probowl

[PatriotReign37]

Boy your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired.

From the link you posted:

Based on what I read above, Schiano installed a new defense at Rutgers based on the Pats defense after consulting with Belichick.

How do you go from that to "Belichick helped Schiano install a hybrid of the NE defense?" By wording it the way you have, you make it sound like Belichick has been spending time in Piscataway running film sessions for coaches and players when that simply isn't close to being the case.

Look at Mcourty. Hes going to be better than Revis.

[Klecko73isGod]

Look at Mcourty. Hes going to be better than Revis.

That's meaningless in the conversation at hand. McCourty being better than Revis has nothing to do with whether or not Belichick had anything to do with installing Rutger's defense.

Your debating skills are terrible.

[PatriotReign37]

Don't cherry pick my posts son.

Manning has 638 pass attempts because if he didn't his team would have two wins right now.

You conveniently left out the fact that Manning will have almost 700 pass attempts after game 16.

Answer me this: how many months are you going to avoid JN for when the Pats get blasted out of the playoffs short of the SB?

Youre predicting a NE loss? Sweet.

[Klecko73isGod]

You conveniently left out the fact that Manning will have almost 700 pass attempts after game 16.

Youre predicting a NE loss? Sweet.

Its funny that you bring up Manning's pass attempt totals as some kind of ace in the hole since despite that he is still completing a slightly higher percentage of his passes than Tom Brady.

[PatriotReign37]

That's meaningless in the conversation at hand. McCourty being better than Revis has nothing to do with whether or not Belichick had anything to do with installing Rutger's defense.

Your debating skills are terrible.

Unreal.

This is worse than you arguing that BB is a bad HC. Give it up.

[Klecko73isGod]

Unreal.

This is worse than you arguing that BB is a bad HC. Give it up.

You continue to make no sense.

[PatriotReign37]

Its funny that you bring up Manning's pass attempt totals as some kind of ace in the hole since despite that he is still completing a slightly higher percentage of his passes than Tom Brady.

Whats more comical is your proclaiming that Manning is the best in the NFL and its not even close.

If its not close, then how is Manning completion % slightly higher? Funny. BTW, Brady lost Randy Moss early in the season

[Klecko73isGod]

Whats more comical is your proclaiming that Manning is the best in the NFL and its not even close.

If its not close, then how is Manning completion % slightly higher? Funny. BTW, Brady lost Randy Moss early in the season

Wow you're stupid.

Manning has missed Anthony Gonzalez for 13 games, Dallas Clark for nine games, Joseph Addai for eight, Austin Collie for six, Pierre Garcon for two.

He has at least three offensive linemen playing out of position. And a defense that once you get past Freeney and Mathis basically becomes non-existent.

Yet he is on the verge of winning his division and winning 10 games for the 900th straight year.

You argued that Moss was holding the Pats back. You can't argue now that losing him hampered Brady, especially when you've been proven right. This is how stupid you are.

Remember all those cries from Pats fans whined that Brady never had the weapons that Manning did and that Manning could never do it without great receivers around him? You were wrong as usual.

Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brady.

And its not close.

[Garb]

Whats more comical is your proclaiming that Manning is the best in the NFL and its not even close.

If its not close, then how is Manning completion % slightly higher? Funny. BTW, Brady lost Randy Moss early in the season

...how many inteceptions does Manning have this year? And spare me the "he has sh*t to throw to" argument. Does Reche Calwell ring a bell?

Tom Brady - the player, the legend.

[ZachEY]

After Brady wins his 4th ring in a few weeks, Manning will always be considered second fiddle.

Not that I think you're even remotely capable of giving an honest answer, but where do you think the Colts would be this season if Brady was their QB? And where do you think the Pats would be if Manning was their QB?

[KSJets]

Tom Brady - the player, the cheater.

Fixed your post for you, Garbage.

[ZachEY]

...how many inteceptions does Manning have this year? And spare me the "he has sh*t to throw to" argument. Does Reche Calwell ring a bell?

Tom Brady - the player, the legend.

Manning has traditionally had better targets around him than Brady.

