Gas Prices.......weeeeeeeeeeee

[Maxman]

The posts are so long I don't want to quote and edit the parts I am not referring to. But for JetMo....about the 50% taxes...I haven't added that up but do you think there is a large percentage of the population that pays 50%?

If someone is paying 12 grand in property taxes I would imagine that they have a nice income to offset that. I pay right around $5,000 a year in property taxes. I don't have a huge house but live in a nice, safe town. Have a 4 bedroom house with a basement. If I could afford a much bigger house that would be great. But if I did buy one on my income and that pushed my tax rate higher, I would have to say that would be on me.

Not exactly newsworthy at this point but people buy more than they can afford (myself included). Not sure how that falls on anyone else.

I am not saying there isn't corruption and that taxes aren't out of control (they are). That 50% # just seemed high to me, that's all.

[Dude Love]

The posts are so long I don't want to quote and edit the parts I am not referring to. But for JetMo....about the 50% taxes...I haven't added that up but do you think there is a large percentage of the population that pays 50%?

I would say quite a few. And if they are not, then they aren't really making enough money to get ahead in NJ, they are most likely living paycheck to paycheck (or credit card to credit card).

One example:

Family of 4, annual income of $120,000; mortgage a $300,000 dollar home

In Hudson County; annual property tax roughly $10,000

Payroll taxes:

SSI $7440

SUI/SSD $1110

Medicare $1740

FLI $104

NJ State Tax: $4270

Federal tax: $19,693

Subtract the taxes from the gross, and you are left with $75,643 Net. Looks like a lot of money

But figure out sales tax and gas tax and all that other good stuff that comes out of net, not gross earning. A family of four in Hudson County probably has two vehicles—what’s the car insurance or car payments like? They fill the tanks up once a week, that’s just for local driving never mind a trip down the shore, so we’re looking at $80 bucks a week, which comes to $4160 a year.

What’s the mortgage like? The grocery bill? Clothes and shoes?

I mean I’ve been very conservative with my estimates here; If I wanted, I can paint a picture where a family of four is living hand to mouth on $120 K a year in Hudson county NJ.

Fact is most people are living off way less than that.

[Maxman]

I would say quite a few. And if they are not, then they aren't really making enough money to get ahead in NJ, they are most likely living paycheck to paycheck (or credit card to credit card).

One example:

Family of 4, annual income of $120,000; mortgage a $300,000 dollar home

In Hudson County; annual property tax roughly $10,000

Payroll taxes:

SSI $7440

SUI/SSD $1110

Medicare $1740

FLI $104

NJ State Tax: $4270

Federal tax: $19,693

Subtract the taxes from the gross, and you are left with $75,643 Net. Looks like a lot of money

But figure out sales tax and gas tax and all that other good stuff that comes out of net, not gross earning. A family of four in Hudson County probably has two vehicles—what’s the car insurance or car payments like? They fill the tanks up once a week, that’s just for local driving never mind a trip down the shore, so we’re looking at $80 bucks a week, which comes to $4160 a year.

What’s the mortgage like? The grocery bill? Clothes and shoes?

I mean I’ve been very conservative with my estimates here; If I wanted, I can paint a picture where a family of four is living hand to mouth on $120 K a year in Hudson county NJ.

Fact is most people are living off way less than that.

That scenario that you described hits really close to home for me. Except I didn't buy a house in Hudson County. I bought where taxes were lower, but that is another point I guess.

That being said the biggest thing you are leaving out is the tax deduction they get on the mortgage interest and real estate taxes. That brings down their tax burden and you are not figuring it in.

[Dude Love]

That scenario that you described hits really close to home for me. Except I didn't buy a house in Hudson County. I bought where taxes were lower, but that is another point I guess.

That being said the biggest thing you are leaving out is the tax deduction they get on the mortgage interest and real estate taxes. That brings down their tax burden and you are not figuring it in.

Max, I'm glad you brought that up---

If you run the numbers but change the income from $120 K/year to $100 K /year salary, you will find the taxes are not much different. I'm assuming a 30 year mortgage on a 300 K house would be about $2 K a month. So the 20 K write off is negligible.

I know that sounds low, but all my numbers are low so I'm not cooking the books. LOL

Also I never mentioned gas and electric. Sheeeeeit, my PSE&G for February was almost $500 bucks. That is assrape. LOL

And what if you have 3 kids? 4 kids? Lots of variables.

