"

Never again, never again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gholston is not hurting this team.

He's not helping a great deal but the coaches don't stay up all night wondering how to get Vernon Gholston to perform better.

if there is a single player to be worried about it's probably Sanchez and his ~50% completion percentage.

but let's not have that conversation. Let's dog-pile on the 2nd string DE on a top 10 defense.

Or let's just enjoy the team being 5-1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

but let's not have that conversation. Let's dog-pile on the 2nd string DE on a top 10 defense.

It's cute, how you conveniently ignore the fact that a guy taken #6 in the draft is a 2nd string DE in the first place. What makes it worse is that he isn't playing behind a future HoF'er, but a UDFA from Maine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gholston is not hurting this team.

He's not helping a great deal but the coaches don't stay up all night wondering how to get Vernon Gholston to perform better.

if there is a single player to be worried about it's probably Sanchez and his ~50% completion percentage.

but let's not have that conversation. Let's dog-pile on the 2nd string DE on a top 10 defense.

Or let's just enjoy the team being 5-1.

Sanchez isn't playing great, but he's been solid.

Remember that nice TD to Braylon over Champ Bailey? Well, even in a game where he played overall like crap, he still did more than Gholston in Gholston's entire career.

Do you dispute that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sanchez isn't playing great, but he's been solid.

Remember that nice TD to Braylon over Champ Bailey? Well, even in a game where he played overall like crap, he still did more than Gholston in Gholston's entire career.

Do you dispute that?

no but it cuts both ways. Mark Sanchez has done more to hurt the team's chances of winning then Gholston too. VG is not great but he's not a problem either. he's neutral.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no but it cuts both ways. Mark Sanchez has done more to hurt the team's chances of winning then Gholston too. VG is not great but he's not a problem either. he's neutral.

That's absolutely true. It's also a blatant distortion of the realities of the situation to make a unimpressive point.

The team gets to play one QB, that QB, Sanchez, matters more than any player on the team. Sanchez touches the ball on every offensive play (save Brad Smith plays), so the whole team revolves around his play.

On the other hand, the only reason, to adopt your term, that Gholston is a 'neutral', is because he's not good enough to be allowed to make mistakes. Gholston isn't out there making the same level of mistakes Sanchez does is because, 1, he's doesn't play QB, and 2, we've brought in, and started plenty of players ahead of him. Put another way, the #6 overall pick, 3 years ago, is not important enough to matter. For some of us, not concerned with our reputation for evaluating draft prospects... That matters, and that is a 'problem'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For some of us, not concerned with our reputation for evaluating draft prospects... That matters, and that is a 'problem'.

You are Mike tannenbaum. The year is 2008. You are on the clock with the Jets pick. No one wants to trade up for that spot. Who do you take?

Even with 3 years of hindsight there's no answer that makes more sense than Gholston. Unless we want to convince ourselves that Chris Johnson (28 overall) was a realistic possibility.

some drafts are weaker than others. If Vernon Gholston was in last year's draft he might not be a first rounder.

for the record I still believe this player has some value. Hugh Douglas said in an interview it took him 5 years to learn how to play DE. It took Vrabel 7 years before he was productive. Young players get better, it happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are Mike tannenbaum. The year is 2008. You are on the clock with the Jets pick. No one wants to trade up for that spot. Who do you take?

Even with 3 years of hindsight there's no answer that makes more sense than Gholston. Unless we want to convince ourselves that Chris Johnson (28 overall) was a realistic possibility.

some drafts are weaker than others. If Vernon Gholston was in last year's draft he might not be a first rounder.

for the record I still believe this player has some value. Hugh Douglas said in an interview it took him 5 years to learn how to play DE. It took Vrabel 7 years before he was productive. Young players get better, it happens.

I agree with this. At the time I don’t think the Jets had a choice in selecting Gholston. He had boom or bust written all aver him. Sadly for the Jets he turned out to be a major bust.

This guy will never be a Good player. Nothing more then you would expect from a 6th rounder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are Mike tannenbaum. The year is 2008. You are on the clock with the Jets pick. No one wants to trade up for that spot. Who do you take?

Keith Rivers or Jerod Mayo as an upgrade over Eric Barton or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, since we didn't have a clear, good #2 CB until we got Antonio Cromartie this year. Cromartie may have been a bit of a reach at 6 since he went at 16, but he would have filled an important need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, since we didn't have a clear, good #2 CB until we got Antonio Cromartie this year. Cromartie may have been a bit of a reach at 6 since he went at 16, but he would have filled an important need.

If the Jets had drafted DRC at #6, it's almost a lock that Revis wouldn't have waited until 2010 to stage holdout #2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are Mike tannenbaum. The year is 2008. You are on the clock with the Jets pick. No one wants to trade up for that spot. Who do you take?

Even with 3 years of hindsight there's no answer that makes more sense than Gholston. Unless we want to convince ourselves that Chris Johnson (28 overall) was a realistic possibility.

some drafts are weaker than others. If Vernon Gholston was in last year's draft he might not be a first rounder.

for the record I still believe this player has some value. Hugh Douglas said in an interview it took him 5 years to learn how to play DE. It took Vrabel 7 years before he was productive. Young players get better, it happens.

Jerod Mayo

Dominique Rodgers Cromartie

Joe Flacco

Chris Johnson

Mike Jenkins

Kenny Phillips

DeSean Jackson

Ray Rice

I would rather have any of these players on the team then Gholston.

We've been through this dance before, now you'll tell me why we can't pick any of those players at 6, when the reality is, the question that needs to be asked is, 'how could we pick Vernon Gholston at 6'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...