madmikeisback Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Apparently JN is not idiot proof yet. No better complement than being called an idiot by a true moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Your opinion aside, the scouts still seemed to be pretty high on Kelly coming into this season: Ranking in ScoutingBook (6/22/2011): #13 Ranking in MLB.com Season Preview: #22 Ranking from Sports Illustrated/AOL: #29 Ranking from ESPN: #19 Ranking in Baseball America 2011: #31 Ranking in Baseball Prospectus: #48 Look at his numbers this season. He's a middling AA pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Look at his numbers this season. He's a middling AA pitcher. 21 years old and in his second full year of just pitching in AA. Seems like a sensible time to judge how good he is. I'll just go ahead and lean on the experts who have been doing this as a profession for years to tell me how good this kid could be and not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yeah it's his second year in AA and he's getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yeah it's his second year in AA and he's getting worse. Yet all of his stats have improved. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yet all of his stats have improved. Crazy. He's the same mediocre AA pitcher he's been for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 He's the same mediocre AA pitcher he's been for 2 years. He is also only 21 and only on his second full season of pitching. Too soon to know anything or judge him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 He is also only 21 and only on his second full season of pitching. Too soon to know anything or judge him. Take a look at hughes numbers when he got to AA or when he was 21. But he sucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Take a look at hughes numbers when he got to AA or when he was 21. But he sucks... What does Phil Hughes have to with any of this? Casey Kelly is not Phil Hughes. Come on with these terrible arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Take a look at hughes numbers when he got to AA or when he was 21. But he sucks... Apples and pranges. If Casey came out of HS and decided to only pitch, then your argument would have some validity. However, Casey still played in the field up until 2009. The past two seasons he has been solely devoted to pitching. And as CC40 points out, his numbers have gotten better. Of course you only see things in a vaccum and what happens one year carries true for every season of a person's career. Except Granderson who has sucked balls for a majority of his career except for about 2.5 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Derek jeter is the al mvp. Once he got hurt the yankees really took.it to another level. I assume because he is niw coaching behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Derek jeter is the al mvp. Once he got hurt the yankees really took.it to another level. I assume because he is niw coaching behind the scenes. Well played Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Its Bautista and it isnt even close. Bonds like numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Its Bautista and it isnt even close. Bonds like numbers. Then he deserves a silver slugger award. Again, this is most VALUABLE player. Not player with the most homeruns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Then he deserves a silver slugger award. Again, this is most VALUABLE player. Not player with the most homeruns. Bautista is by far the most valuable player in baseball. And it isnt even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Bautista is by far the most valuable player in baseball. And it isnt even close. You can tell that by how great his fourth place team is doing. The Jays are a 4th place team with or without Bautista. And his defense is marginal at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 You can tell that by how great his fourth place team is doing. The Jays are a 4th place team with or without Bautista. And his defense is marginal at best. Why does it matter that the Blue Jays are in 4th place? The AL East is by far the best division in baseball and he is by far the best player in baseball right now. You dont give guys awards because they're lucky enough to play on a better team when they clearly have inferior statistics. No one around here thinks Granderson or Teixiera are the MVP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Why does it matter that the Blue Jays are in 4th place? The AL East is by far the best division in baseball and he is by far the best player in baseball right now. You dont give guys awards because they're lucky enough to play on a better team when they clearly have inferior statistics. No one around here thinks Granderson or Teixiera are the MVP's. You're starting a team today. Who would you rather have A-Gon or Bautista? Grandy has a decent case. He's a big reason why the Yankees are contenders right now. He hit well while a lot of others struggled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 You're starting a team today. Who would you rather have A-Gon or Bautista? Grandy has a decent case. He's a big reason why the Yankees are contenders right now. He hit well while a lot of others struggled. What does that have to do with the 2011 MVP? Bautista is having a better season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 What does that have to do with the 2011 MVP? Bautista is having a better season. What does having the better season have to do with being the most VALUABLE player? You need a dictionary. Bautista is having a great season no doubt, but A-Gon is having just as good of a season for a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 What does having the better season have to do with being the most VALUABLE player? You need a dictionary. Bautista is having a great season no doubt, but A-Gon is having just as good of a season for a better team. How is Gonzalez a more valuable player? Because he's lucky enough to play on a better team? That's absurd. Bautista is having a a better season statistically therefore he's the more valuable player to his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 How is Gonzalez a more valuable player? Because he's lucky enough to play on a better team? That's absurd. Bautista is having a a better season statistically therefore he's the more valuable player to his team. I never said A-Gon was MORE valuable, I said he was as valuable. It'll be a hotly contested race for the rest of the season. Your last statement is incorrect. A better season