[Dude Love]

Hyper inflation is in the cards. This isnt a situation imo where its just enormous inflation. We have massive inflation now...in a country where I believe 70% of the FED's paper is out of the country given its a world currency. Weimar didnt have that issue. On top of the QE3 digital money, debt etc., we're going to have all that money out of the country flooding right back into the states like a paper tsunami.

It's scary when Weimar looks better.

I'll respond to this post peicemeal (too much good stuff).

[Maxman]

Max, I'm glad you brought that up---

If you run the numbers but change the income from $120 K/year to $100 K /year salary, you will find the taxes are not much different. I'm assuming a 30 year mortgage on a 300 K house would be about $2 K a month. So the 20 K write off is negligible.

I know that sounds low, but all my numbers are low so I'm not cooking the books. LOL

Also I never mentioned gas and electric. Sheeeeeit, my PSE&G for February was almost $500 bucks. That is assrape. LOL

And what if you have 3 kids? 4 kids? Lots of variables.

Gas and electric are a bit different than taxes in my book. The premise is yes, it is damn expensive to get by these days. I am not denying that. Trust me I feel like I make a good living. And when it is all said and done it is often done long before it is said.

I am agreeing on that part. Just not sure I believe anyone is trying to keep me where I am at, lol.

[Larz]

ok,so we bombed libya, when do the prices go down ?

LOL

system is rigged man

******* speculators have a panic attack and the prices spike, regardless of supply and demand

panic attack is over, prices never go down to the old levels

we need some smart dude to invent a vespa that you can ride in bad weather and look cool driving. smart cars and coopers don't count

[PatriotReign37]

Dude there is so much truth to what you say and for you to come out on the winning/wisdom end of all the crap you must have went through as a kid is awesome.

Prison is a microcosym of society as a whole. We are kept divided by race and class because it's so easy to control us that way. Even when people figure it out they can't come up with a solution because the paradigm always shifts.

It's maddening.

Ive been following this thread from afar and could no agree more.

Thanks for your insight - all of you.

[villain_the_foe]

It's scary when Weimar looks better.

I'll respond to this post peicemeal (too much good stuff).

It is isnt it?

Well, to Weimar's credit it only looks better by default given that its already come and gone. My ultimate point is that regarding our gross economic negligence (having seen Weimar) and the unwillingness to purge the system, I have to say that Weimar went under for far less. Thats my reasoning for saying that hyper inflation is in the cards. And with you and Max talking about housing...how many people are going to lose their home this year? Millions. These bankers should be in f'ing jail. Then again, they finance those too dont they? You couldnt make this sh*t up dude.

[villain_the_foe]

ok,so we bombed libya, when do the prices go down ?

LOL

system is rigged man

******* speculators have a panic attack and the prices spike, regardless of supply and demand

panic attack is over, prices never go down to the old levels

we need some smart dude to invent a vespa that you can ride in bad weather and look cool driving. smart cars and coopers don't count

Thats a good question though. And yes the system is rigged. Prices arent going to go down because "at best" this can only be managed from spiking to the upside too quickly. The game is over. I'm not out to sound like a pessimist, but its hard not to recognize the world fleeing from the dollar into hard assets, this military entering every illegal war possible, the IMF calling for a new world currency and 20% of Jetnation are either unemployed or underemployed.

Hopefully Max has an extra room lol

[villain_the_foe]

Ive been following this thread from afar and could no agree more.

Thanks for your insight - all of you.

Thats whats up!

And I thank the Mods for letting this convo run. Yeah it was borderline political at times (cant help it when talking about oil lol) but they let us run with it.

[#27TheDominator]

we need some smart dude to invent a vespa that you can ride in bad weather and look cool driving. smart cars and coopers don't count

BMW has been making these for years...

Oh wait. You said look cool driving? <Emily Litella voice> Never mind.

[Dude Love]

Gas and electric are a bit different than taxes in my book. The premise is yes, it is damn expensive to get by these days. I am not denying that. Trust me I feel like I make a good living. And when it is all said and done it is often done long before it is said.

I am agreeing on that part. Just not sure I believe anyone is trying to keep me where I am at, lol.

Getting back to my original point, after all these taxes:

Payroll taxes:

SSI $7440

SUI/SSD $1110

Medicare $1740

FLI $104

NJ State Tax: $4270

Federal tax: $19,693

Property tax: $10,000

NJ still can't balance it's budget, and the country still has to borrow trillions of dollars to pay for all this sh*t. And until that changes (and it won't) we have a date in the not so distant future with a very ugly destiny.

