shawn306 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Sooner or later you have to find out if Wilson can play. I would rather the Jets make Edwards and Holmes their top priorities, see what happens with Smith and let Cro walk and see if you can come up with a guy who can get to the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 the wr's are more important.. it's all about our pedo qb Agreed. Maybe we should draft a teenage WR, I'm sure they'd have great rapport. Clearly, opening up cap space to sign Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Haloti Ngata, Carmelo Anthony and Albert Pujols. Melo is a stretch. Plus, I dont think Schotty would know how to incorporate him in the offense. He'd be a waste of talent here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ofcourse I'd like to resign everyone, but thats unrealistic. If this report is accurate, its the smart thing to do. Mark Sanchez is the future, you must build around him. WR's of Edwards and Holmes talent are very hard to find. Keep the Fly Boys intact if it means you have to give up Cro. I just dont see how we could sign Nmandi...so I'm not even going there, but we can find a CB. Hell, we had the best pass defense in the league the year before with Lito Sheppard and Donald Strickland. We had the best pass defense in the league 2 years ago with those 2 guys because our pressure schemes were getting to the QB, or at the very least hurrying them to the point of bad decisions.That makes the Corners job much easier. If you can apply blitz pressure the CB has much less ground to cover and it eliminates the chance of a deep ball due to the time it takes for a deep play to develop. When teams learned how to deal with our blitz schemes late in the season it hurt us a lot in the Colts game that year. Its also why we had some secondary issues this year. While Cro is a good solid cover corner hes terrible in just about every other phase of defense. So if we can get someone in here who can apply some pressure on the QB and send Pace and Thomas packing I think we can easily get by with Wilson opposite Revis. Wilson knows how to cover, his only Issue that I saw was turning his head to play the ball, and that will come with time. I never saw the guy get burned badly he always seemed to be in tight he just needed to make some plays on the ball and get that clock in his head as to when the ball might be comming. If we figure out a way to get Nnamdi that will be basicly another Revis and we will only have to really worry about the middle of the field which we seemd to fix with some adjustments late in the season this year and in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 We had the best pass defense in the league 2 years ago with those 2 guys because our pressure schemes were getting to the QB, or at the very least hurrying them to the point of bad decisions.That makes the Corners job much easier. If you can apply blitz pressure the CB has much less ground to cover and it eliminates the chance of a deep ball due to the time it takes for a deep play to develop. When teams learned how to deal with our blitz schemes late in the season it hurt us a lot in the Colts game that year. Its also why we had some secondary issues this year. While Cro is a good solid cover corner hes terrible in just about every other phase of defense. So if we can get someone in here who can apply some pressure on the QB and send Pace and Thomas packing I think we can easily get by with Wilson opposite Revis. Wilson knows how to cover, his only Issue that I saw was turning his head to play the ball, and that will come with time. I never saw the guy get burned badly he always seemed to be in tight he just needed to make some plays on the ball and get that clock in his head as to when the ball might be comming. If we figure out a way to get Nnamdi that will be basicly another Revis and we will only have to really worry about the middle of the field which we seemd to fix with some adjustments late in the season this year and in the playoffs. I'm confused, not by what you've said, because thats Football, but what makes you think our scheme is so different that 2 years ago? Its the same system, same players (except in the secondary) and the same coaches. Why could we draw up the same schemes again? Are you saying teams go wise and now they've adjusted so we'll never have that success again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Does anybody know what we have in draft picks and where this April? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm confused, not by what you've said, because thats Football, but what makes you think our scheme is so different that 2 years ago? Its the same system, same players (except in the secondary) and the same coaches. Why could we draw up the same schemes again? Are you saying teams go wise and now they've adjusted so we'll never have that success again? you pretty much answered your own question JiF...yes, teams HAVE adjusted to the Jets' blitzing style of 2 years ago and we may not ever again have the success we had in '09 in doing that. Look at what happened to the Wildcat offense in such a short time. It went from a scheme that could bring a mediocre team with a noodle-armed QB to an 11 win AFCE Championship to hardly ever being used and when it is, and ineffective gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm confused, not by what you've said, because thats Football, but what makes you think our scheme is so different that 2 years ago? Its the same system, same players (except in the secondary) and the same coaches. Why could we draw up the same schemes again? Are you saying teams go wise and now they've adjusted so we'll never have that success again? Not saying that at all. What Im saying is teams adjusted to our blitzes by going over protect nullifying our blitz. You have to try something different at that point, and if you notice in the playoffs this year we blitzed alarming less and put 7 and 8 in coverage. Why NE and The Colts did not try to run that ball vs our defense in that scheme is just bad coaching but if you noticed the Steelers did and it killed us in the first half of that football game the halftime adjustment came a bit too late. When we were blitzing maniacs 2 years ago we were a