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Scott Dierking

Turns out Phil Hughes is just bad, not hurt

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A few things:

1). I have never ball-washed Jacoby.

2). You are now throwing out wins to justify how good Hughes is?

3). You have never seen a Yankee that you don't wont to blow.

1) The entire boston PR dept has on this site.

2) Forget wins completely. Hughes threw 176 innings of very good baseball in his first year as a starter. All his peripherals bear that out.

3) An utterly moronic statement. I bash Yankee players in here all the time, something most of your Boston PR pals would never do to Boston players.

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Wins to judge a SP but can't count SB for Ellsbury. Who is spinning now?

What does wins have to do with stolen bases? you're making no sense. Hughes threw 176 innings of very good baseball no matter how many games he won. And Ellsbury still sucks.

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Lol, didn't Hughes' league leading 9.6 avg run support have something to do with those 18 wins?

He was way overrated last year. Just 15 quality starts last year; that's only ~50% of his starts and not even top 100 among starters for the %.

Edited by Sharrow

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What does wins have to do with stolen bases? you're making no sense. Hughes threw 176 innings of very good baseball no matter how many games he won. And Ellsbury still sucks.

Wins and SBs have nothnig to do with one another. Wins are a team statistic and SBs are an individual statistic. You are just a stat cherry picker. Hughes was good for two months and then was terrible. Just admit it.

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1) The entire boston PR dept has on this site.

2) Forget wins completely. Hughes threw 176 innings of very good baseball in his first year as a starter. All his peripherals bear that out.

3) An utterly moronic statement. I bash Yankee players in here all the time, something most of your Boston PR pals would never do to Boston players.

When have you ever bashed a Yankee? And I would love to give a dissertation on how much I loathe John Lackey. Dude sucks and is a horrible teammate.

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When have you ever bashed a Yankee? And I would love to give a dissertation on how much I loathe John Lackey. Dude sucks and is a horrible teammate.

Wow, that's really going out there on a limb....How about a player like JD Drew that the team can't wait to get off the books. How about "Lil Dusty and his .237 suckass average. How about Youk and that beaver on his face. How about Lowrie for f-ing with you, thinking he actually was good. How about Paps and that retarded mug. How about Becks and his pompous douchiness. How about Dice-K for taking 2 days to pitch 6 innings. How about

Jenks for stealing John Henry's $$$$$.. How about Lying Larry Lucchino. How about that douchebag windbag Jerry Remy and his smokers rasp everyday? THere is so many to choose from.

Lackey is an easy choice

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Wow, that's really going out there on a limb....How about a player like JD Drew that the team can't wait to get off the books. How about "Lil Dusty and his .237 suckass average. How about Youk and that beaver on his face. How about Lowrie for f-ing with you, thinking he actually was good. How about Paps and that retarded mug. How about Becks and his pompous douchiness. How about Dice-K for taking 2 days to pitch 6 innings. How about

Jenks for stealing John Henry's $$$$$.. How about Lying Larry Lucchino. How about that douchebag windbag Jerry Remy and his smokers rasp everyday? THere is so many to choose from.

Lackey is an easy choice

As I consider myself one of your therapists, my suggestion for you Jone is to let your true feelings out more.

That will free you and make you feel much better.

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So here is the deal...Hughes had a good year last year. Many Yankees fans feel like the kid can be great (myself included). He has a nice resume for a kid his age. Time will tell, the injury issue this year is a concern, no doubt.

But he has been part of one World Championship team already. And if he can come back this year and help out in the rotation, he has a chance at another one.

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Forget wins completely. Hughes threw 176 innings of very good baseball in his first year as a starter. All his peripherals bear that out.

Aside from his K/9, none of his other peripherals were better than the league average, let alone impressive.

For AL pitchers with 150+ IP last year, his BB/9, HR/9, ERA, FIP, xFIP were all below average.

Making nebulous statements regarding his performance doesn't pan out too well when the quantitative data is readily available.

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I'm too lazy to check, but I wonder what the consensus was around here regarding Matsuzaka's 2008 performance...

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Aside from his K/9, none of his other peripherals were better than the league average, let alone impressive.

For AL pitchers with 150+ IP last year, his BB/9, HR/9, ERA, FIP, xFIP were all below average.

Making nebulous statements regarding his performance doesn't pan out too well when the quantitative data is readily available.

