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vinnys025
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Your personality doesn't rub me the wrong way. You can be a little smug, but so can I. The reason why I fight with you on some of these minor issues is because you expect people to respect your opinion and have a serious conversation, but if you make patently incorrect statements regarding numbers how can we rely on your analysis of anything?

It's okay to admit you made a mistake or misspoke. I've done it plenty of times. Better to admit it and correct yourself and move on. The figure we are discussing doesn't completely defeat your point anyway.

As for the numbers, as I said, those 15 countries represent 89%. If you add the remaining 10% straight to the Middle East I still don't think you have 50%. I don't have any agenda here - bullsh*t or otherwise. There may be other figures. I pulled these up in 20 seconds, but they certainly support Lars point about Canada. They also don't take into account any domestic crude. I never looked at these numbers or anything like them, but what struck me was how much came from South America.

I mispoke 15 mins ago with a general approximation that was not accurate. It wasnt like that was the whole basis throughout this convo. Canada doesnt provide more oil than the middle east. When it comes between the two regions that is a fact like I stated back when I was holding this convo with Larz. I also stated that I didnt know how much oil canada provided but I knew for a fact that they didnt provide more than the middle east. So when I made my approximation, it was still on the lines of Canada, though all and all I was wrong once you add in mexico.

As for people taking my conversations seriously...does that matter? The bottomline is that this country is in trouble whether we use your math or mine. Neither one is good. Maybe Their agenda and how they handled this was bullsh*t. But like I said, you were right. Admitting mis-speaking isnt a problem for me. Of course I expect people to take my conversation seriously, it has nothing to do with my analysis because its not like im wrong all the time, though on here it'll seem like I am, and I have yet to see someone come forth and say that they were wrong about "minor" stuff. Who isnt wrong about minor stuff at times? So to make it seem like people cant take my convo seriously because I may be wrong about minor stuff (like all of us) at times is just ridiculous.

But, like I said, you were right about Canada and Mexico. I was right about canada not providing more than the middle east. Im content with being half right. No one's perfect.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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I mispoke 15 mins ago with a general approximation that was not accurate. It wasnt like that was the whole basis throughout this convo. Canada doesnt provide more oil than the middle east. When it comes between the two regions that is a fact like I stated back when I was holding this convo with Larz. I also stated that I didnt know how much oil canada provided but I knew for a fact that they didnt provide more than the middle east. So when I made my approximation, it was still on the lines of Canada, though all and all I was wrong once you add in mexico.

As for people taking my conversations seriously...does that matter? The bottomline is that this country is in trouble whether we use your math or mine. Neither one is good. Maybe Their agenda and how they handled this was bullsh*t. But like I said, you were right. Admitting mis-speaking isnt a problem for me. Of course I expect people to take my conversation seriously, it has nothing to do with my analysis because its not like im wrong all the time, though on here it'll seem like I am, and I have yet to see someone come forth and say that they were wrong about "minor" stuff.

But, like I said, you were right about Canada and Mexico. I was right about canada not providing more than the middle east. Im content with being half right. No one's perfect.

I don't think Lars said Canada. Didn't he say our allies and then say he meant Canada?

As for why it's important, why even discuss these things if you aren't even going to try to be correct? You often talk about these major mistakes our society is allegely making, but why should anybody listen if you aren't willing to back up your statements?

I admit I'm wrong about minor stuff fairly often. I'll make a mistake on a contract issue or a team's run D. Just last week during a debate I feel very strongly about (the impending lockout) I stated that the cap was based on profits. It was obviously wrong and some Pats fan called me on it. PatsReign or Kansas Hell. I admitted it and moved on. It's the only way to keep any credibility whatsoever.

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I don't think Lars said Canada. Didn't he say our allies and then say he meant Canada?

Exactly, he said allies. I didnt even refer to canada because I didnt even know their major position. What I knew though was that the middle east was a major player. When I mentioned the middle east (because we do have allies over there) it wasnt in a situation of comparing them to anyone or any country. I just referred to the middle east given the amount of oil we get from them as well as the amount bonds that they buy from us (which was my original point). When Larz stated canada specifically I stated that I had no idea what canada provided, but without even looking I knew that the middle east provided more given what I knew on the middle east. Thats when you dropped in and decided to prove a point, a point that was irrelevant because my comment was based on why we buy middle eastern oil and why they buy our bonds. So I dont understand where I was so incorrect at, better yet, I dont know why it was so serious for you. Better yet, I dont know why it was so imortant to make a minor inaccuracy during our convo seem like I dont even "try to be correct" when It wasnt even about that in the first place. I wasnt even talking to you originally

As for why it's important, why even discuss these things if you aren't even going to try to be correct? You often talk about these major mistakes our society is allegely making, but why should anybody listen if you aren't willing to back up your statements?

