The receivers are becoming a problem.

[Aten]

Maybe they were already a problem, I don't know. This was the first game I've seen in person this year so I'm really not sure. In any event, they gave up on a lot of plays yesterday. There were a bunch of times when Sanchez was scrambling around keeping the play alive for basically no reason because the receivers had just stopped running. In a game that was one possession all the way and went to the last minute of overtime. Keller was the worst, but Cotchery and Holmes too and basically everybody else besides Tomlinson. Ridiculously dogsh*t effort.

[JohnnyHector]

Agreed, especially the one play when Cotchery was just standing there grabbing his balls...

[visajets]

Most pass routes are designed for a QB to take a 3-4 step drop. Sanchez holds onto the ball too long. I did see our WRs jogging on occasion but theres enough blame to go around. WRs need to come back to the ball once they see the QB in trouble.

[madmikeisback]

Keller does drive you nuts sometimes. He looks like his football IQ just vanishes at times, that being said the WR's have been great other than the packer game. Edwards has been a legit deep threat all season and Holmes basically made the biggest play in each of our last 3 wins.

[T0mShane]

Speaks to a lack of faith in the QB, IMO. Any receiver, if they're not getting the ball often enough, won't run as hard. Edwards and Holmes are in contract years, too. You'd think they'd be killing people trying to get the ball out of Sanchez's hand.

[THE ILK]

They must be reading your posts on Sanchez and giving up!

[Aten]

Speaks to a lack of faith in the QB, IMO.

Of course. I don't have any faith in the quarterback either, but I'm not the one who's supposed to be out there trying. Yeah, Sanchez holds the ball too long. Yeah, he's inaccurate. There's also probably something wrong with the way he's going through his reads. None of that changes the fact that he won the game for us yesterday and would have done it a lot sooner if the receivers hadn't dogged it for a solid 73 minutes.

[Jbro22]

I think when they watch film on yesterdays game and see how Sanchez extends plays this shouldn't be an issue going forward. Especially for Holmes who had Big Ben as his QB before this.

[Matt39]

I'm just going to stay quiet regarding Keller for now. But you should see it...

[madmikeisback]

I think when they watch film on yesterdays game and see how Sanchez extends plays this shouldn't be an issue going forward. Especially for Holmes who had Big Ben as his QB before this.

This. Sanchez is becoming one of the best QB's at moving inside in the pocket in the NFL. The WR's will catch on.

[SMC]

Maybe they were already a problem, I don't know. This was the first game I've seen in person this year so I'm really not sure. In any event, they gave up on a lot of plays yesterday. There were a bunch of times when Sanchez was scrambling around keeping the play alive for basically no reason because the receivers had just stopped running. In a game that was one possession all the way and went to the last minute of overtime. Keller was the worst, but Cotchery and Holmes too and basically everybody else besides Tomlinson. Ridiculously dogsh*t effort.

Interesting point, Aten.

On TV you won't see that and I'm watching Sanchez run around for his life and wondering, "No one is open?" The WRs need to come back to the ball. As you noted, LT is good at that.

[PatsFanTX]

Of course. I don't have any faith in the quarterback either, but I'm not the one who's supposed to be out there trying. Yeah, Sanchez holds the ball too long. Yeah, he's inaccurate. There's also probably something wrong with the way he's going through his reads. None of that changes the fact that he won the game for us yesterday and would have done it a lot sooner if the receivers hadn't dogged it for a solid 73 minutes.

When plays break down, WR's are taught to come back to the ball or go in the direction the QB is rolling.

How many times in the NFL do you see huge gainers off a broken play?

That's all on the WR's.

[Sperm Edwards]

This. Sanchez is becoming one of the best QB's at moving inside in the pocket in the NFL. The WR's will catch on.

No he isn't. He avoided two sure sacks after guys got hands on him, which was awesome. But he still needs a LOT of work on his pocket presence and just stands there in the same place for too many seconds on too many plays. He got out of those but that's only after he feels hands on him or sees a defender right in front of his face. Barring those two things he still doesn't feel pressure that great and IMO - yesterday notwithstanding - makes too few plays with his feet for a guy whose skillset isn't that of an immobile statue. Worst thing about holding the ball for so long is he's still not seeing guys who are wide open (or sees them and doesn't pull the trigger).

