Doggin94it Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Jetscode, while we're in night - what was with that vote to open day 2? Are you claiming a negative investigation result on I28? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 A few thoughts: 1) Really doubt Barm is scum with Sharrow, now; no way Sharrow pushes that lynch that hard if he is (I don't read that as a gambit) My personal opinion is that the only way he'd do that is if the scum team was pissed about his lack of participation. I've seen it happen, but I'm not ready to lynch barm based off it. He needs to give us more content however, otherwise he's dead weight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 My personal opinion is that the only way he'd do that is if the scum team was pissed about his lack of participation. I've seen it happen, but I'm not ready to lynch barm based off it. He needs to give us more content however, otherwise he's dead weight... Agreed - though Barm plays a lot like Verbal and Hybrid (not sure if you guys know Hybrid) when town - less content early, more content late. Which annoys me, a bit . . . but isn't a scumtell for them, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Agreed - though Barm plays a lot like Verbal and Hybrid (not sure if you guys know Hybrid) when town - less content early, more content late. Which annoys me, a bit . . . but isn't a scumtell for them, in my experience. Not a scunmtell, just annoying. People who don't post are impossible to lynch on content.. btw.. I don't know that I agree with your sharrow point on i28.. We backed of lynching the guy already, and most we're buying his reveal. Why argue against tieing up a cop investigation when your not a godfather. I guess he could just be trying to appear more innocent.. It's just curious to me, not looking to lynch i28 based off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Not a scunmtell, just annoying. People who don't post are impossible to lynch on content.. btw.. I don't know that I agree with your sharrow point on i28.. We backed of lynching the guy already, and most we're buying his reveal. Why argue against tieing up a cop investigation when your not a godfather. I guess he could just be trying to appear more innocent.. It's just curious to me, not looking to lynch i28 based off it. Hmm . . . when was Sharrow's post? If it was before JiF's reveal, then I wouldn't consider that a very good response; at that point, we were very much worrying that he was scum who could slide by on his bulletproof claim (hence the request for the cop to investigate him). If you're scum and you assume he's town, you really don't want him investigated. If it was after JiF's reveal, then you'd be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 This post caught my eye. The only other posters who mentioned secret passagees were JVOR and Dan very early day 1. And they sorta ninja'd themselves when they did, almost accidently For the room, I would suggest we stay away from the corners this time, maybe they are the ones with the negative events like the kitchen cause of the secret passages. vote:library sounds good to me, getting an investigation as the event there could make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 1) Really doubt Barm is scum with Sharrow, now; no way Sharrow pushes that lynch that hard if he is (I don't read that as a gambit) 2) The reason Sharrow didn't want I28 investigated is obvious - didn't want a confirmed bulletproof townie I lean towards Barm being innocent, too. Or at least, as you say, not on Sharrow's team*. Not so sure it's 100% obvious why Sharrow didn't want I28 investigated. 4) SMC calling BS on Sharrow's self-vote post is odd . . . two deaths that night would support the claim that there are two scum teams at work. 5) Was wrong about Song - from her adamant refusal to vote JiF or I28, I was sure she was a third Angry Mobster. Sharrow's "it wasn't personal" all but confirms that she was killed by Sharrow's scum team. 6) Unfortunately, 2 scum teams means that Barm and Vic aren't in the clear (anyone remember Yellin decimating my scum team in CTM's All In The Family game, as the godfather of scum team 2?). *I'm not inclined to put too much faith in posts Sharrow made after he was outed. Whether it's him claiming a second team, or claiming responsibility for Song's death. He could very well be full of crap on both counts. Why would he be honest about anything at that point? I'm thinking that was his last ditch attempt to muddy the waters, and nothing else. Of course, Sharrow also said I'd want you to think there's only one team, so take that for what it's worth. But here's his obit: The day started off with some people suggesting you look at this person or that person, but nothing really serious took place until Vic said “I just read a book from that shelf. It taught me some body language. Sharrow, your body language says you are a killer!” He stands up and dramatically points at Sharrow. “We need to kill him!” Most of you believed Vic, particularly when he staked his life on it. Vic said “All in favor raise your hand.” You looked at each other and at Sharrow and one by one your hands lifted into the air. 8….9…..10. Finally I28 opened the