As for my points of view on major mistakes in society and my lack of backing it up. Its because the majority of the stuff that I talk about is the stuff that's pushed under the rug....so there's really no "hard evidence" if you will to back up my statement because of the suprression of the info, however the proof is in the pudding when using your own intuition. However, when I do provide info. From accredited people I get the "crack pot" excuse. Why would I try when the info isnt taken seriously like you said yourself? This isnt about me being wrong, its about peoples disposition of what im presenting. big difference.

Also, I think you're jumping out the window on this me not even "trying to be correct" comment, especially when it was an inaccuracy on my part that I didnt even try to argue and owned up to immediately. It was wrong...a mistake at that. The problem is, im strong about may stand on things and instead of being able to "prove me wrong" people generally simply disagree with me and feel that im wrong simply because they dont see it the way I see it. This is just a way to make it seem like Im "not even trying to be correct" when in fact its that no one was able to present anything to dismiss my point of view.

Vaccines for example, one can go to the board of health for info...and they'll say that its safe. However, I'll present a multiple of doctors who state that it isnt safe and all of a sudden he's/she's a crackpot. I dont expect to be "correct" in a space like that. How could I be right in a space like that? You cant. Thats why I say that it doesnt matter if people thing that im not "trying to be correct" especially when their excuse is as what I stated. Or another one was "look at the advertisements on the website. How can I take this seriously". When I hear sh*t like that then I know right then and there that its not about the info. So you CANT be taken seriously when people act like that. It has nothing to do with me not trying to be correct. Its more like people being so damn dismissive which is "wrong". Yet I dont see people owning up to that.

Like I said, this isnt about me being right all the time because that would be ridiculous. But you're making it seem just as ridiculous by alleging that I dont even try to be correct.

How am I to respect your point if thats your stance?

Lets end it. I was wrong about my approximation. Im glad I didnt say that it was a "hard" number. I probably would have lost my jetnation membership.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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I give up.

I didn't drop by trying to prove a point. I wondered what the figures were and looked them up. I posted them for you and anybody else that might be interested.

I wouldn't have even replied if you didn't claim the 50% number.

I never said you don't try to be correct. I said it's important that you do, because if you don't there is no reason to have a conversation. I can sit here and say that up is down, but how could that lead to a rational discussion?

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I give up.

I didn't drop by trying to prove a point. I wondered what the figures were and looked them up. I posted them for you and anybody else that might be interested.

I wouldn't have even replied if you didn't claim the 50% number.

I never said you don't try to be correct. I said it's important that you do, because if you don't there is no reason to have a conversation. I can sit here and say that up is down, but how could that lead to a rational discussion?

Its self evident that you try to be correct. To make it seem like my minor inaccuracy was equivilent to saying that up is really down is lame. Also, PLEASE show me where I stated the 50% number before my convo with you.

Because as I stated that 50% number DURING our convo. thats not something you seen and decided to jump in on the convo and comment on.

Below is the comment that you responded to. Where did I say 50% anywhere in there???

My bad, i just couldnt see where you were referring to canada. The U.S. doesnt get most of its oil domestically. The majority is from the middle east. They've held off drilling in places like montana, colorado and alaska for whatever reason. They may get oil from canada, andI dont know how much of their oil comes from canada, but I do know for a fact that its not the majority of their oil consumption.

Thats why I didnt think that you were referring to Canada when you said "or allies".

Explain the canada thing to me. How much oil are we getting from them?

I wasnt even on that topic. You presented what you had and thats when I stated that the middle east sells approx 50%....THEN I said I was wrong on the number.

Like I said, I know your reason. I was wrong. I'll say it again.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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Its self evident that you try to be correct. To make it seem like my minor inaccuracy was equivilent to saying that up is really down is lame. Also, PLEASE show me where I stated the 50% number before my convo with you.

