Gold $1600 an ounce!

[Plus One]

Everyone makes mistakes, however, you havent shown supporting facts how we're in the late innings, but I can show how UT is buying, China's buying, India's buying, Mexico's buying, and Germany's tight because their gold was sold into the market in NY etc., and this is happening TODAY. On top of that I can show you how we're still borrowing, we're still printing and the markets are still being manipulated. In otherwords, the fundamentals imo on why Gold and silver are going through the roof are still in play. Am I wrong?

You have investment experience....im willing to listen to your point.

They were all buying semiconductor stocks in 1999. They were all buying homebuilders in 2003. They are all buying gold now.

[villain_the_foe]

They were all buying semiconductor stocks in 1999. They were all buying homebuilders in 2003. They are all buying gold now.

They "who" first of all, and secondly, just because they purchased something on the "way up" doesnt mean that they didnt get out before the dive. Im starting to think that your investment comment is alittle suspect. What do you take me for?

Because one is buying gold doesnt make it a top. People purchased it 10 years ago...when it was at THE BOTTOM. How many legs are in a bullmarket and which phase are we in? Thats a very relevant question.

Your quick statement didnt show me how we're in the 9th inning. Could you please school me?

[Plus One]

They "who" first of all, and secondly, just because they purchased something on the "way up" doesnt mean that they didnt get out before the dive. Im starting to think that your investment comment is alittle suspect. What do you take me for?

Because one is buying gold doesnt make it a top. People purchased it 10 years ago...when it was at THE BOTTOM. How many legs are in a bullmarket and which phase are we in? Thats a very relevant question.

Your quick statement didnt show me how we're in the 9th inning. Could you please school me?

LOL

No, I'll let you learn on your own.

I'm sure you're right.

[bitonti]

You dont know the difference between currency and money.

some cultures used conch shells and beads as money.

for most of history we have used currency and I guarantee you use currency every day.

the central piece of your argument seems to be that at some point dollars won't be accepted (they will be rejected) and it will be all about gold. Really? is this really gonna happen?

and yes I see the economy recovering. It always recovers. and then, many years from now, it will recede again. It's a matter of when not if.

you are interpreting fall/winter as the end of all life on earth. It's a season it's not the permanent state of things. In the spring there will be growth.

[villain_the_foe]

some cultures used conch shells and beads as money.

for most of history we have used currency and I guarantee you use currency every day.

the central piece of your argument seems to be that at some point dollars won't be accepted (they will be rejected) and it will be all about gold. Really? is this really gonna happen?

and yes I see the economy recovering. It always recovers. and then, many years from now, it will recede again. It's a matter of when not if.

you are interpreting fall/winter as the end of all life on earth. It's a season it's not the permanent state of things. In the spring there will be growth.

Im not interpreting seasons (cycles) to money because the primary purpose of money is "wealth stability" given its attributes. There is no cycle in money (in that fashion) because one of the characteristics of money (which currency doesnt have) is the ability to maintain wealth stability over long periods of time...and I think 6000 years proves that point. You cant say that for Conch Shells or beads because those were simply "mediums of exchange" nor are they around for Ben Bernanke to "deny" today. Why cant you fathom this? I can give someone a couch for a stereo system, that doesnt make the couch money.

Money can be used in trade as currency....thats one of many purposes. Fiat currency by its very definition isnt money. Whats the definition of fiat currency? Here you go: Fiat currency- backed by government decree without intrinsic value made solely for trade. Solely Bitonti. Please, understand that. It is simply a money substitute....an instrument not designed to maintain wealth as history has shown time and time again given that it has no "intrinsic value", but to allow for easier control of the currency supply by the ones who print it. And before you go off the deep end and respond with the "Then isnt Gold solely for trade too" the answer would be "no" its also a preserver of wealth over time (as previously stated). Why do you think Gold/Silver create and maintain family dynasties Bit? Its because you can pass it down from generation to generation and "maintain stable wealth" within your lineage no matter what fiat currency in use, no matter where in the world you are. Try passing your children paper and see what it'll buy them in 30 years.

Gold and Silver is money. Even God said it...Leviticus 27:25 "And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel". What is a shekel? Here's the definition of a shekel: A silver coin and unit of weight used in ancient Israel and the Middle East. What is a Gerah? Its a unit of weight. Money isnt "printed" it is dug up out of the ground and "minted".

