Gift or Curse?

[sh4dy15]

Some of you will think I'm crazy and thats fine because I know how clutch he has been for us and that he was one of the only JEts that seemed to show up Monday but if you think about it take a look at the games the Jets played before he came back. Honestly I think they were a better team without him. I find it interesting that the 3 games (after the Baltimore game) we played awesome, Sanchez playing great, we beat the Pats, beat Miami, smashed buffalo, 3-0 in the division, and everything running better than planned. We're hitting Edwards on deep routes, even a few fades for TD's (in Pats game), Keller is having close to or over 100 yds receiving...and then Holmes comes back. Everyone says this makes the Jets a better team and all of a sudden were in all these close games with teams that we shouldnt be in close games with. Dustin Keller vanishes, we throw downfield less, no more fades, and we're barely getting by teams that we should be killing. Those first few games Keller and Edwards had multiple TD games now you see them targeted less and less. Edwards had 5 or 6 TDs in first 5 games and Keller had close to the same and we were winning games by a larger margin. I know Edwards had a few drops on Monday that hurt but he has been clutch for us this year and had probably the best hands on the team up until then. Both him and Keller need to be targeted more downfield and stop worrying about running a slant with Holmes every throwing play. Yes he was one of the only Jets to come ready to play Monday but he was targeted ALOT and that may be the issue. I'm sorry and I'm probably in the minority but if you cant keep em all next year, I hope they say goodbye to Holmes.

[Baldie]

I was thinking about the future of the Jets driving into work and realized I would be fine if we didn't resign either of these two guys. I rather invest in a new RT and another TE (I like the Pat's forumla). What good is a top 10 D with a stale offense. We need a grassroots approach and have a young offense work in unison and players that appreciate the game and WANT to be on the field regardless of touches and big plays.

I hate the man but BB figured out something good this year with the release of Moss.

[Green DNA]

You can never have enough good players, it is up to the OC and the QB to keep everyone involved. The fact that Holmes is making plays should "in theory" open things up for the other guys. Why that has not happened is baffling.

[sh4dy15]

I was thinking about the future of the Jets driving into work and realized I would be fine if we didn't resign either of these two guys. I rather invest in a new RT and another TE (I like the Pat's forumla). What good is a top 10 D with a stale offense. We need a grassroots approach and have a young offense work in unison and players that appreciate the game and WANT to be on the field regardless of touches and big plays.

I hate the man but BB figured out something good this year with the release of Moss.

See I think Keller and Edwards were an AWESOME combo. Edwards can run the same slants that Holmes is now getting and he was hard to bring down! Yes holmes is fast as **** but if he gets caught he's goin down, Keller would bowl guys over. And Edwards, I just think this guy has such potential to be a GREAT WR for us and he was headed in that direction. Once Sanchez gets the fade pass down, he will be deadly in the redzone.

[sh4dy15]

You can never have enough good players, it is up to the OC and the QB to keep everyone involved. The fact that Holmes is making plays should "in theory" open things up for the other guys. Why that has not happened is baffling.

I dunno man, I think Holmes is a great WR but has a huge ego and may be in Sanchez's ear. I hope not but I wouldnt be surprised.

[Matt39]

See I think Keller and Edwards were an AWESOME combo. Edwards can run the same slants that Holmes is now getting and he was hard to bring down! Yes holmes is fast as **** but if he gets caught he's goin down, Keller would bowl guys over. And Edwards, I just think this guy has such potential to be a GREAT WR for us and he was headed in that direction. Once Sanchez gets the fade pass down, he will be deadly in the redzone.

I have never seen Dustin Keller bowl anyone over. The only thing that Keller bowls over is the line, when he trips on it.

As for Braylon, he just isnt very good. His field awareness is awful(as is Kellers) and refuses to break off patterns when Sanchez's first read isnt there.

The first few games the defense was playing a lot better and we were running the ball more effectively.

[Irish Jet]

I have never seen Dustin Keller bowl anyone over. The only thing that Keller bowls over is the line, when he trips on it.

As for Braylon, he just isnt very good. His field awareness is awful(as is Kellers) and refuses to break off patterns when Sanchez's first read isnt there.

The first few games the defense was playing a lot better and we were running the ball more effectively.

This.

Keller is easily the most overrated guy on the roster.

[Matt39]

This.

Keller is easily the most overrated guy on the roster.