That said, Manning's targets this year are the worst either has ever had, by a tremendous margin. He also has no running game.

[JiFtheOracle]

Brady >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manning.

Cant believe this is still an argument.

[PatriotReign37]

Wow you're stupid.

Manning has missed Anthony Gonzalez for 13 games, Dallas Clark for nine games, Joseph Addai for eight, Austin Collie for six, Pierre Garcon for two.

He has at least three offensive linemen playing out of position. And a defense that once you get past Freeney and Mathis basically becomes non-existent.

Yet he is on the verge of winning his division and winning 10 games for the 900th straight year.

They dont call you the Klecktard for nothing.

Gonzalez was on IR all last season doofus. Big deal if hes not playing. Indy had a lousy run game last season. You dont mention that HOF WR Reggie Wayne is still playing.

Brady won the Division in 2009 with a mediocre run game, Moss (HOF) and Welker coming off reconstructive knee surgery.

You argued that Moss was holding the Pats back. You can't argue now that losing him hampered Brady, especially when you've been proven right. This is how stupid you are.

When it come to stupidity, I could never hold a candle to you. Youre Moss's biggest fan on JN, so I baited you with the Moss comment and reeled you in. Randy Moss was NEs whole offense according to you.

Dude, it's not like they had some big offensive explosion. They only gained 265 total yards and less than 160 through the air. Big special teams plays were the reason they won.

There is no way losing Moss helps the Pats on the field.

Way!

Remember all those cries from Pats fans whined that Brady never had the weapons that Manning did and that Manning could never do it without great receivers around him? You were wrong as usual.

Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brady.

And its not close.

What else is new? All youre predictions and observations always miss the target by a mile. But at least you got the score right on this one Klecktard!

And the next Jets-Pats game just turned into an a$$ whuppin' of monumental proportions:

Jets 45

Pats 3 (if they're lucky.)

[Garb]

Manning has traditionally had better targets around him than Brady.

That said, Manning's targets this year are the worst either has ever had, by a tremendous margin. He also has no running game.

Take a look at the Pats' 2006 roster and get back to me. The no running game argument is pretty laughable since piror to this year, and since Dillon, they have not had an actual run game.

Most Jets fans just hate Brady and I can't say I blame you all.

[shawn306]

BBs oldest son goes to Rutgers and BB helped Schiano install a hybrid of the NE defense.

Whether or not you choose to believe that is certainly your choice.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/Bill-Belichick/biography

Well if he did than Schiano did a sh!tty job maintaining it.

[ZachEY]

Take a look at the Pats' 2006 roster and get back to me. The no running game argument is pretty laughable since piror to this year, and since Dillon, they have not had an actual run game.

Most Jets fans just hate Brady and I can't say I blame you all.

I don't hate Brady at all. Well, maybe that's not true. But that doesn't mean I can't be objective in my judgement.

The Pats 2006 Roster was definitely not great on offense. However, if I'm not mistaken, they were also healthier than this years Colts, and therefore, Brady had the luxury of his guys. Manning has still had Wayne, but has lost just about everyone else. Brady has also, with the exception of this year, when he's got a ton of weapons on offense, had a better defense and team. To me, on the current rosters, the Colts without Manning are in competition with the Panthers for the #1 overall pick. The Patriots without Brady are probably a 9 win team or so, just on the outside looking in to the playoffs.

PS, Most Pats fans just hate Manning.

[JiFtheOracle]

Take a look at the Pats' 2006 roster and get back to me. The no running game argument is pretty laughable since piror to this year, and since Dillon, they have not had an actual run game.

Most Jets fans just hate Brady and I can't say I blame you all.

I'd take Brady over Manning any day of the week. Always have. I like winners, not chokers. Manning has always had the better talent around him IMO Faulk, James, Harrison, Wayne, Pollard, Clark, Stokley, Garcon, Addai...dont see how anyone can argue that...but the myth the Patriots never had a running game is precisely that, a myth.