Now you dont have to accept the truth....but your non acceptance doesnt change the fact.

[villain_the_foe]

LOL

No, I'll let you learn on your own.

I'm sure you're right.

Dont cop out. I dont mind reading your info, as long as you provide some. So far what I've presented has me looking right...but looks can be deceiving right? Present the actual facts.

[Boozer76]

What's far more likely to happen over time as the US dollar devalues and we go deeper and deeper into debt is eventually like minded states will start to band together and attempt to secede from the United States and form their own government and method of currency. Some cites/counties had some homegrown movements and did just that already. I think if things get really bad that's eventually going to be the result.

[bitonti]

Fiat currency by its very definition isnt money.

untrue. It's a type of money, as is commodity currency (gold coins). Gold bars is not strictly speaking a type of money. Again you are manipulating dictionary definitions. There is a definition of money and it exists. We can't just make words mean whatever we want them to mean.

Gold and Silver is money. Even God said it...Leviticus 27:25 "And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel". What is a shekel? Here's the definition of a shekel: A silver coin and unit of weight used in ancient Israel and the Middle East. What is a Gerah? Its a unit of weight. Money isnt "printed" it is dug up out of the ground and "minted".

Now you dont have to accept the truth....but your non acceptance doesnt change the fact.

things that were true 3000 years ago aren't necessarily true today. You say things like paper isn't money yet I guarantee you use paper money every single day. do you pay your electric bill in shekels?

[Plus One]

What's far more likely to happen over time as the US dollar devalues and we go deeper and deeper into debt is eventually like minded states will start to band together and attempt to secede from the United States and form their own government and method of currency. Some cites/counties had some homegrown movements and did just that already. I think if things get really bad that's eventually going to be the result.

That's actually not far fetched.

There is no federal law that says that the US Dollar has to be accepted as currency. That was done away with in 1965.

There is nothing barring states, regions, or other localities from introducing their own currency. Some areas of Michigan have started printing their own currency, which is accepted in local stores. Same with certain areas of the Berkshires in Mass and upstate NY...which accept "Berkshares" as currency.

[Plus One]

Dont cop out. I dont mind reading your info, as long as you provide some. So far what I've presented has me looking right...but looks can be deceiving right? Present the actual facts.

You've convinced me. I'm putting all my money in gold.

[THE ILK]

Gold, pffft!

[visajets]

Gold, pffft!

[THE ILK]

[visajets]

Whats so funny Mr. BrooklynJet? I bet those who sold gold months back for chump change feel like this.

[THE ILK]

Whats so funny Mr. BrooklynJet? I bet those who sold gold months back for chump change feel like this.

You don't get what I am laughing at.

[visajets]

You don't get what I am laughing at.

Is there a mirror close to your computer or are you naked.

[THE ILK]

Is there a mirror close to your computer or are you naked.

[visajets]

Size does matter.

[THE ILK]

Size does matter.

Yes, and gold is bigger.

[visajets]

Yes, and gold is bigger.

Depends if its a gold bar or a necklace. You once told me you like pearl necklaces instead of gold.

[THE ILK]

Depends if its a gold bar or a necklace. You once told me you like pearl necklaces instead of gold.

Only a fag like you, would be thinking of sizes like that in this thread.

Just Dump Thor already, and let T0m **** you!

[visajets]

Only a fag like you, would be thinking of sizes like that in this thread.

Just Dump Thor already, and let T0m **** you!

Im not a fag I already told you that. Is this all the material you got? GOB is watching be careful what you say.

[THE ILK]

Im not a fag I already told you that. Is this all the material you got? GOB is watching be careful what you say.

Then stop thinking about dick sizes!

G.O.B. is my all time favorite, behind Crusher, who will never ban me.

It would be an honor, to be banned by G.O.B.

[villain_the_foe]

You've convinced me. I'm putting all my money in gold.

Dont do that. You're an investor, you should be putting your currency into something based off the facts of a market, not because some dude on jetnation convinced you.

I'll be holding on to Gold and Silver until one of two things happen: Either the debt accumulated from the 80's and 90's are paid or we write it off and start over. Either one of those scenarios indicates to me that the majority of my savings souldnt be in US Currency.