I tried this and got scolded.

What makes YOU think YOU know what league average?

The balls on some people.

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What makes YOU think YOU know what league average?

Having the limited mental acumen required to export the custom data from FanGraphs to Excel to run the AVERAGE function on every column. That arduous task took all of 30 seconds, but I guess it's just easier to spout off claims based on biased observation rather than look at the actual data.

James Shields lost 15 games and had a 5.20 ERA last year with better peripherals than Hughes.

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Wow, that's really going out there on a limb....How about a player like JD Drew that the team can't wait to get off the books. How about "Lil Dusty and his .237 suckass average. How about Youk and that beaver on his face. How about Lowrie for f-ing with you, thinking he actually was good. How about Paps and that retarded mug. How about Becks and his pompous douchiness. How about Dice-K for taking 2 days to pitch 6 innings. How about

Jenks for stealing John Henry's $$$$$.. How about Lying Larry Lucchino. How about that douchebag windbag Jerry Remy and his smokers rasp everyday? THere is so many to choose from.

Lackey is an easy choice

Wow. You need help. I could address all of those one by one, but that would give this post more than it deserves.

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I'm too lazy to check, but I wonder what the consensus was around here regarding Matsuzaka's 2008 performance...

Dice-K had probably a very lucky year in 2008. He walked a TON of hitters but didn't give up very many hits and that kept his ERA low. Dice-K has no marbles. He has the stuff, but not the guts to execute it. He pitches like a sally.

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Dice-K had probably a very lucky year in 2008. He walked a TON of hitters but didn't give up very many hits and that kept his ERA low. Dice-K has no marbles. He has the stuff, but not the guts to execute it. He pitches like a sally.

Oh, there's no probably involved.

His K/9 was good for 6th in the AL (150+ IP), but he had a league-worst BB/9 (a disgusting 5.05) and the 13th worst xFIP for qualifying pitchers. His ERA-FIP was the second largest disparity in the league behind Armando Galarraga.

In 2008, he went 18-3 with a 2.90 ERA. In four less starts last year, he was 9-6 with a 4.69 ERA with essentially the same peripherals. Interestingly enough, he was 3rd in the AL in run support in 2008 and was 4th last year.

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From the Daily News

Yankees' Phil Hughes makes rehab start for Trenton, velocity still down as Brian Cashman watches

BY Ebenezer Samuel

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Originally Published:Friday, June 24th 2011, 11:05 PM

Updated: Saturday, June 25th 2011, 2:29 AM

NEW BRITAIN, Conn. - Friday was Phil Hughes' 25th birthday. But aside from the extra-large birthday cake that the opposing team presented him, he had little cause for celebration.

With Brian Cashman looking on, the Yankee righthander made his second rehab start, taking the mound for the Double-A Trenton Thunder against the New Britain Rock Cats and showcasing a fastball that was consistently in the low 90s.

But just five days after what he described as an "encouraging" rehab start in Brooklyn, Hughes' effort against the Rock Cats gave him no such confidence in the 3-2 Thunder loss. He needed 72 pitches to get through 31/3 innings, throwing just 42 strikes, and never looked dominant. In Sunday's rehab start, his fastball had touched 95; Friday, he didn't eclipse 93, and the Rock Cats routinely caught up with his pitches and fouled them off.

"I felt like I was uncharacteristically wild a little bit... my fastball was all over the place," said Hughes, who has been on the DL with a dead arm and shoulder inflammation since April 15. "I'm encouraged by the fact that I feel good and everything like that. But as far as the results and what I was doing out there, I'm not encouraged."

Hughes' final line (three strikeouts, two walks, three hits, one earned run) hardly told the story of his struggles. Hughes said he saw positives - he threw "some good cutters," felt "healthy" and gave up a pair of infield singles. But he never showcased overpowering stuff, inducing just six swing-and-miss strikes.

Hughes hit 93 on the radar gun seven times over the first two frames, needing 28 pitches to sail through two hitless stanzas. But his fastball never eclipsed 91 thereafter, and his control seemed to gradually abandon him.

He surrendered a one-out single to light-hitting center fielder Mark Dolenc in the third, then walked the next batter on four pitches. Things got worse in a 28-pitch fourth. He issued another full-count walk to Chris Parmelee, struck out a batter, then surrendered singles to Yangervis Solarte and Brian Dozier. Dozier's single scored Parmelee and signaled the end for Hughes.

