Scarface Mafia - The World is Yours

[Integrity28]

This is asking what WIFOM is being served, not what is WIFOM.

It's a valid question.

To which I provided an answer.

[SMC]

Thanks, but I wasn't asking what a WIFOM was, I was asking what WIFOM I-28 was intending to create.

Sucks that I misread what you wrote.

I28's WIFOM is already been shown to be misguided because as mentioned, if he's not scum, the scum now have a smaller pool to target power roles.

[Pac]

do you really think Pac has everything right in his first game?

yes

[Integrity28]

Personally, I'm torn between voting JC for being ignorant regarding I28's reveal & when/why it happened, and DPR for being so gung-ho against the ape and being so dense regarding balance; do you really think Pac has everything right in his first game?

Yes, I agree about JC, but...

The pirate can't be this bad at the game though, JF80 can, but not DPR... nothing about his pursuit of me resonates as pro-town.

He's spent an inordinate amount of time trying to unravel every explanation I've given him to his "questions" and trying to "appear" as though he's on the hunt. His logic is bad, he's mis-representing details I've given him repeatedly, and he's playing naive to a fault about certain things that are usually givens and he won't let the convo flow to anyone else.

At this point, I think he is scum. I think they believe I am bulletproof and/or hiding a more powerful role. I think that scum would make a 1-for-1 trade if it means lynching me now to take out a power.

[CTM]

Yes, I agree about JC, but...

The pirate can't be this bad at the game though, JF80 can, but not DPR... nothing about his pursuit of me resonates as pro-town.

He's spent an inordinate amount of time trying to unravel every explanation I've given him to his "questions" and trying to "appear" as though he's on the hunt. His logic is bad, he's mis-representing details I've given him repeatedly, and he's playing naive to a fault about certain things that are usually givens and he won't let the convo flow to anyone else.

At this point, I think he is scum. I think they believe I am bulletproof and/or hiding a more powerful role. I think that scum would make a 1-for-1 trade if it means lynching me now to take out a power.

OMGUS is an art form with you

[Dan.]

I gave up on that quest a long time ago - half of the reasoning in this game is based on the last game, or the game before. I28 and Dan in paticular are basing plays on people's styles, which metagaming to the hilt. meh

I just don't understand how it makes sense to make arguments based on balance in a 22-person game in which we've seen only 1 reveal, where it seems like multiple people have roles specially tailored to mess with them for Pac's entertainment. Even if you want to go that route, why harp on it over and over? You have no way of knowing what would be in the game, and it's not like he revealed to be some all-powerful role that can kill, investigate, and protect all at once. Lol. So I don't get how you're able to invent some game balance in your head when you have very little idea what Pac would have wanted to do.

[Verbal]

We have absolutely NO idea what Pac put in the game for balance ... I don't know why you keep basing arguments off of this. And as far as I'm concerned, it helps the scum more than town to know every little detail of Integrity's role.

^ This. And the exact reason my vote is on him. And he calls my play "different", but then mentions how he doesn't try to lecture on metagaming anymore.....hmm....see what you did right there? Yeah. Metagaming.

This. Not a fan of his Fredoesque play.

This made me lol. Nice.

[Integrity28]

Sucks that I misread what you wrote.

I28's WIFOM is already been shown to be misguided because as mentioned, if he's not scum, the scum now have a smaller pool to target power roles.

Well, its what I thought made sense at the time. Granted I made the decision after a weekend with 6 total hours of sleep, 9 total hours of intra-state travel and partied in between.

I think the whole "smaller pool" part of this convo is moot though on D1.

22 players. Maybe 4 scum? Lynch me, there are probably 17 people in the "pool" for them to shoot at.

Lynch someone else, they don't target me, there are 16 people. It's just not that big a deal at this stage.

[Verbal]

For what it's worth, I'm thinking that I28 is telling the truth, for the most part. If he's lying, I still think he's doing it pro-town. For now.

DPR, though.....not good. Either rusty, scummy, or both.

[Verbal]

Well, its what I thought made sense at the time. Granted I made the decision after a weekend with 6 total hours of sleep, 9 total hours of intra-state travel and partied in between.

I think the whole "smaller pool" part of this convo is moot though on D1.

22 players. Maybe 4 scum? Lynch me, there are probably 17 people in the "pool" for them to shoot at.

Lynch someone else, they don't target me, there are 16 people. It's just not that big a deal at this stage.

