Klecko73isGod Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The basketball board has life Of course it does. The Knicks are relevant for the first time in a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Of course it does. The Knicks are relevant for the first time in a decade. I don't think the Knicks were ever not relevant. They just sucked a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I don't think the Knicks were ever not relevant. They just sucked a$$. In all fairness we did make the playoffs in '03 hah. Only to be jettisoned in the first round by the ****ers a few miles south, if i'm not mistaken. I can't tell ya how nice it is to finely talk hoops again with coherent fans. Living in Boston all I got was the average college fan boy who liked the celtics by default. I remember going to those games my freshman year for $10 bucks and walking down to the a few rows behind the bench. Actually shook hands with Marc Cuban in '04, he was going nuts. You can tell the guy just loves his guys and would do anything for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Actually shook hands with Marc Cuban in '04, he was going nuts. You can tell the guy just loves his guys and would do anything for them. Free chalupas FTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Free chalupas FTW. Lol at the Chalupa shots. I remember when Steve Nash took a bow to the crowd how many years back when he hit the free throw to put em at 100, the place when absolutely berzerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Simmons' take, major parts in bold, hits the nail on the head as usual when it comes to NBA deals. It's worth noting that for the last several deals in the timeline, he was all over them at the time in the same manner and was right about it each time: THE KNICKS: A-minus I was stunned that my Knicks fan buddies were split over the Carmelo trade. Some loved it, some thought they gave up too much. The dissenters made the same point: "Why give up that much when we could just sign him this summer?" Here's the problem: the Nuggets knew that (A) Carmelo was never signing an extension in New Jersey, and ( Carmelo wanted a $65 million extension as much as he wanted to play for the Knicks. Their savviest play was to keep him past the deadline and play the odds: something like a 90 percent chance that Carmelo would have grabbed the $65 million and a 10 percent chance that he would have been stupidly stubborn enough to say, "I'm out of here, I don't care if it costs me $20 million, I'm gone." Few NBA players would ever do that, and no self-respecting agent would ever allow that. It just wouldn't happen. Their move would be to sign the extension, play hard for the rest of the season, then push for a trade that summer. At that point, Denver could have had 29 teams bidding for him instead of one. Everyone wins. That's what terrified the Knicks: Seven months of foreplay going up in smoke because Denver played those 90 percent odds and said, "Screw it, let's keep him." So why didn't the Nuggets do that? Because they're being run by a rookie general manager (Masai Ujiri) and a rookie figurehead (Josh Kroenke, the 30-year-old son of owner Stan Kroenke), neither of whom wanted to kick off their Nuggets reign by becoming the two bumbling idiots who rolled the dice on a Carmelo extension, then watched him skip off to New York for nothing. Denver needed to save face with a decent deal, which it did: Danilo Gallinari, a future No. 1 pick, a year and a half of Wilson Chandler, a giant trade exception and a severe payroll slash. And the Knicks nailed a rare chance to land another superstar who wanted to play for them -- in the James Dolan Era, not exactly a common occurrence -- instead of keeping their fingers crossed for the 2012 free agent class and Amare's knee ligaments not to turn into two bowls of fettucini. Of course ... AGREEING WITH A DECISION PUSHED BY JAMES DOLAN AND ISIAH THOMAS: D-minus Reports of a Dolan/Isiah collaboration framed the opinions of Knicks fans across the world: If Dolan and Isiah agreed on something, then naturally, that's something they shouldn't want. I get that. Believe me. But Anthony Randolph was a sunk cost. Timofey Mozgov is a 24-year-old, relatively clumsy center with bad hands who played ONE good game all season. And Chauncey Billups and Ray Felton cancel each other out for this season and next. I think Billups will fare better than Felton did in New York -- he's a killer 3-point shooter, he's been in a ton of big games and he'll play with an edge because he's probably pissed off that everyone regarded him as a throw-in for this trade. He's also never played for a team with two A-list scorers before. And you can't