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CrazyCarl40

So This Is How The 2011 Red Sox Should Line-Up

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Barring any unforeseen setbacks with injuries and what have you:

Line-Up

C - Jarrod Saltalamacchia

1B - Adrian Gonzalez

2B - Dustin Pedroia

SS - Marco Scutaro

3B - Kevin Youkilis

LF - Carl Crawford

CF - Jacoby Elssbury

RF - JD Drew

DH - David Ortiz

Bench

Jason Varitek

Jed Lowrie

Mike Cameron

Darnell McDonald

Rotation

Jon Lester

Clay Buchholz

Josh Beckett

John Lackey

Dice-K

Bullpen

Jonathan Papelbon

Daniel Bard

Bobby Jenks

Dan Wheeler

Tim Wakefield

Hideki Okajima

Not sure if the 25th guy will be a position player or another lefty like Dennys Reyes or someone like Aceves or Atchison. We'll see. Very good team on paper, but we'll see how it translates to actual games.

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Hard to start AWFUL players at C CF and SS and win a lot of games. Up the middle is pretty damn important.

Ellsbury stole 70 bases two seasons ago. How is that awful?

Marco Scutaro had a better year than Jeter last season. What does that say about Jeter?

Salty is a project, but Tek can still help guide a pitching staff and hit decently last season with the rest. You're grasping at straws here.

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Ellsbury stole 70 bases two seasons ago. How is that awful?

Marco Scutaro had a better year than Jeter last season. What does that say about Jeter?

Salty is a project, but Tek can still help guide a pitching staff and hit decently last season with the rest. You're grasping at straws here.

Jeter was awful last year. Whats your point? He's a problem for the yankees but that doesn't mean that Scutaro wasn't and Jeter has a track record of being very good unlike Scutaro who has been garbage his entire career. The comparison is dumb.

Ellsbury is horrible, has been horrible, will be horrible. SB's don't change that. You think Jeter was awful last year? Thats Ellsbury EVERY YEAR. If he had any value he would've been traded by now.

Your catching situation is a complete and utter joke. Not even worth talking about other than as a laughing stock. Probably the worst pair of catchers in the majors.

Edited by madmikeisback

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Jeter was awful last year. Whats your point? He's a problem for the yankees but that doesn't mean that Scutaro wasn't and Jeter has a track record of being very good unlike Scutaro who has been garbage his entire career. The comparison is dumb.

Ellsbury is horrible, has been horrible, will be horrible. SB's don't change that. You think Jeter was awful last year? Thats Ellsbury EVERY YEAR. If he had any value he would've been traded by now.

Your catching situation is a complete and utter joke. Not even worth talking about other than as a laughing stock. Probably the worst pair of catchers in the majors.

Oh this is going to be a fun year. I can't wait to bring this post up in September. Good luck this season.

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Marco Scutaro is awesome and has been far from garbage for his career.

That lineup is going to look so much more deadly after the deadline and there's a Beltran sitting there... ;)

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Jeter was awful last year. Whats your point? He's a problem for the yankees but that doesn't mean that Scutaro wasn't and Jeter has a track record of being very good unlike Scutaro who has been garbage his entire career. The comparison is dumb.

Ellsbury is horrible, has been horrible, will be horrible. SB's don't change that. You think Jeter was awful last year? Thats Ellsbury EVERY YEAR. If he had any value he would've been traded by now.

Your catching situation is a complete and utter joke. Not even worth talking about other than as a laughing stock. Probably the worst pair of catchers in the majors.

The only valid point you have is the catching situation.

Scutaro is a JAG, but he is far from horrible. While Jeter has clearly had a better career, you better hope last year was an aberration and not a sign of decline for a soon to be 37yo SS.

WTF are you talking about in regards to Ellsbury? :rolleyes: You give no facts to back up your point. In two full seasons has led the league in stolen bases twice and triples once. Every meaningful stat he improved in from his first season to his second. Why don't you watch some baseball.

The catching situation is a soft spot. It is what it is. Maybe Salty fufills his potential and as last year showed, Tek's numbers are better in a reduced role.

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Marco Scutaro is awesome and has been far from garbage for his career.

That lineup is going to look so much more deadly after the deadline and there's a Beltran sitting there... ;)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

721 OPS = Awesome in boston. I guess thats why they love Ellsbury...

Edited by madmikeisback

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The only valid point you have is the catching situation.

