Josh Freeman

[slats]

I think both QB's will be good, however i think Freeman will be great when all is said and done. The other concerning item is everytime Sanchez gets hit, we all hold our breath, with Freeman no such worries.

I don't get the we all hold our breath thing. I think the guy has demonstrated himself to be pretty durable. Practically every QB misses a couple games a year. Sanchez missed one last year, and none this year. He's also demonstrated that he's pretty good at avoiding getting hit. If Matt Stafford was our QB, that would be an argument. Just don't see it with Sanchez.

Slats, please tell me you took into account that average QB ratings have jumped, oh, 7.0 points or so since 1985. Completing 55 % of your throws was acceptable then. Not today.

Yeah, but his TD %, int %, yards/attempt, etc., are all comparable. Not just passer rating and comp %. Elway didn't complete over 60% of his passes until 1993. Marino, OBrien, and Kelly all his 60% a couple/few times in that same span. Joe Montana was a consistent 60+% passer for his entire career. Jim Plunkett and Joe Theismann were 60% passers in the 80's. It's not like it wasn't being done.

I put a lot of Sanchez completion percentage problems squarely on the shoulders of Brian Schottenheimer. At the beginning of Sanchez' career, he didn't let him throw until it was 3rd & long, never letting him throw any high percentage passes. This year, he gives him all sorts of difficult patterns to throw. Then one day, Brian says in an interview that he needs to get Mark some easier throws. And then, lo & behold, against two of the leagues better defenses in Pittsburgh and Chicago, he completes over 60% of his throws in back-to-back games.

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be the next Elway (I hope Mark wins his Super Bowls a little earlier in his career), I'm just saying that Freeman having a breakout season doesn't make Mark a bad QB.

[HessStation]

I don't get the we all hold our breath thing. I think the guy has demonstrated himself to be pretty durable. Practically every QB misses a couple games a year. Sanchez missed one last year, and none this year. He's also demonstrated that he's pretty good at avoiding getting hit. If Matt Stafford was our QB, that would be an argument. Just don't see it with Sanchez.

Yeah, but his TD %, int %, yards/attempt, etc., are all comparable. Not just passer rating and comp %. Elway didn't complete over 60% of his passes until 1993. Marino, OBrien, and Kelly all his 60% a couple/few times in that same span. Joe Montana was a consistent 60+% passer for his entire career. Jim Plunkett and Joe Theismann were 60% passers in the 80's. It's not like it wasn't being done.

I put a lot of Sanchez completion percentage problems squarely on the shoulders of Brian Schottenheimer. At the beginning of Sanchez' career, he didn't let him throw until it was 3rd & long, never letting him throw any high percentage passes. This year, he gives him all sorts of difficult patterns to throw. Then one day, Brian says in an interview that he needs to get Mark some easier throws. And then, lo & behold, against two of the leagues better defenses in Pittsburgh and Chicago, he completes over 60% of his throws in back-to-back games.

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be the next Elway (I hope Mark wins his Super Bowls a little earlier in his career), I'm just saying that Freeman having a breakout season doesn't make Mark a bad QB.

Repped for subtle fire Shotty reference.

[donboyO]

I don't get the we all hold our breath thing. I think the guy has demonstrated himself to be pretty durable. Practically every QB misses a couple games a year. Sanchez missed one last year, and none this year. He's also demonstrated that he's pretty good at avoiding getting hit. If Matt Stafford was our QB, that would be an argument. Just don't see it with Sanchez.

Yeah, but his TD %, int %, yards/attempt, etc., are all comparable. Not just passer rating and comp %. Elway didn't complete over 60% of his passes until 1993. Marino, OBrien, and Kelly all his 60% a couple/few times in that same span. Joe Montana was a consistent 60+% passer for his entire career. Jim Plunkett and Joe Theismann were 60% passers in the 80's. It's not like it wasn't being done.

I put a lot of Sanchez completion percentage problems squarely on the shoulders of Brian Schottenheimer. At the beginning of Sanchez' career, he didn't let him throw until it was 3rd & long, never letting him throw any high percentage passes. This year, he gives him all sorts of difficult patterns to throw. Then one day, Brian says in an interview that he needs to get Mark some easier throws. And then, lo & behold, against two of the leagues better defenses in Pittsburgh and Chicago, he completes over 60% of his throws in back-to-back games.

