The Crusher Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Not for nothing, but it would take a lot more than free tickets to watch Eric Mangini for me to turn a buddy in. Obviously. But if you lived in crappy Cleveland and was a miserable married prick dying to get out of the house on Sunday then it's a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Not for nothing, but it would take a lot more than free tickets to watch Eric Mangini for me to turn a buddy in. Cleveland. CLEVELAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Not for nothing, but it would take a lot more than free tickets to watch Eric Mangini for me to turn a buddy in. Not for hurting a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Not for hurting a kid. NEVER SURRENDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 NEVER SURRENDER Amen. Mercy is for the week. I still say that kid probably was spitting some trash and got what he deserved. I don't care if you're 58 or 8, if you wear a visitor's jersey into a football game, you risk getting Goldberg'd. Maybe next time he'll just wear neutral colors and sit in the stands with a nice hot cup of shut the f up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Cleveland. CLEVELAND. All the more reason not to do it. What, you think Barry from Parma's life is going to get better if his buddy can't leave the house now? That's just what a Clevelander needs going in to winter; losing his drinking buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Amen. Mercy is for the week. I still say that kid probably was spitting some trash and got what he deserved. I don't care if you're 58 or 8, if you wear a visitor's jersey into a football game, you risk getting Goldberg'd. Maybe next time he'll just wear neutral colors and sit in the stands with a nice hot cup of shut the f up. "Sweep the leg" or go home!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 "Sweep the leg" or go home!!!! Crush, if he offered a sausage sandwich you’d turn your brother in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If the punk never pulls a weapon and you beat him to a pulp, then you go to jail facing serious assault charges. I NEVER said beat him to a pulp. That's internet tought guy stuff. I'm talking about something else. I said kick him in the face or the back of the head while getting the kid. That's rule-book self defense. If you go fight the guy afterwards then that is possible assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I NEVER said beat him to a pulp. That's internet tought guy stuff. I'm talking about something else. I said kick him in the face or the back of the head while getting the kid. That's rule-book self defense. If you go fight the guy afterwards then that is possible assault. Quick question; what happens after his buddies go after you for kicking him in the face? How does that help get your son to safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 NEVER SURRENDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I NEVER said beat him to a pulp. That's internet tought guy stuff. I'm talking about something else. I said kick him in the face or the back of the head while getting the kid. That's rule-book self defense. If you go fight the guy afterwards then that is possible assault. You said in your post you would stomp on the guys head. That by itself could kill a person or seriously injure them, thus I posted beating to a pulp. Kicking someone in the face can break their nose, break their jaw, or knock their teeth out. This will most likely result in assault charges. I disagree with Bergen in that juries are very unpredictable. They may consider this kind of action excessive, even though it was in self defense. It's happened may times before. Regardless, it's still not worth it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Quick question; what happens after his buddies go after you for kicking him in the face? How does that help get your son to safety? If you look at my list, you'd note that I said kick the guy in the head and run. I grew up in the Bronx. I've outrun cops all the time. I think I can outrun a bunch of drunk guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 You said in your post you would stomp on the guys head. That by itself could kill a person or seriously injure them, thus I posted beating to a pulp. Kicking someone in the face can break their nose, break their jaw, or knock their teeth out. This will most likely result in assault charges. I disagree with Bergen in that juries are very unpredictable. They may consider this kind of action excessive, even though it was in self defense. It's happened may times before. Regardless, it's still not worth it IMO. That's still text-book self defense, billo. If he dies, he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If you look at my list, you'd note that I said kick the guy in the head and run. I grew up in the Bronx. I've outrun cops all the time. I think I can outrun a bunch of drunk guys. Ever see someone drunk on Taquila? That stuff can make