Can we start calling him Helen?

[Sperm Edwards]

Interesting point regarding the offense since Holmes arrived. But I wouldn't blame Holmes for it. The problem is with

(a) an OC who doesn't know how to scheme for everyone

(b) a QB who doesn't know how to distribute the ball as well as a veteran

(c) the OL not giving the QB a ton of time

(d) an OC who doesn't account for (c) when dialing up plays - leaving the team with deep routes not attempted, checkdowns, and once in a while Holmes on a quick pass if he's open

(e) a HC who's sitting idly by while all this is going on, unable to aid in intervening beyond the 3 traffic light colors

(f) back to the OC, who won't let the QB develop a rhythm. Lets LT run up the gut for 3 plays in a row but as soon as a WR catches a pass he comes off the field. Not to mention - last night notwithstanding - the percentage of times the wildcat is incorporated that occur just as Sanchez might be getting into a rhythm.

(g) at times when our OC isn't making stupid calls, and these guys are getting open, that's too-often coincided with when Sanchez turns into the accuracy of Kellen Clemens minus the arm strength.

(h) the defense - pass defense in particular - is just not playing well of late.

Among the OC, HC, and QB - they don't seem to have a feel for the game on offense. It's not just what you call, but when you call it. The only one I'm absolving somewhat is Sanchez because he's just a 24 year-old kid with very little experience. But we don't get spotted a FG because Sanchez is young.

Outside of half a non-injured season of Brett Favre, our offense under BS has generally been mediocre even when it's firing on all cylinders. At some point the rationalization for what Schottenheimer schemes or doesn't scheme has to go out the window and you judge the offense by its production: namely, how many points we're scoring. They are poorly coached on offense. No matter what he knows or doesn't, how smart or stupid he is, however good or bad a play is called in hindsight, whatever nice or not-nice things players or coaches say about him, it doesn't matter in the end because we aren't scoring enough points. Paul Hackett, I'm sure, knew more about offense than most people who have been in the league and there's a long, long line of players who gushed about how brilliant the guy was. And in the end he was still a lousy OC. So is Schottenheimer.

When we looked at the team on paper on offense months ago, the question was how any defense was going to be able to account for a (generally) solid OL plus Holmes plus Edwards plus Keller plus Greene or LT. And these clowns can't score a single TD against a good defense. We've scored what, 2 touchdowns in the first quarter in 11 games and none since Oct 3rd against the friggin' Bills (which makes deferring opening kickoffs all the more annoying). The guy's offenses just don't put points on the board unless we're playing a lousy defense having a bad day, and I've been reserved to the notion that no amount of talent acquired will be enough.

Having Santonio Holmes on the roster is not a problem.

[Irish Jet]

Interesting point regarding the offense since Holmes arrived. But I wouldn't blame Holmes for it. The problem is with

(a) an OC who doesn't know how to scheme for everyone

(b) a QB who doesn't know how to distribute the ball as well as a veteran

(c) the OL not giving the QB a ton of time

(d) an OC who doesn't account for (c) when dialing up plays - leaving the team with deep routes not attempted, checkdowns, and once in a while Holmes on a quick pass if he's open

(e) a HC who's sitting idly by while all this is going on, unable to aid in intervening beyond the 3 traffic light colors

(f) back to the OC, who won't let the QB develop a rhythm. Lets LT run up the gut for 3 plays in a row but as soon as a WR catches a pass he comes off the field. Not to mention - last night notwithstanding - the percentage of times the wildcat is incorporated that occur just as Sanchez might be getting into a rhythm.

(g) at times when our OC isn't making stupid calls, and these guys are getting open, that's too-often coincided with when Sanchez turns into the accuracy of Kellen Clemens minus the arm strength.

(h) the defense - pass defense in particular - is just not playing well of late.

Among the OC, HC, and QB - they don't seem to have a feel for the game on offense. It's not just what you call, but when you call it. The only one I'm absolving somewhat is Sanchez because he's just a 24 year-old kid with very little experience. But we don't get spotted a FG because Sanchez is young.