I'm not saying that Sanchez is going to be the next Elway (I hope Mark wins his Super Bowls a little earlier in his career), I'm just saying that Freeman having a breakout season doesn't make Mark a bad QB.

I hold my breath, not sure what games you are watching, in just 2 years he has knee issues and shoulder issues from all reports. Every sack or hit after run, he does not bounce right up. He is more durable than Stafford for sure, but I have my doubts on how long he will last.

[dbatesman]

I'm just saying that Freeman having a breakout season doesn't make Mark a bad QB.

The point of the discussion is the contrast between the opportunity cost/risk caluclus of trading to #5 for a shrimpy guy with 16 collegiate starts and the opportunity cost/risk calculus of staying put at #17 and taking a rocket-armed behemoth with a ton of tape. That renders irrelevant both Freeman's breakout season and Sanchez's sub-80.0 QB rating, because plenty of people were having this exact argument in April 2009.

[slats]

The point of the discussion is the contrast between the opportunity cost/risk caluclus of trading to #5 for a shrimpy guy with 16 collegiate starts and the opportunity cost/risk calculus of staying put at #17 and taking a rocket-armed behemoth with a ton of tape. That renders irrelevant both Freeman's breakout season and Sanchez's sub-80.0 QB rating, because plenty of people were having this exact argument in April 2009.

I think the discussion at the time was that Sanchez was more NFL ready despite his lack of experience at the time, but that Freeman had the higher ceiling. That's probably still the discussion.

The Bucs traded up a couple spots to grab Freeman, so they probably either would've tried to trade ahead of the QB needy Jets, or the Jets would've had to trade up themselves to get Freeman. Tannenbaum deals. There's no way he would've stayed put if Freeman was his man. I'd complain about the trade up for Sanchez, but it was actually a shrewd deal by Tanny and we moved from #17 to #5 much cheaper than I thought possible.

I didn't want to draft Sanchez at the time, either, and really don't think I'll last as his primary defender. But I've chosen to embrace the QB the Jets fell in love with rather than dwell on hypotheticals. I think Josh Freeman is going to be a very good QB. I think Mark Sanchez might be one, too. I also like how Mark handles the pressure of being a playoff QB in NY, and wonder how many other people could handle that. Not saying Freeman could or couldn't, but I think that has to be taken into account, too.

[Klecko73isGod]

I think the discussion at the time was that Sanchez was more NFL ready despite his lack of experience at the time, but that Freeman had the higher ceiling. That's probably still the discussion.

The Bucs traded up a couple spots to grab Freeman, so they probably either would've tried to trade ahead of the QB needy Jets, or the Jets would've had to trade up themselves to get Freeman. Tannenbaum deals. There's no way he would've stayed put if Freeman was his man. I'd complain about the trade up for Sanchez, but it was actually a shrewd deal by Tanny and we moved from #17 to #5 much cheaper than I thought possible.

I didn't want to draft Sanchez at the time, either, and really don't think I'll last as his primary defender. But I've chosen to embrace the QB the Jets fell in love with rather than dwell on hypotheticals. I think Josh Freeman is going to be a very good QB. I think Mark Sanchez might be one, too. I also like how Mark handles the pressure of being a playoff QB in NY, and wonder how many other people could handle that. Not saying Freeman could or couldn't, but I think that has to be taken into account, too.

I think the maturity factor weighed heavily in Sanchez's favor. I love how people act like the Jets didn't due their due diligence on Freeman. They were thinking QB and were sitting at about the spot Freeman was projected to go. It's downright stupid to think they didn't do their homework on Freeman knowing that was the case.

There was a reason the Jets felt it was worthwhile to trade up to get Sanchez. Earlier in this very thread, someone made a comment about Freeman being spotted at bars late in the evening during game weeks in Tampa, something he would be killed for in NY, especially if he had a bad game.

Sanchez basically lives his job and I love how whenever he is mentioned on Page Six they are quick to point out that he is drinking Coca-Cola when he is spotted at nightclubs or events in Manhattan.