You said, 2006 - 12th overall rushing...not bad. They had like 3 seasons in the Brady era that they werent a top 10/15 running game in the NFL. Now the years they fell out of that range, they were one of the worst in the league...but Brady has always had some type of running game.

And the only year they didnt have a running game but still were successful was 2003. Brady was good, not great, but that defense was incredible.

[HessStation]

Mcourty what a stud.

Made the Pro Bowl in his rookie season.

He's legit. Hard to tell with all the blowouts but its looked as if Butler is coming along a little better now too, no?

[HessStation]

Brady >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manning.

Cant believe this is still an argument.

I used to think Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brady but now I'm like Manning = Brady

[T0mShane]

Hey, if you could snap your fingers and replace Sanchez with EITHER Brady or Manning with the sole objective being to win the Super Bowl, which guy do you take?

IMO, gotta be Brady, simply because he always shows up in big spots. When you start closing the vise, Manning is unquestionably the one that will crack first.

[PatriotReign37]

He's legit. Hard to tell with all the blowouts but its looked as if Butler is coming along a little better now too, no?

Im no fan of Butler.

He still doesnt turn his head back for the ball. He made some half hearted attempts vs Buffalo that I thought were PI.Ive seen far less flagged by other officiating crews this season. I really hope NE drafts another CB because Im not counting on Butler.

[donboyO]

Hey, if you could snap your fingers and replace Sanchez with EITHER Brady or Manning with the sole objective being to win the Super Bowl, which guy do you take?

IMO, gotta be Brady, simply because he always shows up in big spots. When you start closing the vise, Manning is unquestionably the one that will crack first.

Give both of them great protection I take Manning, Brady seems to crumble more when protection is not there, case and point Giants SB

[Garb]

I don't hate Brady at all. Well, maybe that's not true. But that doesn't mean I can't be objective in my judgement.

The Pats 2006 Roster was definitely not great on offense. However, if I'm not mistaken, they were also healthier than this years Colts, and therefore, Brady had the luxury of his guys. Manning has still had Wayne, but has lost just about everyone else. Brady has also, with the exception of this year, when he's got a ton of weapons on offense, had a better defense and team. To me, on the current rosters, the Colts without Manning are in competition with the Panthers for the #1 overall pick. The Patriots without Brady are probably a 9 win team or so, just on the outside looking in to the playoffs.

PS, Most Pats fans just hate Manning.

Ah, the health argument! Again - LOL!! Yeah, they were so healthy Troy Brown played DB.

The defensive argument! Yes, that defense was stellar last year

So, you are guessing that without Brady they are a nine win team. Really? You think Hoyer could beat Pitt, Chicago, San Diego, Indy, Green Bay, Ravens and the Jets? People forget that although Cassell has proven his critics wrong, 2008 was probably the easiest schedule the Pats have had in a while.

And, yes, part of me hates him, but all of me respects Horse Face's game.

[Garb]

I'd take Brady over Manning any day of the week. Always have. I like winners, not chokers. Manning has always had the better talent around him IMO Faulk, James, Harrison, Wayne, Pollard, Clark, Stokley, Garcon, Addai...dont see how anyone can argue that...but the myth the Patriots never had a running game is precisely that, a myth.

You said, 2006 - 12th overall rushing...not bad. They had like 3 seasons in the Brady era that they werent a top 10/15 running game in the NFL. Now the years they fell out of that range, they were one of the worst in the league...but Brady has always had some type of running game.

And the only year they didnt have a running game but still were successful was 2003. Brady was good, not great, but that defense was incredible.

yes, 2006 - since Corey Dillon. 2007, 2008, 2009 were the Maroney Years (thank God for Kevin Faulk). Maroney started out strong in 2006 (sharing duty with Corey - which pissed Corey off) then his fizzled into a complete waste of space, time and air. So, what you call a "myth" I saw as fact. The Pats essentially did not have a running game....just like 2003.

Happy New Year, Spicoli!

[ZachEY]

Ah, the health argument! Again - LOL!! Yeah, they were so healthy Troy Brown played DB.