Outside of half a non-injured season of Brett Favre, our offense under BS has generally been mediocre even when it's firing on all cylinders. At some point the rationalization for what Schottenheimer schemes or doesn't scheme has to go out the window and you judge the offense by its production: namely, how many points we're scoring. They are poorly coached on offense. No matter what he knows or doesn't, how smart or stupid he is, however good or bad a play is called in hindsight, whatever nice or not-nice things players or coaches say about him, it doesn't matter in the end because we aren't scoring enough points. Paul Hackett, I'm sure, knew more about offense than most people who have been in the league and there's a long, long line of players who gushed about how brilliant the guy was. And in the end he was still a lousy OC. So is Schottenheimer.

When we looked at the team on paper on offense months ago, the question was how any defense was going to be able to account for a (generally) solid OL plus Holmes plus Edwards plus Keller plus Greene or LT. And these clowns can't score a single TD against a good defense. We've scored what, 2 touchdowns in the first quarter in 11 games and none since Oct 3rd against the friggin' Bills (which makes deferring opening kickoffs all the more annoying). The guy's offenses just don't put points on the board unless we're playing a lousy defense having a bad day, and I've been reserved to the notion that no amount of talent acquired will be enough.

Having Santonio Holmes on the roster is not a problem.

This.

Watching the game on Monday, I'm really starting to get Serphnx's point about this team not running routes. The plays designs themselves look so bad, then you have the fact that there was literally no gameplan whatsoever.

Norv Turner in 2011 please.

[tkiss24]

See I think Keller and Edwards were an AWESOME combo. Edwards can run the same slants that Holmes is now getting and he was hard to bring down! Yes holmes is fast as **** but if he gets caught he's goin down, Keller would bowl guys over. And Edwards, I just think this guy has such potential to be a GREAT WR for us and he was headed in that direction. Once Sanchez gets the fade pass down, he will be deadly in the redzone.

Edwards has hands of stone man, I know he got hit while in the air catching a 3rd down ball, but you have to come down with it. Holmes has as much, if not more potential, for us as Edwards.

[Green DNA]

Interesting point regarding the offense since Holmes arrived. But I wouldn't blame Holmes for it. The problem is with

(a) an OC who doesn't know how to scheme for everyone

(b) a QB who doesn't know how to distribute the ball as well as a veteran

(c) the OL not giving the QB a ton of time

(d) an OC who doesn't account for (c) when dialing up plays - leaving the team with deep routes not attempted, checkdowns, and once in a while Holmes on a quick pass if he's open

(e) a HC who's sitting idly by while all this is going on, unable to aid in intervening beyond the 3 traffic light colors

(f) back to the OC, who won't let the QB develop a rhythm. Lets LT run up the gut for 3 plays in a row but as soon as a WR catches a pass he comes off the field. Not to mention - last night notwithstanding - the percentage of times the wildcat is incorporated that occur just as Sanchez might be getting into a rhythm.

(g) at times when our OC isn't making stupid calls, and these guys are getting open, that's too-often coincided with when Sanchez turns into the accuracy of Kellen Clemens minus the arm strength.

(h) the defense - pass defense in particular - is just not playing well of late.

Among the OC, HC, and QB - they don't seem to have a feel for the game on offense. It's not just what you call, but when you call it. The only one I'm absolving somewhat is Sanchez because he's just a 24 year-old kid with very little experience. But we don't get spotted a FG because Sanchez is young.

Outside of half a non-injured season of Brett Favre, our offense under BS has generally been mediocre even when it's firing on all cylinders. At some point the rationalization for what Schottenheimer schemes or doesn't scheme has to go out the window and you judge the offense by its production: namely, how many points we're scoring. They are poorly coached on offense. No matter what he knows or doesn't, how smart or stupid he is, however good or bad a play is called in hindsight, whatever nice or not-nice things players or coaches say about him, it doesn't matter in the end because we aren't scoring enough points. Paul Hackett, I'm sure, knew more about offense than most people who have been in the league and there's a long, long line of players who gushed about how brilliant the guy was. And in the end he was still a lousy OC. So is Schottenheimer.

When we looked at the team on paper on offense months ago, the question was how any defense was going to be able to account for a (generally) solid OL plus Holmes plus Edwards plus Keller plus Greene or LT. And these clowns can't score a single TD against a good defense. We've scored what, 2 touchdowns in the first quarter in 11 games and none since Oct 3rd against the friggin' Bills (which makes deferring opening kickoffs all the more annoying). The guy's offenses just don't put points on the board unless we're playing a lousy defense having a bad day, and I've been reserved to the notion that no amount of talent acquired will be enough.

