RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 That's the problem though. Stephen A. put it best, unless he's the second coming of Dirk at THIS moment, nothing more needs to be said. By the time the league finds out how good Gallo is, Amare's knee is going to be toast. You're willing to not get Carmelo Anthony in order to find that one out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I do however think role players are a dime dozen in the grand scheme of things. Look back at the role players who have elevated and helped the past few teams reach a championship, or get there. Where are they now? Most of them arent on that team any longer, went got a nice pay day, and now you hear nothing about them. Yes, if there's one thing that guys like Steve Kerr and Robert Horry will be remembered for in their careers, it's brevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yes, and he's got a dozen rings. Nowitzki's a great player, but he ain't the cornerstone of a championship dynasty. I want the Knicks to seriously contend for a championsip, not be a guaranteed early exit from the playoffs despite being one of the top seeds every year like Nowitzki's Mavs. Sure the Mavs have the second best record in the West right now. Does anybody really think they are getting past the Lakers or Spurs? I was simply responding to a post that stated that a Euro will never "dominate or differentiate your team". He carried his team to the Finals and had to get past San Antonio and Phoenix in the process. As far as rings, go back and re-watch the '06 Finals after the Mavs went up 2-0. You will be hard-pressed to find an example of more one-sided officiating than in that series. It was borderline criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Role players just happen to be on good teams with stars. There aren't any role players on bad teams. Pretty much every non star in the NBA is interchangeable unless you're a defensive center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yes, if there's one thing that guys like Steve Kerr and Robert Horry will be remembered for in their careers, it's brevity. Nice. You just named the 2 most fortunate role players in the history of the NBA as your defense that role players arent a dime a dozen. Okay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 You will be hard-pressed to find an example of more one-sided officiating than in that series. It was borderline criminal. Kings. Lakers. Donaghy game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 That's the problem though. Stephen A. put it best, unless he's the second coming of Dirk at THIS moment, nothing more needs to be said. By the time the league finds out how good Gallo is, Amare's knee is going to be toast. You're willing to not get Carmelo Anthony in order to find that one out? Completely misreading why I posted that... it was only to dispute the assertion that no Euro has ever carried a franchise in this league and had nothing to do with the Knicks, Melo, or Gallinari. Gallo will never be Dirk... their games aren't even similar IMO. Dirk is lethal just pulling up and draining it from anywhere, whereas Gallo is capable of either driving (when he feels like it) or launching 3's... his mid-range game is practically non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Kings. Lakers. Donaghy game. I meant for an entire series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Gallo will never be Dirk... their games aren't even similar IMO. I don't know, they're both scrappy and team players. Tough too, and they play that fundamental ball that just seems like the way the game's supposed to be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The question then is, what's the ceiling of a team with two offensive forces in the frontcourt (neither of whom is a plus defender), a mediocre PG (once Billups is gone), a glue guy at SG, some barely serviceable bigs, and a short bench? More than this it begs the question of whether the 2010 plan was a stupid idea to begin with. I mean, if you consider that the roster deficiencies were risks inherent in the plan, that no combination of the other guys was really an acceptable substitute for landing LeBron, and that other teams were always going to be in a better position to implement our own plan than we were when the time came because Isiah had the roster so badly ****ed, and if we're not satisfied with year zero producing a core of Fields, Stoudemire, and Anthony, what exactly were we supposed to have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Nice. You just named the 2 most fortunate role players in the history of the NBA as your defense that role players arent a dime a dozen. Okay... I don't know that "fortunate" is the word I would use to describe Horry. It wasn't by chance that multiple championship-caliber teams enlisted his services. He didn't earn the nickname Big Shot Rob by sheer luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't know, they're both scrappy and team players. Tough too, and they play that fundamental ball that just seems like the way the game's supposed to be played. I think you just described every big, white, Euro to ever play in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I think you just described every big, white, Euro to ever play in the NBA. I think he just described the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I think you just described every big, white, Euro to ever play in the NBA. Correct. Now rep me and praise my collection of kicks bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 More than this it begs the question of whether the 2010 plan was a stupid idea to begin with. I mean, if you consider that the roster deficiencies were risks inherent in the plan, that no combination of the other guys was really an acceptable substitute for landing