Because as I stated that 50% number DURING our convo. thats not something you seen and decided to jump in on the convo and comment on.

You should go back and re-read the thread. You stated 50% when you read the numbers I posted. That is when I replied. I never said it was equivalent to saying up is down, I said it's senseless to discuss things if we can't at least get the facts right. There are enough things open to analysis and interpretation that we should not be quibbling over numbers. Yet you continue to do so.

Below is the comment that you responded to. Where did I say 50% anywhere in there???

Like I said, go back and re-read the thread. The only thing I posted in response to that was this:

A link with hard numbers. I didn't even supply any commentary.

You replied with this:

Thanks for posting that. I didnt know that we got so much oil from Canada. We still get the majority of our oil from the middle east though as your link shows.

Canada- Total: 1,975

Saudi Arabia- 1,141

Algeria- 572

Iraq- 340

Kuwait- 170

Total from the middle east: 2,223

And thats just the top 15 countries...If we had all of the countries im sure that the middle east would pop up a few more times.

The U.S. Gets approx. 50% of its oil from that region.

At which point I corrected you and we got into this bullsh*t because you can’t just say okay and move on. I don’t have any stake in this discussion other than the truth, but God help me if we can ever get to that. You said we get the majority of our oil from the Middle East. The link shows that even if every drop of oil from a country not listed on that list was from the Middle East they still would only be at 30% and once again, that doesn't take into account domestic supply. By the way, you're welcome for the link.

Stop it.

Maybe you should. I’m not out to get you. You’re doing a good enough job on your own.

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You should go back and re-read the thread. You stated 50% when you read the numbers I posted. That is when I replied. I never said it was equivalent to saying up is down, I said it's senseless to discuss things if we can't at least get the facts right. There are enough things open to analysis and interpretation that we should not be quibbling over numbers. Yet you continue to do so.

Like I said, go back and re-read the thread. The only thing I posted in response to that was this:

A link with hard numbers. I didn't even supply any commentary.

You replied with this:

At which point I corrected you and we got into this bullsh*t because you can’t just say okay and move on. I don’t have any stake in this discussion other than the truth, but God help me if we can ever get to that. You said we get the majority of our oil from the Middle East. The link shows that even if every drop of oil from a country not listed on that list was from the Middle East they still would only be at 30% and once again, that doesn't take into account domestic supply. By the way, you're welcome for the link.

Maybe you should. I’m not out to get you. You’re doing a good enough job on your own.

You were right, that percentage was wrong. My problem wasnt your correction, my problem was you carrying that correction to other aspects and prior conversations...trying to associate my mistake with prior conversatons..alluding that I am wrong often. It was lame and cheap, as I said.

It would make no sense to argue about a wrong percentage after I acknowledged it. You however, decided to associate it outside of context which I didnt agree with.

And from what I recalled, I thanked you for the link and then went on to show you that the middle east provided more oil than canada. You my friend wanted to fight with me like you said earlier. However, I think I like it because I cant stop responding to it for some reason lol.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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You were right, that percentage was wrong. My problem wasnt your correction, my problem was you carrying that correction to other aspects and prior conversations...trying to associate my mistake with prior conversatons giving the point that I am wrong often. It was lame, as I said.

It would make no sense to argue about a wrong percentage after I acknowledged it. You however, decided to associate it outside of context which I didnt agree with.

And from what I recalled, I thanked you for the link and then went on to show you that the middle east provided more oil than canada. You my friend wanted to fight with me like you said earlier. However, I think I like it because I cant stop responding to it for some reason lol.

There is no reason to recall anything. It's all up there to read. I'm sorry that you feel I carried that to other conversations. That was never my intent. I don't see where I brought any other "context" into it other than where you basically stated "what's the difference?" I think there is a difference.

I never wanted to fight with you. For some reason you have a problem with me or the truth. FWIW, I will admit that we import more oil from the entirety of the Middle East and North Africa than Canada. The relevance of that is a mystery to me, but I concede that.

Edited by #27TheDominator
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There is no reason to recall anything. It's all up there to read. I'm sorry that you feel I carried that to other conversations. That was never my intent. I don't see where I brought any other "context" into it other than where you basically stated "what's the difference?" I think there is a difference.