Agreed. Halfway through the game I'd say this was a bigger deal, but not right now. Having said that, I still think you should have been mum on the vest....but that's just my opinion. I'm not thinking it makes you auto-scum, though.

[Integrity28]

OMGUS is an art form with you

I will admit that in past games I used to play very OMGUS'y. In this game, I had to be the trainwreck to get it going, so activity around me is the only thing to really react to... so there is no way for me not to be in an OMGUS position.

But thank you just the same.

[DPR]

I just don't understand how it makes sense to make arguments based on balance in a 22-person game in which we've seen only 1 reveal, where it seems like multiple people have roles specially tailored to mess with them for Pac's entertainment. Even if you want to go that route, why harp on it over and over? You have no way of knowing what would be in the game, and it's not like he revealed to be some all-powerful role that can kill, investigate, and protect all at once. Lol. So I don't get how you're able to invent some game balance in your head when you have very little idea what Pac would have wanted to do.

I'm not arguing balance - and I'm not implying that anyone knows what kind of game PAC has put together.

None of that has been my argument at all. Again, I'm pointing out that I28's reveal has been the only game-related topic, and that we gain the most info off of his lynch. That's it.

It would also be fair to say that game balance is an OBSESSION of mine. heh. But, it does help to figure out if people are lying or not.

[CTM]

heh.. i think dm'ers often think differently then JN'ers and haven't been critical of some of DPR's ideas that seemed ludicrous over here. But even DM'ers are going after DPR, and now I'm second guessing myself.

Still, I think jf80 has been scummier when you factor in his floating the idea of a nolynch earlier, and his strong advocation of lynching the ape, when I believe he was the #2 vote getter at the time..

[DPR]

This. Not a fan of his Fredoesque play.

What is Frodoesque?

[CTM]

I will admit that in past games I used to play very OMGUS'y. In this game, I had to be the trainwreck to get it going, so activity around me is the only thing to really react to... so there is no way for me not to be in an OMGUS position.

But thank you just the same.

You've taken it beyond reactions to impying that DPR is scum, and willing to sell out on D1 to trade himself for you on the suspicion you might be lying and have a more powerful role. It's kind of crazy

[Jetsfan80]

What is Frodoesque?

Fredoesque. I.E. weak and stupid Fredo.

[Jetsfan80]

22 players. Maybe 4 scum? Lynch me, there are probably 17 people in the "pool" for them to shoot at.

Lynch someone else, they don't target me, there are 16 people. It's just not that big a deal at this stage.

If its not that big of a deal this early in the game, why go out of your way to try to create a crazy WIFOM on Day 1?

You already admitted that you decided to get Pac's instructions out of the way early on, so you had to know that the possible consequence was you having to role-reveal early as well.

[Integrity28]

You've taken it beyond reactions to impying that DPR is scum, and willing to see out on D1 to trade himself for you on the suspicion you might be lying and have a more powerful role. It's kind of crazy

Hahaha... okay.

It's better to be crazy and town, than the pirate pushing his chips all-in to take me out via lynch.

[slats]

This 4am manifesto is chock full o' scumminess, IMHO.

Revisionist history of I20ape's reveal. I could Monday morning QB what/how he chose to say, but what he did is certainly not out of character for him as town. In the end all he did was make himself a candidate for a lynch.

He seems to petition the mod to have SMC's post restriction count as our second reveal of the day. This benefits the town how?

He continues to question the legitimacy of giving an otherwise roleless townie a BP. We see it here often, and that's been brought up. We can circle back to what the monkey should've said, but none of that makes it less likely that we'd have a townie (or more) with some sort of NK protection - which he admits to right before trying to spin I20ape's actions as scum coming up with a cover story on their way home from Long Island.

He finishes up with a little cop direction, and shock that the monkey would mention the vest (again) and that he'd point the finger at people accusing him - as if these are things alien to I28.

My feeling is definitely that DPR is the scummiest thing we have going today. If people are resistant to vote him off because this is his first game back, I really hope we get to vote him off tomorrow. I'd be willing to move to JF80, who I also have high on my current list. He's coming across as clumsy scum. I don't think it would be difficult to put together a decent D1 case on him.

I won't be voting for the monkey today. I may not agree with the way he chose to reveal, but I get that he felt it was the best/townie way for him to approach it.

