Rex says D has no swagger.

[SenorGato]

That's my whole point. Most people would not think he is a good pass rusher because doesn't have a ton of sacks, although he has had his share. He gets a lot of pressures relative to the amount of times they rush him. If you have the Chicago game recorded, just go back and watch the first half. They sent him more than usual. Then tell me who on the Jets is a better pass rushing option.

Is this actually true or do you just feel it to be true? In the Chicago game, was he really sent more than usual, or did he just beat a garbage O-line more than usual as he should?

Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, David Harris, Ellis, Thomas....those are the 5 best pass rushers in order IMO. The problem is that none of these guys are having a good year.

[DMaynard]

Is this actually true or do you just feel it to be true? In the Chicago game, was he really sent more than usual, or did he just beat a garbage O-line more than usual as he should?

Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, David Harris, Ellis, Thomas....those are the 5 best pass rushers in order IMO. The problem is that none of these guys are having a good year.

No, unlike some posters with agendas, I watch and draw conclusions vs pretending to see what I wish to see. For example. Everyone is down on our safeties, as they should be. But Brodney Pool actually played a pretty good game. Yet, no one mentions that. It would not be the bandwagon thing to do.

If you watch the first half, they blitzed Harris about 7 or 8 times. He had, by my count, 3 or 4 pressures. That is pretty darn good. A few times they had him kind of shadowing around the LOS, neither rushing or dropping back in coverage. I don't count those. Now, if you want to suddenly believe that the division winning Bears have a garbage o-line to support your argument, I rest my case.

[DMaynard]

Is this actually true or do you just feel it to be true? In the Chicago game, was he really sent more than usual, or did he just beat a garbage O-line more than usual as he should?

Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, David Harris, Ellis, Thomas....those are the 5 best pass rushers in order IMO. The problem is that none of these guys are having a good year.

As far as Pace and Scott are concerned, I'd love to have the time to go back and count how many times this year they have rushed the passer, and then how many pressures/sacks they have. It would be a very low percentage.

[SenorGato]

No, unlike some posters with agendas, I watch and draw conclusions vs pretending to see what I wish to see. For example. Everyone is down on our safeties, as they should be. But Brodney Pool actually played a pretty good game. Yet, no one mentions that. It would not be the bandwagon thing to do.

If you watch the first half, they blitzed Harris about 7 or 8 times. He had, by my count, 3 or 4 pressures. That is pretty darn good. A few times they had him kind of shadowing around the LOS, neither rushing or dropping back in coverage. I don't count those. Now, if you want to suddenly believe that the division winning Bears have a garbage o-line to support your argument, I rest my case.

So...concrete numbers?

Agreed that Pool has played well. His problem is that he doesn't catch the ball when it hits him in his hands, but he's been in position often when he's been healthy and on the field.

As far as Pace and Scott are concerned, I'd love to have the time to go back and count how many times this year they have rushed the passer, and then how many pressures/sacks they have. It would be a very low percentage

It'd be alot more conclusive if there was a number.

As a whole, this D has sucked at rushing the passer.

[bitonti]

As a whole, this D has sucked at rushing the passer.

ive been having this debate on another board

according to FootballOutsiders the Jets pass rush is 6.8% effective, exactly the same stat as 2009. More sacks this year, less hurries.

The safeties are the problem, the pass rush is basically the same.

[DMaynard]

It'd be alot more conclusive if there was a number.

As a whole, this D has sucked at rushing the passer.

Sorry, I don't have the time to go back and count the entire season. But your second statement is true and pretty much sums up the primary rushers (Pace, Thomas, Ellis, Taylor) without the details.

[DMaynard]

ive been having this debate on another board

according to FootballOutsiders the Jets pass rush is 6.8% effective, exactly the same stat as 2009. More sacks this year, less hurries.

The safeties are the problem, the pass rush is basically the same.

That is hard to believe. It seemed last year's pass rush produced a lot more hurries. It may be that we were getting a good rush in the first few games and that established the Rex mystique in our minds. No doubt that it sucks this year along with the safety play.

[#27TheDominator]

That's my whole point. Most people would not think he is a good pass rusher because doesn't have a ton of sacks, although he has had his share. He gets a lot of pressures relative to the amount of times they rush him. If you have the Chicago game recorded, just go back and watch the first half. They sent him more than usual. Then tell me who on the Jets is a better pass rushing option.

You and I have had this discussion and basically agree to disagree. I would like to add to points though.

First, I feel that Harris success rushing, such as it is, comes from the fact that he goes hard. He hits the hole. If there is a blocker he tries to blow him up. IMO, he has no real rush moves and a block usually takes him out, but he does not give up. I think the coaches should try to get Gholston to emulate him because Gholston's #1 problem is a lack of doing things all out, but that horse has probably left the barn.

Second, part of the reason for those "pressures" in the Chicago first half may have come from him going on his own. There was at least play where he rushed and Forte faked a block and then walked out for an EASY catch. The Bears may simply have been letting him come. That's Mike Martz MO anyway.

Is this actually true or do you just feel it to be true? In the Chicago game, was he really sent more than usual, or did he just beat a garbage O-line more than usual as he should?

Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, David Harris, Ellis, Thomas....those are the 5 best pass rushers in order IMO. The problem is that none of these guys are having a good year.

Way off IMO. Taylor is the best one. Pace had been the best, but he hasn't been bringing much to the table. Thomas is borderline terrible rushing the passer. Scott is like Harris, but faster.

[SenorGato]

You and I have had this discussion and basically agree to disagree. I would like to add to points though.

First, I feel that Harris success rushing, such as it is, comes from the fact that he goes hard. He hits the hole. If there is a blocker he tries to blow him up. IMO, he has no real rush moves and a block usually takes him out, but he does not give up. I think the coaches should try to get Gholston to emulate him because Gholston's #1 problem is a lack of doing things all out, but that horse has probably left the barn.

Second, part of the reason for those "pressures" in the Chicago first half may have come from him going on his own. There was at least play where he rushed and Forte faked a block and then walked out for an EASY catch. The Bears may simply have been letting him come. That's Mike Martz MO anyway.

Way off IMO. Taylor is the best one. Pace had been the best, but he hasn't been bringing much to the table. Thomas is borderline terrible rushing the passer. Scott is like Harris, but faster.

I forgot about Taylor. He is the best on the team.

[#27TheDominator]

I forgot about Taylor. He is the best on the team.

Yep and if it were three or four years ago that would be fine.

[SenorGato]

ive been having this debate on another board

according to FootballOutsiders the Jets pass rush is 6.8% effective, exactly the same stat as 2009. More sacks this year, less hurries.

The safeties are the problem, the pass rush is basically the same.

I don't disagree that the safeties suck. They most certainly do.

The LB corps is good, but no one is having as good a year as last year. Adding speed and athleticism would help.

I still say rebuild the DL and everything would look better.