Scutaro is a JAG, but he is far from horrible. While Jeter has clearly had a better career, you better hope last year was an aberration and not a sign of decline for a soon to be 37yo SS.

WTF are you talking about in regards to Ellsbury? :rolleyes: You give no facts to back up your point. In two full seasons has led the league in stolen bases twice and triples once. Every meaningful stat he improved in from his first season to his second. Why don't you watch some baseball.

The catching situation is a soft spot. It is what it is. Maybe Salty fufills his potential and as last year showed, Tek's numbers are better in a reduced role.

If you think that leading the league in triples with 10 or in SB's means anything on it's own you really have no idea what you're talking about. Utter crap like Juan Pierre and Scott Podsednick have both done that over and over again and Ellsbury is the same type of player. He's a fast guy who does nothing else well. He's a horrible hitter who has never any real success in the minors let alone the majors. You can't make up for sucking with being fast. BTW do you know how much you have to suck to have 10 triples and still barely crack a 400 SLG?

Calling the catchers a "soft spot" is funny. They are probably 2 of the 5 worst hitters in the majors excluding pitchers and their D doesn't come close to making up for it.

Is Boston a good team? Yeah they are. They could easily win the division. I mean their payroll is right up there with the Yankees and they had a spending spree this offseason while the yankees did nothing.. But are they this unbeatable Juggernaut with no holes? Not even close.

Edited by madmikeisback

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

721 OPS = Awesome in boston. I guess thats why they love Ellsbury...

True true...I thought he played better D...turns out it was just that one year in Toronto.

Anyway, he'll lose his job to Lowerie...at least that's what I hear is hoped.

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True true...I thought he played better D...turns out it was just that one year in Toronto.

Anyway, he'll lose his job to Lowerie...at least that's what I hear is hoped.

Lowerie sucks too.

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If you think that leading the league in triples with 10 or in SB's means anything on it's own you really have no idea what you're talking about. Utter crap like Juan Pierre and Scott Podsednick have both done that over and over again and Ellsbury is the same type of player. He's a fast guy who does nothing else well. He's a horrible hitter who has never any real success in the minors let alone the majors. You can't make up for sucking with being fast. BTW do you know how much you have to suck to have 10 triples and still barely crack a 400 SLG?

Calling the catchers a "soft spot" is funny. They are probably 2 of the 5 worst hitters in the majors excluding pitchers and their D doesn't come close to making up for it.

Is Boston a good team? Yeah they are. They could easily win the division. I mean their payroll is right up there with the Yankees and they had a spending spree this offseason while the yankees did nothing.. But are they this unbeatable Juggernaut with no holes? Not even close.

No one is saying they are unbeatable.

He will never have a high slugging percentage because he does not have much power. He has been and will always be a 8-12 HR guy.

With that being said, I am not saying he is a finished product and is far from being perfect CFer. His biggest knock from 2008 to 2009 was discipline at the plate. He got better. His OBP, SLG and OPS went up. Granted it was a small sample, but his numbers in 2010 were getting better before he got injured last year. That is what it is though.

If over the next few years he continues to hover around the .300 AVG, .360 OBP, .400 SLG and .800 OPS, then your point is valid. I would not say he is a horrible hitter if he maintains that, but he would be a JAG like Pierre.

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No one is saying they are unbeatable.

He will never have a high slugging percentage because he does not have much power. He has been and will always be a 8-12 HR guy.

With that being said, I am not saying he is a finished product and is far from being perfect CFer. His biggest knock from 2008 to 2009 was discipline at the plate. He got better. His OBP, SLG and OPS went up. Granted it was a small sample, but his numbers in 2010 were getting better before he got injured last year. That is what it is though.

If over the next few years he continues to hover around the .300 AVG, .360 OBP, .400 SLG and .800 OPS, then your point is valid. I would not say he is a horrible hitter if he maintains that, but he would be a JAG like Pierre.

When the hell has he ever had an 360 OBP or 800 OPS? He didn't even do that consistently in the minors. Also he had a 485 OPS last year. Much better.

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True true...I thought he played better D...turns out it was just that one year in Toronto.

Anyway, he'll lose his job to Lowerie...at least that's what I hear is hoped.

They're really hoping Iglecias is ready.

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When the hell has he ever had an 360 OBP or 800 OPS? He didn't even do that consistently in the minors. Also he had a 485 OPS last year. Much better.

You do realize he is entering his prime and is not like Pierre well in his 30s?