[villain_the_foe]

untrue. It's a type of money, as is commodity currency (gold coins). Gold bars is not strictly speaking a type of money. Again you are manipulating dictionary definitions. There is a definition of money and it exists. We can't just make words mean whatever we want them to mean.

things that were true 3000 years ago aren't necessarily true today. You say things like paper isn't money yet I guarantee you use paper money every single day. do you pay your electric bill in shekels?

No, I pay my bills in currency, I save in money. Just to add another point that you threw out there. When it comes to shells and beans, like gold and silver (and unlike paper currency) they are all commodities....which is one attribute that makes money "money" (not saying that shells or beans are money, im just saying that they have one of the attributes that even currency doesnt have). Either way you slice it, currency doesnt fit the bill....but you can certainly pay a public bill with it.

I'm good with this convo, whatever you want to think money is is certainly your choice.

[bitonti]

I'm good with this convo, whatever you want to think money is is certainly your choice.

the fact that this thread is titled Gold $1600 an ounce means the US Dollar is very important to everyone's life. you are defining the value of gold using the value of US dollars. in fact, the gold market, the oil market, these things are operate world wide, and all in US dollars. If you start a thread Gold 1100 Euros and Ounce then it's maybe time to worry. Gold will never replace the dollar, but another paper currency could, in theory. IN practice even that is looking less and less likely.

[villain_the_foe]

the fact that this thread is titled Gold $1600 an ounce means the US Dollar is very important to everyone's life. you are defining the value of gold using the value of US dollars. in fact, the gold market, the oil market, these things are operate world wide, and all in US dollars. If you start a thread Gold 1100 Euros and Ounce then it's maybe time to worry. Gold will never replace the dollar, but another paper currency could, in theory. IN practice even that is looking less and less likely.

I've already explained to you why I have what I have in my sig. In a hyperinflationary situation if Gold is 5 billion dollars an ounce how important would it be? Just because the dollar is still relevant today doesnt mean that it will in the future. We all know this because all fiat currencies have failed right? Im just saying that the signs are there, and the only way for our dollar to survive is to have it pegged to Gold in order to give it stability, but to do that the price has to go much higher because there's too many dollars floating around the planet. You think all this QE and stimulus printing is a good thing? It destroying the very currency that we all see important in our life. I wont deny your point of view on that.

I understand where you're coming from with this statement. Im not saying that your premise is wrong in that regard. This IS the way that the world is run. In that respect you're absolutely correct. All im saying is that fiat money isnt real money because real money comes from the ground. Real money is minted. Real money preserves wealth. US dollars is money because we have a resource backing in and it isnt gold, its the armed military. If anyone wants to question that then I'd ask them why are we in Libya? I certainly know why. I wont get into that too deep because what I've learnt is that the truth isnt a patriotic thing to mention.

My bad, I didnt mean to dismiss the convo like that. I wasnt trying to be disrespectful, I just dont want to get to the point where I feel like im trying to convince you. Im just stating my point of view. I can totally see how you're right in respect to how the world is being ran, but it doesnt mean that the financial world is being ran properly/honestly.

They give us the paper, they keep the gold. Thats for a damn good reason. Im telling you, one day we're going to find out that Fort Knox doesnt have that gold....and then we'll see how valuable our dollar is. There's a wealth transfer to the East (asia) and its being engineered that way.

Some may disagree, but thats what the signs are showing right now.

You asked me a question before about my "sig". Im just throwing it out there because "if im right" people holding paper are going to be in a financial pain never seen before in this country. And when all these people in the futures market all attempt to get their money gold/silver out at the same time and they find out that the vaults cant deliver, everyone will find out whats real money. Great convo bit.

[bitonti]

let me first say i am not offended by your posts in any way I enjoy the friendly debate

let's talk further about the idea of money and money supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

there are billions upon billions of dollars that only exist on a computer screen. they call it M1, M2, M3 currency and it is different than the physical dollars that are printed. there are a huge number of physical dollars by the way, which is why printing a little bit more (relatively speaking) isn't such a big deal.

beyond the real dollars there are way more of these cyber dollars in the cyber world than in the real world. like 10x more. It's a nifty trick that exponentially grows the size of the economy and it's a huge limitation of the gold standard.

it's why we are never going back, by the way. Saying we need to go back to the gold standard is like saying we should go back to outhouses. Toilets are better than outhouses just like fiat currency is better than commodity currency. people have this romantized idea of life under the gold standard but it actually wasn't better. they had boom and busts every 10 or 20 years, it wasn't controllable. 1920 crash happened under the gold standard.