very one dimentional defense having all the guys at the line not only put pressure but it allowed us to disguise blitzes and be effective vs the run. When teams go into protect mode its damn near impossible to get the quick pressure and it gives the QB much needed time to scan the field. We had to make a change because we do not have the type of front 7 that can play straight up and get pressure. The Steelers saw what we did vs the Colts and Pats and adapted very quickly and it won them the game. So yeah we did make some large scale changes in our defense to adapt to what teams expected from us. If we didnt make those changes we would never have gotten past the Colts and If we did, Brady would have eaten us alive rather than us eating him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 you pretty much answered your own question JiF...yes, teams HAVE adjusted to the Jets' blitzing style of 2 years ago and we may not ever again have the success we had in '09 in doing that. Look at what happened to the Wildcat offense in such a short time. It went from a scheme that could bring a mediocre team with a noodle-armed QB to an 11 win AFCE Championship to hardly ever being used and when it is, and ineffective gimmick. Meh, I'm not buying it my friend. Guys like Dick LeBeau have been drawing up the same exotic blitzes for decades and has great success till this day. Granted he has much better players, but the point remains the same. Plenty of coaches running the exact same schemes year after year and have success doing it. Me think Rex of all coaches, can figure out how to get to the QB...he just might need some better talent. Which goes back to my point, I dont think a CB is nearly as valued as building around the young QB. We had the best pass d in the league with guys less than JAGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not saying that at all. What Im saying is teams adjusted to our blitzes by going over protect nullifying our blitz. You have to try something different at that point, and if you notice in the playoffs this year we blitzed alarming less and put 7 and 8 in coverage. Why NE and The Colts did not try to run that ball vs our defense in that scheme is just bad coaching but if you noticed the Steelers did and it killed us in the first half of that football game the halftime adjustment came a bit too late. When we were blitzing maniacs 2 years ago we were a very one dimentional defense having all the guys at the line not only put pressure but it allowed us to disguise blitzes and be effective vs the run. When teams go into protect mode its damn near impossible to get the quick pressure and it gives the QB much needed time to scan the field. We had to make a change because we do not have the type of front 7 that can play straight up and get pressure. The Steelers saw what we did vs the Colts and Pats and adapted very quickly and it won them the game. So yeah we did make some large scale changes in our defense to adapt to what teams expected from us. If we didnt make those changes we would never have gotten past the Colts and If we did, Brady would have eaten us alive rather than us eating him yup...it's like they say Smash: "it's a copycat league" and teams learn very quickly now. Just look at us against the Patriots after getting destroyed by their new offense the first time we saw it. The second time we played against it in the playoffs we defended it completely different by knocking the receivers off of their short routes at the line of scrimmage by using whoever was the closest to any particular player at the time. Expect to see every team use that tactic against them next season-if there is one that is...hell we might even be able to win the frickin' division if the Patriots opponents are smart enough to watch the tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not saying that at all. What Im saying is teams adjusted to our blitzes by going over protect nullifying our blitz. You have to try something different at that point, and if you notice in the playoffs this year we blitzed alarming less and put 7 and 8 in coverage. Why NE and The Colts did not try to run that ball vs our defense in that scheme is just bad coaching but if you noticed the Steelers did and it killed us in the first half of that football game the halftime adjustment came a bit too late. When we were blitzing maniacs 2 years ago we were a very one dimentional defense having all the guys at the line not only put pressure but it allowed us to disguise blitzes and be effective vs the run. When teams go into protect mode its damn near impossible to get the quick pressure and it gives the QB much needed time to scan the field. We had to make a change because we do not have the type of front 7 that can play straight up and get pressure. The Steelers saw what we did vs the Colts and Pats and adapted very quickly and it won them the game. So yeah we did make some large scale changes in our defense to adapt to what teams expected from us. If we didnt make those changes we would never have gotten past the Colts and If we did, Brady would have eaten us alive rather than us eating him see my above post, I think you have to cater to your competition. Blitzing guys that are hard to get to and who can pick you apart, might not always be the best strategy, but the my point still remains in my above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 see my above post, I think you have to cater to your competition. Blitzing guys that are hard to get to and who can pick you apart, might not always be the best strategy, but the my point still remains in my above post. I think it does come right down to (like you said) the talent OF the guys blitzing. Now nobody on either board has been a bigger fan and supporter of Bryan Thomas since we drafted him. The guy has never complained and I can't remember him ever missing a game since we drafted him. he has everything the team has ever asked him to do, from going from DE to OLB they even tried him at NT one year. WTHBS, he still has that ability to virtually disappear for long stretches of any given season-we need a better option there. Pace? if he can ever stay healthy or not get suspended and have to spend half the season getting right he may yet become what we all hoped he could