If you had credibility, you would have lost it after the .485 OPS comment. What was his OPS when he got injured six games into the season? .800

Again, that does not mean he would have had that if he played the entire season, but way to cherry pick when he played 12 more games with two broken ribs and it dropped. :rolleyes:

His career high for OBP in his second full season is .355. .360 is four more hits. :rolleyes:

A .800 OPS is not that far off. He had a .902 in his first call up covering 33 games. I realize this is not a full season, but his career high is .770. His OBP and SLG went up 20 points each from his first full season to his second. You are talking 30 more points. That is easily attainable.

Keep digging though.

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You do realize he is entering his prime and is not like Pierre well in his 30s?

If you had credibility, you would have lost it after the .485 OPS comment. What was his OPS when he got injured six games into the season? .800

Again, that does not mean he would have had that if he played the entire season, but way to cherry pick when he played 12 more games with two broken ribs and it dropped. :rolleyes:

His career high for OBP in his second full season is .355. .360 is four more hits. :rolleyes:

A .800 OPS is not that far off. He had a .902 in his first call up covering 33 games. I realize this is not a full season, but his career high is .770. His OBP and SLG went up 20 points each from his first full season to his second. You are talking 30 more points. That is easily attainable.

Keep digging though.

So he played 18 games last year and you're saying thats a small sample size but then you counter me with his OPS over 6 games HAHAHAHAHA

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When the hell has he ever had an 360 OBP or 800 OPS? He didn't even do that consistently in the minors. Also he had a 485 OPS last year. Much better.

2009 his OBP was .355 and his OPS was .770. No reason to not think he can improve ont hos enmbers when fully healthy. He's a speed demon and with guys like Crawford, Pedroia, Youks, and Gonzo hitting behind him, he's going to score a ton of runs. Those are important, aren't they?

Just keep talking and wait and see how the season turns out.

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2009 his OBP was .355 and his OPS was .770. No reason to not think he can improve ont hos enmbers when fully healthy. He's a speed demon and with guys like Crawford, Pedroia, Youks, and Gonzo hitting behind him, he's going to score a ton of runs. Those are important, aren't they?

Just keep talking and wait and see how the season turns out.

There is every reason to think he won't improve because he sucks. He's done nothing but suck for his entire professional career. If you want to talk about the good players boston has be my guest but don't continue the fanatical thinking with this guy. But you don't really have much of a relationship with reality when it comes to red sox players...

The argument "he's fast and there are good hitters behind him so that makes him good" is about as moronic a statement as you can make.

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There is every reason to think he won't improve because he sucks. He's done nothing but suck for his entire professional career. If you want to talk about the good players boston has be my guest but don't continue the fanatical thinking with this guy. But you don't really have much of a relationship with reality when it comes to red sox players...

The argument "he's fast and there are good hitters behind him so that makes him good" is about as moronic a statement as you can make.

So he sucks because you say he sucks? Is that the gist of your argument? He's had two full seasons and he was decent in those seasons. He was hurt last year. He's young and coming into his prime age for a career. I suppose we should write him off though because you say so.

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So he sucks because you say he sucks? Is that the gist of your argument? He's had two full seasons and he was decent in those seasons. He was hurt last year. He's young and coming into his prime age for a career. I suppose we should write him off though because you say so.

He sucks because his NUMBERS suck genius. You know how to use baseball reference. A 721 Career OPS is NOT decent. It's awful. If this was a yankee player you'd, rightly, be laughing your a$$ off if a yankee fan was engaging in this kind of fantastical thinking that he's just going to magically become good but since you're about the biggest homer ever you just can't see reality. Boston's would've wrote him off years ago if he had any trade value. He doesn't.

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He sucks because his NUMBERS suck genius. You know how to use baseball reference. A 721 Career OPS is NOT decent. It's awful. If this was a yankee player you'd, rightly, be laughing your a$$ off if a yankee fan was engaging in this kind of fantastical thinking that he's just going to magically become good but since you're about the biggest homer ever you just can't see reality. Boston's would've wrote him off years ago if he had any trade value. He doesn't.

So there aren't any players in the history of baseball to have a not so great OPS after two full seasons and then turn it around as they mature and get better? Never happened? Ever?

Okay, buddy. Whatever you say. You have no basis for your argument. You just keep talking until the season starts and games are actually played. Then we'll see what is what.