desk drawer, pulled out the revolver and did the messy deed. Sharrow, Lady Garnet, mafia, was killed with the revolver. It is now night 2. You have until Monday 8PM MST to get night actions in. Please vote for a room on the thread. Just lists him as mafia. I'd think with two teams, there'd be some other sort of identification. Like CTM's game you mentioned with the two separately ID'd police precincts. Don't think the second kill was one of our vigilantes, not the way they described their kills, so I'd think serial killer. Which isn't any better for the town than a second team, except for the fact that we could end the double NK's with one fortunate lynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hmm . . . when was Sharrow's post? If it was before JiF's reveal, then I wouldn't consider that a very good response; at that point, we were very much worrying that he was scum who could slide by on his bulletproof claim (hence the request for the cop to investigate him). If you're scum and you assume he's town, you really don't want him investigated. If it was after JiF's reveal, then you'd be right. It was pre-Jif... but remember i28 revealed cause he was at l-2... by the time of sharrows post he was down to 5 or 6 votes and the herd had moved over to jif.. just don't see the urgency in preventing the near confirm of i28, when i think he was more of less safe anyway.. if I was scum and not the god father, I'd very much have preferred occupying the cop... also, you said cop directing is only bad when scum may kill the invetigatee.. but surely you know that many scum teams have a watcher, and I'd love to direct the cop as scum and watch who visits.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 LOOK It's Sharrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 LOOK It's Sharrow! Sharrows white? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Im getting dragged to Syracuse (1.5 hr drive) for nothing more than a dinner with the mother and father of the LF. She doesn't ax for much so I can't say no but she's beginning to push her luck... few more of these requests on my weekends and she's catching a size 12 in her a$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well, I suppose Vote: Billiard Room it is. So Vic finds out that Sharrow is scum, while we lost two town. Hess is super crazy, and I concur about Jetscode. A few thoughts: 1) Really doubt Barm is scum with Sharrow, now; no way Sharrow pushes that lynch that hard if he is (I don't read that as a gambit) 2) The reason Sharrow didn't want I28 investigated is obvious - didn't want a confirmed bulletproof townie 3) I-28, on the rooms - my bad. Completely missed where you were voting in my hurry to get offline for shabbos. You should have mentioned it on-thread before the vote went final - someone could have moved us back. 4) SMC calling BS on Sharrow's self-vote post is odd . . . two deaths that night would support the claim that there are two scum teams at work. 5) Was wrong about Song - from her adamant refusal to vote JiF or I28, I was sure she was a third Angry Mobster. Sharrow's "it wasn't personal" all but confirms that she was killed by Sharrow's scum team. 6) Unfortunately, 2 scum teams means that Barm and Vic aren't in the clear (anyone remember Yellin decimating my scum team in CTM's All In The Family game, as the godfather of scum team 2?). 7) I28 - wish you hadn't announced that you were safe. Mafia taking a shot at you, and it bouncing off, would have been better. Billiard Room Indeed -- EY ran the game for a couple days leading the town to it's own death before getting horribly unlucky with me. Certainly possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightCash Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So I'm all caught up now. Sorry I was mia. Got first place though so our team is off to Pittsburgh in October for nationals. Pretty stoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Congrats, Brett! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So I'm all caught up now. Sorry I was mia. Got first place though so our team is off to Pittsburgh in October for nationals. Pretty stoked. You get to go from California to Pittsburgh? Sounds more like a punishment. Congrats, though, and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Ok, caught up. Would like to hear from JC on the I28 vote. Sounds like he got a guilty viewing, but hasn't come back to explain. I was actually believing both reveals, so now at least I'm happy that 1 of them appears to be scum. Vote: Billiard Room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Oh, and grats Brett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightCash Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks all, and unvote vote billiard room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Rooms: Library (1) – JF80 Billiard Room (14) – Barm, Gato, Slats, CTM, SMC, I28, Vic, BG, JVoR, Hess, Doggin, AVM, Verb, Brett Conservatory (1) - Pac Still waiting on a night action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'd like to hear more about this case, too. vote: Billiard Room And I really do think JC should tell us about his investigation before the night phase is over, even if it's just to say he