Sanchez is smart enough not to do stupid off field things even if it is something as banal as being a wealthy 24-year-old in a bar at 2:30 in the morning because he seems to get that it could cause him problems.

I think both these guys are going to be very good to great NFL QBs. I'm not sure, however, that Freeman could have handled NY.

It takes a special kind of person to handle being a superstar QB in NY. That's the reason the two NFL franchises in the market have only had one (Joe Namath) between them in 50 years.

[Irish Jet]

The point of the discussion is the contrast between the opportunity cost/risk caluclus of trading to #5 for a shrimpy guy with 16 collegiate starts and the opportunity cost/risk calculus of staying put at #17 and taking a rocket-armed behemoth with a ton of tape. That renders irrelevant both Freeman's breakout season and Sanchez's sub-80.0 QB rating, because plenty of people were having this exact argument in April 2009.

You're wasting your time man, these idiots will never truly understand just how big a loss Brett Ratliff was for the Jets.

[dbatesman]

I think the discussion at the time was that Sanchez was more NFL ready despite his lack of experience at the time, but that Freeman had the higher ceiling. That's probably still the discussion.

But that discussion made no sense, because the only evidence for Sanchez being NFL ready or able to handle adversity or having enough arm or literally anything else was 16 games.

[slats]

But that discussion made no sense, because the only evidence for Sanchez being NFL ready or able to handle adversity or having enough arm or literally anything else was 16 games.

And yet he opened his career going 5-1, putting up pretty decent numbers in the process.

I agree with you about his lack of experience, and cited it frequently at the time. But I guess they liked the fact that he ran a pro offense in maybe the highest profile program in the nation.

[JustInFudge]

And yet he opened his career going 5-1, putting up pretty decent numbers in the process.

I agree with you about his lack of experience, and cited it frequently at the time. But I guess they liked the fact that he ran a pro offense in maybe the highest profile program in the nation.

Who opened their career 5-1?

[Aten]

Who opened their career 5-1?

MATH IS FOR FAGS.

[JustInFudge]

MATH IS FOR FAGS.

Math is the universal language. Which must mean there are a lot of fags in this world.

[serphnx]

I think the maturity factor weighed heavily in Sanchez's favor. I love how people act like the Jets didn't due their due diligence on Freeman. They were thinking QB and were sitting at about the spot Freeman was projected to go. It's downright stupid to think they didn't do their homework on Freeman knowing that was the case.

There was a reason the Jets felt it was worthwhile to trade up to get Sanchez. Earlier in this very thread, someone made a comment about Freeman being spotted at bars late in the evening during game weeks in Tampa, something he would be killed for in NY, especially if he had a bad game.

Sanchez basically lives his job and I love how whenever he is mentioned on Page Six they are quick to point out that he is drinking Coca-Cola when he is spotted at nightclubs or events in Manhattan.

Sanchez is smart enough not to do stupid off field things even if it is something as banal as being a wealthy 24-year-old in a bar at 2:30 in the morning because he seems to get that it could cause him problems.

I think both these guys are going to be very good to great NFL QBs. I'm not sure, however, that Freeman could have handled NY.

It takes a special kind of person to handle being a superstar QB in NY. That's the reason the two NFL franchises in the market have only had one (Joe Namath) between them in 50 years.

Excellent post. But it is lost on these guys.

[T0mShane]

Everybody always wants the food that's on the other guy's plate. But when that food is a giant, BB-throwing black man your food jealousy is probably justified.

[JustInFudge]

Excellent post. But it is lost on these guys.

But its not. Its moronic.

He's arguing that Freeman couldnt handle NYC because he's been seen at bars drinking in Tampa past midnight. Whereas, Mark has been seen drinking coca-cola when hes seen out. Where he gets these "reports", is anyone's guess. Especially considering there are pictures of Mark Sanchez hammered during the season last year and someone on this very site saw him out after a loss so bombed he couldnt even stand.

This idea, that Freeman cant handle NY is ridiculous. Not because I know Freeman so well and know he can, but because nobody on this site knows him well enough to make that justification. And just because Mark has nice acumen and is very articulate, doesnt make him more qualified to handle the city.

Then he goes on to say how it takes a special person to be a superstar in NY. And that Sanchez is more mature and better suited to handle the NY life. Only to site that there has only been one superstar QB in NY Football history, Joe Namath. You know, because Joe Namath never went out and partied in the city.