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So there aren't any players in the history of baseball to have a not so great OPS after two full seasons and then turn it around as they mature and get better? Never happened? Ever?

Okay, buddy. Whatever you say. You have no basis for your argument. You just keep talking until the season starts and games are actually played. Then we'll see what is what.

I have no basis for my argument? The only basis for you saying that he's anything better than complete crap is your wishful thinking as a Boston fan and that you HOPE he magically becomes good even though he's never been good at any point. Maybe Youkilis can give him some of whatever he took in the 07-08 offseason...

Edited by madmikeisback

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I have no basis for my argument? The only basis for you saying that he's anything better than complete crap is your wishful thinking as a Boston fan and that you HOPE he magically becomes good even though he's never been good at any point. Maybe Youkilis can give him some of whatever he took in the 07-08 offseason...

So now Youks took something? Okay. I'm done with you.

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So now Youks took something? Okay. I'm done with you.

I don't know if he did or not but you'd be hard pressed to find clean players who magically develop >500 SLG power at 29 years old... I know your homer brain just exploded haha

Edited by madmikeisback

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Lowerie sucks too.

This one, not so much. His only problem is health...even if he puts up the .739 OPS he put up at 24 he'd be an above average hitter at SS...

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You just keep talking until the season starts and games are actually played. Then we'll see what is what.

Seems to me that you are the one starting this thread, talking and talking.

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Seems to me that you are the one starting this thread, talking and talking.

I did start this thread. You're very observant. Congrats on that!

Anyone want to go back talking about actual baseball instead of drivel?

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If your among your reasons for rooting for any MLB team is the belief that your guys have not used PEDs, time to grow up. Suspect almsot everyone to some degree or another at some point in their career uses PEDs.Serious quibble with Sawx fans;w e've come to deal with Aroid, you guys are in denial over your PED users. And nobody really cares any more. The guys we see on the field are either using better chemists who are ahead of the testing. Far more outraged that our government wastes resources prosecuting Clemens, Bonds and now Lance Armstrong.

Edited by Bugg

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Ellsbury cant hit. Scutaro isnt awful...he's better suited as a backup guy, but with the Sox lineup he wont really hurt them.

We'll see how Youkilis responds to his injury. Ortiz looked completely finished during the first couple months last year but bounced back. Should be a fun year.

Edited by Matt39

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I did start this thread. You're very observant. Congrats on that!

Anyone want to go back talking about actual baseball instead of drivel?

Anything negative about any of your beloved red sox is drivel haha.

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If your among your reasons for rooting for any MLB team is the belief that your guys have not used PEDs, time to grow up. Suspect almsot everyone to some degree or another at some point in their career uses PEDs.Serious quibble with Sawx fans;w e've come to deal with Aroid, you guys are in denial over your PED users. And nobody really cares any more. The guys we see on the field are either using better chemists who are ahead of the testing. Far more outraged that our government wastes resources prosecuting Clemens, Bonds and now Lance Armstrong.

That's a rash generalization isn't it? There is no reason to suspect players because you think all of them did it. If there is proof go ahead and show me, until then there is no reason to disgrace anyone that hasn't been accused of it with significant evidence.

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Ellsbury cant hit. Scutaro isnt awful...he's better suited as a backup guy, but with the Sox lineup he wont really hurt them.

We'll see how Youkilis responds to his injury. Ortiz looked completely finished during the first couple months last year but bounced back. Should be a fun year.

Ellsbury is a career .291 hitter. He hit .301 in his last full season. Why can't he hit again?

Everything on the Sox injuries from last season are coming up fine. No one is being restricted at all. Heck, rumor has it Beckett is has been fiercely training and Lackey has lost 15 pounds.

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That's a rash generalization isn't it? There is no reason to suspect players because you think all of them did it. If there is proof go ahead and show me, until then there is no reason to disgrace anyone that hasn't been accused of it with significant evidence.

Who's suspecting? Every team had guys using PED's, including the Red Sox. No one team is above another in that regard. At this point though, who cares anyway?

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That's a rash generalization isn't it? There is no reason to suspect players because you think all of them did it. If there is proof go ahead and show me, until then there is no reason to disgrace anyone that hasn't been accused of it with significant evidence.

Do you think Jose Bautista did roids? Or Brady Anderson? When a player becomes a great power hitter overnight in their late 20s it's perfectly legitimate to suspect them. You just have a blind spot for any red sox player.

Edited by madmikeisback

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