The defensive argument! Yes, that defense was stellar last year

So, you are guessing that without Brady they are a nine win team. Really? You think Hoyer could beat Pitt, Chicago, San Diego, Indy, Green Bay, Ravens and the Jets? People forget that although Cassell has proven his critics wrong, 2008 was probably the easiest schedule the Pats have had in a while.

And, yes, part of me hates him, but all of me respects Horse Face's game.

Just because you mock the argument, doesn't affect it's validity.

Troy Brown playing defense doesn't affect Brady's weapons either.

And no, not hoyer, but I'm talking about regression to the mean, not regression to a guy that's never played at all.

[Garb]

Just because you mock the argument, doesn't affect it's validity.

Troy Brown playing defense doesn't affect Brady's weapons either.

And no, not hoyer, but I'm talking about regression to the mean, not regression to a guy that's never played at all.

You stated that Brady had the better defense in 2006 and better health, I'm just pointing out that in 2006 Troy Brown played defensive back because of injury/depth issues. That is neither indicative of a better defense or better health.

You stated that without Brady they would be a 9 win team. Hoyer is his back-up. You can't make such a statement without predicting who Brady's replacement would be. My statement is this: you're nuts if you think Hoyer could get out of this young team what Brady is.

[ZachEY]

You stated that without Brady they would be a 9 win team. Hoyer is his back-up. You can't make such a statement without predicting who Brady's replacement would be. My statement is this: you're nuts if you think Hoyer could get out of this young team what Brady is.

I agree. With Hoyer, it would be a 3-4 win team. But, I don't think there's a team in the league that he'd win with right now. But, I think with the same QB, lets say Orton for arguments sake, the Orton led Pats would win more games than the Orton led Colts.

Of course, we'll never see that, and much like the crux of this whole argument it's based on hypotheticals on the principle that I think that the Colts are Peyton Manning away from being one of the worst teams in the NFL.

[Garb]

I agree. With Hoyer, it would be a 3-4 win team. But, I don't think there's a team in the league that he'd win with right now. But, I think with the same QB, lets say Orton for arguments sake, the Orton led Pats would win more games than the Orton led Colts.

Of course, we'll never see that, and much like the crux of this whole argument it's based on hypotheticals on the principle that I think that the Colts are Peyton Manning away from being one of the worst teams in the NFL.

....gotcha. I am not sure I agree....and then I think, Caldwell or Belichick? Argument over. You win.

[The Banned]

Its funny that you bring up Manning's pass attempt totals as some kind of ace in the hole since despite that he is still completing a slightly higher percentage of his passes than Tom Brady.

A couple of weeks ago they showed an interesting statistic during a Colts game. They broke down Manning's QB rating according to the distance of the pass attempt. Manning's ratings on pass attempts longer than 15 yards was in the 50's.

I think most would be surprised by how that compares to Brady. Brady's rating (as of two weeks ago) was almost 115 on pass attempts over 15 yards.

The other misconception is that Brady attempts far more short passes. Manning has attempted both a larger quantity and percentage (it's close) of passes under 10 years. Drew Brees also ranks very high.

I always find it interesting how reality differs from perception.

[Maxman]

A couple of weeks ago they showed an interesting statistic during a Colts game. They broke down Manning's QB rating according to the distance of the pass attempt. Manning's ratings on pass attempts longer than 15 yards was in the 50's.

I think most would be surprised by how that compares to Brady. Brady's rating (as of two weeks ago) was almost 115 on pass attempts over 15 yards.

The other misconception is that Brady attempts far more short passes. Manning has attempted both a larger quantity and percentage (it's close) of passes under 10 years. Drew Brees also ranks very high.

I always find it interesting how reality differs from perception.

Manning's team can not run the ball. Manning has like 150 more pass attempts this year. Comparing passer rating when the Colts have been behind so much this year and throwing downfield out of desperation just isn't apples to apples.

[The Banned]

I agree. With Hoyer, it would be a 3-4 win team. But, I don't think there's a team in the league that he'd win with right now. But, I think with the same QB, lets say Orton for arguments sake, the Orton led Pats would win more games than the Orton led Colts.