[Klecko73isGod]

But its not. Its moronic.

He's arguing that Freeman couldnt handle NYC because he's been seen at bars drinking in Tampa past midnight. Whereas, Mark has been seen drinking coca-cola when hes seen out. Where he gets these "reports", is anyone's guess. Especially considering there are pictures of Mark Sanchez hammered during the season last year and someone on this very site saw him out after a loss so bombed he couldnt even stand.This idea, that Freeman cant handle NY is ridiculous. Not because I know Freeman so well and know he can, but because nobody on this site knows him well enough to make that justification. And just because Mark has nice acumen and is very articulate, doesnt make him more qualified to handle the city.

Then he goes on to say how it takes a special person to be a superstar in NY. And that Sanchez is more mature and better suited to handle the NY life. Only to site that there has only been one superstar QB in NY Football history, Joe Namath. You know, because Joe Namath never went out and partied in the city.

Link? Because I just did a Google search for "Mark Sanchez drunk" after reading your post and it didn't produce any results that included pictures of Mark Sanchez being drunk. Stop making sh*t up.

The reports of Sanchez drinking coke at bars in NY have appeared numerous times in the NY Post. Try reading a newspaper every once in a while. You can pick up the Post at the Publix on Beach and San Pablo.

This is a different time than when Joe came into the league. Back then his lifestyle was celebrated. Now it would be vilified and you know it.

What do you think the Jets based their decision on Steve? You think it came down to who Woody thought was better looking? Take your head out of your a$$.

[Aten]

Link? Because I just did a Google search for "Mark Sanchez drunk" after reading your post and it didn't produce any results that included pictures of Mark Sanchez being drunk. Stop making sh*t up.

"Klecko is not retarded" doesn't return any results either.

[Klecko73isGod]

"Klecko is not retarded" doesn't return any results either.

Funny, neither did "Aten is a friendless douchebag." Go figure.

[Klecko73isGod]

"Klecko is not retarded" doesn't return any results either.

Safe to assume that since your initial response was a personal attack that you have no valid counterpoint?

Thought so.

[JustInFudge]

Link? Because I just did a Google search for "Mark Sanchez drunk" after reading your post and it didn't produce any results that included pictures of Mark Sanchez being drunk. Stop making sh*t up.

The reports of Sanchez drinking coke at bars in NY have appeared numerous times in the NY Post. Try reading a newspaper every once in a while. You can pick up the Post at the Publix on Beach and San Pablo.

This is a different time than when Joe came into the league. Back then his lifestyle was celebrated. Now it would be vilified and you know it.

What do you think the Jets based their decision on Steve? You think it came down to who Woody thought was better looking? Take your head out of your a$$.

Show me links to these Freeman reports you claim. I just did a google search "Josh Freeman drunk" I saw nothing. However, apparently Josh has defended his HC saying its not Morris's fault his teammates are getting into trouble. No mention of the QB who is much better than Mark Sanchez getting in trouble or out at the bars like the bull sh*t you are claiming. You're making sh*t up Joseph.

I dont know who started the thread about Sanchez being out wasted, but it was here at JN. So drunk he couldnt stand after a loss last season. And there are pictures floating around with Mark clearly intoxicated wearing a gay shirt (go figure) with his arms around dudes with drinks in hand. Just cant find it right now because of limited access to the web at work.

Your only defense to why the Jets selected the lesser QB is because Sanchez is more mature and a perfect player to handle NY, yet this is the same dude that raped a bitch in college. All the venom you spew toward Big Rape and your very own sweetheart rapes bitches too.

And if the era of Football when Joe played was so different, then why use that as an example?

/head out of a$$

[Aten]

Safe to assume that since your initial response was a personal attack that you have no valid counterpoint?

I'm not entirely sure how using the proposition that 'Klecko is not retarded' as an example of how something can be both true and Googleproof is either a personal attack or not a valid counterpoint, but fine. You are retarded. Now we can be friends again.