leave him open from outside. (He shoots 44 percent on 3-pointers; Felton shoots 33 percent. Just sayin'.) But for the purposes of this trade, it's a wash: You're getting solid production in 2011 and 2012 either way. So really, the trade came down to the Knicks getting Carmelo for Gallinari, Chandler and a 2014 No. 1 pick. Gallinari will never make an All-Star team, but he's a dangerous streak shooter; Knicks fans loved him; he wasn't afraid of big moments; and with Derek Jeter getting married, he was the prohibitive favorite to become the New York Athlete Who Spends The Next 10 Years Plowing Through Every Model And Celebrity In The Tri-State Area. Chandler? A solid small forward putting up inflated stats in a run-and-gun system; on any contender, he's an eighth or ninth man. Don't you flip Chandler, Gallo and a pick for Carmelo every day and twice on Sunday? Don't you do it without blinking? What am I missing? I'm on Team Dolan & Team Isiah with this one. I will now light myself on fire with a JD & The Straight Shot poster. PEOPLE WHO FORGET THAT YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TRADE THREE OR FOUR QUARTERS FOR A DOLLAR IN BASKETBALL: F-minus If you disagree with the previous few paragraphs, you're bucking five solid decades of NBA history. Since 1965, not one NBA team that traded a package of pieces for a superstar regretted it after the fact. Don't believe me? Here's the complete list: 1965: Philly trades Connie Dierking, Paul Neumann, Lee Shaffer and cash to San Francisco for Wilt Chamberlain. 1968: Lakers trade Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrell Imhoff to Philly for Wilt Chamberlain. 1970: Milwaukee trades Flynn Robinson and Charlie Paulk to Cincinnati for Oscar Robertson. 1975: Lakers trade Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Dave Meyers and Junior Bridgeman to Milwaukee for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. 1983: Philly trades Caldwell Jones and Cleveland's 1983 first-rounder (No. 3, Rodney McCray) to Houston for Moses Malone. 1993: Phoenix trades Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang to Philly for Charles Barkley. 1994: Washington trades Tom Gugliotta, 1996 first-rounder (No. 11, Todd Fuller), 1998 first (No. 13, Keon Clark) and 2000 first (No. 7, Chris Mihm) to Golden State for Chris Webber. 1996: Houston trades Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Chucky Brown and Mark Bryant to Phoenix for Charles Barkley. 1996: Phoenix trades Michael Finley, Sam Cassell, A.C. Green and a 1998 No. 2 (No. 53, Greg Buckner) for Jason Kidd, Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer. 1999: Phoenix trades Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, 2001 first-rounder (No. 18, Jason Collins) and 2002 first (No. 9, Amare Stoudemire) to Orlando for Penny Hardaway. 2004: Houston trades Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Tyronn Lue, Reece Gaines and Juwan Howard. 2005: New Jersey trades Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Philly's 2005 No. 1 pick (No. 16, Joey Graham) and a 2006 No. 1 (No. 20, Renaldo Balkman) to Toronto for Vince Carter. 2005: Miami trades Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler, a 2006 No. 1 (No. 26, Jordan Farmar) and a 2006 No. 2 (No. 50, Renaldas Seibutis) to the Lakers for Shaquille O'Neal. 2007: Boston trades Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 No. 1 (No. 28, Wayne Ellington) and the rights to Minnesota's 2009 No. 1 (No. 6, Jonny Flynn) to Minnesota for Kevin Garnett. 2008: Lakers trade Kwame Brown, Jarvaris Crittendon, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol, a 2008 No. 1 (No. 28, Donte Greene) and a 2010 No. 1 (No. 28, Greivis Vasquez) to Memphis for Pau Gasol. That's 15 trades in all. Eight of them (Wilt, Wilt again, Oscar, Moses, Barkley, Shaq, KG and Gasol) resulted in a championship or a Finals appearance within two seasons. The Lakers ended up winning five titles with Kareem. Houston came within two wins and a Matt Maloney meltdown of making the '97 Finals with Barkley. Jersey easily won the Vince trade; same for Houston with T-Mac. Phoenix won the Kidd trade, although Finley had a nice career in Dallas. Washington's Webber deal could have backfired if any of the picks panned out ... but they didn't. Only Phoenix's Penny deal failed to work out, but in a strange twist, the Suns got their No. 1 pick back in a subsequent deal and took Stoudemire with it, so even THAT trade worked out. Fifteen for 15! When in doubt, you always want to grab the dollar bill if you're giving up change in the NBA. PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALIZE THAT CARMELO IS A LEGITIMATE SUPERSTAR: F-minus-minus One of the strangest