LeBron, and that other teams were always going to be in a better position to implement our own plan than we were when the time came because Isiah had the roster so badly ****ed, and if we're not satisfied with year zero producing a core of Fields, Stoudemire, and Anthony, what exactly were we supposed to have done? I think not landing LeBron was a huge blow, as it's clear that all max players are not created equal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissatisfied today in the least. I'm just tempering my expectations and mentally preparing myself to be dissatisfied 2-3 years from now, as they are now in CP3/Deron/Howard-or-bust mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 More than this it begs the question of whether the 2010 plan was a stupid idea to begin with. I mean, if you consider that the roster deficiencies were risks inherent in the plan, that no combination of the other guys was really an acceptable substitute for landing LeBron, and that other teams were always going to be in a better position to implement our own plan than we were when the time came because Isiah had the roster so badly ****ed, and if we're not satisfied with year zero producing a core of Fields, Stoudemire, and Anthony, what exactly were we supposed to have done? Plan B on the fly. Have to say I'm pretty satisfied with it. If you had a Delorean and went back to 2007 and found me sitting in the Garden admiring Malik Rose's bench cheering abilities, and said to me: "Hey RutgersJetFan, in a couple years you'll have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, so cheer up;" not gonna lie, I'd probably kick you in the nuts for playing with my emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't know that "fortunate" is the word I would use to describe Horry. It wasn't by chance that multiple championship-caliber teams enlisted his services. He didn't earn the nickname Big Shot Rob by sheer luck. Basically both my points I've made this thread have been countered by naming 1 of 2 players. That doesnt do anything for me. Dirk - great player, can definitely build around him, but he's 1 player out of how many Euro's that have come through...and he's not a champion and he's a jump shooter really...not much more. Horry - great, one role player in the history of the NBA who has longevity. Kerr on the other hand, was most definitely a fortunate player. Was his skill set something in demand, sure. But is he the key role player that helped the Bulls or the Spurs get over the top...no, not at all, they were winning before he arrived to both places. Both guys hit big shots...but its not like you were going to rely on them to truly elevate your team. And further, Horry was the 11th overall draft pick in his draft. He wasnt drafted to be a role player, just ended up that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Plan B on the fly. Have to say I'm pretty satisfied with it. If you had a Delorean and went back to 2007 and found me sitting in the Garden admiring Malik Rose's bench cheering abilities, and said to me: "Hey RutgersJetFan, in a couple years you'll have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, so cheer up;" not gonna lie, I'd probably kick you in the nuts for playing with my emotions. Not to mention that they upgraded in that department with Turiaf as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Basically both my points I've made this thread have been countered by naming 1 of 2 players. That doesnt do anything for me. Dirk - great player, can definitely build around him, but he's 1 player out of how many Euro's that have come through...and he's not a champion and he's a jump shooter really...not much more. Horry - great, one role player in the history of the NBA who has longevity. Kerr on the other hand, was most definitely a fortunate player. Was his skill set something in demand, sure. But is he the key role player that helped the Bulls or the Spurs get over the top...no, not at all, they were winning before he arrived to both places. Both guys hit big shots...but its not like you were going to rely on them to truly elevate your team. And further, Horry was the 11th overall draft pick in his draft. He wasnt drafted to be a role player, just ended up that way. You're underrating Dirk. He's a top 10 guy in the league.Can score from anywhere, rebounds and can handle the ball. The 06 championship was handed to Wade and the Heat. And Horry was with LA, not Chicago....but I agree with your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Dirk - great player, [...] he's a jump shooter really...not much more. Might need to go back and watch some game film on him if that's truly what you think and not just an attempt to prove a point. And further, Horry was the 11th overall draft pick in his draft. He wasnt drafted to be a role player, just ended up that way. The guy has the most rings in the post-merger era and was a key contributor on every one of them. How many other lottery picks would trade resumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Might need to go back and watch some game film on him if that's truly what you think and not just an attempt to prove a point. The guy has the most rings in the post-merger era and was a key contributor on every one of them. How many other lottery picks would trade resumes? That's a stretch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissatisfied today in the least. I'm just tempering my expectations and mentally preparing myself to be dissatisfied 2-3 years from now, as they are now in CP3/Deron/Howard-or-bust mode. There are worse places to be than CP3/Deron/Howard-or-bust mode with Fields and Chauncey's contract toward making it happen, let alone having even an outside shot at adding one of them as a free agent. I mean, if you know three years ago that LeBron and Bosh are