Of course, we'll never see that, and much like the crux of this whole argument it's based on hypotheticals on the principle that I think that the Colts are Peyton Manning away from being one of the worst teams in the NFL.

I think that's one reason why Pats fans get frustrated with the Manning argument. Manning backers always throw out unprovable "woulda, coulda, shoulda" scenarios. Statements like "if Manning had Brady's defense, he probably would've won 8 championships"

The problem with these lines of thinking is that it diminishes the actual achievement. You're essentially giving a guy credit for achieving things that he's never achieved. That argument also conveniently insulates Manning from ever being surpassed by Brady in their minds. No matter what Brady achieves, there's a built in excuse that Manning "coulda, woulda, shoulda" done it better. Brady could win another five Super Bowls and set all kinds of passing records in the process and that same flawed argument can be used over and over again. I find it interesting how this mindset relates to the Colts not pursuing perfection last season. "If we go 17-2 and everybody knows our two losses weren't real losses they'll know we "COULD'VE" gone 19-0 if we wanted to. Personally I found it cowardly and an affront to everything sports and competition should stand for. But so is the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" mentality and that's the problem with the arguments supporting Manning.

I believe in giving players credit for what they actually accomplish and achieve. And on that front, Brady > Manning and the gap is only going to get wider as their careers come to a close.

[Maxman]

I think that's one reason why Pats fans get frustrated with the Manning argument. Manning backers always throw out unprovable "woulda, coulda, shoulda" scenarios. Statements like "if Manning had Brady's defense, he probably would've won 8 championships"

The problem with these lines of thinking is that it diminishes the actual achievement. You're essentially giving a guy credit for achieving things that he's never achieved. That argument also conveniently insulates Manning from ever being surpassed by Brady in their minds. No matter what Brady achieves, there's a built in excuse that Manning "coulda, woulda, shoulda" done it better. Brady could win another five Super Bowls and set all kinds of passing records in the process and that same flawed argument can be used over and over again. I find it interesting how this mindset relates to the Colts not pursuing perfection last season. "If we go 17-2 and everybody knows our two losses weren't real losses they'll know we "COULD'VE" gone 19-0 if we wanted to. Personally I found it cowardly and an affront to everything sports and competition should stand for. But so is the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" mentality and that's the problem with the arguments supporting Manning.

I believe in giving players credit for what they actually accomplish and achieve. And on that front, Brady > Manning and the gap is only going to get wider as their careers come to a close.

I have no idea who you root for in other sports so you may not be in this group. But many Patriot\Red Sox fans take both sides of this argument. With Brady they want actual accomplishments but when it comes to Jeter they hop over to the other side of the debate and minimize the importance of the accomplishments.

[ZachEY]

I think that's one reason why Pats fans get frustrated with the Manning argument. Manning backers always throw out unprovable "woulda, coulda, shoulda" scenarios. Statements like "if Manning had Brady's defense, he probably would've won 8 championships"

The problem with these lines of thinking is that it diminishes the actual achievement. You're essentially giving a guy credit for achieving things that he's never achieved. That argument also conveniently insulates Manning from ever being surpassed by Brady in their minds. No matter what Brady achieves, there's a built in excuse that Manning "coulda, woulda, shoulda" done it better. Brady could win another five Super Bowls and set all kinds of passing records in the process and that same flawed argument can be used over and over again. I find it interesting how this mindset relates to the Colts not pursuing perfection last season. "If we go 17-2 and everybody knows our two losses weren't real losses they'll know we "COULD'VE" gone 19-0 if we wanted to. Personally I found it cowardly and an affront to everything sports and competition should stand for. But so is the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" mentality and that's the problem with the arguments supporting Manning.

I believe in giving players credit for what they actually accomplish and achieve. And on that front, Brady > Manning and the gap is only going to get wider as their careers come to a close.

And of course then I need to respond in kind with the Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino comment. And then we're back where we started.

[DMaynard]

No... he made it because he is the best CB in football and has proved it this year once he was in football shape. Nobody will ever match his 2009 season but his 2010 is pro bowl worthy.

Thank you for being honest and agenda free.