I also disagree with DPR on the way he's seeing things in general -and sometimes I mistake that for scumminess- but I have a difficult time seeing his POV from a townie perspective.

I've done a re-read, and have a few observations:

If you go back to page 19, you'll see that when I28 returns from his weekend of serial-killing frivolity, he's got 5 votes on him. His first post back is a lash at CTM for hopping on his train. Then, he begins to defend his FOS'ing, and through a series of posts, builds up to telling us that the Mod made him do it. He does detail that it's not a PR - just a one time thing.

So he came back from the weekend, saw he had the most votes, and went into damage control mode. Overreaction? Depends on how you look at it...

But, at the same time, SMC reveals that he does have a PR, and several comments are made about it.

Then, Pac announces that there is only one reveal left for today, and says that "If you say that you did something because the Mod made you do it, that's a reveal." But, PAC never says anything about SMC's reveal?

Mod? Can you clarify what exactly constitutes a reveal so that we don't stumble into using them?

So, PAC comes down on I28, and then I28 gives us the full-monty. Then he gets mad when we try to dissect it.

So here's where I'm at:

1. I asked why a roleless townie would be given a BPV, and I still wonder. Unless the mod is planning on throwing vests around like party favors, it would only make sense to "offer" a vest to a power role. (From a mod perspective, it would make more sense to tempt a power role to out themselves...seriously, why mess around with a roleless townie?).

As an answer to my question, I get the quote from above - Because it's Scarface. And, a vest is typically town. Expect lots of blood. My play stinks... I guess we're not supposed to aks questions? heh

2. I also asked what the value is in giving a roleless townie a vest? Again, how many vests are there? Does it not make sense to save those "one time opportunites" for power roles? I also mentioned that a revealed townie with a vest helps the mafia because it narrows the filed they have to chose from to NK a power role. That fact alone makes lynching i28 the most beneficial to the town. I have no idea if he's mafia, or if he's telling the truth - but the mafia does, and like I said before, leaving him on the board helps them.

For the record, I do understand the obvious value of an innocent. But, there is also value in lynching the player that gives us the most info, and right now, that's I28, just because he's been discussed the most and the most people have expressed opinions about it.

3. The last point I'll make is that if I was scum, and was out of town for the weekend, and came back to find I was the lynch-lead, I'd be real tempted to come up with a cover story. That's what struck me as odd about the ape's reveal. It would have been simple enough for him to say "You don't really think that all that FOS'ing waas real do you?" and blow off the rest. There was no need to go into more detail -

1. A Finder will be tempted to look at him now, and if I28 is innocent, that's a wasted view.

2. There was no reason that I can see that he would need to mention the vest.

3. It strikes me odd that he's fighting so hard to point the finger (that he said he was trying not to point) at everyone voting against him.

I'll wait for mod claification before rambling on with anymore.

[Integrity28]

If its not that big of a deal this early in the game, why go out of your way to try to create a crazy WIFOM on Day 1?

I created the wifom BECAUSE I don't think "smaller pool" is a big deal this early. This question doesn't even make sense.

You already admitted that you decided to get Pac's instructions out of the way early on, so you had to know that the possible consequence was you having to role-reveal early as well.

I posted the FOS (accepted the deal) while away for the weekend, and really didn't have a good idea if it was "early on" or not. So, I didn't say that. I said I got it out of the way in one cluster, so that it'd be more obvious it was part of my role versus peppering it in and looking like a scummer. At the time I didn't even know if there was a deadline or not. BUT since I had to complete it on D1, or lose out on the vest, I cranked it out on Sunday morning while eating breakfast with my family.

I've also said I WANTED to have a large train on me before I revealed, if it got to that. I was being cryptic on purpose, I was inviting people to vote me for more info, because I knew scum would be on my train. I thought we'd be positioned better on D1 lynching from a pool of 8-10 voters on me. It got screwed up with the early reveal.

[Sharrow]

What is Frodoesque?

AVM

[slats]

Like to also say that SMC's post restriction is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in one of these games.

JiF is purposely flying under the radar in an attempt to live thru D1, and is voting the monkey for revealing the exact same way he did last game - only to find himself killed by an angry mob with the help of a SK. Spiteful vote, but I get it.

CTM's another guy who I tend to disagree with, especially early in games. After seeing shooting JiF go badly for the town last game, I was surprised to see him say to the monkey that if a vig should reveal, we should have him shoot the ape.