people very violent. Not saying this punk or his buddies were, but you never know and any kind of alcohol can make a person violent and unpredictable. I wouldn't take the chance I can outrun someone, drunk or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 That's still text-book self defense, billo. If he dies, he dies. I wouldn't shed any tears for the punk, but I disagree that it would be a slam dunk for self defense. Jury veridcts have said otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 To inject some humor into this- tip on Cleveland- do not try to walk into a bar with a bottle of beer. And dont keep blowing a stoopid a$$ whistle at angry Giants fans! lol awesome Frank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 LOL, good times. This year at the Fins game in Miami some drunken fool ran up to my son (wearing a throwback Gastineau jersey) and got in his face yelling you suck!, you suck! (the idiot thought it was a Taylor jersey). My son is 21 and bigger than me and could have pounded the fool, but my fatherly instinct kicked in and I jumped in and then the jackass and I ended up pushing each other all around the plaza (kind of running at each other like rams). I didn't want to throw a punch and get thrown out of the game or arrested since we were just entering the stadium and I didn't want to waste the cost of airfare, hotel, tix and not see the friggin' game. Eventually the guy skulked away, but if one punch was thrown, then it was on, despite everything else. I don't think the jackass expected any kind of pushback, much like most bullies. The big danger though is that some fool comes out of the crowd and stick a knife in you or the mob takes over and beats everyone in your group to a pulp (though with BP and Nightstalker there, I wasn't that worried). Craig, you and that guy were slam dancing In all seriousness that was going into the stadium. definitely not worth being thrown out or arrested. you played that perfectly. I was sexually harassed by 2 female Dolphin fans in the parking lot 2 years ago after the Monday night loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Crush, if he offered a sausage sandwich you’d turn your brother in. I would rent my 11 year old son out as a tackling dummy for 2 sausage sandwiches per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Quick question; what happens after his buddies go after you for kicking him in the face? How does that help get your son to safety? Motivation to run fast FTW? I think it would be more of a reaction than thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I wouldn't shed any tears for the punk, but I disagree that it would be a slam dunk for self defense. Jury veridcts have said otherwise. You wouldn't have to worry about a jury because you would never have been arrested and prosecutors would certainly not charge you. It's like a woman who is attacked by a rapist and sprays mace in his eyes. That's self-defense. Are the police going to arrest her? Is the DA going to prosecute? Of course not. We're talking about a situation where a man attacks another person's child and the father protects the child. Protecting the child is the equivelent of protecting yourself under the eyes of the law. Again, it's no different than the near-rape victim injurying her attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 FLORHAM PARK, N.J. (AP) — The New York Jets have offered to host an 8-year-old fan and his family for a home game after he was allegedly tackled by a drunken Browns fan following Sunday’s game in Cleveland. Matt Higgins, the Jets’ executive vice president for business operations, says the team contacted the boy’s family Wednesday. The Jets offered to fly them to New York, arrange for seats in a suite and provide autographed items from the team, but the family declined. A Browns spokesman said Wednesday that the team also contacted the family and offered “anything we can do” after hearing about the “unfortunate” incident. The boy reportedly scraped and bruised an ankle after being struck by the older fan in a parking lot near Cleveland Browns Stadium. Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldie Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Dear Jets, My son got tackled too. Give me some free stuff. Can I meet Mr. Revis? Baldie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 You wouldn't have to worry about a jury because you would never have been arrested and prosecutors would certainly not charge you. It's like a woman who is attacked by a rapist and sprays mace in his eyes. That's self-defense. Are the police going to arrest her? Is the DA going to prosecute? Of course not. We're talking about a situation where a man attacks another person's child and the father protects the child. Protecting the child is the equivelent of protecting yourself under the eyes of the law. Again, it's no different than the near-rape victim injurying her attacker. There is a huge difference between spraying mace in someones eyes and stomping on someones head and killing them. I'm