be. the Gholston pick still hurts this team, had he become what we needed and envisioned him to be...well, you know the rest. Jason Taylor was a crap shoot-clearly he wasn't what everybody (including Rex) thought he WOULD be; a 12 sack guy. We need a couple of new guys who can rush the passer at the OLBer positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 and this link just showed up over on Twitter: Eagles may look to add Asomugha Feb 17 The Eagles, though heavily committed to Asante Samuel, may be willing to pursue cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha according to Jonathan Tamari of the Philadelphia Inquirer. The team isn't ruling it out, at least not for salary cap reasons. "If we went or didn't go in any particular direction it wouldn't be because of the balance of the cap at that particular position," Eagles president Joe Banner said Tuesday. He was asked about the theory that the Eagles wouldn't give Asomugha a huge contract because they are already paying for one Pro Bowl cornerback -- Samuel -- and might not be able to address all their needs if they tie up so much salary cap space in one position. Banner's comments leave the door open for Asomugha speculation - rampant among many NFL fan bases - though he also didn't say anything to indicate that the Eagles would actually pursue the all-pro. He wouldn't comment directly on any individual players because free agency isn't yet open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 rex can do more with less on defense but without smoketonio and braywards our offense is in deep doo doo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Meh, I'm not buying it my friend. Guys like Dick LeBeau have been drawing up the same exotic blitzes for decades and has great success till this day. Granted he has much better players, but the point remains the same. Plenty of coaches running the exact same schemes year after year and have success doing it. Me think Rex of all coaches, can figure out how to get to the QB...he just might need some better talent. Which goes back to my point, I dont think a CB is nearly as valued as building around the young QB. We had the best pass d in the league with guys less than JAGS JIF you answered your own question again. When you have better players overall you can use many different schemes and also be effective playing straight up. Difference ? We dont have the players to play strtaight up across the board its really that simple. The reason our defense has been effective to the point of top 5 2 years in a row is mostly due to scheme. With schemes you go with them as long as they work once figured out if you dont change you lose. LeBeau has a lot more options to change on the fly than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 JIF you answered your own question again. When you have better players overall you can use many different schemes and also be effective playing straight up. Difference ? We dont have the players to play strtaight up across the board its really that simple. The reason our defense has been effective to the point of top 5 2 years in a row is mostly due to scheme. With schemes you go with them as long as they work once figured out if you dont change you lose. LeBeau has a lot more options to change on the fly than we do. yea, those two OLBers (not to mention Timmons behind them) he has at his disposal can cure a lot of the ills behind them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 JIF you answered your own question again. When you have better players overall you can use many different schemes and also be effective playing straight up. Difference ? We dont have the players to play strtaight up across the board its really that simple. The reason our defense has been effective to the point of top 5 2 years in a row is mostly due to scheme. With schemes you go with them as long as they work once figured out if you dont change you lose. LeBeau has a lot more options to change on the fly than we do. Yeah, but thats just one example. Kiffin, Williams, Rivera...all these guys still deploy the same D's no matter what talent they have...and Rex does too. He just realized what he was up against in the playoffs because he's that good. Blitzing is Rex's bread and butter. He'll go away from it when necessary, but it will never be too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Yeah, but thats just one example. Kiffin, Williams, Rivera...all these guys still deploy the same D's no matter what talent they have...and Rex does too. He just realized what he was up against in the playoffs because he's that good. Blitzing is Rex's bread and butter. He'll go away from it when necessary, but it will never be too far. yup-it was good to see him finally become flexible TO changing his style from the hammer approach of sending everybody to try and finish a game to one of playing multi coverage with 8 DBs back there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Giving a 2nd round pick for a 1 year rental, very Sather like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Giving a 2nd round pick for a 1 year rental, very Sather like. I don't think the Jets care TBJ. I think the team looks at the draft class and the players acquired by trading them away as one big bucket. In their minds they can just substitute Cro as the 5th they used on Santonio and look at that value instead. In retrospect who among us wouldn't give away last years' 2nd round pick for all the games Holmes single handedly won for us last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't think the Jets care TBJ. I think the team looks at the draft class and the players acquired by trading them away as one big bucket. In their minds they can just substitute Cro as the 5th they used on Santonio and look at that value instead. In retrospect who among us wouldn't give away last years' 2nd round pick for all the games Holmes single handedly won for us last year? I wouldn't, since we got him for a 5th. No matter how you spin this, waisting a 2nd on a 1 year rental is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I wouldn't, since we got him for a 5th. No matter how you spin this, waisting a 2nd on a 1 year rental is futile. and second round picks can be as ineffective as 7th rounders-Kellen Clemens