I never wanted to fight with you. For some reason you have a problem with me or the truth. FWIW, I will admit that we import more oil from the entirety of the Middle East and North Africa than Canada. The relevance of that is a mystery to me, but I concede that.

Then you should re-read what you said. This is why it seemed like it was your intent.

As for why it's important, why even discuss these things if you aren't even going to try to be correct? You often talk about these major mistakes our society is allegely making, but why should anybody listen if you aren't willing to back up your statements?

Mistakes happen...even patently (you've done it before). But I didnt try to defend it. Though I understood the mistake, my point was outside of that...which I was correct on. It looked like you posted the link to show that Canada provided more oil because they were #1 on the list, I was just reconfirming that they didnt when it came to the middle east.

I have no problem with the truth. Its not like I denied that I made a mistake right? I have a problem on how the truth can be presented though. But whatever, I accept your apology. No need to be mystified, the greater middle eastern region provides more oil than canada. It had no relevance to you because I was talking to Larz.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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Interesting that Canada and Mexico are 1-2 for oil exports to the US.

Here in Vancouver the cost is about US$5 a gallon (currency and volume differences taken into consideration)

Very close to us and just across the border in Blaine, WA it sells for around $3.50, quite possibly made from oil exported from Canada.

Good old Canadian taxes at work.

The result?

A lot of people crossing the border to buy gas, then returning minutes later, provided the lineups aren't too long.

One of the guys I work with is from Iowa. When asked why he moved to Canada, he replied "I didn't feel I was paying enough taxes in the US"

Welcome, eh.

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Although, a lot of people don't know that gas prices listed are for 9/10 of a gallon, the 9/10 does NOT mean 9/10 of a cent. So if it says it's $2.70, for example, it's really $3.00, because the $2.70 is only for 9/10 of a gallon. Hopefully that helps some people who never knew that B)

:blink:

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Although, a lot of people don't know that gas prices listed are for 9/10 of a gallon, the 9/10 does NOT mean 9/10 of a cent. So if it says it's $2.70, for example, it's really $3.00, because the $2.70 is only for 9/10 of a gallon. Hopefully that helps some people who never knew that B)

That is patently false.

No it's not.

Yeah. It really is.

Show me one little iota of proof, please.

I'm still waiting for this proof. I've seen some silly things said here, but this one was a doozy. :blink:

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You know where this is headed? lol. I dont understand, I was conversing with CTM and you asked a question. You're making it seem like im baiting you to into a debate or something. I didnt even say anything to you. lmao.

However, for the sake of entertainment and for the fact that im bored at work I'll post this link http://edoerksen.blogspot.com/2011/01/co2-does-not-cause-climate-change-never.html

and then let you know that I was actually avoiding a debate by not criticizing or stating that I dont believe in the global warming theories and just kept it on the price of gas. I guess you sensed that I dont agree with Al Gore and decided to make it seem like I was trying to "head" this convo into a particular direction. I think thats you sir...but I dont mind. I like these type of conversations anyway and you're cool to speak to. :Loveheart:

Haha, no, I figured you would ask me for proof that carbon footprints are real etc...

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Interesting that Canada and Mexico are 1-2 for oil exports to the US.

Here in Vancouver the cost is about US$5 a gallon (currency and volume differences taken into consideration)

Very close to us and just across the border in Blaine, WA it sells for around $3.50, quite possibly made from oil exported from Canada.

Good old Canadian taxes at work.

The result?

A lot of people crossing the border to buy gas, then returning minutes later, provided the lineups aren't too long.

One of the guys I work with is from Iowa. When asked why he moved to Canada, he replied "I didn't feel I was paying enough taxes in the US"

Welcome, eh.

FWIW, gas went up. My buddy just filled up his Ford. $8.50/gallon. Ouch.

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That's not the Vatican dumbass! Though St. Peter's is one of only two larger churches. I live about a 5 minute walk from there. Here, educate yourself:

Innocents Abroad - Mark Twain in Milano

Ahh, 2 things I always do in Milan, grab a Luini panzerroti or 3, and eat at Don Lisander. Both places with 5 minutes or less of the Duomo and both places I stumbled upon randomly.

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5 pages and it's been rather civil. I'm proud of us..lol.

It has been civil. And I want to add that I don't think it will hit $5 per gallon. Not in NY\NJ.