not saying it's fair or right, but there's been many cases where a person has been charged and convicted of assault or manslaughter in similar cicumstances while claiming self defense. If you don't believe me, search some legal forums. Part of the problem here is we don't know all of the facts. Was the father drunk as well (and if he was, I'd bet my last red cent he would be charged if he killed the punk). Did the punk have a bunch of friends with him that might paint a different picture? You just don't know and can't say for a fact he wouldn't be charged. There was a case not too long ago in my state where as a result of road rage, an 18 year old kid got of a car he was riding in with 2 other 18 year olds, and proceeded to whale on a 40+ year old man sitting in his car. The 40 year old pulled out a knif and stabbed the kid to death. He claimed self defense and that he feared for his life, but was charged with 2nd degree murder. So you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 There is a huge difference between spraying mace in someones eyes and stomping on someones head and killing them. I'm not saying it's fair or right, but there's been many cases where a person has been charged and convicted of assault or manslaughter in similar cicumstances while claiming self defense. If you don't believe me, search some legal forums. Part of the problem here is we don't know all of the facts. Was the father drunk as well (and if he was, I'd bet my last red cent he would be charged if he killed the punk). Did the punk have a bunch of friends with him that might paint a different picture? You just don't know and can't say for a fact he wouldn't be charged. There was a case not too long ago in my state where as a result of road rage, an 18 year old kid got of a car he was riding in with 2 other 18 year olds, and proceeded to whale on a 40+ year old man sitting in his car. The 40 year old pulled out a knif and stabbed the kid to death. He claimed self defense and that he feared for his life, but was charged with 2nd degree murder. So you never know. Billo, I'm an attorney and I know the law. I've also read the stories. I agree with you about not knowing all the facts. The road-rage incident is completely distinguishable. The 40 yr old used a weapon, probably an illegal weapon to kill the 18 yr old. What I'm talking about is the equivelent of a woman being attacked in an alley and using a brick that's lying around to hit the assailant over the head to get free. If the perp dies she is not being charged with manslaughter or murder. Stomping on the guy's head in order to free your son from the perp's clutches will in no way subject you to criminal prosecution. You're not using a weapon. The child IS in imminent danger. Under those circumstances, you are permited to use even deadly force to free your son. That's the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Dear NYJETS I was more than tackled ticket sales people repeatedly harrassed me abused me into buying a PSL. My phone rang all hours of the day and night. I feel violated and abused. I still suffer from after shock as everytime the phone rings I think its the NYJETS. Please consider compensating me in some way shape or form. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Billo, I'm an attorney and I know the law. I've also read the stories. I agree with you about not knowing all the facts. The road-rage incident is completely distinguishable. The 40 yr old used a weapon, probably an illegal weapon to kill the 18 yr old. What I'm talking about is the equivelent of a woman being attacked in an alley and using a brick that's lying around to hit the assailant over the head to get free. If the perp dies she is not being charged with manslaughter or murder. Stomping on the guy's head in order to free your son from the perp's clutches will in no way subject you to criminal prosecution. You're not using a weapon. The child IS in imminent danger. Under those circumstances, you are permited to use even deadly force to free your son. That's the law. Fair enough. I agree with what you said about the weapons. The thing is we are speculating on what COULD have happended IF the father had attacked the attacker, and at the same time don't know all of the facts. I read the story again and I don't see anything that says the boy was in the clutches of the attacker. So what exactly constitutes tackling the boy? Did the drunk lose his balance and basically knock the boy down, did he lunge at the boy and slam him down to the ground, or somewhere in between? I believe the guy probably stumbled and maybe even grabbed onto the boy to break his fall and wound up taking them both down to the ground. That would of course appear as if he tackled the boy. I think that is what is influencing my opinion on the matter. But who knows, maybe he did lunge at the boy. If that's the case, it is truly sickening. One thing is for sure, the Cleveland fans look like a bunch of scumbags, and the city has been embarrassed. I bet the city will now do something to