[Klecko73isGod]

Show me links to these Freeman reports you claim. I just did a google search "Josh Freeman drunk" I saw nothing. However, apparently Josh has defended his HC saying its not Morris's fault his teammates are getting into trouble. No mention of the QB who is much better than Mark Sanchez getting in trouble or out at the bars like the bull sh*t you are claiming. You're making sh*t up Joseph.

It was stated earlier in this thread. Haven't been reading it? You started the damn thing.

I dont know who started the thread about Sanchez being out wasted, but it was here at JN. So drunk he couldnt stand after a loss last season. And there are pictures floating around with Mark clearly intoxicated wearing a gay shirt (go figure) with his arms around dudes with drinks in hand. Just cant find it right now because of limited access to the web at work.

If such a thread existed I am certain the Sanchez haters, such as yourself, wouldn't have let it die.

Your only defense to why the Jets selected the lesser QB is because Sanchez is more mature and a perfect player to handle NY, yet this is the same dude that raped a bitch in college. All the venom you spew toward Big Rape and your very own sweetheart rapes bitches too.

The sexual assault charge against Sanchez was BS and everybody knows it.

And if the era of Football when Joe played was so different, then why use that as an example?

I named Joe Namath as the only superstar QB to play for NY team in the last 50 years. The context was immaterial as I was not making any comparison to anyone currently playing football in NY, only the obvious recognition that if you are willing to trade up 12 spots in the draft for a QB you are clearly hoping he becomes one.

You still haven't answered my questions. Do you really think the Jets didn't do their due diligence on Freeman? Why do you think they chose Sanchez over Freeman?

[Klecko73isGod]

I'm not entirely sure how using the proposition that 'Klecko is not retarded' as an example of how something can be both true and Googleproof is either a personal attack or not a valid counterpoint, but fine. You are retarded. Now we can be friends again.

Can we?

[dbatesman]

Where exactly is this drunk Freeman link? I searched the topic for "drunk," "club," "clubs," "bar," and "bars" and got nothing but the pap smears on this page.

[JustInFudge]

It was stated earlier in this thread. Haven't been reading it? You started the damn thing.

If such a thread existed I am certain the Sanchez haters, such as yourself, wouldn't have let it die.

The sexual assault charge against Sanchez was BS and everybody knows it.

I named Joe Namath as the only superstar QB to play for NY team in the last 50 years. The context was immaterial as I was not making any comparison to anyone currently playing football in NY, only the obvious recognition that if you are willing to trade up 12 spots in the draft for a QB you are clearly hoping he becomes one.

You still haven't answered my questions. Do you really think the Jets didn't do their due diligence on Freeman? Why do you think they chose Sanchez over Freeman?

I will try to find the thread. I dont know that Sanchez didnt rape a bitch. When you dropped the name, the comparison was made.

Does it really matter if the Jets did their due diligence? Its the god damn Jets. The same team that drafted Vernon ******* Gholston 6th overall and traded up for sh*tty Dustin Keller when we needed a WR with Desean Jackson still on the board...all in the same 1st round.

And WTF does Tanny or Rex know about drafting a QB? Maybe they consulted everyone's favorite Schitty Jr? Everyone's favorite scapegoat for Sanchez's growth probably had the most influence on the pick. How bout that for a mind ****? What would JN's reaction be then.

Why do I think they took the little southern cali mexi model homo with little college experience over a monster in every sense of the word, who in one season throwing to doodoo has as almost as many passing TD as Sanchez does for his career, is beyond me. I have no idea.

I can tell you this. It had nothing to do with if they thought Josh Freeman could handle NYC because there were reports that he liked to drink after midnight. Thats just ridiculous. They traded up to the 5th spot because they thought the model was the better talent, not because he is more mature. And if that was the logic, than thats more ridiculous than thinking he was the better talent.

[Matt39]

I will try to find the thread. I dont know that Sanchez didnt rape a bitch. When you dropped the name, the comparison was made.

Does it really matter if the Jets did their due diligence? Its the god damn Jets. The same team that drafted Vernon ******* Gholston 6th overall and traded up for sh*tty Dustin Keller when we needed a WR with Desean Jackson still on the board...all in the same 1st round.

And WTF does Tanny or Rex know about drafting a QB? Maybe they consulted everyone's favorite Schitty Jr? Everyone's favorite scapegoat for Sanchez's growth probably had the most influence on the pick. How bout that for a mind ****? What would JN's reaction be then.

