James Harrison excused from practice, contemplating retirement

[JustInFudge]

Thanks for the insight, aec4.

Whatever, **** you. Sorry that while you were putting together Cisco networks in your momma's basement, I was out playing sports.

Dick.

[dbatesman]

Defenders can light up another player all they want

Wrong. Eliminating headshots is fine; the crux of the problem is that the NFL has made safety such a point of emphasis that officials are flagging any big hit, legal or illegal, as a matter of course.

And in this case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmsAdwm7LHQ

...the NFL supported a completely incorrect call to the tune of $50,000.

[DireJet38]

I thought we got past this...its not just about players leading with their helmet. Its also about players launching to hit and block. Which Connor does, hell, Rex played it over and over again on hard knocks. There is a defenseless guy running through the Carolina's punt coverage and Connor leaves his feet to spin the guy like a helicopter. Dude it was premeditated. Westy talked about it before the game and then Connor went in their and like Rex said, "killed the guy".

Its not just helmet spearing anymore, thats where this has all gone wrong. Not to mention the double standard for offensive players.

It is based on protecting a player in a defenseless position.

The scenarios you alluding to don't leave the victim defenseless.

[JustInFudge]

I'm glad somebody said it, and that somebody wasn't me.

And **** you too. Its not like I said, listen to me, I played High School Football. I'm just trying to relate to my playing days and how it was bang bang and sometimes everything you are taught goes out the window to make a play.

You were probably joining Hector in his basement, but I take you as more like CTM. You were probably working on your C++ programming in High School while I was playing sports and banging cheerleaders.

Dick.

[JohnnyHector]

Whatever, **** you. Sorry that while you were putting together Cisco networks in your momma's basement, I was out playing sports.

Dick.

Please, tell us the story again about the time you scored 4 TD"s in a game against Andrew Johnson High School.

[Klecko73isGod]

I thought we got past this...its not just about players leading with their helmet. Its also about players launching to hit and block. Which Connor does, hell, Rex played it over and over again on hard knocks. There is a defenseless guy running through the Carolina's punt coverage and Connor leaves his feet to spin the guy like a helicopter. Dude it was premeditated. Westy talked about it before the game and then Connor went in their and like Rex said, "killed the guy".

Its not just helmet spearing anymore, thats where this has all gone wrong. Not to mention the double standard for offensive players.

But he really didn't do that at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq0RVYCHkr8

[SMC]

Then you arent paying attention. You can now get flagged or fined for launching or even just landing a vicious hit. Totally different then leading with a helmet.

Dunta Robinson had a perfectly legal hit on DJack. He got fined.

The rule is ridiculous.

JiF, your take is completely incorrect. They didn't change the rules and Robinson's hit wasn't legal under the rules.

These are the current rules (which haven't been changed) according to PFT and paraphrased by the site:

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8, under the heading of "unnecessary roughness." Under subpart (f), the rule generally prohibits the use of the helmet "to butt, spear or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily." In other words, the helmet and no part of it may be used as a weapon. In any situation.

***

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8(h) extends the protection to receivers who have not have time to protect themselves, prohibiting defenders from launching in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcible strike the head or neck area of a receiver, even if the initial contact was lower than the receiver's neck.

Robinson's hit violated Rule 12, sec. 2, art. 8(h).

[SMC]

Wrong. Eliminating headshots is fine; the crux of the problem is that the NFL has made safety such a point of emphasis that officials are flagging any big hit, legal or illegal, as a matter of course.

...the NFL supported a completely incorrect call to the tune of $50,000.

Sorry, DBate, but you're wrong. Robinson's hit violated the current rules (as detailed in my above post) and the rules have not been changed.

[KudosForND]

I never really liked Schelerth but i think he is 100% right in this video

My link

[JustInFudge]

Please, tell us the story again about the time you scored 4 TD"s in a game against Andrew Johnson High School.

You're an idiot.

But he really didn't do that at all.

You're a homer.

JiF, your take is completely incorrect. They didn't change the rules and Robinson's hit wasn't legal under the rules.

These are the current rules (which haven't been changed) according to PFT and paraphrased by the site:

Robinson's hit violated Rule 12, sec. 2, art. 8(h).