does not mean more valuable to your team. Having more homeruns in losing efforts is not that valuable. If your hits matter, then that is different. If numbers stay the same for the remainder of the season and the Sox win the AL East and the Blue Jays stay in 4th place, who was more valuable to their team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Heck, if Konerko keeps up his season the White Sox win their division, he has a better case than Bautista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 I never said A-Gon was MORE valuable, I said he was as valuable. It'll be a hotly contested race for the rest of the season. Your last statement is incorrect. A better season does not mean more valuable to your team. Having more homeruns in losing efforts is not that valuable. If your hits matter, then that is different. If numbers stay the same for the remainder of the season and the Sox win the AL East and the Blue Jays stay in 4th place, who was more valuable to their team? :lol: This is so ridiculous its hardly worth commenting on. You realize Gonzalez has probably had double the opportunities Bautista has had to put up those numbers? And even then, Bautista still has better individual numbers other than RBI's, which isn't a good statistic anyway to judge individual performance. MVP isn't a team award. Its an individual award and Bautista has been the best individual player. I don't fault awesome players for being on bad teams in an individual sport. Matt Kemp is the NL MVP right now and he's on a bad team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 :lol: This is so ridiculous its hardly worth commenting on. You realize Gonzalez has probably had double the opportunities Bautista has had to put up those numbers? And even then, Bautista still has better individual numbers other than RBI's, which isn't a good statistic anyway to judge individual performance. MVP isn't a team award. Its an individual award and Bautista has been the best individual player. I don't fault awesome players for being on bad teams in an individual sport. Matt Kemp is the NL MVP right now and he's on a bad team. I'd say Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, Lance Berkman, and others have an argument in the NL. Honestly though, no one has been more valuable to their team in the NL than McCutchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 I'd say Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, Lance Berkman, and others have an argument in the NL. Honestly though, no one has been more valuable to their team in the NL than McCutchen. What are you basing that on? Or are you just saying that because the Pirates are having a decent season? I'm going to assume the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 What are you basing that on? Or are you just saying that because the Pirates are having a decent season? I'm going to assume the latter. The Pirates are having a great season by their standards and a big reason for that is McCutchen. If the Blue Jays finish below .500 the chances for Bautista winning the MVP go way. Agreed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 The Pirates are having a great season by their standards and a big reason for that is McCutchen. If the Blue Jays finish below .500 the chances for Bautista winning the MVP go way. Agreed? The biggest reason the Pirates are having a good season is because of their pitching. They're 5th in the NL in whip and era. If Bautista continues on this pace, regardless of where the Blue Jays fall...he's the MVP. By a lot. You realize Toronto cant pitch, at all? He's putting up Bonds steroid numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The biggest reason the Pirates are having a good season is because of their pitching. They're 5th in the NL in whip and era. If Bautista continues on this pace, regardless of where the Blue Jays fall...he's the MVP. By a lot. You realize Toronto cant pitch, at all? He's putting up Bonds steroid numbers. How many players have won the MVP on a losing team? 6, maybe 7 in all of the years of the MVP race. The Baseball Writers are a fickle bunch. The Pirates are getting some good pitching, but McCutchen is the driving force on that team offensively. If they gave real consideration to pitchers for the award, obviously the MVP vote would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 How many players have won the MVP on a losing team? 6, maybe 7 in all of the years of the MVP race. The Baseball Writers are a fickle bunch. The Pirates are getting some good pitching, but McCutchen is the driving force on that team offensively. If they gave real consideration to pitchers for the award, obviously the MVP vote would be different. What does that even mean? A bunch of guys have won the MVP without making the playoffs. And I dont think any of them had better numbers than what Bautista is putting up righ tnow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 What does that even mean? A bunch of guys have won the MVP without making the playoffs. And I dont think any of them had better numbers than what Bautista is putting up righ tnow. Without making the playoffs sure, losing teams not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6746566 Here is Jayson Stark's take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6746566 Here is Jayson Stark's take. So Adrian Gonzalez gets credit for overcoming the "insurmountable" 2-10 start, yet doesnt take any heat for them starting 2-10? Okay. If he was so valuable why did the Red Sox start 2-10? Just an assinine argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 So Adrian Gonzalez gets credit for overcoming the "insurmountable" 2-10 start, yet doesnt take any heat for them starting 2-10? Okay. If he was so valuable why did the Red Sox start 2-10? Just an assinine argument. Lighten up Francis. Gonzalez was one of the few position players hitting those first two weeks relatively speaking. Of all the Sox problems, he was not one of them. There were too many players hitting far worse than him and too many pitchers (starters and relievers) pitching like $hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Lighten up Francis. Gonzalez was one of the few position players hitting those first two weeks relatively speaking. Of all the Sox problems, he was not one of them. There were too many players hitting far worse than him and too many pitchers (starters and relievers) pitching like $hit. Derek Jeter never started 2 and 10 in the majors. If Adrian had better leadership skills and intangibles this never would have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.