going to join Wade in Miami, what's the plan then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Not to mention that they upgraded in that department with Turiaf as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1hwOyPQZgk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 You're underrating Dirk. He's a top 10 guy in the league.Can score from anywhere, rebounds and can handle the ball. The 06 championship was handed to Wade and the Heat. And Horry was with LA, not Chicago....but I agree with your point. I was referring to Kerr, he joined the Bulls and the Spurs when they were already a championship team. Might need to go back and watch some game film on him if that's truly what you think and not just an attempt to prove a point. The guy has the most rings in the post-merger era and was a key contributor on every one of them. How many other lottery picks would trade resumes? Dirk is a good player. Never said any different, he wants the jump shot though. I've watched enough of him to know what I see. What makes him challenging to defend is his size, he does nothing special other than he's light out. Again, a good player, not a champion. And my point still remains, we are talking about 1 player out of how many Euro's? I'm confused with your point on Horry...not only is he just 1 example...again...that doesnt help either of your cases...he was a lottery pick. So which is it, a lottery pick with a great resume and rings or a role player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 There are worse places to be than CP3/Deron/Howard-or-bust mode with Fields and Chauncey's contract toward making it happen, let alone having even an outside shot at adding one of them as a free agent. I mean, if you know three years ago that LeBron and Bosh are going to join Wade in Miami, what's the plan then? Not to mention that you're not really in "or bust" mode at all when you've got three entirely viable and very possible options and all you really need is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon63 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 You sound afraid. This move wasn't about this year. This move is about next year and beyond. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudamire >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh. Get it now? My team has 17 NBA Championships, has been to the Finals 2 out of the last 3 years (and won one), and has the 2nd-best record in the league right now, beating out top competition. Yeah, REAAAAL afraid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 My team has 17 NBA Championships, has been to the Finals 2 out of the last 3 years (and won one), and has the 2nd-best record in the league right now, beating out top competition. Yeah, REAAAAL afraid.... And is older than dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 My team has 17 NBA Championships Man, that really must have been something for you, getting to witness all 17 of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 My team has 17 NBA Championships, has been to the Finals 2 out of the last 3 years (and won one), and has the 2nd-best record in the league right now, beating out top competition. Yeah, REAAAAL afraid.... And yet you have michael jordan in your sig. What a big time celts fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 There are worse places to be than CP3/Deron/Howard-or-bust mode with Fields and Chauncey's contract toward making it happen, let alone having even an outside shot at adding one of them as a free agent. I mean, if you know three years ago that LeBron and Bosh are going to join Wade in Miami, what's the plan then? The only way Billups' contract helps is if they are able to pull off a deal at the deadline next year and I don't see how they'd have the assets to pull it off with Fields and a 2016 #1 pick being their two most attractive pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 And yet you have michael jordan in your sig. What a big time celts fan... + 1. That makes no sense. Kids these days. So confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Not to mention that you're not really in "or bust" mode at all when you've got three entirely viable and very possible options and all you really need is one of them. Obviously they can't land more than one of the 3 and it would seem that Howard is the least likely to relocate. You are in "or bust" mode, because if you fail to land one of them, then you're looking at a roster of Amar'e/Melo/Fields and ...? Who are they spending that cap money on to fill out a roster that's supposed to compete for a title? Kirk Hinrich? DJ Augustin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The only way Billups' contract helps is if they are able to pull off a deal at the deadline next year and I don't see how they'd have the assets to pull it off with Fields and a 2016 #1 pick being their two most attractive pieces. We'll see. Another deal's happening by Thursday most definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The only way Billups' contract helps is if they are able to pull off a deal at the deadline next year and I don't see how they'd have the assets to pull it off with Fields and a 2016 #1 pick being their two most attractive pieces. Fields is an excellent piece, but yes, doing a deal like that would probably have to entail turning the MLE and whatever exception we get from Minnesota into tradable commodities that enable us to match salaries with the third star and whatever Okafor-type contract we'd be required to take on. And it's not like just keeping Fields would be such a sh*tty consolation prize anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'd love to see them be able to add Pryzbela or Verajao by the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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