[Dude Love]

I have a very small shares position in PM Mining companies (as a hedge).

That's good, stay in it, because mining is the ONLY INDUSTRY THAT CAN'T BE OUTSOURCED. And this continent is one of the richest in terms of minerals, natural gas, and oil.

I have one undervalued company nicely priced shares with concentrated product in the ground, long term debt already paid off and production already in the process. I compared its anticipated numbers from their sample findings to other companies that are producing that amount...and I see that this company's stock should be atleast $30-$45 a pop...but its at $11. Its market cap just hit over 1 billion last week yet its shares was made available to the public this past December. Most importantly, the CEO of this company took his old company from a market cap of 200 million to almost 2 billion during his time there. Cant argue with that!

My more "speculative" play is one company that the shares are "penny stocks" however, they have multiple properties with positive samples of gold and silver, but are preparing to start drilling in the next 3 months. Their market cap is below their shares outstanding (which is why I feel its very speculative), however, their shares are trading nicely below their 52 week high with actual metal in the ground, and imo this could be very nice opportunity . With this play, I can rack up on .50 cent shares like no one's business. And if that share goes to $50, I made 100 times my money, however, if Silver went from $37 to $500 I only made 13times my money (which im more than content with)....thats the hedge. I also do not invest in any mining companies in the US. I have a feeling they're going to be nationalized. Everything I deal with is either in physical possession or in the case of shares, in other countries.

Wow. You really did your homework. And that's good because IT'S YOUR MONEY. There is nothing more disturbing in this world than people with a substantial portfolio who trust it's management to a financial advisor who's training in finance and economics consists primarily of memorizing cue cards and cold calling. LOL

[villain_the_foe]

That's good, stay in it, because mining is the ONLY INDUSTRY THAT CAN'T BE OUTSOURCED. And this continent is one of the richest in terms of minerals, natural gas, and oil.

You're right. I've been looking into mining in Canada and Argentina. Peru when it comes to Silver is a no-brainer but I havent quite gotten around to it yet. I havent invested in any mining companies in the U.S. given that we're just in TOOOOOO MUCH debt. I really dont know what the outcome is going to be in respects to gov't wanting to nationalize.

Wow. You really did your homework. And that's good because IT'S YOUR MONEY. There is nothing more disturbing in this world than people with a substantial portfolio who trust it's management to a financial advisor who's training in finance and economics consists primarily of memorizing cue cards and cold calling. LOL

You're spot on with the "financial advisor" crap. Many FA's will not even put their clients into physical metals...or they'll say that 10% of their portfolio in metals is the "safe" play. Little do the clients know that the more money you put into physical assets the less your FA can get hold of. Silver's been averaging an 80% return the past couple years. You show me a stock performing like Silver and I'll shut up lol. They're a waste of time and money.

Its beneficial to do your homework, however, I have no problem signing up for weekly articles Like Marc Faber's article, David Morgan's article or my favorite Bob Chapmans "International Forecaster". I was never the one to purchase stock or "invest" if you will. The bottomline however is that the days when everyone worked the same job for 30 years and then retired to a nice fat pension are gone.

I also follow guys like Peter Schiff (genius), Gerald Celente, Mike Maloney, Robert Kiyosaki etc. You can literally google their name and see what they've been talking about for years in respects to the economy, and they've been dead on.

With inflation, I've learned that your money is nothing but an economic extension of you. Most people think that to get more money you have to work more...which can work up to a point. But the way the "financially free" people do it is to have their money work for them. I can respect that.

[Dude Love]

It is isnt it?

Well, to Weimar's credit it only looks better by default given that its already come and gone. My ultimate point is that regarding our gross economic negligence (having seen Weimar) and the unwillingness to purge the system, I have to say that Weimar went under for far less. Thats my reasoning for saying that hyper inflation is in the cards. And with you and Max talking about housing...how many people are going to lose their home this year? Millions. These bankers should be in f'ing jail. Then again, they finance those too dont they? You couldnt make this sh*t up dude.

Cruel Irony:

Germany actually tried to bankrupt the US during WW2 by counterfeiting our currency. 60 years later the federal reserve and US Treasury successfully completes the mission. LOL

[Dude Love]

You're spot on with the "financial advisor" crap. Many FA's will not even put their clients into physical metals...or they'll say that 10% of their portfolio in metals is the "safe" play. Little do the clients know that the more money you put into physical assets the less your FA can get hold of. Silver's been averaging an 80% return the past couple years. You show me a stock performing like Silver and I'll shut up lol. They're a waste of time and money.

