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Gas Prices.......weeeeeeeeeeee


vinnys025
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You're right. We do need to get away from oil given the pollutants. Its "yesterdays" type of resource if you will. Problem is the industry wouldnt want to lose all that power/money to much safer, more plentiful (less reliant) resource. Carbon isnt the issue though, its not a toxin but plant food. I didnt know that carbon had a footprint.

it will happen eventually, oil is a finite resource so we'll have no choice. personally i'm rooting for it, stop sending so much money into that f'd up part of the world.

Burning fossil fuels is an issue, for carbon specifically there's the greenhouse effect and climate change.

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You're right. We do need to get away from oil given the pollutants. Its "yesterdays" type of resource if you will. Problem is the industry wouldnt want to lose all that power/money to much safer, more plentiful (less reliant) resource. Carbon isnt the issue though, its not a toxin but plant food. I didnt know that carbon had a footprint.

Carbon is much more than just "plant food", lol.

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it will happen eventually, oil is a finite resource so we'll have no choice. personally i'm rooting for it, stop sending so much money into that f'd up part of the world.

Burning fossil fuels is an issue, for carbon specifically there's the greenhouse effect and climate change.

I see your point. The problem is we're in deals with that part of the world. To me and you of course its simple. Stop spending the money over there and develop our own oil and natural resources. In reality it cant happen. Saudi arabia owns alot of U.S. Bonds, they also have alot of money within the US Market. I have a feeling that when the US finally stops buying that oil (for whatever reason that is) you'll see that entire part of the world, including China, stop buying US debt. Thats not good for the citizens because this system is so dependent on others buying our debt (unfortunately).

If we want to get off their oil, we must first realize that our level of living must be reduced dramatically.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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I see your point. The problem is we're in deals with that part of the world. To me and you of course its simple. Stop spending the money over there and develop our own oil and natural resources. In reality it cant happen. Saudi arabia owns alot of U.S. Bonds, they also have alot of money in our banks. I have a feeling that when the US finally stops buying that oil (for whatever reason that is) you'll see that entire part of the world, including China, stop buying US debt. Thats not good for the citizens because this system is so dependent on others buying our debt.

If we want to get off their oil, we must first realize that our level of living must be reduced dramatically.

Totally agree. It's been out of hand for awhile, but this thing really went out of hand when the dot com bubble burst and monetary policy loosers then crushrs belly fat

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If I was storing food, which I am not, I wouldn't post it on the internet. It is a lot like the Twilight Zone episode with the guy who built a bomb shelter. Everyone thought he was crazy until it was needed. Then they took it from him, lol.

True, and with the fact that I havent come to the point of buying guns that may not be a good situation. However, for the record, if the food is ever needed knock on my door. I'd share with my buddy Max. :D

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True, and with the fact that I havent come to the point of buying guns that may not be a good situation. However, for the record, if the food is ever needed knock on my door. I'd share with my buddy Max. :D

Awesome. Thanks.

What kind of food you got? :P

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I totally agree. One thing that its not though is a toxin. Its an element and a vital element at that which was my point.

I'm not going to try giving the biochem explanation of how carbon can be toxic as certain molecules, but when people refer to "carbon footprints", they are talking about carbon dioxide, which in abundance causes global warming blah blah blah. I know where this is headed and I don't want to get into it so we'll just say it can be toxic. :lol:

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I'm not going to try giving the biochem explanation of how carbon can be toxic as certain molecules, but when people refer to "carbon footprints", they are talking about carbon dioxide, which in abundance causes global warming blah blah blah. I know where this is headed and I don't want to get into it so we'll just say it can be toxic. :lol:

yes,i was referring to carbon dioxide.. i assumed that was clear

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Awesome. Thanks.

What kind of food you got? :P

Dehydrated food from efoodsdirect.com. The food is actually pretty damn good I have to admit. Got about a years worth. Working on tripling that (better to have too much than too little). Working on "mountain house" food to diversify the meals. Also purchased a 5lb bucket of hemp hearts today. Pretty nutritious stuff. The great thing about it is, if im wrong I can always eat my investment lol. From the looks of it food is going to get even more expensive with diesel fuel already over 4 dollars a gallon and rising.