And how is my take wrong? I said, you can now get flagged for what you've shown me above, which IMO is ******* asinine. Its too hard to police, the game is way to fast to ask for complete control of your body, if you go into these plays tentatively then you are actually more prone to get injured, its a double standard for the offense as they are allowed to lower their helmet and put their hands on the face of a defender, and while its great they are looking out for the player safety, its gone way too far.

So my take, is opinion based on the what the NFL is doing from in terms of penalizing these players.

[Bleedin Green]

And **** you too. Its not like I said, listen to me, I played High School Football. I'm just trying to relate to my playing days and how it was bang bang and sometimes everything you are taught goes out the window to make a play.

You were probably joining Hector in his basement, but I take you as more like CTM. You were probably working on your C++ programming in High School while I was playing sports and banging cheerleaders.

Dick.

Well we're a little testy today aren't we? I'm glad to hear you managed to take down the obligatory fatty on the cheerleading squad from the bottom of the pyramid. Good for you, I'm really impressed. Seriously, I meant that. Oh, and I never took any C++ classes in high school.

It was Java... dumbass.

[Klecko73isGod]

You're a homer.

Why, because I have eyes and can see that John Connor not only did NOT leave his feet as you suggested but his head was up and he hit the Panther player with his shoulder and NOT his head?

This has nothing to do with homer or not a homer. I'd be making the same argument if a Patriots player made the hit Connor made.

This has to do with having eyesight.

[JustInFudge]

Well we're a little testy today aren't we? I'm glad to hear you managed to take down the obligatory fatty on the cheerleading squad from the bottom of the pyramid. Good for you, I'm really impressed. Seriously, I meant that. Oh, and I never took any C++ classes in high school.

It was Java... dumbass.

Ha!

What, I cant bust ya back?

Dick.

[Bleedin Green]

Ha!

What, I cant bust ya back?

Dick.

Of course you can, just don't expect me not to be a dick in return.

Dick.

[JustInFudge]

Why, because I have eyes and can see that John Connor not only did NOT leave his feet as you suggested but his head was up and he hit the Panther player with his shoulder and NOT his head?

This has nothing to do with homer or not a homer. I'd be making the same argument if a Patriots player made the hit Connor made.

This has to do with having eyesight.

Meh, he leaves his feet, its not as bad as other hits I've seen...but he gets very low and "launches" at the guy.

Again, another reason why the rule is stupid. How do you police it? IMO, that would be "launching" at a defenseless player.

Homer.

[SMC]

And how is my take wrong? I said, you can now get flagged for what you've shown me above, which IMO is ******* asinine. Its too hard to police, the game is way to fast to ask for complete control of your body, if you go into these plays tentatively then you are actually more prone to get injured, its a double standard for the offense as they are allowed to lower their helmet and put their hands on the face of a defender, and while its great they are looking out for the player safety, its gone way too far.

So my take, is opinion based on the what the NFL is doing from in terms of penalizing these players.

Your take is wrong is because you are saying that NOW a player can get flagged. That is 100% incorrect because you're saying there has been a rule change. They didn't change the rule, they are simply enforcing the rules currently on the book.

So the same infraction flagged on Robinson should have been flagged last year and the year before. The problem was that the refs were not doing their jobs.

[Bergen Jet]

Please, tell us the story again about the time you scored 4 TD"s in a game against Andrew Johnson High School.

Polk High Football rules!

[Klecko73isGod]

Meh, he leaves his feet, its not as bad as other hits I've seen...but he gets very low and "launches" at the guy.

Again, another reason why the rule is stupid. How do you police it? IMO, that would be "launching" at a defenseless player.

Homer.

Did you really play football? You're always supposed to get low when you are blocking. It's because it gives you better leverage. And Connor really didn't get all that low anyway.

I also don't see how a guy using perfect technique and lowering his shoulder and hitting the guy as clean as can be can be considered "launching."

Connor's hit was textbook. There was no flag. No one argued it wasn't clean or questioned the hit until you did earlier in this thread as far as I know.

[JustInFudge]

Your take is wrong is because you are saying that NOW a player can get flagged. That is 100% incorrect because you're saying there has been a rule change. They didn't change the rule, they are simply enforcing the rules currently on the book.

So the same infraction flagged on Robinson should have been flagged last year and the year before. The problem was that the refs were not doing their jobs.

OMG, spare me your semantics bull sh*t...either way, they are NOW enforcing a stupid rule. Jeez. And thats what this is about, its a stupid rule that ruining the game.