Having Santonio Holmes on the roster is not a problem.

Repped. The number don't lie. On paper, this offense looks unstoppable, on the field they look inept. the one thing that amazes me every week is when the Jets play a team that has been getting gashed, either on the ground or through the air. Do we attack that weakness and make the other team stop the bleeding or have all of these teams somehow magically fixed this weakness during the week leading up to the Jets game? This happens time after time and I blame Schotty. I also blame Rex for not putting his shoe up Schotty's a$$ and telling him what he would like to see on Sunday.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Learning how to use the talent is the OC and QB's job. Failure to do so is on both of them.

Keller needs to be taken to task more. He flat out just gives up on plays. He's way too talented to let that happen.

[chibucks]

Interesting point regarding the offense since Holmes arrived. But I wouldn't blame Holmes for it. The problem is with

(a) an OC who doesn't know how to scheme for everyone

(b) a QB who doesn't know how to distribute the ball as well as a veteran

(c) the OL not giving the QB a ton of time

(d) an OC who doesn't account for (c) when dialing up plays - leaving the team with deep routes not attempted, checkdowns, and once in a while Holmes on a quick pass if he's open

(e) a HC who's sitting idly by while all this is going on, unable to aid in intervening beyond the 3 traffic light colors

(f) back to the OC, who won't let the QB develop a rhythm. Lets LT run up the gut for 3 plays in a row but as soon as a WR catches a pass he comes off the field. Not to mention - last night notwithstanding - the percentage of times the wildcat is incorporated that occur just as Sanchez might be getting into a rhythm.

(g) at times when our OC isn't making stupid calls, and these guys are getting open, that's too-often coincided with when Sanchez turns into the accuracy of Kellen Clemens minus the arm strength.

(h) the defense - pass defense in particular - is just not playing well of late.

Among the OC, HC, and QB - they don't seem to have a feel for the game on offense. It's not just what you call, but when you call it. The only one I'm absolving somewhat is Sanchez because he's just a 24 year-old kid with very little experience. But we don't get spotted a FG because Sanchez is young.

definitely agreed... i think there's going to be an adjustment period as well with sanchez because he's thinking too much now as to who to get the ball to... too many options and i think (from my own opinion) that he's the type that likes to distribute the ball versus going to the hot hand or the mismatch... hopefully he adjusts quick. :\

[Matt39]

Edwards has hands of stone man, I know he got hit while in the air catching a 3rd down ball, but you have to come down with it. Holmes has as much, if not more potential, for us as Edwards.

He didnt even have to jump for that ball. That's his reaction though for a lot of passes. Jump ad try to catch it with his midsection.

[Integrity28]

Having Santonio Holmes on the roster is not a problem.

This.

It amazes me that Jets fans will ponder getting rid of one of the best WRs in football, easily the best WR the Jets have had since Chrebet and Keyshawn, but then these same Jets fan flip the **** out if the team parts ways with a guy like Brett Ratliff.

Sometimes I think we get what we deserve with this team.

[tkiss24]

This.

It amazes me that Jets fans will ponder getting rid of one of the best WRs in football, easily the best WR the Jets have had since Chrebet and Keyshawn, but then these same Jets fan flip the **** out if the team parts ways with a guy like Brett Ratliff.

Sometimes I think we get what we deserve with this team.

Great point. Santonio is probably the most talented offensive player we've had in the last 20 years and he's the problem????

[The Crusher]

I was thinking about the future of the Jets driving into work and realized I would be fine if we didn't resign either of these two guys. I rather invest in a new RT and another TE (I like the Pat's forumla). What good is a top 10 D with a stale offense. We need a grassroots approach and have a young offense work in unison and players that appreciate the game and WANT to be on the field regardless of touches and big plays.

I hate the man but BB figured out something good this year with the release of Moss.

What? Cotchery #1, Smith #2, and .... ?

[stoicsentry]

What? Cotchery #1, Smith #2, and .... ?

Smith is a free agent too. Cotchery will be your #1 to stretch the field, Turner #2, #3 well we put Keller in the slot. Damn, we're screwed.

[The Crusher]

Smith is a free agent too. Cotchery will be your #1 to stretch the field, Turner #2, #3 well we put Keller in the slot. Damn, we're screwed.

Blackout will be very happy. Rest of us, not so much.