investigated an anonymous innocent.His life is in danger every night. That vote on I-20-ape with no follow up was odd to say the least. Jetscode, while we're in night - what was with that vote to open day 2? Are you claiming a negative investigation result on I28? Slats/Doggin, My investigation last night revealed town the previous night. I did not investigate I-28. A couple of hours ago I was set toward announcing who was cleared but now I’m having second thoughts…On the one hand its puts a target on their back and on the other hand…it forces the scum to choose either; the cleared, chase the Doc, or NK me. If they eliminate the cleared, the Doc lives another night, and hence I live another night and we get another investigation. I’d appreciate yours and any other player's thoughts on this subject in the remaining night phase. On the subject of I-28…I’ll explain my vote this way…I do not trust I-28’s reveal… I know several have bought into his reveal (especially after JiF’s similar reveal) because it appears he is offering some great power that makes him invaluable in the end game. I understand their thinking…just doubt the sources. The interplay of those who sanctioned his reveal has also raised my focus. Bottom line…I see no method to determine he is town and not the grandfather with 100% certainty. Therefore, I’d rather use my investigations on some other players. Unless I get a scum read on one of the other players or another convincing case from one of our town people my preferred lynch candidate is I-28. I’ve come to the conclusion that our town is better off with his lynch than with his continual hypocrisy. His entire anti-town behaviour reeks of player who is solely interested in his survival and not the interest of the town. IMO…I’d prefer not to reward the narcissism. Since my investigation last night came up town my preferred lynch candidate was I-28. Nothing personal...just business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Slats/Doggin, My investigation last night revealed town the previous night. I did not investigate I-28. A couple of hours ago I was set toward announcing who was cleared but now I’m having second thoughts…On the one hand its puts a target on their back and on the other hand…it forces the scum to choose either; the cleared, chase the Doc, or NK me. If they eliminate the cleared, the Doc lives another night, and hence I live another night and we get another investigation. I’d appreciate yours and any other player's thoughts on this subject in the remaining night phase. Do not reveal investigated townies unless they are at L-2 (so that you can clear them without them needing to reveal). You say the scum would have to choose between the cleared and "chasing the doc" - but how do you know the person you targeted isn't the doc. As long as the doc is protecting you, you'll be around the next day to avoid us killing known townies, and it means that the scum will be more likely to reduce your pool of unknowns. @Mod - Does Doc Protection Prevent Recruitment? (If not, an outed cop is an obvious cult target) On the subject of I-28…I’ll explain my vote this way…I do not trust I-28’s reveal… I know several have bought into his reveal (especially after JiF’s similar reveal) because it appears he is offering some great power that makes him invaluable in the end game. I understand their thinking…just doubt the sources. The interplay of those who sanctioned his reveal has also raised my focus. Bottom line…I see no method to determine he is town and not the grandfather with 100% certainty. Therefore, I’d rather use my investigations on some other players. Unless I get a scum read on one of the other players or another convincing case from one of our town people my preferred lynch candidate is I-28. I’ve come to the conclusion that our town is better off with his lynch than with his continual hypocrisy. His entire anti-town behaviour reeks of player who is solely interested in his survival and not the interest of the town. IMO…I’d prefer not to reward the narcissism. Since my investigation last night came up town my preferred lynch candidate was I-28. Nothing personal...just business. This is utterly ridiculous. JiF, who was town, confirmed that I28's role description matched his in most ways, even down to the name ("Angry Mob") There is no scenario where I28 was scum who just made up a role claim that happened to be exactly in line with a real role actually in the game. So here are the two options: 1) I28 is town 2) I28 is scum who had information on a town role that was in the game, that he then used to fake claim. Since his role claim was Day 1, the odds that I28 was scum with game info are so small that we ought to completely disregard the possibility. As with you until we learn otherwise, our main worry is recruitment. Lynching a potentially bulletproof townie would be a serious mistake. Anyone disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Oh, and one more thing. 