Matt39 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Cabrera, Gonzalez or Bautista? I'm going with Bautista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Cabrera, Gonzalez or Bautista? I'm going with Bautista. Why? Because Bautista has a few more home runs or because he has less around him? Gonzalez would get my vote. He leads the league in numerous categories and he plays stellar defense. Bautista is not good on D. The Jays are also a 4th place team and fading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why? Because Bautista has a few more home runs or because he has less around him? Gonzalez would get my vote. He leads the league in numerous categories and he plays stellar defense. Bautista is not good on D. The Jays are also a 4th place team and fading. Better OPS, OBP, slugging, more home runs...he's the better hitter. The only categories Gonzalez leads him in is RBI's and batting average. And RBI's aren't a great stat anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Better OPS, OBP, slugging, more home runs...he's the better hitter. The only categories Gonzalez leads him in is RBI's and batting average. And RBI's aren't a great stat anyways. Gonzalez also leads in doubles, triples, hits, and is a Gold Glove candidate. I thought this was Most Valuable Player? You want to give Bautista a Silver Slugger, go ahead. Who is more important to their team. Without A-Gon the Sox would not be in 1st place. Without Bautista wouldn't the Jays still be in 4th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Gonzalez also leads in doubles, triples, hits, and is a Gold Glove candidate. I thought this was Most Valuable Player? You want to give Bautista a Silver Slugger, go ahead. Who is more important to their team. Without A-Gon the Sox would not be in 1st place. Without Bautista wouldn't the Jays still be in 4th? Its not Bautista's fault he's on a bad team. Bautista gets on base more...its pretty simple right now he's the better hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Way too early to begin discussing, but I'll entertain it. Bautista plays for a loser and has had a pedestrian month of June (though he did the same last year). The problem for Gonzalez is that he's not exactly carrying the team with the way guys like Ortiz and Ellisbury are playing. My current favorite would be Miggy, but like I said, too much can change over the next 3+ months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Bautista has the best numbers but Ganzalez will probably win it. I wish the yankees were as good as affinity scams as boston is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its not Bautista's fault he's on a bad team. Bautista gets on base more...its pretty simple right now he's the better hitter. I'm not saying he isn't. You said most valuable player. Not best hitter. Long way in the season to go. It could go to either of those three guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Bautista has the best numbers but Ganzalez will probably win it. I wish the yankees were as good as affinity scams as boston is. One trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 One trick pony. It keeps being true so I'm gonna keep talking about it.You should at least have a little honesty and admit it. If anything it shows that your FO knows what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It keeps being true so I'm gonna keep talking about it.You should at least have a little honesty and admit it. If anything it shows that your FO knows what they are doing. It's not true. The Padres got a great package in return. The 21 year old first baseman is already up in the majors. The other prospects are performing well. Casey Kelly was ranked 22nd by MLB.com in terms of best prospects. Go do some research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It's not true. The Padres got a great package in return. The 21 year old first baseman is already up in the majors. The other prospects are performing well. Casey Kelly was ranked 22nd by MLB.com in terms of best prospects. Go do some research. Kelly is a middling AA pitcher and Rizzo is a decent prospect who will be a Lyle Overbay type player. It's a decent package but it's a joke that they traded their 28 year old best player who was making nothing for that package without getting even ONE major league player like Buchholz or Bard. Shockingly they have the 2nd worst record in baseball! Who would've thunk it. (They were in first place on this date last year BTW) Hoyer was just doing his ex bosses a favor and in a few years when he's fired from SD he'll be right back as an overpaid middle management type in boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The Padres couldn't give him the money. The prospects they got back were more than anyone else could offer. Kelly will be a great starter for them within the next year or two. You're beating a dead donkey. Find something else to be wrong about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The Padres couldn't give him the money. The prospects they got back were more than anyone else could offer. Kelly will be a great starter for them within the next year or two. You're beating a dead donkey. Find something else to be wrong about. Stop being a boston talking points machine. You're broken record. There is zero evidence to believe that Kelly will be great at anything. How the hell do you know what they were offered from other teams? Or what they would've got at the deadline, or if they could've kept him. What major league players they could've gotten to avoid being one of the worst teams in baseball because Hoyer wanted to help out his boy Theo. It's shocking that he would be shameless enough to do that travesty of a trade. It's horrible for baseball and it looks awful because of who made it. Who