Clue Mafia - Game on!

[Doggin94it]

Why do you keep not only directing the cop, but directing the cop to waste his investigations?

First, you wanted the cop to investigate I-28, even though you say this about his status:

Now you're suggesting a potential "real cop" investigate Jetscode?!? If there is a real cop other than JC, JC is the one person he most obviously does not need to investigate! Right? Unless you have a good reason why a townie might be falsely claiming to be the cop that I'm not aware of, that is.

Note:

Slats actually quotes me explaining that the reason to investigate Jetscode (if there is a "real cop", and not JC) is that he might be the cult leader.

Then follows it up by falsely arguing that JC can only be town or mafia (ignoring the cult possibility), and asking me to explain my reasoning (which he just quoted, and ignored).

Slats, care to explain yourself?

[Integrity28]

Slats . . . you're better than this, usually.

He only has eyes for me this game. You guys keep talking though, this is getting interesting...

[Integrity28]

Doggin or slats. One is scum. Or both are scum running a gambit. That's what I'll be going on in Day 3.

Gambit is ALWAYS a possibility, especially with Doggin who loves to win fantastic or dying trying.

That said, its been painfully obvious to me that slats has not been reading the whole thread - burying his focus on trading barbs with me instead. Slats has seemed scummier all game to me, especially when he presented me with the WIFOM on using my shot on him.

Scummiest thing I have on Doggin is him voting for a room I did not - which I explained.

Don't trust either of them right now, but Slats certainly has exhibited more scum-like play IMO.

[Jetscode1]

The monkey should be lynched for crimes against the game of mafia, but probably not today.

Why do you keep not only directing the cop, but directing the cop to waste his investigations?

First, you wanted the cop to investigate I-28, even though you say this about his status:

Now you're suggesting a potential "real cop" investigate Jetscode?!? If there is a real cop other than JC, JC is the one person he most obviously does not need to investigate! Right? Unless you have a good reason why a townie might be falsely claiming to be the cop that I'm not aware of, that is.

Ping! Ping! Ping!

Holy Scumtell, Batman!

1) My advice that the cop should investigate I28 was before JiF's reveal confirmed I28s. At the time that I gave that advice, the possibility that I28 was scum was a hell of a lot more than minuscule; all we had to go on was his claim, and the fact that it did sound like a potential Lily-role. And since there was a real chance it was just a fake-claim, the risk of leaving I28 uninvestigated was huge - he had claimed bulletproof, so he had a built in way to explain his survival if he wasn't NKd.

Since I made crystal clear that the reason that the likelihood of I28 being scum was minuscule was the correspondence with JiF's reveal, the fact that you went back to a quote from before JiF's reveal to imply that I was "directing the cop to waste an investigation" is telling - you are skimming, not reading carefully, and you're working really hard to set up a lynch without worrying about the accuracy of your attack.

Since you're a much more careful player than that as town, that's a pretty huge sign, to me, that you're scum.

2) And hey, same thing on Jetscode. Obviously, if a "real cop" is out there, JC is scum. But what variety of scum? He might be vanilla mafia - but he also might be a cult leader, and if he's a cult leader, then we need to know that ASAP. We can't let him slide for days assuming he's just mafia, and letting him recruit. That's why it's not a waste to investigate him. Which you'd know was my thought process if you . . . oh, I don't know . . . read my post carefully.

Since, you know, I said that exact same thing in my post you were responding to.

Again - you're skimming, and looking for reasons to set up a lynch. Therefore, you're likely to be scum.

Doggin,

That is a very sloppy exchange right there...if there was a second cop out there (there isn't) he surely would not need to investigate me...FTR...never seen investigation results with that level of detail...of course I'm rookie cop...maybe some others could validate Doggin's claim that a cop's investigations results provide that level of detail.

[Doggin94it]

Gambit is ALWAYS a possibility, especially with Doggin who loves to win fantastic or dying trying.