[Integrity28]

I won't be voting for the monkey today. I may not agree with the way he chose to reveal, but I get that he felt it was the best/townie way for him to approach it.

Hahaha... perfectly timed. I've been looking back at some of my lengthy posts this game... ay caramba. When I play this game tired, I post first, think later. Its terrible.

Last game, I played on full nights of sleep and was like a different player. I'll try to get some shut eye the rest of this week and be more concise and coherent.

[Integrity28]

Official Vote Count:

AVM (1)- Sharrow

Hess (2) - Song, Hess

SMC (1) - Crusher

CTM (1) - SMC

DPR (4) - BG, Slats, Verb, JVor

JetFat80 (4) - WWwombat, JC, Nae, CTM

I20Ape (5) - Smash, Tom Shane, JF80, DPR, JiF

JVoR (1) - Brett

Brett (2) - Dan X, I28

Jetscode (1) - AVM

With 22 maricons alive, it takes 12 to lynch

Deadline is 4/20 at 10PM EST

Are Song and Hess really both voting for Hess?

[Pac]

Are Song and Hess really both voting for Hess?

yes.

[Jetsfan80]

I'll try to get some shut eye the rest of this week and be more concise and coherent.

G'night.

[Integrity28]

Integrity28 72

Jetsfan80 64

CTM 50

AVM 44

D P R 44

Pac2566 43

Dan X 40

Naeann 40

Jets Voice of Reason 35

Song of Ice and Fire 28

HessStation 26

SMC 26

Sharrow 25

The Crusher 22

JiF 21

T0mShane 20

slats 18

Bleedin Green 15

Smashmouth 15

WWWWombat 14

Verbal 12

brettw4rd 7

Jetscode1 7

Looking over this list: Hess, Song, Brett, JC all stand out to me most of the inactives. JC didn't know the context of my reveal. Brett feigned outrage at my BP claim. Hess and Song have pretty much disappeared and not made game posts since I started making a ruckus, plus they are both voting Hess. They only got into the 20's on post count by posting nonsense.

[CTM]

CTM's another guy who I tend to disagree with, especially early in games. After seeing shooting JiF go badly for the town last game, I was surprised to see him say to the monkey that if a vig should reveal, we should have him shoot the ape.

THe game prior it worked out great, remember..

and it would've never happenned if jif wasn't stupid

[DPR]

This 4am manifesto is chock full o' scumminess, IMHO.

Revisionist history of I20ape's reveal. I could Monday morning QB what/how he chose to say, but what he did is certainly not out of character for him as town. In the end all he did was make himself a candidate for a lynch.

He seems to petition the mod to have SMC's post restriction count as our second reveal of the day. This benefits the town how?

He continues to question the legitimacy of giving an otherwise roleless townie a BP. We see it here often, and that's been brought up. We can circle back to what the monkey should've said, but none of that makes it less likely that we'd have a townie (or more) with some sort of NK protection - which he admits to right before trying to spin I20ape's actions as scum coming up with a cover story on their way home from Long Island.

He finishes up with a little cop direction, and shock that the monkey would mention the vest (again) and that he'd point the finger at people accusing him - as if these are things alien to I28.

My feeling is definitely that DPR is the scummiest thing we have going today. If people are resistant to vote him off because this is his first game back, I really hope we get to vote him off tomorrow. I'd be willing to move to JF80, who I also have high on my current list. He's coming across as clumsy scum. I don't think it would be difficult to put together a decent D1 case on him.

I won't be voting for the monkey today. I may not agree with the way he chose to reveal, but I get that he felt it was the best/townie way for him to approach it.

I also disagree with DPR on the way he's seeing things in general -and sometimes I mistake that for scumminess- but I have a difficult time seeing his POV from a townie perspective.

You and I always think each other is scummy - and right now, I could go on and on over your defense of the ape being scummy - but I know better than to try and judge you on D1.

Having said that, let me clear up a few points -

- I did not petition the mod to have SMC's post restriction count as our second reveal of the day. I asked what we could expect from the mod so that we cut down on any confusion. You're spinning this.

- I absolutely question the legitimacy of the mod offering a roleless townie a BVP. I also question a role that allows the player to "cut deals" with the mod. None of that makes any sense to me, so I thought I would throw it out there. Love it or hate it, I've at least offered an opinion on what we've been talking about, in an absence of anything else to talk about. If everyone would pony up and offer an opinion, we'd have a lot more to go on.