knows maybe Hoyer is just a completely moron but i doubt it. The yankees have never made a trade like this for a great player in his prime making nothing without having to give up a huge price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Stop being a boston talking points machine. You're broken record. There is zero evidence to believe that Kelly will be great at anything. How the hell do you know what they were offered from other teams? Or what they would've got at the deadline, or if they could've kept him. What major league players they could've gotten to avoid being one of the worst teams in baseball because Hoyer wanted to help out his boy Theo. It's shocking that he would be shameless enough to do that travesty of a trade. It's horrible for baseball and it looks awful because of who made it. Who knows maybe Hoyer is just a completely moron but i doubt it. The yankees have never made a trade like this for a great player in his prime making nothing without having to give up a huge price. How do we know what the actual price for the trade will be before the prospects develop? At the time of the trade they were and still are some of the top prospects of the game. That is fact. Look it up. San Diego admitted they could not keep him. Also fact, look it up. How do you not know that this wasn't the best they could do? The longer they waited to trade him, the less the package gets from most teams because it is a shorter window in which to re-sign the guy. The Red Sox did give up a huge price in prospects and the trade cannot be a travesty until the whole thing pans out. I'm not sure why you think a young player in his prime going to a major market is a terrible thing for baseball. Everyone knew they had to trade him and San Diego did the best it could do, or it would have done something else. To accuse someone of what you're accusing them of is slanderous and borderline libel. It's a good thing you're just a nerd with a keyboard and not a journalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 How do we know what the actual price for the trade will be before the prospects develop? At the time of the trade they were and still are some of the top prospects of the game. That is fact. Look it up. San Diego admitted they could not keep him. Also fact, look it up. How do you not know that this wasn't the best they could do? The longer they waited to trade him, the less the package gets from most teams because it is a shorter window in which to re-sign the guy. The Red Sox did give up a huge price in prospects and the trade cannot be a travesty until the whole thing pans out. I'm not sure why you think a young player in his prime going to a major market is a terrible thing for baseball. Everyone knew they had to trade him and San Diego did the best it could do, or it would have done something else. To accuse someone of what you're accusing them of is slanderous and borderline libel. It's a good thing you're just a nerd with a keyboard and not a journalist. They got BOSTON'S best prospects. That doesn't mean they are some of the best in the game. Kelly is putting up mediocre numbers and Rizzo will be a nice player. Nothing more. The idea that a team would trade their best player who was 28 years old for a few prospects and zero major league players is a total disgrace. The only thing more laughable is that you don't see how horrible it is for baseball. That is the weird bawston bubble that apparently you live in. A team that was ONE GAME out of the wild card last year and had made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years basically gave up 2-3 years of being a last place joke to help your team out! It's an utter joke. Ask a Pods fan about how great Casey Kelly is. If you think those 2 prospects were a huge price you're just being a delusional homer. A huge price is what the Yankee gave up for Arod, the 27 year old best 2B in baseball at the time + prospects. A good young MAJOR LEAGUER plus good prospects and it would've been more if arod didn't have an insane contract. Gonzalez is making 6 million this year. The fact that boston didn't have to give up AT LEAST Buchholz and probably Bard too is just an utter travesty. Hoyer is one of two things, one of the stupidest people in baseball or running an affinity scam. Period. The idea that you're accusing me of slander or libel (they aren't the same thing) for pointing this out just shows how immune to facts you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I know the difference between slander and libel. You are out of your mind obviously. I'm not going to touch this topic again until you have proof of anything you actually claim. And since you never will I'm done. Oh and I love your revisionist history. There were no good prospects sent to Texas for A Rod. Just an overrated soriano and a PTBNL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I know the difference between slander and libel. You are out of your mind obviously. I'm not going to touch this topic again until you have proof of anything you actually claim. And since you never will I'm done. Oh and I love your revisionist history. There were no good prospects sent to Texas for A Rod. Just an overrated soriano and a PTBNL. He might have been overrated however he's gonna end up with a MUCH better pro career than anyone in the Gonzalez trade and he was a proven MLB 2 time All star when he was traded. The PTBNL was the 3rd best prospect in the Yankee system (It could've been Cano too) at the time according to BA. The fact that he didn't hit really doesn't mean anything at the time. Thats what happens with prospects and it's why the Rangers got a proven MLB player in that trade. You're just making my point for me. The Rangers were in a MUCH MUCH worse position than the Padres were and they got a proven player