The stock market is rigged. Back in 1988, by executive order, President Reagan created the "Plunge Protection Team". A group that includes the heads of the Fed, the Treasury, the SEC, and Commodity Futures trading commission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plunge_Protection_Team

Current members: Ben Bernanke, Timmy Geithner, Mary Schapiro, and Gary Gensler.

They are unelected officials who intercede when the stock market appears for a plunge. So why did the stock market plunge 700 pts in Oct of 2009?

This is proof that the government manipulates the stock market. they blamed the "fat finger" LOL. What a lie that was.

Our government now controls and manufactures financial crisis as a means of coercing the public.

[Maxman]

Getting back to my original point, after all these taxes:

Payroll taxes:

SSI $7440

SUI/SSD $1110

Medicare $1740

FLI $104

NJ State Tax: $4270

Federal tax: $19,693

Property tax: $10,000

NJ still can't balance it's budget, and the country still has to borrow trillions of dollars to pay for all this sh*t. And until that changes (and it won't) we have a date in the not so distant future with a very ugly destiny.

There are deductions that bring that way down. The 44k you list for someone making 120k is a lot no doubt. But deductions bring the amount down, how much probably depends on interest (mortgage). So let's say that 120k person now paid 39k in taxes. That is still really high.

Just not 50%.

[Maxman]

I think Villian is going to eventually scam us. He will win us all over. Then we will sign our money to him. I have seen this before.

[Bugg]

There are deductions that bring that way down. The 44k you list for someone making 120k is a lot no doubt. But deductions bring the amount down, how much probably depends on interest (mortgage). So let's say that 120k person now paid 39k in taxes. That is still really high.

Just not 50%.

Alterantive Minimum Tax is killing many middle class people, such that you have those itemized deductions capped. The fix the government instituted abrely helped anyone. By the same token they amde what ever tax cuts Bush instituted illusory. And it was Charles Rangel, noted taxe cheat, who put it in back in the later 1960s because at that time maney very rich people were able to evade taxes based on bond interest and dividends.At that time it impacted less than 400 people. Now it impacts thousands. There is a reason April 15th (18th this year thanks to some bullsh*t DC holiday) is almost as far away on the calendar as Election Day as possible.

This is not polititcal; they are all thieves.

[villain_the_foe]

The stock market is rigged. Back in 1988, by executive order, President Reagan created the "Plunge Protection Team". A group that includes the heads of the Fed, the Treasury, the SEC, and Commodity Futures trading commission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plunge_Protection_Team

Current members: Ben Bernanke, Timmy Geithner, Mary Schapiro, and Gary Gensler.

They are unelected officials who intercede when the stock market appears for a plunge. So why did the stock market plunge 700 pts in Oct of 2009?

This is proof that the government manipulates the stock market. they blamed the "fat finger" LOL. What a lie that was.

Our government now controls and manufactures financial crisis as a means of coercing the public.

Yeah, I know of the plunge protection team. They prop up the market no matter what. Japan has an earthquake, Tsunami, Radioactivity....The DOW's up 60 points. Oh, a Meteor hit planet earth, the DOW's up 60 points....lol.

Talk about a house of cards from a stacked deck!

[villain_the_foe]

Cruel Irony:

Germany actually tried to bankrupt the US during WW2 by counterfeiting our currency. 60 years later the federal reserve and US Treasury successfully completes the mission. LOL

Well, once "QE8" finishes and they decide to stop printing....

[villain_the_foe]

The Dept. of Energy and Foreign oil. Why the Dept of energy was created.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG3uo6zq4cE

[CTM]

obviously the country is nearing end of it's run as a world super power, but it's not just the governments fault. It goes from the top to the very bottom. We're fat and weak and unwillingly to make the sacrifices we'd need to. Our workers are increasinglly non competitive in the global workforce cause they need to earn a high salary to pay for all thier consumption which they think is a divine right. When hiring develoeprs, under normal circumstances, I'm choosing between a guy who will work 40-45 hrs for 70-100k + benefits and time off, against a guy from the phillipines who speaks perfect english and is willing work 70-80 hrs a week for 35k. Most americans bellyache and need payback if you ask them to work a few extra hours to meet a deadline. My preference has been to find hard workers and pay them well, but they are few and far between. If this was my company I just wouldn't be able to hire americans, they want to much money for too little effort. I think this reality is going to hit more and more until the rest of the world catches up to us on the lazy, entitled gluttony scales.