- I uderstand that the best way for the ape to get out of a lynch is to try and make me look scummy, but that's as bad of a play as revealing the vest. For the record, I've made a point to just try and present evidence and opinions. I've left out the vast majority of the sarcasm, and have not really gone after I28. I don't know if he's scum or not, for the tenth time, I'm just looking at which play will give us the most info, and that benefits the town.

Seriously, let's say he is town, and I'm scum - why in the world would I stick my neck out when I know I could just coast like half of the game?

I'm much more of an active player, which everybody knows.

My vote still stays - I still say an I28 lynch gives us the most info. I'm not rusty or scummy. Just playing the game.

[Integrity28]

So DPR wants to lynch me "for info" but not because he thinks I'm scum.

Cool.

Unvote

Vote DPR

OMGUS MONKEY has to catch a flight. I'll check back in tonight unless I can grab wi-fi en route.

[Integrity28]

- I uderstand that the best way for the ape to get out of a lynch is to try and make me look scummy, but that's as bad of a play as revealing the vest. For the record, I've made a point to just try and present evidence and opinions. I've left out the vast majority of the sarcasm, and have not really gone after I28. I don't know if he's scum or not, for the tenth time, I'm just looking at which play will give us the most info, and that benefits the town.

I haven't had to try to make you look scummy.

You haven't presented evidence. There is no evidence. What are you talking about?

You've strung together weak logic, and naive points of view... you have absolutely gone after me. You voted me immediately after I revealed. What is not "going after me" about that? You have essentially APE CASED me relentlessly.

Your campaign against me has done the opposite of garner info too, it has eaten up much of D1 with ZERO heat on other players. So I don't buy that "info" is your underlying motivation.

With that, I'm out.

[Jetsfan80]

With that, I'm out.

[AVM]

AVM

Our numbers are weakened without teh Vicious...but we shall not be defeated, my friend.

Integrity28 72

Jetsfan80 64

CTM 50

AVM 44

D P R 44

Pac2566 43

Dan X 40

Naeann 40

Jets Voice of Reason 35

Song of Ice and Fire 28

HessStation 26

SMC 26

Sharrow 25

The Crusher 22

JiF 21

T0mShane 20

slats 18

Bleedin Green 15

Smashmouth 15

WWWWombat 14

Verbal 12

brettw4rd 7

Jetscode1 7

Looking over this list: Hess, Song, Brett, JC all stand out to me most of the inactives. JC didn't know the context of my reveal. Brett feigned outrage at my BP claim. Hess and Song have pretty much disappeared and not made game posts since I started making a ruckus, plus they are both voting Hess. They only got into the 20's on post count by posting nonsense.

Song did say there was an issue she was dealing with, FWIW, and she doesn't post in the higher volume a lot of this crowd does.

JC, however, is scum. Bank on it

[Jetsfan80]

Our numbers are weakened without teh Vicious...but we shall not be defeated, my friend.

Song did say there was an issue she was dealing with, FWIW, and she doesn't post in the higher volume a lot of this crowd does.

JC, however, is scum. Bank on it

Hess's low post count is the only useful information to be gleaned. JC and Brett are always on the low end of the list.

(ZOMG 80's META-GAMING!)

[DPR]

I haven't had to try to make you look scummy.

You haven't presented evidence. There is no evidence. What are you talking about?

You've strung together weak logic, and naive points of view... you have absolutely gone after me. You voted me immediately after I revealed. What is not "going after me" about that? You have essentially APE CASED me relentlessly.

Your campaign against me has done the opposite of garner info too, it has eaten up much of D1 with ZERO heat on other players. So I don't buy that "info" is your underlying motivation.

With that, I'm out.

With that, you're a buffoon.

You're than one that revealed, poncho, making yourself the one and only topic of conversation. And as much as you'd like everyone to overlook your play, it is the only thing on the table, and ignoring it seems unwise.

Beating it to death is a pain in the a$$ as well, but I'm not going to sit here and let you make a bad play, then try to tell me that I'm stringing together weak logic. I'm making very basic game points - nothing fancy here. And yes, lynching the person that gives the town the most info is the best way for the town to win. Especially on D1, and even without knowing exactly what their alignment is. In light of the fact that you've revealed a fairly useless role to the town, all we have to lose by lynching you is the possible loss of a townie, which is likely on D1 anyhow.

Have a bannana and quit yer cryin'.