Why do I think they took the little southern cali mexi model homo with little college experience over a monster in every sense of the word, who in one season throwing to doodoo has as almost as many passing TD as Sanchez does for his career, is beyond me. I have no idea.

I can tell you this. It had nothing to do with if they thought Josh Freeman could handle NYC because there were reports that he liked to drink after midnight. Thats just ridiculous. They traded up to the 5th spot because they thought the model was the better talent, not because he is more mature. And if that was there logic, than thats more ridiculous than thinking he was the better talent.

Freeman had a pretty bad junior year if memory serves correctly. There was a ton of boom/bust potential with him surrounding the draft. The Jamarcus Russell comparisons were being made. Sanchez was the hot commodity at the time with his huge Rose Bowl yada yada.

All 3 QB's had high grades. I'd rather have Freeman, though. I'm not going to kill the Jets for drafting Sanchez either. He hasnt been nearly as bad this year as you guys want him to be it seems.

[T0mShane]

One question about Sanchez "handling" New York: How can we tell, exactly? He actually has worse stats at home than away and he's had some of his most catastrophic games here wherein he's hung his head and nearly wept. What is this "handling" you speak of?

[Matt39]

One question about Sanchez "handling" New York: How can we tell, exactly? He actually has worse stats at home than away and he's had some of his most catastrophic games here wherein he's hung his head and nearly wept. What is this "handling" you speak of?

He doesnt have AIDS yet. I think that fits the "handling NY" part.

[JustInFudge]

Freeman had a pretty bad junior year if memory serves correctly. There was a ton of boom/bust potential with him surrounding the draft. The Jamarcus Russell comparisons were being made. Sanchez was the hot commodity at the time with his huge Rose Bowl yada yada.

All 3 QB's had high grades. I'd rather have Freeman, though. I'm not going to kill the Jets for drafting Sanchez either. He hasnt been nearly as bad this year as you guys want him to be it seems.

He only statistically had a bad year his freshman season. His team was awful, which made his performances more impressive ala Jay Cutler at Vandy. Not like USC who was playing varsity ball in in a jv conference.

[T0mShane]

He hasnt been nearly as bad this year as you guys want him to be it seems.

Severe O'Brien-Marino Complex in effect, Matt. It simply has to LOOK LIKE somebody picked the better QB with the stronger arm over the scrawny (if decent) gamer-type QB, and those anxieties will come out full-force in everyone who witnessed that era.

[JustInFudge]

One question about Sanchez "handling" New York: How can we tell, exactly? He actually has worse stats at home than away and he's had some of his most catastrophic games here wherein he's hung his head and nearly wept. What is this "handling" you speak of?

In the stupidity of this logic and the frustration that I'm actually debating whether that was a factor in the Jets decision, I forgot to bring this up in one of my posts. Does Josh Freeman have fines to help handle his body language or has he been spotted eating hot dogs on the sidelines?

[T0mShane]

He doesnt have AIDS yet. I think that fits the "handling NY" part.

FTW!

[Matt39]

He only statistically had a bad year his freshman season. His team was awful, which made his performances more impressive ala Jay Cutler at Vandy. Not like USC who was playing varsity ball in in a jv conference.

Pac 10 sucks, true, but these guys Sanchez was playing with on offense at USC have amounted to didly poo in the pros.

[T0mShane]

In the stupidity of this logic and the frustration that I'm actually debating whether that was a factor in the Jets decision, I forgot to bring this up in one of my posts. Does Josh Freeman have fines to help handle his body language or has he been spotted eating hot dogs on the sidelines?

...or read an angered statement scribbled on a piece of paper that he just found in the locker room?

[Matt39]

Severe O'Brien-Marino Complex in effect, Matt. It simply has to LOOK LIKE somebody picked the better QB with the stronger arm over the scrawny (if decent) gamer-type QB, and those anxieties will come out full-force in everyone who witnessed that era.

True, true...I hear ya Tom. But lets not act like Super Josh Freeman didnt lose to Drew Stanton, AT HOME, in a must win game.

That being said, Sanchez looks like a place kicker and it does seem like only a matter of time before he's snapped in half.