100% certainty isn't the goal. Almost nothing in mafia can be known with 100% certainty. All you can do is weigh the level of probability with the risks and benefits of each action, and make a decision. Here, the level of probability that I28 is scum is miniscule, and the benefit of lynching him is minimal. So why would we do that? Right now, we really need to find that cult leader (or whoever has a recruiting role) and that means targeting people you haven't investigated or who's role reveals we don't 99.9% buy, so that we can narrow down the possibilities and find him quicker. Even if the Monkey is a godfather, he's got to go on the back burner until we find the converter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Slats/Doggin, My investigation last night revealed town the previous night. I did not investigate I-28. A couple of hours ago I was set toward announcing who was cleared but now I’m having second thoughts…On the one hand its puts a target on their back and on the other hand…it forces the scum to choose either; the cleared, chase the Doc, or NK me. If they eliminate the cleared, the Doc lives another night, and hence I live another night and we get another investigation. I’d appreciate yours and any other player's thoughts on this subject in the remaining night phase. On the subject of I-28…I’ll explain my vote this way…I do not trust I-28’s reveal… I know several have bought into his reveal (especially after JiF’s similar reveal) because it appears he is offering some great power that makes him invaluable in the end game. I understand their thinking…just doubt the sources. The interplay of those who sanctioned his reveal has also raised my focus. Bottom line…I see no method to determine he is town and not the grandfather with 100% certainty. Therefore, I’d rather use my investigations on some other players. Unless I get a scum read on one of the other players or another convincing case from one of our town people my preferred lynch candidate is I-28. I’ve come to the conclusion that our town is better off with his lynch than with his continual hypocrisy. His entire anti-town behaviour reeks of player who is solely interested in his survival and not the interest of the town. IMO…I’d prefer not to reward the narcissism. Since my investigation last night came up town my preferred lynch candidate was I-28. Nothing personal...just business. Nothing personal... you just want to lynch me because of a perceived personality fla?. I've put everything on the table that I can to explain my D1 play - I had to find a target for my shot before the end of N1, and I think/hope I did a good job - you seem to be ignoring that completely, when as the so-called Cop you should have been paying attention and looking for people to inspect based on that interaction. Here is what we know about you, you played yourself towards a reveal on D1. You didn't do anything to try to diffuse your train, in fact you arrogantly incited more votes until you go to blurt out a role. I can't imagine a scummier way for you to have played D2. To drop a vote on a revealed townie with bulletproof coming immediately out of night phase and not explain that vote until after someone got lynched, is complete bullsh*t anti-town play. You knew the manner in which you voted would force the town to ponder whether or not you investigated me, and I'm guessing you are scum and were banking on a speed lynch of me. Fact is, if you didn't investigate me, you should have stated a reason for you vote when you voted. Not doing so was anti-town. This post sounds like back-filling excuse making because you weren't able to leverage your quick vote into a speed lynch of me, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Nothing personal... you just want to lynch me because of a perceived personality fla?. I've put everything on the table that I can to explain my D1 play - I had to find a target for my shot before the end of N1, and I think/hope I did a good job - you seem to be ignoring that completely, when as the so-called Cop you should have been paying attention and looking for people to inspect based on that interaction. Here is what we know about you, you played yourself towards a reveal on D1. You didn't do anything to try to diffuse your train, in fact you arrogantly incited more votes until you go to blurt out a role. I can't imagine a scummier way for you to have played D2. To drop a vote on a revealed townie with bulletproof coming immediately out of night phase and not explain that vote until after someone got lynched, is complete bullsh*t anti-town play. You knew the manner in which you voted would force the town to ponder whether or not you investigated me, and I'm guessing you are scum and were banking on a speed lynch of me. Fact is, if you didn't investigate me, you should have stated a reason for you vote when you voted. Not doing so was anti-town. This post sounds like back-filling excuse making because you weren't able to leverage your quick vote into a speed lynch of me, nothing more. I agree with this completely, and the whole series of posts makes me trust Jetscode a lot less. If we have a "real cop" out there, it may be worth investigating Jetscode. We now know a converter is out there, which means JC could be a cult leader, not just standard mafia (if there is a "real cop" out there, he's one or the other), and if he's a cult leader, we need to know that ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Guys I apologize but I have to drop out. I'm