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Scott Dierking

Turns out Phil Hughes is just bad, not hurt

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How would you describe mid twenties guys who are top of the rotation guys?

I would describe one of them out for the year....possibly for a career

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I would describe one of them out for the year....possibly for a career

His career is not in jeopardy, JonE. They are even saying he could be back this season. David Wright had the same injury and was out for a couple of months. Don't be so dramatic.

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More importantly lets talk about how much better Dave Robertson is than Bard.

If you're basing it on tonight, sure. If you're basing it on career body of work, Bard has been. They've both pitched well this season and before tonight were very close to one another. Bard hadn't given up a run since May, I'm willing to give him a pass tonight.

Lackey had been better of late, but he sucked again tonight. I trust him about 0%. And he's a d-bag to his teammates. That contract can't be over soon enough.

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If you're basing it on tonight, sure. If you're basing it on career body of work, Bard has been. They've both pitched well this season and before tonight were very close to one another. Bard hadn't given up a run since May, I'm willing to give him a pass tonight.

Lackey had been better of late, but he sucked again tonight. I trust him about 0%. And he's a d-bag to his teammates. That contract can't be over soon enough.

Robertson has been better and he's been better this year even before tonight. Shocking that you wouldn't agree though haha.

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Robertson has been better and he's been better this year even before tonight. Shocking that you wouldn't agree though haha.

Robertson was barely better before tonight. Both have pitched well this season, as I said before. Tonight was an aberration. Shocking you didn't say anything about Bard's scoreless streak though. ha ha ha!

I can at least give credit where it is due.

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Robertson was barely better before tonight. Both have pitched well this season, as I said before. Tonight was an aberration. Shocking you didn't say anything about Bard's scoreless streak though. ha ha ha!

I can at least give credit where it is due.

Before tonight Robertson's WAR was 1.8 and Bard's was 1.3. Thats substantial.

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Before tonight Robertson's WAR was 1.8 and Bard's was 1.3. Thats substantial.

Not everyone puts as much stock as you do into those stats. Based on stats that have been around a long, long time, they were pretty much pitching neck and neck with Robertson being a little better. Your original post said let's talk about how much better Robertson is than Bard. This season? Marginally. Career? It's Bard and it's not close.

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Career? It's Bard and it's not close.

Robertson--1 Ring

Bard--0 Ring

Robbie, and it's not even close

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They have almost an identical number of appearances and IP, so the comparison is pretty easy to make.

Aside from his (fantastic) K/9 and the fact that he has a better record (something I put zero stock in for RP's), there is absolutely nothing that suggests that Robertson has been the better pitcher over the course of their respective careers. That's not to say that Robertson hasn't been excellent this year, but he still needs to work on his control (as evidenced by his poor BB/9 and high number of wild pitches).

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Robertson--1 Ring

Bard--0 Ring

Robbie, and it's not even close

Youkilis 2

A-Rod 1

Therefore Youkilis>A-Rod and it's not even close. Right JonE?

Wakefield 2

CC 1

Therefore Wakefield>CC and it's not even close. Right JonE?

Just using your moronic logic against you.

By the way, Bard's ERA in his career is a full run less and his WHIP is also significantly lower.

Both are 26 and both could be closers in the waiting soon and both are having great seasons. That's all that needs to be said.

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Back on topic, is Hughes getting demoted to the pen?

Interesting.

Well, Nolan Ryan had to toil in the pen with HOF kind of stuff, so Phil is just going to have to take the same route.

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Back on topic, is Hughes getting demoted to the pen?

Interesting.

Well, Nolan Ryan had to toil in the pen with HOF kind of stuff, so Phil is just going to have to take the same route.

My cable went out, can anyone tell me how Hughes did tonight? Thanks.

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Bard and Robertson have pretty much equally good career xFIP and WAR stats. That being said, most of Robertson's quality has come from this year, so he has a worse track record and he also has horrible control; not something I like in a pitcher.

Phil Hughes is very talented and I'm sure he'll have a solid career.

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Bard and Robertson have pretty much equally good career xFIP and WAR stats. That being said, most of Robertson's quality has come from this year, so he has a worse track record and he also has horrible control; not something I like in a pitcher.

Phil Hughes is very talented and I'm sure he'll have a solid career.