[JustInFudge]

Did you really play football? You're always supposed to get low when you are blocking. It's because it gives you better leverage. And Connor really didn't get all that low anyway.

I also don't see how a guy using perfect technique and lowering his shoulder and hitting the guy as clean as can be can be considered "launching."

Connor's hit was textbook. There was no flag. No one argued it wasn't clean or questioned the hit until you did earlier in this thread as far as I know.

That wasnt a typical block when a player is in a 3 point stance at the line or a FB is blasting through the line. That hit was no different then how defenders take down WR's the go over the middle. Thats why I used the example.

I dont know what you are arguing, but by the interpretation the rule, you could make a case, which just goes to show how stupid it is...thats all I'm saying.

Homer.

[The Crusher]

Then you didnt play aggressively. I played MLB for all my years in High School and when I wanted to jar a ball, I launched to try and get that ball loose. I'm not a big guy in LB'er standards and needed everything I had on those hits.

And again, its a double standard, its o.k. for a RB to finish a run by launching at a defender, but its not o.k. for the defense?

If this rule was implemented on offense, John Connor would be broke by the end of the year.

Me too. Difference is I AM a big guy and I knocked motherfockers out. Roger Goodell is going to kill football.

[Klecko73isGod]

That wasnt a typical block when a player is in a 3 point stance at the line or a FB is blasting through the line. That hit was no different then how defenders take down WR's the go over the middle. Thats why I used the example.

I dont know what you are arguing, but by the interpretation the rule, you could make a case, which just goes to show how stupid it is...thats all I'm saying.

Homer.

FTR, I played MLB as well and I had a coach who would kill me if I tried that knock a guy down by launching yourself at him crap.

Get low, head up, wrap the man up and throw him down. That's how you tackle Brod!

[flgreen]

I understand the reason spearing, or helmet to helmet hits are outlawed, but the defenseless receiver rule is pure BS.

Jackson is running full speed in one direction, Robinson is running full speed in the opposite direction. The ball and Robinson arrive at the same time. Robinson has a choice. He can either veer off, let Jackson catch the ball and run for a TD, or plant him. IMO he made a good football play.

There has been no real rule change here, but it is also very clear that the nature of football is about to change.

If they were going to reserve suspensions for particularly vicious hits, that are clearly intended to injure, I wouldn’t mind. They are not. They are going to do the PC thing and be suspending players left and right to make a point.

In time it will change the nature of the game. If they want to do that just ban helmets. That will stop it.

Even the players, who they claim they are doing this for don’t like it. They aren’t doing this for the players, they are doing it for the PC crowd.

If you don’t like watching a violent game watch soccer. All the violence takes place in the stands.

[Vicious89x]

FTR, I played MLB as well and I had a coach who would kill me if I tried that knock a guy down by launching yourself at him crap.

Get low, head up, wrap the man up and throw him down. That's how you tackle Brod!

Lol I played FS and only ever looked to destroy people IF given the opportunity. You can smell it out when you're out there, and if I saw it I'd go to try and crush someone, never just look to wrap someone up. I guess my point is that moment when you smell it out is a few seconds. And all I ever felt was like I wanted to absolutely destroy the other person. If I missed it meant laps but it's not like there weren't helmet slaps and all that crap if you leveled someone.

Just my opinion. I think it's part of the game. The issue is with this new "enforcement" of these rules as you can make cases to and for each hit. JMO.

[#27TheDominator]

I didn't review Harrison's hits, but try to hit a guy with your shoulder without leading with your helmet. It's not that easy.

[Larz]

I hope he misses jets week !

[s dubb]

I dont disagree with Harrison here. He's batsh*t crazy, but still, the NFL are the hypocrits here. Goodell is a disaster.

This is the beginning of the end imo of the NFL as we know it.

Exactly. I don't disagree with him either. Paul Tagliabue never had this problem. He always kept the integrity of the game. You know it's crazy when even WR's and TE's are against it.

It is the beginning of the end.

[Matt39]

Exactly. I don't disagree with him either. Paul Tagliabue never had this problem. He always kept the integrity of the game. You know it's crazy when even WR's and TE's are against it.

It is the beginning of the end.

It absolutely is as we know. And the fact this is the commissioner making the decisions and not the players...They know the consequences and the very science you, the commissioner and others have the ability to site. They also know that this is a game that they signed up for and the long term implications of turning the game into flag football and the resulting loss of income with the league turning away the fans is more impactful to them than their long term health.