Like I've said in a lot of other threads, though. He's 24 and has a lot of football in his future so hopefully these things just start clicking eventually. He certainly doesn't exactly have the best OC/QBC coaching in his corner. When a WR who seems dumber than dirt has to tell the allegedly brainy OC what play will work it's a sad state. Plus I'm waiting for someone to point to one NFL QB whose career turned around for the better with Matt Cavanaugh coaching him up. I can't name one, but I can easily name ones who sucked or got worse.

[CTM]

Keller is maddenning, goes from looking like a future star to looking like gholston in back to back plays sometimes. Need to get the dude some cleats or a right foot to go with his two left feet, mutha f'er is always falling down..

[madmikeisback]

No he isn't. He avoided two sure sacks after guys got hands on him, which was awesome. But he still needs a LOT of work on his pocket presence and just stands there in the same place for too many seconds on too many plays. He got out of those but that's only after he feels hands on him or sees a defender right in front of his face. Barring those two things he still doesn't feel pressure that great and IMO - yesterday notwithstanding - makes too few plays with his feet for a guy whose skillset isn't that of an immobile statue. Worst thing about holding the ball for so long is he's still not seeing guys who are wide open (or sees them and doesn't pull the trigger).

Like I've said in a lot of other threads, though. He's 24 and has a lot of football in his future so hopefully these things just start clicking eventually. He certainly doesn't exactly have the best OC/QBC coaching in his corner. When a WR who seems dumber than dirt has to tell the allegedly brainy OC what play will work it's a sad state. Plus I'm waiting for someone to point to one NFL QB whose career turned around for the better with Matt Cavanaugh coaching him up. I can't name one, but I can easily name ones who sucked or got worse.

He's been avoiding sacks all season like that. He did miss some open WR's but he's also making big plays. The reason he's holding the ball too long at times is not his fault. It's the offense. This isn't the Seahawks and this O Line should allow him to hold the ball longer and look to make plays down the field.

[Damaged89]

He's been avoiding sacks all season like that. He did miss some open WR's but he's also making big plays. The reason he's holding the ball too long at times is not his fault. It's the offense. This isn't the Seahawks and this O Line should allow him to hold the ball longer and look to make plays down the field.

No NFL quarterback should be holding the ball for 4+ seconds like Sanchez does routinely. Something is wrong, either he's not seeing the open guys or he's too indecisive. No way that between Edwards, Holmes, Keller and Smith/Tomlinson/Cotchery NO ONE is getting open. The only reason he hasn't gotten decapitated yet is because our offensive line is awesome.

[madmikeisback]

No NFL quarterback should be holding the ball for 4+ seconds like Sanchez does routinely. Something is wrong, either he's not seeing the open guys or he's too indecisive. No way that between Edwards, Holmes, Keller and Smith/Tomlinson/Cotchery NO ONE is getting open. The only reason he hasn't gotten decapitated yet is because our offensive line is awesome.

The reason the first TD of the game to Cotchery was even a TD was because he held the ball and waited for the play to develop. You can't have it both ways.

[CTM]

No NFL quarterback should be holding the ball for 4+ seconds like Sanchez does routinely. Something is wrong, either he's not seeing the open guys or he's too indecisive. No way that between Edwards, Holmes, Keller and Smith/Tomlinson/Cotchery NO ONE is getting open. The only reason he hasn't gotten decapitated yet is because our offensive line is awesome.

He's not making quick decisions and he's afraid of making a mistake. The pressure must be overwhelming.

[madmikeisback]

He's not making quick decisions and he's afraid of making a mistake. The pressure must be overwhelming.

You're bashing him for not being Chad Pennington. When we had a west coast offense here everyone hated it, now we're trying to get the ball down the field and you're bitching about that too.

[CTM]

You're bashing him for not being Chad Pennington. When we had a west coast offense here everyone hated it, now we're trying to get the ball down the field and you're bitching about that too.

Whose bitching? I've been advocating a deep ball offense all season. The fact of the matter is that he's hesitant in his decision making.

[Aten]

Worst thing about holding the ball for so long is he's still not seeing guys who are wide open (or sees them and doesn't pull the trigger).