That motto gets me in more trouble . . . (it's "win spectacularly or die trying", btw )

Good thing about the gambit fear (when I'm town) is that I get to make this argument: If your biggest worry is that I'm running a gambit, lynch the guy I'm aiming at. Because if I am running a gambit, then he really is scum (which means you need to lynch him anyway).

[Pac]

Well since we're talking about it the fact that sh*ttow mentioned Slats by name was a little disconcerting to me. It's possible scum might have gotten their own tip from Lily about a convert. If there's a CL as well as a scum team they're obviously battling each other so why not out one of your competition with your dying breath?

Slats also had a pretty quick explanation of why Wombat might have been the N1 target even though I missed the clues that were apparently left behind. Add to that the fact that Slats falls into this Mafia "elite" category and it starts looking very possible that he may have been the CL's #1 recruit.

[Doggin94it]

Doggin,

That is a very sloppy exchange right there...if there was a second cop out there (there isn't) he surely would not need to investigate me...FTR...never seen investigation results with that level of detail...of course I'm rookie cop...maybe some others could validate Doggin's claim that a cop's investigations results provide that level of detail.

Seriously? Cop results normally give variety of scum (SK, Mafia, Cult Leader), unless there's a separate investigatory role out there specifically tasked with looking for the extra flavor (FBI agent tracking the SK, "Cult Buster" looking for the Cult Leader).

But there's an easy way for you to find out, if you are who you claim you are.

Ask Lily

[Lily]

In my games, a doc does not protect against conversion.

[Lily]

I'm still missing one night action. I'll take it anytime now.

[slats]

Ping! Ping! Ping!

Holy Scumtell, Batman!

1) My advice that the cop should investigate I28 was before JiF's reveal confirmed I28s. At the time that I gave that advice, the possibility that I28 was scum was a hell of a lot more than minuscule; all we had to go on was his claim, and the fact that it did sound like a potential Lily-role. And since there was a real chance it was just a fake-claim, the risk of leaving I28 uninvestigated was huge - he had claimed bulletproof, so he had a built in way to explain his survival if he wasn't NKd.

Since I made crystal clear that the reason that the likelihood of I28 being scum was minuscule was the correspondence with JiF's reveal, the fact that you went back to a quote from before JiF's reveal to imply that I was "directing the cop to waste an investigation" is telling - you are skimming, not reading carefully, and you're working really hard to set up a lynch without worrying about the accuracy of your attack.

Since you're a much more careful player than that as town, that's a pretty huge sign, to me, that you're scum.

2) And hey, same thing on Jetscode. Obviously, if a "real cop" is out there, JC is scum. But what variety of scum? He might be vanilla mafia - but he also might be a cult leader, and if he's a cult leader, then we need to know that ASAP. We can't let him slide for days assuming he's just mafia, and letting him recruit. That's why it's not a waste to investigate him. Which you'd know was my thought process if you . . . oh, I don't know . . . read my post carefully.

Since, you know, I said that exact same thing in my post you were responding to.

Again - you're skimming, and looking for reasons to set up a lynch. Therefore, you're likely to be scum.

You hadn't come off your desire to have the cop investigate I-28 after JiF and he had pretty much confirmed they had the same role, even though you said at the time it was unlikely that they were both scum (the only option if they weren't both town, according to you). A position I agreed with. Did not see them going toe-to-toe in the game thread only to make the same reveal as a potential scum gambit at all.

And how the hell can you possibly spin the "real cop" investigate Jetscode? Variety of scum? Are you serious? This hypothetical "real cop" would know that Jetscode is scum, and that's enough. Investigating him would be a complete and total waste. What if JC is a godfather? What then? Is the "real cop" supposed to assume that JC is a second cop?

The result of this investigation is supposed to make it worth it for the cop to reveal, but it wasn't smart for him to reveal without it? What is he supposed to do with this information?