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I'm not going to try giving the biochem explanation of how carbon can be toxic as certain molecules, but when people refer to "carbon footprints", they are talking about carbon dioxide, which in abundance causes global warming blah blah blah. I know where this is headed and I don't want to get into it so we'll just say it can be toxic. :lol:

You know where this is headed? lol. I dont understand, I was conversing with CTM and you asked a question. You're making it seem like im baiting you to into a debate or something. I didnt even say anything to you. lmao.

However, for the sake of entertainment and for the fact that im bored at work I'll post this link http://edoerksen.blogspot.com/2011/01/co2-does-not-cause-climate-change-never.html

and then let you know that I was actually avoiding a debate by not criticizing or stating that I dont believe in the global warming theories and just kept it on the price of gas. I guess you sensed that I dont agree with Al Gore and decided to make it seem like I was trying to "head" this convo into a particular direction. I think thats you sir...but I dont mind. I like these type of conversations anyway and you're cool to speak to. :Loveheart:

Edited by villain_the_foe
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There are ways to delete the DPF. It sounds like youre describing a Ford?

Yes I know. I went with the Banks tuner that keeps the DPF on, big mistake. I now know how to remove the DPF, but I need to find someone to buy my Banks tuner so I can buy a Spartan of H&S. 6.4 Powerstoke. Love my truck, hate the DPF.

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Libya only produces 2% of the worlds oil supply. They will jack the prices up anyway.

This may be true, but there is some action stirring in Saudi and Iran as well with uprisings, and I'm sure they would do the same...which would mean real trouble at the pumps. Also, how do you think the housing market will respond to this? Remember the last time oil went to 150$ a gallon?

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Just going off the top of my head but can't you make fuel out of hydrogen peroxide? In high concentrations it's used to power jets at 90% I believe. We get the 3% stuff and put it on our wounds. It's super oxygen, and it's EXTREMELY cheap to make.

On a side note Hydrogen Peroxide is very good for you if you get the food grade hydrogen peroxide, you can take baths with it and you would be amazed at how good you feel when your done. Ever come in from a rain storm all soaked and then when you get dry you feel really good? Well, that's the H202 that water droplets pick up on their way down through it's descent....refreshing. Glad I got off topic...lol

Edited by vinnys025
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They're allies because they've agreed to buy US debt through bonds and sell their oil in federal notes. This is slowly cracking. Iran now sells oil in other currencies except the dollar. Iraq began to sell in Euro, before the invasion. China and Russia just made a bilateral trade agreement about 3 months ago to use the RMB & Rouble in their trade which includes russian oil. Thailand just purchased barrels of crude as a store of wealth and used their US dollar holdings to do so.

Not to mention that the Saudi's have overstated their amount of oil left by some 40%. If thats true then that leaves Russia and Iran. This could easily be avoided by drilling the oil in alaska. Dont know why we're not doing it. I have my thoughts though.

I was referring to canada

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I was referring to canada

supply and demand says at $5 a gallon, demand goes down and inventories rise, dropping prices

don't forget the US gets most of it's oil domestically or from allies

My bad, i just couldnt see where you were referring to canada. The U.S. doesnt get most of its oil domestically. The majority is from the middle east. They've held off drilling in places like montana, colorado and alaska for whatever reason. They may get oil from canada, andI dont know how much of their oil comes from canada, but I do know for a fact that its not the majority of their oil consumption.

Thats why I didnt think that you were referring to Canada when you said "or allies".

Explain the canada thing to me. How much oil are we getting from them?

Edited by villain_the_foe
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My bad, i just couldnt see where you were referring to canada. The U.S. doesnt get most of its oil domestically. The majority is from the middle east. They've held off drilling in places like montana, colorado and alaska for whatever reason. They may get oil from canada, andI dont know how much of their oil comes from canada, but I do know for a fact that its not the majority of their oil consumption.

Thats why I didnt think that you were referring to Canada when you said "or allies".