People here get pretty damn pissed when it hits that $4 range. And last time it happened demand went WAY down. I realize there are bigger issues here but in a supply and demand world, demand speaks volumes. At over $4 a gallon I think we would see many more people working from home and doing webex meetings on the corporate side of the world.

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My bad, i just couldnt see where you were referring to canada. The U.S. doesnt get most of its oil domestically. The majority is from the middle east. They've held off drilling in places like montana, colorado and alaska for whatever reason. They may get oil from canada, andI dont know how much of their oil comes from canada, but I do know for a fact that its not the majority of their oil consumption.

Thats why I didnt think that you were referring to Canada when you said "or allies".

Explain the canada thing to me. How much oil are we getting from them?

I was wrong about the us getting most of it's oil domestically, I thought I remebered reading that somewhere. oh well. the point I was trying to make is its just bat sh*t crazy that the prices fluctuate so rapidly due to a minor supplier having political problems. whoever takes ove libya has only one way to make money, sell the oil. the part of the sytem I hate the most is the futures peculation aspect of it. those guys are like high school girls, a little drama and they lose thier minds

I found this

The U.S. gets its oil from two sources: either it pumps its own oil, called "Field Production" by the Department of Energy, or it imports oil from other countries around the world. In 2000, American commercial field production made up 38.69% of the total supply of crude oil, while imports made up 60.28%. In 2005, when I wrote the last post, those same percentages were 33.67% and 65.84%, respectively. (These numbers are different from what I wrote back in 2006 as adjustments have been made to the official statistics; these types of revisions are normal for economic statistics.) In 2007 (the most recent year), the percentages were 33.72% and 66.19%, respectively. While there has been an extremely slight increase in the amount of oil pumped domestically (0.05%), imports have also increased as well. (The reason why both numbers can increase is because a third number, "supply adjustments," fell.)

In 2007, the U.S. imported a total of 3,656,170 thousand barrels. Of those 3.66 billion barrles, the U.S. imported from a total of 46 different countries. The top 5 importing countries were: Canada (18.61%), Saudi Arabia (14.50%), Mexico (14.07%), Venezuela (11.48%), and Nigeria (10.80%), for a total of 69.47% of all American imports. In contrast, imports from countries six through ten (Angola, Iraq, Algeria, Ecuador, and Kuwait) made up only 17.95% of the total; countries 11 through 46 made up the remaining 12.58%.

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I was wrong about the us getting most of it's oil domestically, I thought I remebered reading that somewhere. oh well. the point I was trying to make is its just bat sh*t crazy that the prices fluctuate so rapidly due to a minor supplier having political problems. whoever takes ove libya has only one way to make money, sell the oil. the part of the sytem I hate the most is the futures peculation aspect of it. those guys are like high school girls, a little drama and they lose thier minds

I found this

The U.S. gets its oil from two sources: either it pumps its own oil, called "Field Production" by the Department of Energy, or it imports oil from other countries around the world. In 2000, American commercial field production made up 38.69% of the total supply of crude oil, while imports made up 60.28%. In 2005, when I wrote the last post, those same percentages were 33.67% and 65.84%, respectively. (These numbers are different from what I wrote back in 2006 as adjustments have been made to the official statistics; these types of revisions are normal for economic statistics.) In 2007 (the most recent year), the percentages were 33.72% and 66.19%, respectively. While there has been an extremely slight increase in the amount of oil pumped domestically (0.05%), imports have also increased as well. (The reason why both numbers can increase is because a third number, "supply adjustments," fell.)

In 2007, the U.S. imported a total of 3,656,170 thousand barrels. Of those 3.66 billion barrles, the U.S. imported from a total of 46 different countries. The top 5 importing countries were: Canada (18.61%), Saudi Arabia (14.50%), Mexico (14.07%), Venezuela (11.48%), and Nigeria (10.80%), for a total of 69.47% of all American imports. In contrast, imports from countries six through ten (Angola, Iraq, Algeria, Ecuador, and Kuwait) made up only 17.95% of the total; countries 11 through 46 made up the remaining 12.58%.

Thanks for the info. And I wasnt trying to put you out there to let you know. I was wrong earlier about the U.S. getting approx 50% of its oil from the middle east. Overall though, the last time we seen oil shoot up like this it ended in a financial crisis of 2006-2008. And that was before QE1/QE2 and the collapse of the housing/job market. I guess you can only hope for the best yet prepare for the worst because the entire world is feeling the squeeze right now.