"I wasn't ahead in a lot of counts," he said. "That was the biggest difference (between Friday and last Sunday), that my command was not as good today."

No wonder Cashman wants Hughes to keep rehabbing. In the ideal world, Hughes said, he'd like to be back with the Bombers after one more rehab start. But the GM has another plan.

"He'll probably need about two more to go, as long as the New York side is OK," Cashman said before the game. "As long as the New York side is OK, we'd like to stretch him up to about 100 pitches, increase him by about 15 every outing."

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Uh oh. Next step in his rehab? Marry Debra Clemens and get traded to Toronto. That'll put him right back on the path to the Hall.

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In his start with Single A Staten Island he gave up a monster homer to a lowly Brooklyn Cyclone in Brooklyn. The field is huge, it's near the ocean so there is wind current pushing in from the seas almost all the time and it's guys barely out of high school and college.There are very few homeruns given up there at all.Seems Phil Hughes does in fact suck.

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In his start with Single A Staten Island he gave up a monster homer to a lowly Brooklyn Cyclone in Brooklyn. The field is huge, it's near the ocean so there is wind current pushing in from the seas almost all the time and it's guys barely out of high school and college.There are very few homeruns given up there at all.Seems Phil Hughes does in fact suck.

This is as awful as a post can be. The guy is injured, was throwing 94 MPH in his rehab start which is a great sign and you're bitching about one homer he gave up in a good start? Really?

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I wish it were otherwise, that the guy who got injured after a great outing in Tezas was Phil Hughes. I don't know if it's injuries or lack of talent, or a lousy plan that the Yankees have for bringing up young pitchers. But what ever it is is, it dones't matter. Phil Hughes is not a decent MLB pitcher right now. And giving up a homer to a A player in a huge ballpark is embarrassing, whether it's on pitch 1 or pitch 61.

Edited by Bugg

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I wish it were otherwise, that the guy who got injured after a great outing in Tezas was Phil Hughes. I don't know if it's injuries or lack of talent, or a lousy plan that the Yankees have for bringing up young pitchers. But what ever it is is, it dones't matter. Phil Hughes is not a decent MLB pitcher right now. And giving up a homer to a A player in a huge ballpark is embarrassing, whether it's on pitch 1 or pitch 61.

It just might be that he is made for middle relief, and that is it.

He had a 3 month run as a good starting pitcher, and other than that, has shown to be mediocre to bad.

Beside the point that he is as fragile as a fabrege egg.

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SD and the other know nothings who have had a good time in this thread must be getting a little nervous at the reports that Hughes' velocity is back which pretty much proves that he was hurt earlier in the season.

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SD and the other know nothings who have had a good time in this thread must be getting a little nervous at the reports that Hughes' velocity is back which pretty much proves that he was hurt earlier in the season.

Right. Because Hughes gets shut down with a problem that most every other pitchers pitch through, he is all of a sudden going to become a great starting pitcher.

Dream on.

The most likely thing is that he stubs a toe and goes back on the 60 day DL-that is what has defined his career.

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Here is a comical view by nomaas'.com and their view of Hughes and injuries as this was written in 2008-It does not even take into account the most recent silliness.:

There is no medical definition for "injury prone" but we all know what it means. Repeated injuries usually to different parts of the body and those injuries generally tend to linger. It may be simply an unfortunate turn of events. It may be genetic. It may be that the player has not taken enough responsibility for his own body. There are many other variables you can take into account before labeling a player as injury-prone such as age, position or style of play. Phil Hughes has become the very definition for the simple fact that since he was taken in the 2004 draft, he has been injured at some point during 4 of those 5 seasons.Let's take a stroll down memory lane.

July 2004 - Phil makes his first start as a future Yankee. He's shut down with elbow stiffness the next day.

August 2004 - Phil breaks his toe running in the hallway of his hotel to answer his cell phone.

June 2005 - To the disabled list with shoulder tendinitis.

2006 - A year to remember. Phil pitched 146 innings and avoided the DL.

May 2007 - That damn hamstring. We blamed Marty Miller.

May 2007 - Suffers a grade 3 ankle sprain during rehabilitation. Does anything scream injury prone like getting injured in rehab?