Explain the canada thing to me. How much oil are we getting from them?

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports

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Thanks for posting that. I didnt know that we got so much oil from Canada. We still get the majority of our oil from the middle east though as your link shows.

Canada- Total: 1,975

Saudi Arabia- 1,141

Algeria- 572

Iraq- 340

Kuwait- 170

Total from the middle east: 2,223

And thats just the top 15 countries...If we had all of the countries im sure that the middle east would pop up a few more times.

The U.S. Gets approx. 50% of its oil from that region.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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Thanks for posting that. I didnt know that we got so much oil from Canada. We still get the majority of our oil from the middle east though as your link shows.

Canada- Total: 1,975

Saudi Arabia- 1,141

Algeria- 572

Iraq- 340

Kuwait- 170

Total from the middle east: 2,223

And thats just the top 15 countries...If we had all of the countries im sure that the middle east would pop up a few more times.

The U.S. Gets approx. 50% of its oil from that region.

Maybe you should re-check your math. Mexico is #2. The top 5 countries account for 70% and Saudi Arabia is the only Middle Eastern Country there. The top 10 account for 89% and Saudi Arabia is still the only Middle Eastern Country, though you included Algeria. Algeria is technically in North Africa, but many refer to it as one region Middle East-North Africa (MENA). You listed the only countries from the MENA region. For our purposes, North Africa is where the actual problem is already taking root.

I'm not sure why you chose to use the Nov 2010 figures. They are most recent, but month to month should fluctuate more than the YTD 2009 numbers. Using the 2009 figure I got 2150 for MENA countries while Mexico and Canada alone account for 3,669. Obviously considerably less than 1/2 comes from the Middle East. It's not even close and probably less than 1/3. 2,000+ come from South America and I might be more worried about that.

Also note, this is just for imports. There should be some domestic production unaccounted for in this chart.

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Maybe you should re-check your math. Mexico is #2. The top 5 countries account for 70% and Saudi Arabia is the only Middle Eastern Country there. The top 10 account for 89% and Saudi Arabia is still the only Middle Eastern Country, though you included Algeria. Algeria is technically in North Africa, but many refer to it as one region Middle East-North Africa (MENA). You listed the only countries from the MENA region. For our purposes, North Africa is where the actual problem is already taking root.

I'm not sure why you chose to use the Nov 2010 figures. They are most recent, but month to month should fluctuate more than the YTD 2009 numbers. Using the 2009 figure I got 2150 for MENA countries while Mexico and Canada alone account for 3,669. Obviously considerably less than 1/2 comes from the Middle East. It's not even close and probably less than 1/3. 2,000+ come from South America and I might be more worried about that.

Also note, this is just for imports. There should be some domestic production unaccounted for in this chart.

actually, I used part of the crude, and part of the petro to be ultra conservative. I feel like you're attempting to make this into a right or wrong situation. Should we PM one another?

I only used what you provided. The bottomline is that Iraq, algeria, Saudi, and Kuwait are part of the greater middle eastern area whether you like my math or not.

The middle east isnt made up of just Saudi, its part of the greater middle east. Also, that was only the top 15. It doesnt even touch the other places in that region that the US gets its oil from.

I feel like you're trying to prove something here. I didnt even take a shot at you today. :-) Good morning!

Edited by villain_the_foe
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I'm not sure why you chose to use the Nov 2010 figures. They are most recent, but month to month should fluctuate more than the YTD 2009 numbers.

I used the latest numbers because I didnt want to use older numbers. I think the more recent numbers would be more relevant to my point. Using 2009 numbers would only show what it used to be, not what it was just 2 months ago.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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actually, I used part of the crude, and part of the petro to be ultra conservative. I feel like you're attempting to make this into a right or wrong situation. Should we PM one another?

I only used what you provided. The bottomline is that Iraq, algeria, Saudi, and Kuwait are part of the greater middle eastern area whether you like my math or not.

The middle east isnt made up of just Saudi, its part of the greater middle east. Also, that was only the top 15. It doesnt even touch the other places in that region that the US gets its oil from.