I don't think the problem is that he's not seeing the field so much as that he's playing scared from the moment he breaks the huddle. The Browns were constantly cheating the safety opposite the play side into the box and he didn't once hot to the guy on an island with Eric Wright or Joe Haden. People can blame the coaching all they want as far as Sanchez being generally gunshy, but refusing to take the easy throw instead of the hard one isn't something that can logically be blamed on the handcuffs.

[RutgersJetFan]

No NFL quarterback should be holding the ball for 4+ seconds like Sanchez does routinely. Something is wrong, either he's not seeing the open guys or he's too indecisive. No way that between Edwards, Holmes, Keller and Smith/Tomlinson/Cotchery NO ONE is getting open. The only reason he hasn't gotten decapitated yet is because our offensive line is awesome.

4 seconds is insane. The average time is about 2.7 seconds. I agree with the OP on the topic though, it's the WR's. They don't come back in when a play gets blown up, they don't break their routes when they realize the coverage has them dead to rights, it's really weird. Jason brought it up a week or two ago and also said that it's an issue that definitely falls on coaching which I completely agree with.

[Aten]

He's not making quick decisions and he's afraid of making a mistake. The pressure must be overwhelming.

At this point I think it's an issue of giving him too much freedom rather than not enough. Aikman would have been awful too if anybody had ever tried to make him think.

[#27TheDominator]

Plus I'm waiting for someone to point to one NFL QB whose career turned around for the better with Matt Cavanaugh coaching him up. I can't name one, but I can easily name ones who sucked or got worse.

Really? Name 'em.

Rick Mirer

Erik Kramer

Tony Banks

Trent Dilfer

Kyle Boller

Steve Senstrum

Elvis Grbac

This is the Holy Grail of QB talent that Matt Cavanaugh has dealt with. He managed to win a super bowl and have a #8 ranked O along the way. Almost every one of those guys did better than their career average under Cavanaugh. Kramer and Grbac were two of the only decent ones and they were on their way out of the league. Boller was progressing, then they brought in Fassel and he got hurt.

[serphnx]

They don't run routes. I was watching this, because it's been bothering me. All they ever do is run forward and then do this really dumb stutter step thing. If the defender keeps running, they are actually open for a bit. If the defender has any intelligence whatsoever and doesn't think it's some sort of race to the endzone, the player is covered and Sanchez doesn't have an option to throw to.

They are also almost always only on the outside. Generally, the middle of the field is where most passing occurs. If you look at Peyton Manning and Drew Brees they generally throw for around 200 yards in the middle and maybe 50 combined on the left and right side of the field. Also if you look at 3rd down passing numbers, the best generally roughly complete about 35% or so of their passes.

A schitty offense has no routes, has most throws designed to the outside, and expects a QB to complete 100% of their passes on third down. It is fundamentally flawed. Also if there is any "design" it is generally designed to get the ball to 3 WRs, rather than getting the ball to the stars like every other NFL team.

Schotty would lose with Peyton Manning, Roddy White and Andre Johnson on the same team. He would just take Peyton out for Brad Smith and have the play go to Jerricho Cotchery, who would be required to dive 5 feet and make a one handed grab in order to get 8 yards on a play.

This is very frustrating to watch. Sanchez is not a top QB in this league but he is at least in the top half to top third. I guarantee you if he was on the Patriots, Saints, Packers or any other number of actual good teams he'd look like a top 5 QB in the league with the talent on this offense. Every yard is a struggle for this offense, whereas generally in the NFL the rules are so ridiculously slanted in favor of the offense that for the most part offense is pretty easy for teams. Hell if you were watching this game you watched the Browns getting chunks of yardage and making it look very easy plenty of the time, and this was against probably the best D in the league.

It's okay to have one or two bad games. But the Jets are just consistently bad.

I'm at the point that I don't want to watch Jets games anymore at all, and would rather be at work. I don't know if I'd be more annoyed or not following along on game tracker, but at least I'd be getting paid and get free food. It is very frustrating watching the talent on this team being wasted.

People dog on Randy Moss for giving up, but at least he runs his route first most of the time or just knows he is the decoy on the play. Holmes and Braylon were on other teams before this and they certainly looked like they were trying and they did perform for those teams. It is the common denominator. How many teams and players have to be wasted before the FO and CS get rid of the common cancer? This is a ******* pro bowl team on both sides of the ball. There is no excuse for this.