is calling on line 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 and second round picks can be as ineffective as 7th rounders-Kellen Clemens is calling on line 2 Regardless, I still rather take my chances drafting a 2nd round pick, then waisting them on 1 year rentals. Are you really suggesting that burning them this way is a good thing, and sighting Kellen Clemens as you reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsnts725 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 gimme a pass rusher and this move will be worth it. A good pass rush can help a not so strong secondary. Plus we have a chance at keeping Holmes and Edwards with Cro gone. I really hope Kyle Wilson is ready though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Regardless, I still rather take my chances drafting a 2nd round pick, then waisting them on 1 year rentals. Are you really suggesting that burning them this way is a good thing, and sighting Kellen Clemens as you reasoning? no, I don't like how they give away so many draft picks bro. All I'm saying is I think the Jets under Tannenbaum seem to have a different philosophy than most other teams and they weigh ALL the moves made with each draft class and draft by what they get in return as a whole. Kind of like how NE cited the draft class that they got Randy Moss with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Cro gone only leaves another question mark on the defense. 2 shut down CBs help a defense look what it did last year without a pass rush. Now add that pass rush and you have a better defense. Cro cannot be let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I want someone to please tell me how this is a bad move. Re-signing Holmes and Edwards is better than re-signing Holmes or Edwards and Cromartie. Mark Sanchez is going into his 3rd year and it's time for his breakout season. Cromartie is going to get over-paid and he's been in the headlines numerous times already. No thanks. It's time for Wilson to step up. The Steelers made the Superbowl with slapdick CBs, the Jets can make it with Revis and Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 no, I don't like how they give away so many draft picks bro. All I'm saying is I think the Jets under Tannenbaum seem to have a different philosophy than most other teams and they weigh ALL the moves made with each draft class and draft by what they get in return as a whole. Kind of like how NE cited the draft class that they got Randy Moss with. I say any philosophy that involves burning 2nd's on 1 year rentals is dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsnts725 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I want someone to please tell me how this is a bad move. Re-signing Holmes and Edwards is better than re-signing Holmes or Edwards and Cromartie. Mark Sanchez is going into his 3rd year and it's time for his breakout season. Cromartie is going to get over-paid and he's been in the headlines numerous times already. No thanks. It's time for Wilson to step up. The Steelers made the Superbowl with slapdick CBs, the Jets can make it with Revis and Wilson. agreed. But the Steelers made it to the SB because they had two really good pass rushers in Woodley and Harrison to protect their slapdick CB's. Gonna need to find pass rushers in the draft and/or FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I want someone to please tell me how this is a bad move. Re-signing Holmes and Edwards is better than re-signing Holmes or Edwards and Cromartie. Mark Sanchez is going into his 3rd year and it's time for his breakout season. Cromartie is going to get over-paid and he's been in the headlines numerous times already. No thanks. It's time for Wilson to step up. The Steelers made the Superbowl with slapdick CBs, the Jets can make it with Revis and Wilson. Cro will not be over-paid. Are you serious about the Steelers? They also have Palumalu in the secondary we dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I want someone to please tell me how this is a bad move. Re-signing Holmes and Edwards is better than re-signing Holmes or Edwards and Cromartie. Mark Sanchez is going into his 3rd year and it's time for his breakout season. Cromartie is going to get over-paid and he's been in the headlines numerous times already. No thanks. It's time for Wilson to step up. The Steelers made the Superbowl with slapdick CBs, the Jets can make it with Revis and Wilson. I agree with this. The bad move was waisting a 2nd on him for 1 year of service, that resulted in yet another AFCC loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 agreed. But the Steelers made it to the SB because they had two really good pass rushers in Woodley and Harrison to protect their slapdick CB's. Gonna need to find pass rushers in the draft and/or FA. Along with Cro you build a #1 defense. Wilson didnt show me hes ready to or able to be a true shut down CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I agree with this. The bad move was waisting a 2nd on him for 1 year of service, that resulted in yet another AFCC loss. Agree you dont waste a #2 on a player for 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Did James Harrison and Polumalu even play in the playoffs? I don't remember their name being called once in 4 post-season games unless you want to count Polumalu getting burned twice for TDs. The Jets need to focus on getting a NT and a pass rusher. That will help us forget about Cromartie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Agree you dont waste a #2 on a player for 1 year. i love hindsight. you win some you lose some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I want someone to please tell me how this is a bad move. Re-signing Holmes and Edwards is better than re-signing Holmes or Edwards and Cromartie. Mark Sanchez is going into his 3rd year and it's time for his breakout season. Cromartie is going to get over-paid and he's been in the headlines numerous times already. No thanks. It's time for Wilson to step up. The Steelers made the Superbowl with slapdick CBs, the Jets can make it with Revis and Wilson. I totally agree Ghost-Santonio and Edwards are priorites 1 and 1A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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