May 2008 - Stress fracture to his rib. Still a mystery as to when and why that happened.

May 2008 - Is nearsightedness an injury?

None of those injuries in a vacuum look suspicious or are cause for concern. But then you look at the entire picture. We all hope Phil comes back, becomes the pitcher he's supposed to be and puts the injury bug behind him but if I was a betting woman, I wouldn't touch that one. Historically, past injury is often the best precursor of future injury.

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I love how you can't get an argument down. he sucks. he's injury prone. just throw the kitchen sink in the hopes that you don't look like more of a moron when he comes back in a few weeks. haha keep digging old man.

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I love how you can't get an argument down. he sucks. he's injury prone. just throw the kitchen sink in the hopes that you don't look like more of a moron when he comes back in a few weeks. haha keep digging old man.

It is both-The guy is hurt a lot and except for 3 months as a starter, has been very mediocre.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE THAT SAYS DIFFERENTLY? Thought so.

Phil Hughes-career as a starter-4.97 ERA, 1.368 WHIP. There is Madmike's love child as a pitcher. Defend that. If he were not a Yankee, Mike would be calling those numbers "garbage"

Edited by Scott Dierking

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Right. Because Hughes gets shut down with a problem that most every other pitchers pitch through, he is all of a sudden going to become a great starting pitcher.

Dream on.

The most likely thing is that he stubs a toe and goes back on the 60 day DL-that is what has defined his career.

Ike Davis is right next to him

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Ike Davis is right next to him

I don't know what Ike Davis has to do with this, but ok-What is your point?

What is the litany of injuries Ike has had?

Just like Hughes, he has not proven enough on the MLB level to be called more than average.

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It is both-The guy is hurt a lot and except for 3 months as a starter, has been very mediocre.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE THAT SAYS DIFFERENTLY? Thought so.

Phil Hughes-career as a starter-4.97 ERA, 1.368 WHIP. There is Madmike's love child as a pitcher. Defend that. If he were not a Yankee, Mike would be calling those numbers "garbage"

All his peripherals are good. Just like his WHIP. That plus the fact that he dominated every level of the minors and was a top of the rotation starter in his first full year as a starter after being a great RP points to him being a good pitcher for a long time if he's healthy. Your moronic hatred of him (probably only to try to argue with me) is nothing but cherry picking a few points without any context and keeping repeating them like a trained parrot to try to get some sort of reaction. Why don't you go pick up some geratol or something...

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All his peripherals are good. Just like his WHIP. That plus the fact that he dominated every level of the minors and was a top of the rotation starter in his first full year as a starter after being a great RP points to him being a good pitcher for a long time if he's healthy. Your moronic hatred of him (probably only to try to argue with me) is nothing but cherry picking a few points without any context and keeping repeating them like a trained parrot to try to get some sort of reaction. Why don't you go pick up some geratol or something...

4.97 ERA lifetime as a starter and 1.368 WHIP hardly qualify as good. They don't even qualify as average.

Keep throwing the word "peripheral" around without substance and you look foolish. Hector and I already posted Hughes' numbers to League average last year in this thread.

Turn him back to a reliever where he actually performed, and lessened his chance of injury.

Nothing but wishing by you in this thread.

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It just might be that he is made for middle relief, and that is it.

He had a 3 month run as a good starting pitcher, and other than that, has shown to be mediocre to bad.

Beside the point that he is as fragile as a fabrege egg.

I don't think his lowside at this point would even be considered middle relief. Since he was so good in the 8th inning, if it turns out that he can't handle being a starter he could close for someone.

But I am not giving up on this kid. He is 25 years old, his velocity is back up from the spring and I think he will help the Yankees out in the 2nd half. He has a shot to get his 2nd ring at 25 years of age. Not too shabby.

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I don't think his lowside at this point would even be considered middle relief. Since he was so good in the 8th inning, if it turns out that he can't handle being a starter he could close for someone.

But I am not giving up on this kid. He is 25 years old, his velocity is back up from the spring and I think he will help the Yankees out in the 2nd half. He has a shot to get his 2nd ring at 25 years of age. Not too shabby.

Never said "give up" on him.

Relief seems to be better suited to him. His numbers are far better in that role. Don't know if he has the temperament to be a closer.

BTW-we missed you this weekend.

Edited by Scott Dierking
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