I feel like you're trying to prove something here. I didnt even take a shot at you today. :-) Good morning!

I don't even know what your point is, so I don't know why you think I'm trying to say you are wrong there. I am only trying to prove that your statement that the Middle East provides 50% of our oil is factually incorrect. It is. It doesn't matter how you slice those numbers, it doesn't equal 1/2. If you want to say that it's a considerable number fine. If you want to say that we don't get the majority from allies, I won't argue, but you'll probably have to define ally for somebody. Canada, and Mexico alone provide close to 50% more than the entire region.

Pick any one of the columns you like. Add up the numbers divided by region. You will see that the Middle East + North Africa doesn't approach 50%. That statement was wrong. That is all I am correcting. If you don't make factualy incorrect statements I won't have a problem. If you still think the number is 50% or greater at least provide different numbers because by these you are way off. Hell, you can add the rest of Africa in there and it still won't be 50%. Those top 15 represent more than 89% according to the text.

You and I have different ways of viewing the world. That's fine. I'm not telling you how to think. I'm just saying you can't tell me 1+1=3 and expect me to agree, or even sit here and read it quietly.

Good morning to you. I had lunch two hours ago!

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I don't even know what your point is, so I don't know why you think I'm trying to say you are wrong there. I am only trying to prove that your statement that the Middle East provides 50% of our oil is factually incorrect. It is. It doesn't matter how you slice those numbers, it doesn't equal 1/2. If you want to say that it's a considerable number fine. If you want to say that we don't get the majority from allies, I won't argue, but you'll probably have to define ally for somebody. Canada, and Mexico alone provide close to 50% more than the entire region.

Pick any one of the columns you like. Add up the numbers divided by region. You will see that the Middle East + North Africa doesn't approach 50%. That statement was wrong. That is all I am correcting. If you don't make factualy incorrect statements I won't have a problem. If you still think the number is 50% or greater at least provide different numbers because by these you are way off. Hell, you can add the rest of Africa in there and it still won't be 50%. Those top 15 represent more than 89% according to the text.

You and I have different ways of viewing the world. That's fine. I'm not telling you how to think. I'm just saying you can't tell me 1+1=3 and expect me to agree, or even sit here and read it quietly.

Good morning to you. I had lunch two hours ago!

I said approx, which I guess I could be incorrect. Though I said that 50% only after the fact...so there was nothing to correct from the start if that was truely the case. Also, Im only wrong based on the top 15....and not every country in total....you see. Also, Larz (the person that I was actually speaking to) stated Canada, and I stated myself that I didnt know how much oil canada provided. The only fact that I was providing (though you got stuck on my approx that I stated 15 mins ago...lol) was that the Middle east provided more oil than Canada. there's more to this obviously

Look, I know what this is. My personality rubs people the wrong way at times. living for 30 years I know this about myself.

Let me put it to bed....you're right.

:-)

Edited by villain_the_foe
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I said approx, which I guess I could be incorrect. Though I said that 50% only after the fact...so there was nothing to correct from the start if that was truely the case. Also, Im only wrong based on the top 15....and not every country in total....you see.

Look, I know what this is. My personality rubs people the wrong way at times. living for 30 years I know this about myself.

Let me put it to bed....you're right.

:-)

Your personality doesn't rub me the wrong way. You can be a little smug, but so can I. The reason why I fight with you on some of these minor issues is because you expect people to respect your opinion and have a serious conversation, but if you make patently incorrect statements regarding numbers how can we rely on your analysis of anything?

It's okay to admit you made a mistake or misspoke. I've done it plenty of times. Better to admit it and correct yourself and move on. The figure we are discussing doesn't completely defeat your point anyway.

As for the numbers, as I said, those 15 countries represent 89%. If you add the remaining 10% straight to the Middle East I still don't think you have 50%. I don't have any agenda here - bullsh*t or otherwise. There may be other figures. I pulled these up in 20 seconds, but they certainly support Lars point about Canada. They also don't take into account any domestic crude. I never looked at these numbers or anything like them, but what struck me was how much came from South America.

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