[Klecko73isGod]

In another thread, someone mentioned that Phil Simms made an observation during the game about our receivers not running traditional routes. Did anyone hear the whole thing? What, exactly, did he mean? Can someone who has seen the Jets live this year comment on if there is anything unusual about the types of routes the Jets receivers are running?

For a group of talented receivers they don't seem to get great separation very often.

[Aten]

In another thread, someone mentioned that Phil Simms made an observation during the game about our receivers not running traditional routes. Did anyone hear the whole thing? What, exactly, did he mean?

Basically he meant that it's not the 1980s anymore. Phil Simms does air quotes when he says option route.

[RutgersJetFan]

There was a great article on Fanhouse last week which tracked how long all of the QB's in the league have been holding the ball this year on average on sacks. Sanchez's average was 3.09 and I think his median was 2.45, both which are fairly high. Anything above 3 is a problem.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/11/11/o-line-em-up-which-qbs-are-holding-the-ball-too-long/

It's worth noting that of all the notable starting QB's drafted within the last 3 seasons now starting, Sanchez's time is 4th, behind Ryan (2.82), Henne (2.75) and Clausen (2.68). McCoy (3.13), Bradford (3.52), Freeman (3.16), Stafford (an insanely high 3.88, meaning maybe his injury problems aren't just bad luck), and Flacco (3.51), are all significantly higher. So it's not like he's been incredibly bad as he's in the middle of the pack, and I think there's some slack to be given considering the WR's and the fact that all of the other QB's mentioned here had a lot more experience coming in to the league under center.

(Also, sidenote, but check out Peyton. 2.5 mean, 2.4 average, dude is just a killer).

[PatsFanTX]

In another thread, someone mentioned that Phil Simms made an observation during the game about our receivers not running traditional routes.

I think he made that comment after a 3rd down incompletion when Sanchez threw one way and the WR was going the other and the Browns were in zone coverage.

He said something like "it looks like the Jets receivers are trying to find a seam in the zone coverage rather than running traditional routes."

[Aten]

There was a great article on Fanhouse last week which tracked how long all of the QB's in the league have been holding the ball this year on average.

The problem is that how long these quarterbacks hold the ball 'on average' isn't especially useful information. You need to look at where the aggregate extra seconds are coming from. Flacco's holding the ball while and after taking a seven-step drop, which means his number is partially by design and partially because he's not making decisions quickly enough. Sanchez's quick throws aren't quick, so in his case it's more a matter of pre-snap recognition and of JUST THROW THE GODDAMN BALL ALREADY.

[serphnx]

I think he made that comment after a 3rd down incompletion when Sanchez threw one way and the WR was going the other and the Browns were in zone coverage.

He said something like "it looks like the Jets receivers are trying to find a seam in the zone coverage rather than running traditional routes."

Instead of actually picking on things that should be picked on, you've become a total troll. Simms made the comment after the Holmes TD in OT to win the game. A complete pass that went for a TD to win the game, off of a slant, the first actual route run all game.

[PatsFanTX]

Instead of actually picking on things that should be picked on, you've become a total troll. Simms made the comment after the Holmes TD in OT to win the game. A complete pass that went for a TD to win the game, off of a slant, the first actual route run all game.

The what was his comment in the 2nd quarter after the incompletion?

[RutgersJetFan]

Sanchez's quick throws aren't quick, so in his case it's more a matter of pre-snap recognition and of JUST THROW THE GODDAMN BALL ALREADY.

So your original premise of this thread is that the receivers are giving up on plays and Sanchez is scrambling needlessly "for no reason" because of them, and now you're saying that the above are mainly the two reasons why he isn't getting rid of the ball?

[serphnx]

The what was his comment in the 2nd quarter after the incompletion?

Maybe he did make that comment, but I want more Schotty bashing rather than concentrating on Sanchez. You seriously can't tell me you have nothing negative to say about the Jets play design, offensive philosophy and play calling. That has got to be a better use of your time than just bashing Sanchez exclusively.

[MasonJet]

We have tons of offensive talent in an offense friendly league, and yet we can barely score touchdowns for some reason. I wonder why that could be?