and a chance at another good prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Please show me any articles from respected news outlets that said the Padres got robbed or didn't get value. Until you do this topic is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Please show me any articles from respected news outlets that said the Padres got robbed or didn't get value. Until you do this topic is done. Nice give up post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Nice give up post. Do the research and prove it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Do the research and prove it wrong. I'd give it to Ells before Gonzo Nevertheless, Grandy would be my choice up to this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'd give it to Ells before Gonzo Nevertheless, Grandy would be my choice up to this point Grandy has a better case than Bautista in my mind. Who knows where the Yanks would be without Grandy picking up the slack. And he is a good defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Kelly is a middling AA pitcher and Rizzo is a decent prospect who will be a Lyle Overbay type player. It's a decent package but it's a joke that they traded their 28 year old best player who was making nothing for that package without getting even ONE major league player like Buchholz or Bard. Shockingly they have the 2nd worst record in baseball! Who would've thunk it. (They were in first place on this date last year BTW) Hoyer was just doing his ex bosses a favor and in a few years when he's fired from SD he'll be right back as an overpaid middle management type in boston. Rizzo is 21, already in the majors, and hit 17 HRs/drove in 63 RBIs in the games leading up to his call up. He's one of the best offensive prospects in the game. I like Kelly and Fuentes a great deal too...particularly Fuentes. I'd vote for Gonzalez right now, but this could change in what should be a pretty exciting race. If Bautista keeps this up though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Gonzalez, by a lot. Granderson is playing third fiddle behind ARoid and Texiera. Bautista is the last of the juice cowboys. The Sox took off once Gonzalez got his feet under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Bautista has the best numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Gonzalez, by a lot. Granderson is playing third fiddle behind ARoid and Texiera. Bautista is the last of the juice cowboys. The Sox took off once Gonzalez got his feet under him. OPS+ Granderson: 152 Tex: 140 A-rod: 132 12 is a decent difference...I'd say Granderson is the best offensive Yankee this year so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Rizzo is 21, already in the majors, and hit 17 HRs/drove in 63 RBIs in the games leading up to his call up. He's one of the best offensive prospects in the game. Meh. PCL numbers are equivalent to hitting in Coors field circa 1995 while cycling on Winstrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Kelly is a middling AA pitcher Your opinion aside, the scouts still seemed to be pretty high on Kelly coming into this season: Ranking in ScoutingBook (6/22/2011): #13 Ranking in MLB.com Season Preview: #22 Ranking from Sports Illustrated/AOL: #29 Ranking from ESPN: #19 Ranking in Baseball America 2011: #31 Ranking in Baseball Prospectus: #48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Kelly is a middling AA pitcher and Rizzo is a decent prospect who will be a Lyle Overbay type player. It's a decent package but it's a joke that they traded their 28 year old best player who was making nothing for that package without getting even ONE major league player like Buchholz or Bard. Shockingly they have the 2nd worst record in baseball! Who would've thunk it. (They were in first place on this date last year BTW) Hoyer was just doing his ex bosses a favor and in a few years when he's fired from SD he'll be right back as an overpaid middle management type in boston. Please enlighten us one what you would have done if you were Hoyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Gotta give the Sox credit for going after Gonzalez. It's like it used to be for Mike Lowell; Fenway is perfect for him. I guess if you want to hold that against him is up to the individual. I'd give it to Bautista if his team was a real contender, but I have a hard time giving the 2 big awards to a player on teams that aren't going to make the playoffs unless they're head and shoulders better than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Gotta give the Sox credit for going after Gonzalez. It's like it used to be for Mike Lowell; Fenway is perfect for him. I guess if you want to hold that against him is up to the individual. I'd give it to Bautista if his team was a real contender, but I have a hard time giving the 2 big awards to a player on teams that aren't going to make the playoffs unless they're head and shoulders better than everyone else. While I tend to agree, right or wrong, a precedent was set by A-Rod in 2003. If all things remain the same, Bautista making a run at 50 and 1100+ OPS, Jays staying in the wild card race to September, you can argue he is an MVP. In the end, the talent surrounding him is less than Gonzo's and Cabrera's. Bautista would be worthy and is the favorite right nw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Apparently JN is not idiot proof yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Apparently JN is not idiot proof yet. You would be staring at a blank screen if it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Please enlighten us one what you would have done if you were Hoyer. Depends on the back end package my boy Theo is gonna give me when I'm fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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