Most of the players aren't thinking about the long term implications of playing the sport. So why should I act concerned for them gluded to my television, watching them with interest after their careers are long over?

They don't care, and I for one am not responsible for doing the caring for them.

[RutgersJetFan]

[CTM]

While this is a little ridiculous, I heard an interview with him on the I think it was the Dan Patrick show yesterday? Not sure, but it was pretty candid and the guy had great points.

You're whole Football career, as a defender, you are literally taught at nausea, dont let receiver come over the middle and if they do, make them pay for it so that they think twice about doing it again.

He's kind of a crazy dude, but I also respect the guy. When I played, I wanted to hurt people. Nobody wants to injury anyone, but I definitely wanted to hit people and make them think about running my way a 2nd time.

was this addressed yet?

[AFJF]

Right...and what exactly is James Harrison going to do for a living when he "retires" from the NFL. Give me a friggin break. Unless he's saved every cent he's made so far and is willing to live in the mountains like Ricky Williams then he's not going anywhere.

[neckdemon]

I thought we got past this...its not just about players leading with their helmet. Its also about players launching to hit and block. Which Connor does, hell, Rex played it over and over again on hard knocks. There is a defenseless guy running through the Carolina's punt coverage and Connor leaves his feet to spin the guy like a helicopter. Dude it was premeditated. Westy talked about it before the game and then Connor went in their and like Rex said, "killed the guy".

Its not just helmet spearing anymore, thats where this has all gone wrong. Not to mention the double standard for offensive players.

first of all he didn't lead with his helmet there....as you can see in klecko's video. 2nd.....the guy wasn't defenseless.

[JustInFudge]

first of all he didn't lead with his helmet there....as you can see in klecko's video. 2nd.....the guy wasn't defenseless.

You didnt read my post. Flags and fines are coming for launching and devastating hits. Which he most certainly did.

Watch the video below, the chip 2, hit the back side 5 that Westy is talking is designed for the Terminator to come behind the pack and destroy the guy who is unblocked and has no clue Connor is coming. He then launches and destroys the guy a guy who maybe isnt defenseless, but he's no more at his mercy not knowing its coming than a WR who is has a target and leaves himself defenseless. This video is a much better depiction of what happened.

My point wasnt to use a perfect example because I was trying to show the ridiculousness of these rules. Basically, I'm saying, I could see this easily being fined with the direction we're headed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvmbPh49Jo&feature=related

And never agree with Klacko. You are better than that.

[flgreen]

You didnt read my post. Flags and fines are coming for launching and devastating hits. Which he most certainly did.

Watch the video below, the chip 2, hit the back side 5 that Westy is talking is designed for the Terminator to come behind the pack and destroy the guy who is unblocked and has no clue Connor is coming. He then launches and destroys the guy a guy who maybe isnt defenseless, but he's no more at his mercy not knowing its coming than a WR who is has a target and leaves himself defenseless. This video is a much better depiction of what happened.

My point wasnt to use a perfect example because I was trying to show the ridiculousness of these rules. Basically, I'm saying, I could see this easily being fined with the direction we're headed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvmbPh49Jo&feature=related

And never agree with Klacko. You are better than that.

Your point is well taken, but he didn’t leave his feet. That is what they are talking about when they say launch.

With that said this is a rule change, or at least the bizarre elevation of the penalty for it, Particularly in mid season, is going to directly affect the Jets.

They consider themselves a tough team that goes out and intimidates other teams with big hits. That is The Ryan way. That style is going to receive a major impact here

[JustInFudge]

Your point is well taken, but he didn’t leave his feet. That is what they are talking about when they say launch.

With that said this is a rule change, or at least the bizarre elevation of the penalty for it, Particularly in mid season, is going to directly affect the Jets.

They consider themselves a tough team that goes out and intimidates other teams with big hits. That is The Ryan way. That style is going to receive a major impact here

Maybe he didnt leave his feet, but he stepped into that and stepped through that hit. When he was done, he threw himself through that dude so hard, he did a 180.

Point is, was that necessary or excessive? I'd say its up for interpretation. He probably could have affectively blocked him by just wrapping him up, but nowadays, players can fight through that and its a reason why players go for the knock out blow. What better way to do you assignment on that particular play?