Much, much smarter for him to investigate his best cases, and when he finds one he can reveal with, "I'm the real cop, so Jetscode is obviously scum, and so is Player X." Not to reveal a day later with, "I'm the real cop, and -sure enough!- I investigated Jetscode and he's scum! Imagine my surprise!"

Variety...

[slats]

Well since we're talking about it the fact that sh*ttow mentioned Slats by name was a little disconcerting to me. It's possible scum might have gotten their own tip from Lily about a convert. If there's a CL as well as a scum team they're obviously battling each other so why not out one of your competition with your dying breath?

Slats also had a pretty quick explanation of why Wombat might have been the N1 target even though I missed the clues that were apparently left behind. Add to that the fact that Slats falls into this Mafia "elite" category and it starts looking very possible that he may have been the CL's #1 recruit.

@ Lily-Mod:

Will we be alerted if/when there's a conversion in the game?

If Sharrow's mention of my name after he was outed as scum (posts that Doggin wants to believe in, btw) manages to get me lynched today, tip of the ol' cap to him and his team!

[Doggin94it]

Spme past posts. Here's Slats pushing us to confirm the non-bulletproof JiF by lynching I28, rather than the other way around

I agree.

If we're lynching one of I28 and JiF to confirm the other, I think JiF is the better scum hunter (no offense, monkey boy). Yes, I28 threw in this added quasi-bulletproof thing, but I'm not sure about that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd think this gang would all have equal powers.

Still not excited about running up another late train for another last minute reveal as this deadline approaches, either.

That's why I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.

[Doggin94it]

<snips Long Deflecting post>

Variety...

Hmm. Still haven't addressed that a "real cop" (if one is out there) might find out that JC is the cult leader.

Or that the cult leader obviously must be found ASAP.

Why is that?

[Doggin94it]

More goodies from earlier in the thread.

Fair enough - but we're now 6:15 from deadline, and you're sitting with a solo vote (well, 3 now, I think, with JiF and Song) on a player you haven't gotten any traction on for days. I'm perfectly willing to take a hard look at JVoR tomorrow, but I don't think we have time to build a train on him, let him reveal, and then react to the reveal, all before deadline. Since we know JiF's role isn't town-critical and that it stands a good chance of killing an extra townie, lynching him is the smart play here, IMO. If nothing else, JiF flipping town confirms Integrity's bona-fides, without wasting a cop investigation and without fear that he may be a godfather.

(note - the bold was in my original post)

Any comment, Slats?

[slats]

Spme past posts. Here's Slats pushing us to confirm the non-bulletproof JiF by lynching I28, rather than the other way around.

Stand by it. No offense to the chimp, but I think JiF's the better scum hunter.

I'm ready to come out of the gate voting you for your cop directing, and putting stock in the Sharrow's post being outed posts. If you're ready to come after me, so be it. I hope you're not town, because I'd hate for the town to go back-to-back townie lynches because of a spat between us.

[Lily]

In the morning, you find more of you missing. A brief search of their rooms leads you to their bodies.

You find CTM with his skull caved in. The candlestick lies on the floor next to the bed.

CTM, Miss Tangerine, Cult Leader, was killed with the candlestick.

You also find a grisly scene in AVM’s room. In his case the lead pipe was the weapon of choice.

AVM, Dr. Magenta, Roleless townie, was killed with the lead pipe.

In Senor Gato’s room, you find him hanging from the chandelier, but you also find a note. It says “I am so angry about all these deaths, but I can’t be sure which of you is doing the killings. I can’t take it anymore.”

Senor Gato, Dr. Lemon, angry mob member, town aligned, was killed with the rope.

(I’ve used all the weapons that came with the game. I’ll be reusing them, so don’t read anything into it, okay?)

It is now day 3. With 15 alive you need 8 to lynch.

Deadline is Tuesday 8PM MST/10 PM EST

[Pac]

In the morning, you find more of you missing. A brief search of their rooms leads you to their bodies.