subplots this week: Everyone rushing to pick Carmelo's game apart, especially people who rely on advanced metrics and ended up getting caught up in small-picture stuff. Carmelo has one elite skill (he rebounds extremely well for a small forward) and one transcendent skill (he's as good as anyone in the league at scoring and/or getting to the line, especially in crunch time). You can absolutely, positively, unquestionably win a championship if Carmelo Anthony is your creator at the end of a basketball game. The Knicks didn't have anyone like that. Few teams do. Now throw this in: He's only 26. Now throw this in: Ten guys started the 2011 All-Star Game. In a 30-team league, the Knicks suddenly have two of them. Now throw this in: The other players know. They know who's good. They know who's worth a damn. They know who they'd go to war with. So you can't discount (A) how well Carmelo played on the 2008 Olympic team; ( how much the other guys respected him; and © how the key guys on that team were Kobe, LeBron, Wade and Carmelo. It can't be forgotten. It just can't. Neither can the fact that he nearly carried a limited Nuggets team to the Finals two years ago. Now throw this in: If there was ever a player who could be ignited by a great basketball city and a consistently fantastic crowd, it's Carmelo Anthony. He's been stuck in a relatively icy cruise control for two solid years, playing in a city he didn't totally love, being professional about it, trying hard every game ... and yet, there was something detached about him. No longer. I hate how he weaseled his way to the Knicks and pissed on Denver fans, but that's over. Let's look at this thing objectively: He's going to kill it with the Knicks. I'd bet anything. They haven't had someone like this since Bernard King, which is funny because I always thought Melo was Bernard 2.0. Playing in New York isn't for everyone, but in this case, it will be the best thing that ever happened to Carmelo Anthony. I keep hearing that you can't win a title with Melo and Amare. Agreed. But you can win the title with Carmelo, Amare and Chris Paul (or Dwight Howard, or Deron Williams). In the short term, you can make some noise, rock the building and make Knicks fans forget about the 10 excruciating years they just endured. And you can scare the living hell out of the fans from the other Eastern contenders. Believe me, as a Celtics fan, I want no part of the Knicks this spring for one reason: You never want to play a playoff series in which the other team has the best guy. There's a decent chance Carmelo could just go off 1984 Bernard-style in Round 1 or Round 2. I'm crapping my pants just thinking about it. Over everything else, THAT is why they had to make this trade. A week ago, the Knicks were a .500 team. Now, they matter. And if you're throwing stats at me, I'll counter with this one: 15 for 15. Thank you and please drive through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 2. And essentially we added offensive weapons. But offense was never the problem. It was the lousy defense. And the centerpiece to this trade is a guy that has never been known to play defense. Believe me, i have watched him play in person a quite a few occassions. And so we got even lousier defensively. 3. Loss of Raymond Felton. Not so sure how this factor plays out. But he sure was a great fit for D'Antoni's offense. We will see if Billups ( who i love to see play) can fit the bill in D'Antoni's system. Nice calls dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Thanks for posting Simmons' article, Rutgers. He was spot on. The media/fan denigration of Melo's game was ridiculous. Huge win by the Knicks, thanks in large part because of the Knicks' "Big 3." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Nice calls dude. You waited 5 days to respond ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Huge win by the Knicks. Hope the defense that was in the final 3 quarters shows up for every game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You waited 5 days to respond ? How about no. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97059&view=findpost&p=1790009 Sorry you missed it, guess you were too busy playing the 'waaahhhh you called me dumb' card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 How about no. http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97059&view=findpost&p=1790009 Sorry you missed it, guess you were too busy playing the 'waaahhhh you called me dumb' card. And yet you feel a need to re-respond in 5 days! That's like a gazillions years in interwebz terms. Why so dooshey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 the Knicks' "Big 3." It's an interesting claim actually. The Garden has a funny way of rejuvenating new life into players like Chauncey. If tonight proved anything it's that we're infinitely better athletically with Melo on the floor and there's not as many retarded shots being thrown up from our backcourt. Billups is twice the player Felton is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If tonight proved anything it's that we're infinitely better athletically with Melo on the floor and there's not as many retarded shots being thrown up from our backcourt. That's just the thing, though. We won that game with plenty of retarded shots being thrown up from our backcourt and without our best defensive player for basically the entire fourth quarter because Fields went 1-for-8 and got pulled. I didn't understand that at all. I'm all for expanding the rotation, but taking Fields out of a low-scoring slopfest just because his shot isn't falling is D'Antoni at his worst. We have shooters, for god's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That's just the thing, though. We won that game with plenty of retarded shots being thrown up from our backcourt Oh come on, there's a difference between poor shot selection and just being off. Can't blame a dude for testing out his long range jumper when his mid isn't falling. Last night was oddly coached though, I do agree with that one. The inbound to Walker still has me puzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Oh come on, there's a difference between poor shot selection and just being off. Can't blame a dude for testing out his long range jumper when his mid isn't falling. Last night was oddly coached though, I do agree with that one. The inbound to Walker still has me puzzled. That play made no sense. Walker? With a one-point lead? I can understand not drawing one up for Melo or Amare because they'd be keying on them but draw up a play for someone who is at least remotely competent offensively like Toney Douglas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That play made no sense. Walker? With a one-point lead? I can understand not drawing one up for Melo or Amare because they'd be keying on them but draw up a play for someone who is at least remotely competent offensively like Toney Douglas. I think Walker's very good offensively, and he played very well last night. But that's just not the time of the game that you give it to Bill Walker. The entire point of getting multiple superstars is that you get to give one of them the ball in situations like that because there are too many to guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think Walker's very good offensively, and he played very well last night. But that's just not the time of the game that you give it to Bill Walker. The entire point of getting multiple superstars is that you get to give one of them the ball in situations like that because there are too many to guard. Fair point. I'd just like to see Douglas start getting some more PT. Kid's been very good at times. If he can become a consistent scorer holy crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That play made no sense. Walker? With a one-point lead? I can understand not drawing one up for Melo or Amare because they'd be keying on them but draw up a play for someone who is at least remotely competent offensively like Toney Douglas. Its not even that, there was time left on the shot clock that they should have been trying to run off...to force a play under the basket in a weird angle like that made no sense. Just get it inbounds, set up at the top of the key and iso 2 of the better iso players in the game while running the clock down further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Its not even that, there was time left on the shot clock that they should have been trying to run off...to force a play under the basket in a weird angle like that made no sense. Just get it inbounds, set up at the top of the key and iso 2 of the better iso players in the game while running the clock down further. There were only four second left on the shot clock there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 There were only four second left on the shot clock there. Really? Why did I think it restarted? Never mind me....carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Preferably I'd rather the ball be in Melo or Amar'e's hands (lol at the punctuational nightmare), but Walker should have had an open look if he didn't bobble the ball. I also believe Chauncey was a split-second late in getting the pass off. Anyways, I think it could have worked if executed properly, but not the play I'd like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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