try and prevent something like this happening again. Maybe have security patrolling the parking lots or installing cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I wouldn't be surprised if the mother is just embellishing this to make it seem worse than it was. Mothers have a tendency to do that. That's probably also why they declined to be flown out to attend a Jets' game in a suite and want this to end. They probably realize the longer this goes, the higher the probability it will come out that someone isn't being honest about what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Fair enough. I agree with what you said about the weapons. The thing is we are speculating on what COULD have happended IF the father had attacked the attacker, and at the same time don't know all of the facts. I read the story again and I don't see anything that says the boy was in the clutches of the attacker. So what exactly constitutes tackling the boy? Did the drunk lose his balance and basically knock the boy down, did he lunge at the boy and slam him down to the ground, or somewhere in between? I believe the guy probably stumbled and maybe even grabbed onto the boy to break his fall and wound up taking them both down to the ground. That would of course appear as if he tackled the boy. I think that is what is influencing my opinion on the matter. But who knows, maybe he did lunge at the boy. If that's the case, it is truly sickening. One thing is for sure, the Cleveland fans look like a bunch of scumbags, and the city has been embarrassed. I bet the city will now do something to try and prevent something like this happening again. Maybe have security patrolling the parking lots or installing cameras. Billo, I agree with your point. Mine was only a narrow issue and was nuanced. Son in imminent danger + use of force to protect him = legal activity. And, like you, I see the story being fishy as well. Like you say, what is tackling? I play around with my 5 yr old son. We play football and when I tackle him on the sofa (he loves that) there is no way he's getting up unless I let him. So if this drunk guy really tackled the 8 yr old I don't know how the kid got free. Normally, you would need to exert force to free him. It doesn't make sense. Also, pure speculation (haha, even more!) wouldn't the kid have been more injured than a scraped ankle if he was tackled onto the hard ground? The story smells to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Motivation to run fast FTW? I think it would be more of a reaction than thought out. So you'll be carrying an 8-year old, or dragging him along by the hand, and you'll also be outrunning a gang of angry drunkards? Sounds realistic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Sweet for the kid!!! Still the father is a pussey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 The mother looked like she was ready to kick some a$$ on the news. Maybe the father is a wimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 So you'll be carrying an 8-year old, or dragging him along by the hand, and you'll also be outrunning a gang of angry drunkards? Sounds realistic to me. I was kidding. Let me explain how this would go if it was me and my son. Crusher: Jets won, let's get food Lil Sal: Yes!!!!! The Jets won, man your fat *guy tackles little Sal* Lil Sal: Damn it Dad , you ******* fell on me again!!! Crusher: No,, that drunk turd tackled you, you pussy Lil Sal: Oh my ankle hurts Crusher: What a wus Drunk Guy: Jets suck Crusher: your a special kind of tard Drunk guys friends: "**** you fatty" Crusher: Nice City, enjoy the bread lines, Drunk guys: "****.... *Crusher grabs guy that ran into kid, lifts him off his feet kisses him and slams him on the ground* Drunk guy: what? Crusher: Sorry, thought you where Lebrons mom Lil Sal: My ankle hurtts Crusher: Rub some dirt on it * crowd of friends beats their own friends a$$ because they figure kid has a tuff enough life* EASY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 LT signed a ball and sent it to him. The guy's a lowlife loser! /garbaged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I was kidding. Let me explain how this would go if it was me and my son. Crusher: Jets won, let's get food Lil Sal: Yes!!!!! The Jets won, man your fat *guy tackles little Sal* Lil Sal: Damn it Dad , you ******* fell on me again!!! Crusher: No,, that drunk turd tackled you, you pussy Lil Sal: Oh my ankle hurts Crusher: What a wus Drunk Guy: Jets suck Crusher: your a special kind of tard Drunk guys friends: "**** you fatty" Crusher: Nice City, enjoy the bread lines, Drunk guys: "****.... *Crusher grabs guy that ran into kid, lifts him off his feet kisses him and slams him on the ground* Drunk guy: what? Crusher: Sorry, thought you where Lebrons mom Lil Sal: My ankle hurtts Crusher: Rub some dirt on it * crowd of friends beats their own friends a$$ because they figure kid has a tuff enough life* EASY Winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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