You find CTM with his skull caved in. The candlestick lies on the floor next to the bed.

CTM, Miss Tangerine, Cult Leader, was killed with the candlestick.

You also find a grisly scene in AVM’s room. In his case the lead pipe was the weapon of choice.

AVM, Dr. Magenta, Roleless townie, was killed with the lead pipe.

In Senor Gato’s room, you find him hanging from the chandelier, but you also find a note. It says “I am so angry about all these deaths, but I can’t be sure which of you is doing the killings. I can’t take it anymore.”

Senor Gato, Dr. Lemon, angry mob member, town aligned, was killed with the rope.

(I’ve used all the weapons that came with the game. I’ll be reusing them, so don’t read anything into it, okay?)

It is now day 3. With 15 alive you need 8 to lynch.

Deadline is Tuesday 8PM MST/10 PM EST

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[slats]

Hmm. Still haven't addressed that a "real cop" (if one is out there) might find out that JC is the cult leader.

Or that the cult leader obviously must be found ASAP.

Why is that?

Nice, dismissive post.

Frankly, I think you're assuming a lot by assuming there's a Cult Leader at all. Or that there's two teams (as claimed by dead scum). Usually a CL doesn't have the ability to NK. You think we have a NK'ing CL? Or do we have a scum team, a SK, and a CL?

My guess is a single townie to scum conversion, very possibly a room event as random as Vic's investigation result.

More goodies from earlier in the thread.

(note - the bold was in my original post)

Any comment, Slats?

Missed that comment, still don't like your cop directing before that comment or since.

[Jetsfan80]

Good thing about the gambit fear (when I'm town) is that I get to make this argument: If your biggest worry is that I'm running a gambit, lynch the guy I'm aiming at. Because if I am running a gambit, then he really is scum (which means you need to lynch him anyway).

Or we could just lynch you.

[Doggin94it]

Stand by it. No offense to the chimp, but I think JiF's the better scum hunter.

I'm ready to come out of the gate voting you for your cop directing, and putting stock in the Sharrow's post being outed posts. If you're ready to come after me, so be it. I hope you're not town, because I'd hate for the town to go back-to-back townie lynches because of a spat between us.

1) Still not at all dealing with the fact that if JC is scum, he might be the cult leader. Why not?

2) I haven't once mentioned Sharrow's posts as a reason to vote for you. They aren't. I've said it enough times in postgame wrap ups when I've been scum - once a player is outed, it's best to just ignore any info they provide unless there's external corroboration; getting lost in a WIFOM just lets scum control the game from beyond the grave. The only reason I take Sharrow's "two teams" claim seriously is because we had two deaths N1. If that doesn't continue, he was likely lying - if it does, he was likely telling the truth. Either way, it's worth filing away as a possibility, for now.

Sadly for you, your posts - and your refusal to answer direct questions - are scummy enough to get you lynched all on their own.

[slats]

In the morning, you find more of you missing. A brief search of their rooms leads you to their bodies.

You find CTM with his skull caved in. The candlestick lies on the floor next to the bed.

CTM, Miss Tangerine, Cult Leader, was killed with the candlestick.

Haha! Guess there was a CL!

@ Lily-Mod:

My question remains, would we have been alerted if a conversion had taken place?

[Doggin94it]

Or we could just lynch you.

Nope - doesn't work that way. Because here's the thing: you only fear a gambit if my arguments for lynching the other player are good. Which means that you have a reason to vote for him already; if fear of a gambit is the only thing holding you back, then it isn't holding you back, because if your fears are right, he really *is* scum.

If you think there's a good reason to vote for me, you do it . . . fear of a gambit neither adds nor detracts from it.

[slats]

1) Still not at all dealing with the fact that if JC is scum, he might be the cult leader. Why not?