[Larz]

BMW has been making these for years...

Oh wait. You said look cool driving? <Emily Litella voice> Never mind.

holy crap, that's awesome, that's more or less what I was talking about. I work 1.5 miles from home, it would be awesome to ride my bike, but anybody remember january ?

[#27TheDominator]

obviously the country is nearing end of it's run as a world super power, but it's not just the governments fault. It goes from the top to the very bottom. We're fat and weak and unwillingly to make the sacrifices we'd need to. Our workers are increasinglly non competitive in the global workforce cause they need to earn a high salary to pay for all thier consumption which they think is a divine right. When hiring develoeprs, under normal circumstances, I'm choosing between a guy who will work 40-45 hrs for 70-100k + benefits and time off, against a guy from the phillipines who speaks perfect english and is willing work 70-80 hrs a week for 35k. Most americans bellyache and need payback if you ask them to work a few extra hours to meet a deadline. My preference has been to find hard workers and pay them well, but they are few and far between. If this was my company I just wouldn't be able to hire americans, they want to much money for too little effort. I think this reality is going to hit more and more until the rest of the world catches up to us on the lazy, entitled gluttony scales.

All this is true, but it happened to Europe 100 years ago and things are fine over here. I think you are all overestimating the horrors of being a fat gluttonous country. It's not bad at all. Stagnant, but quite pleasant. Young and hungry is impressive, but not the nicest way to live.

[CTM]

All this is true, but it happened to Europe 100 years ago and things are fine over here. I think you are all overestimating the horrors of being a fat gluttonous country. It's not bad at all. Stagnant, but quite pleasant. Young and hungry is impressive, but not the nicest way to live.

The difference is now that we countries like India and China who want thier turn at the dinner table and are willing to work harder to get there. Technology makes shipping jobs over seaes easier every year.

[#27TheDominator]

The difference is now that we countries like India and China who want thier turn at the dinner table and are willing to work harder to get there. Technology makes shipping jobs over seaes easier every year.

Sure, but there are plenty of countries around here looking to take first world jobs away. It's been done before. It's not optimal, but I don't think it is the great catastrophe you guys are making it out to be. Sure China has taken over manufacturing. They are also buying tons of Buicks. Once they get some wealth and a middle class they will end up just like us. The biggest difference between the U.S. and Italy is that Italians don't have that Horatio Alger expectation that anyone can get rich through hard work. They just want to enjoy dinner and their wives, and their caffe and their girlfriends, and their cigarettes.

[NYJets90]

And yet we're in Brazil pushing them for more offshore drilling.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/the_only_way_out_for_the_ameri.html

[PatriotReign37]

The difference is now that we countries like India and China who want thier turn at the dinner table and are willing to work harder to get there. Technology makes shipping jobs over seaes easier every year.

My sister does corporate staffing in Boston. Web/software engineers and tech people.

She says, the people from Asia and India will relocate anywhere and work like dogs. They are getting the jobs.

[JetsFanInDenver]

My sister does corporate staffing in Boston. Web/software engineers and tech people.

She says, the people from Asia and India will relocate anywhere and work like dogs. They are getting the jobs.

I think there is are some differences between perception and reality.

I was born and educated in India. And i work in the IT field. So i should know.

People won't relocate anywhere. There are places they would avoid. But generally Indians love living near or in a big city. Thats why you would find huge Indian populations in around NYC, LA, Chicago and so on.

And Indians do not have to work like dogs. Most of them have the education, aptitude and experience to get a specific task done faster and more efficiently so they get more done in 8 hours than some of their colleagues. Although there are exceptions like me.

[PatriotReign37]

I think there is are some differences between perception and reality.

I was born and educated in India. And i work in the IT field. So i should know.

People won't relocate anywhere. There are places they would avoid. But generally Indians love living near or in a big city. Thats why you would find huge Indian populations in around NYC, LA, Chicago and so on.

And Indians do not have to work like dogs. Most of them have the education, aptitude and experience to get a specific task done faster and more efficiently so they get more done in 8 hours than some of their colleagues. Although there are exceptions like me.

What I meant was that they will work OT. Get the job done.

I have friends from India and they are hard workers. There is a sizable Indian population here in Kansas and its not a big city. One buddy is a Sikh priest and Ive been to his church, so I know.