The point is that Bard is all hyped up and Robertson had matched him up to this season and he's be been better this season. "Horrible" control is pushing it too.

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The point is that Bard is all hyped up and Robertson had matched him up to this season and he's be been better this season. "Horrible" control is pushing it too.

Robertson has not matched up to him until this year. And for career it's still not even close. Robertson is having a good year. So is Bard. The numbers don't lie.

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Robertson has not matched up to him until this year. And for career it's still not even close. Robertson is having a good year. So is Bard. The numbers don't lie.

Robertson's career FIP is a quarter of a run better because of his 12.1 k9.

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Robertson's career FIP is a quarter of a run better because of his 12.1 k9.

FIP? More made up stats? Is FIP on the back of baseball cards now? Just check the WHIP and ERA. You know the stats that have been around since forever.

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The point is that Bard is all hyped up and Robertson had matched him up to this season and he's be been better this season. "Horrible" control is pushing it too.

Robertson did not have him matched up until this season. Bard had almost double Robertson's WAR last season. And 4.91 BB/9 is pretty bad. Normally, I would say Robertson should consider dialing it down a bit, but he's been very effective in spite of the walks so idk.

And Roberston's career FIP is deflated by his luck in not giving up a home run yet this year. Before this year, his HR/FB hovered pretty steadily around 9%, so I would expect a regression. Then again, his K/9 has jumped this year so who knows.

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FIP? More made up stats? Is FIP on the back of baseball cards now? Just check the WHIP and ERA. You know the stats that have been around since forever.

WHIP was invented in 1979. And FIP is a lot better at predicting future ERA than ERA itself is.

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WHIP was invented in 1979. And FIP is a lot better at predicting future ERA than ERA itself is.

Not everyone believes in Sabremetrics or any stats like that. Lots of stats can help you predict lots of things, but I'd be willing to bet the majority of the time they aren't correct. Just look at meteorologists.

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Robertson did not have him matched up until this season. Bard had almost double Robertson's WAR last season. And 4.91 BB/9 is pretty bad. Normally, I would say Robertson should consider dialing it down a bit, but he's been very effective in spite of the walks so idk.

And Roberston's career FIP is deflated by his luck in not giving up a home run yet this year. Before this year, his HR/FB hovered pretty steadily around 9%, so I would expect a regression. Then again, his K/9 has jumped this year so who knows.

You're right about his luck with homers this season and that should probably normalize but the guy's career k9 is 12.1 that's an elite level RP.

Edited by madmikeisback

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WHIP was invented in 1979. And FIP is a lot better at predicting future ERA than ERA itself is.

Yeah. Invented. Back when I was a kid we had to add up the walks and hits divide by innings pitched all by ourselves!

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Yeah. Invented. Back when I was a kid we had to add up the walks and hits divide by innings pitched all by ourselves!

Good thing you had a slide rule to do the heavy lifting.

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Good thing you had a slide rule to do the heavy lifting.

One word. Abacus.

I don't think the Comodore 64 could handle such sophisticated calculations.

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I don't think the Comodore 64 could handle such sophisticated calculations.

BS. Micro League Baseball is one of the greatest sports sims of all-time.

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BS. Micro League Baseball is one of the greatest sports sims of all-time.

Dude.

Did you know that if you bunted a player that was a 4 or 5 in speed every time up they would hit around .500 in that game? It was a great loophole. Ah to be a kid again in the days before the internet!

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You're right about his luck with homers this season and that should probably normalize but the guy's career k9 is 12.1 that's an elite level RP.

Yeah, his K's are really really nice. His walks worry me but he's definitely elite. xFIP likes him and Bard equally while SIERA (which I'm not sure I understand yet) gives a slight edge to Bard. Any way you slice it, both of them are terrific and I would love to have either on my team. Also, SIERA likes Hughes a bit more than the other metrics.

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Hughes will win the AL Cy Young next season. Take it to the bank.

Is that likely to happen with a healthy Joba out there next year?

ACEEEEEE.

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Hughes will win the AL Cy Young next season. Take it to the bank.

GFY, Shortboy.

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GFY, Shortboy.

Why would a mod personally attack a poster? Cmon man you are better than that. If you aren't you need to be.

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