2) I haven't once mentioned Sharrow's posts as a reason to vote for you. They aren't. I've said it enough times in postgame wrap ups when I've been scum - once a player is outed, it's best to just ignore any info they provide unless there's external corroboration; getting lost in a WIFOM just lets scum control the game from beyond the grave. The only reason I take Sharrow's "two teams" claim seriously is because we had two deaths N1. If that doesn't continue, he was likely lying - if it does, he was likely telling the truth. Either way, it's worth filing away as a possibility, for now.

Sadly for you, your posts - and your refusal to answer direct questions - are scummy enough to get you lynched all on their own.

Didn't think it mattered, now it definitely doesn't.

[Doggin94it]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Love it!

(Especially right before this:

Nice, dismissive post.

Frankly, I think you're assuming a lot by assuming there's a Cult Leader at all. Or that there's two teams (as claimed by dead scum). Usually a CL doesn't have the ability to NK. You think we have a NK'ing CL? Or do we have a scum team, a SK, and a CL?

My guess is a single townie to scum conversion, very possibly a room event as random as Vic's investigation result.

)

[Doggin94it]

Vote Slats

Explanation as above.

[Lily]

Haha! Guess there was a CL!

@ Lily-Mod:

My question remains, would we have been alerted if a conversion had taken place?

You would not.

[slats]

Hey Monkey, you wanna lay claim to any of these deaths?

[slats]

Vote Slats

Explanation as above.

Haha!

Like I said, I was ready to vote you out of the shoot for your pushing to direct the cop. That's the direction I'll go in pending anything interesting from JC - or our "real cop," who should feel free to come out of the woodwork to out JC now that the CL is dead, if he exists.

[Jetsfan80]

I don't like that Slats isn't answering all of Doggin's questions. I also don't like that I agree with I28 that slats seems scummier than doggin. I have only one choice.

VOTE:

slats

[Doggin94it]

BTW, I'm going to role reveal now, since the cult leader is dead.

I'm the Sandman. I can put any player to sleep at night, which means that no night actions targeting them go through, and their own actions are blocked.

I'm role revealing now because I targeted I28 nights 1 and 2. I targeted him Night 1 to block his vig kill (that's why I kept urging him to take the shot - I knew I could block it). I targeted him Night 2 because: (a) I thought he was lying about the rooms he was safe in (since if he really was safe in the Library, he'd have stayed quiet to draw the kill, not admitted to being safe and taunting me about "failing" to get him to a room where he was vulnerable) - so just in case, I made sure he couldn't be killed; and ( knowing there was a cult leader in the game, I wanted to make sure I28 couldn't be recruited.

I'm revealing now because everyone needs to know that I28 could not have been cult recruited. I targeted him both night 1 and night 2 - so no recruit on him could have gone through. He is still a confirmed townie.

Can't die without putting that info out there; now that the cult leader is dead, I don't have to worry about him snapping up I28 once I'm gone.

I can't target myself, btw.

[slats]

I don't like that Slats isn't answering all of Doggin's questions. I also don't like that I agree with I28 that slats seems scummier than doggin. I have only one choice.

VOTE:

slats

What didn't I answer?

[Pac]

I'm inclined to vote Slats but I'd like to hear from everyone. While that pig CTM was destroyed we still lost 2 townies last night..

[Doggin94it]

Haha!

Like I said, I was ready to vote you out of the shoot for your pushing to direct the cop. That's the direction I'll go in pending anything interesting from JC - or our "real cop," who should feel free to come out of the woodwork to out JC now that the CL is dead, if he exists.

Uh, no, again. If there's a real cop, he stays hidden until he hits on another scum, for all the reasons we discussed before we knew there was a cult in the game to begin with.

Or had you forgotten about those?

[HessStation]

LOL with Sharrow and CTM once again on the same team. They must have banged in another life.

[Doggin94it]

LOL with Sharrow and CTM once again on the same team. They must have banged in another life.

They weren't. Sharrow was mafia. CTM was cult