not paying attention at all and it's probably not good for the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Guys I apologize but I have to drop out. I'm not paying attention at all and it's probably not good for the game. SenorGato is officially the Vernon Gholston of teh mafia. I told you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Wow, 80, is whipped. Well, it is Valentine's weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The monkey should be lynched for crimes against the game of mafia, but probably not today. I agree with this completely, and the whole series of posts makes me trust Jetscode a lot less. If we have a "real cop" out there, it may be worth investigating Jetscode. We now know a converter is out there, which means JC could be a cult leader, not just standard mafia (if there is a "real cop" out there, he's one or the other), and if he's a cult leader, we need to know that ASAP. Why do you keep not only directing the cop, but directing the cop to waste his investigations? First, you wanted the cop to investigate I-28, even though you say this about his status: the level of probability that I28 is scum is miniscule, and the benefit of lynching him is minimal. Now you're suggesting a potential "real cop" investigate Jetscode?!? If there is a real cop other than JC, JC is the one person he most obviously does not need to investigate! Right? Unless you have a good reason why a townie might be falsely claiming to be the cop that I'm not aware of, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Plus wouldn't the "real cop" have to out himself? I thought that having the "real cop" reveal his role would be a poor decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Plus wouldn't the "real cop" have to out himself? I thought that having the "real cop" reveal his role would be a poor decision? With the conversion factor in this game, it'd be an incredibly poor decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 With the conversion factor in this game, it'd be an incredibly poor decision. So.....FOS Doggin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Why do you keep not only directing the cop, but directing the cop to waste his investigations? First, you wanted the cop to investigate I-28, even though you say this about his status: Now you're suggesting a potential "real cop" investigate Jetscode?!? If there is a real cop other than JC, JC is the one person he most obviously does not need to investigate! Right? Unless you have a good reason why a townie might be falsely claiming to be the cop that I'm not aware of, that is. Ping! Ping! Ping! Holy Scumtell, Batman! 1) My advice that the cop should investigate I28 was before JiF's reveal confirmed I28s. At the time that I gave that advice, the possibility that I28 was scum was a hell of a lot more than minuscule; all we had to go on was his claim, and the fact that it did sound like a potential Lily-role. And since there was a real chance it was just a fake-claim, the risk of leaving I28 uninvestigated was huge - he had claimed bulletproof, so he had a built in way to explain his survival if he wasn't NKd. Since I made crystal clear that the reason that the likelihood of I28 being scum was minuscule was the correspondence with JiF's reveal, the fact that you went back to a quote from before JiF's reveal to imply that I was "directing the cop to waste an investigation" is telling - you are skimming, not reading carefully, and you're working really hard to set up a lynch without worrying about the accuracy of your attack. Since you're a much more careful player than that as town, that's a pretty huge sign, to me, that you're scum. 2) And hey, same thing on Jetscode. Obviously, if a "real cop" is out there, JC is scum. But what variety of scum? He might be vanilla mafia - but he also might be a cult leader, and if he's a cult leader, then we need to know that ASAP. We can't let him slide for days assuming he's just mafia, and letting him recruit. That's why it's not a waste to investigate him. Which you'd know was my thought process if you . . . oh, I don't know . . . read my post carefully. Since, you know, I said that exact same thing in my post you were responding to. Again - you're skimming, and looking for reasons to set up a lynch. Therefore, you're likely to be scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Tl;DR version: Slats is skimming, and making obviously false arguments. That's where my vote will go at the start of Day 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Plus wouldn't the "real cop" have to out himself? I thought that having the "real cop" reveal his role would be a poor decision? With the conversion factor in this game, it'd be an incredibly poor decision. Yes . . . unless JC is the cult leader, at which point the cop must reveal himself, because we need to stop the conversions ASAP. If Jetscode is just standard mafia, the cop stays quiet. Slats . . . you're better than this, usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Doggin or slats. One is scum. Or both are scum running a gambit. That's what I'll be going on in Day 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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