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I was wrong about the us getting most of it's oil domestically, I thought I remebered reading that somewhere. oh well. the point I was trying to make is its just bat sh*t crazy that the prices fluctuate so rapidly due to a minor supplier having political problems. whoever takes ove libya has only one way to make money, sell the oil. the part of the sytem I hate the most is the futures peculation aspect of it. those guys are like high school girls, a little drama and they lose thier minds

I found this

The U.S. gets its oil from two sources: either it pumps its own oil, called "Field Production" by the Department of Energy, or it imports oil from other countries around the world. In 2000, American commercial field production made up 38.69% of the total supply of crude oil, while imports made up 60.28%. In 2005, when I wrote the last post, those same percentages were 33.67% and 65.84%, respectively. (These numbers are different from what I wrote back in 2006 as adjustments have been made to the official statistics; these types of revisions are normal for economic statistics.) In 2007 (the most recent year), the percentages were 33.72% and 66.19%, respectively. While there has been an extremely slight increase in the amount of oil pumped domestically (0.05%), imports have also increased as well. (The reason why both numbers can increase is because a third number, "supply adjustments," fell.)

In 2007, the U.S. imported a total of 3,656,170 thousand barrels. Of those 3.66 billion barrles, the U.S. imported from a total of 46 different countries. The top 5 importing countries were: Canada (18.61%), Saudi Arabia (14.50%), Mexico (14.07%), Venezuela (11.48%), and Nigeria (10.80%), for a total of 69.47% of all American imports. In contrast, imports from countries six through ten (Angola, Iraq, Algeria, Ecuador, and Kuwait) made up only 17.95% of the total; countries 11 through 46 made up the remaining 12.58%.

Thanks for the info. And I wasnt trying to put you out there to let you know. I was wrong earlier about the U.S. getting approx 50% of its oil from the middle east. Overall though, the last time we seen oil shoot up like this it ended in a financial crisis of 2006-2008. And that was before QE1/QE2 and the collapse of the housing/job market. I guess you can only hope for the best yet prepare for the worst because the entire world is feeling the squeeze right now.

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It has been civil. And I want to add that I don't think it will hit $5 per gallon. Not in NY\NJ.

People here get pretty damn pissed when it hits that $4 range. And last time it happened demand went WAY down. I realize there are bigger issues here but in a supply and demand world, demand speaks volumes. At over $4 a gallon I think we would see many more people working from home and doing webex meetings on the corporate side of the world.

I would have agreed with gas not hitting $5 a few years back, but this seems different this time around. Gas has been cheap for us because oil was denominated in dollars and all we had to do was print it up, the rest of the world always had to buy our dollars first, then buy oil which in my belief was why the rest of the other major countries paid more money.

Thats not the case this go'round. Foreign oil suppliers are accepting euros, RMB, gold etc. And if im correct, Iran accepts currencies execpt the dollar. thats means that there's less faith and stability in our petrodollar. If we dont see $5.00 a gallon the the tri-state I'd be surprised, because im already anticipating higher than $5 in the years to come. there's simply too much money floating around out there and now other countries more and more can start using other methods of payment to buy their oil instead of buying dollars. Thats sounds like a problem lurking in the shadows.

Edited by villain_the_foe
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Ahh, 2 things I always do in Milan, grab a Luini panzerroti or 3, and eat at Don Lisander. Both places with 5 minutes or less of the Duomo and both places I stumbled upon randomly.

You "stumbled upon" Luini's? You mean you were walking around and saw one hundred people waiting on line and figured you'd see what the fuss is about, right? I have the t-shirt. I never ate at Don Lisander. There are too many other good places and most places over there seemed overpriced. Milan isn't the best for food anyway. In Palermo there are panzerotti as good as Luini on every corner. Doens't mean they aren't awesome though.

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Although, a lot of people don't know that gas prices listed are for 9/10 of a gallon, the 9/10 does NOT mean 9/10 of a cent. So if it says it's $2.70, for example, it's really $3.00, because the $2.70 is only for 9/10 of a gallon. Hopefully that helps some people who never knew that B)

This is a life changing revelation for me. Thank you.

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