[villain_the_foe]

let me first say i am not offended by your posts in any way I enjoy the friendly debate

let's talk further about the idea of money and money supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

there are billions upon billions of dollars that only exist on a computer screen. they call it M1, M2, M3 currency and it is different than the physical dollars that are printed. there are a huge number of physical dollars by the way, which is why printing a little bit more (relatively speaking) isn't such a big deal.

beyond the real dollars there are way more of these cyber dollars in the cyber world than in the real world. like 10x more. It's a nifty trick that exponentially grows the size of the economy and it's a huge limitation of the gold standard.

it's why we are never going back, by the way. Saying we need to go back to the gold standard is like saying we should go back to outhouses. Toilets are better than outhouses just like fiat currency is better than commodity currency. people have this romantized idea of life under the gold standard but it actually wasn't better. they had boom and busts every 10 or 20 years, it wasn't controllable. 1920 crash happened under the gold standard.

You're partially right on the dollars that exist on computers, however, M3 is the entire money supply, not just digital...and if you noticed you havent been able to see the M3 report since 06' because the fed has discontinued that report given that they dont want the public to know how much money is really in circulation/existence. Whether the dollars are digital isnt the point because debt has been created through their very existence. Also, even if most of the money is digital, which it is, there are still debts that have derived off of those digital blips. Also, contracting the entire digital money supply would be almost as disastrous, but I'd prefer a deflationary event rather than a hyperinflationary event because in deflation there will still be food on the shelves and the dollar it self would be valuable because of its rarity. However, they cant deflate because we cant pay the interest on the debt, and they cant fund the massive govt, and they cant pay social security or health care etc. You called this a limitation to the gold standard? I call that a "lack of security of fiat currency". Downing gold in that fashion is like downing free markets (as we do...we call it "the black market"). That "lack of limitation" is exactly why we're in the situation that we're in right now. Question, has there ever been a time where govts have inflated their way to prosperity? Never.

As for your outhouse comment, I had to laugh at that one. We would never wage wars all over the world for outhouses, but we will for Gold and Oil. Fiat currencies are better than Gold and Silver only for the people who are in control of those currencies because they can simply steal the wealth from every dollar holder by inflating the currency. Its a hidden tax. If im in charge of the printing press and there's 10 dollars in existence...I have $5 and you have $5 and I wanted to steal the value of your $5 without physically robbing you all I have to do is print another $10 and keep it for myself. Now there's $20 in existence and itstead of you owning half the value of that currency...I now own 75% of the value because I own 75% of the paper and you were just jacked for half of your wealth instantly. Isnt that whats going on right now? What do you think the bailouts were?

You cant do that with Gold and Silver. This is the #1 reason why central banks dont like gold, because they cant rob the entire country of their gold and silver, but they can rob you of your wealth indirectly with a printing press. You're right, that is a toilet bowl and they're flushing the value of your currency down the toilet, and they're doing so strategically by not issuing the M3 anymore and holding down the price of gold (because its denominated in dollars)....but that ponzi scheme wont last forever, no fiat currency does.

How are we going to pay back these debts bit? We can talk about the monetary system but we cant dismiss the other end of that, the debt that has come about because of it. Do you think its just going to go away? This is like an unstoppable force (fiat) meeting an immovable object (debt). In a situation like that all of the financially sound people go to the "outhouse" lol.

The value of gold and silver has to cover the debts of the world. Its not there yet...better yet, ITS NO WHERE NEAR THAT YET lol. We wouldnt have these problems if we dealt with the "limitation" of having to work for our money instead of printing it and stealing it from the public. And in essence this is the public's fault. Yes, me and you. Because the U.S. still mints Gold and Silver because of the constitution....yet we stay with the "privately owned" Fed's paper money. So we get what we ask for. Im no longer asking for it anymore.

lastly, we had the crash of 1920 because we were dealing with money substitutes which is paper. Now I never said that a backed currency was the answer, but it is more stable. I'd personally rather have the Gold/Silver directly, however the crash in 21' was paper based..."stocks", not money based "Gold and Silver". If you had Gold and Silver you didnt feel a crash. If you were in the stock market you were PISSED! Also, you also noticed by 1921 that crash was over because the govt didnt jump in and regulate like it does today. The free market has always been able to fix itself. Thats not the case today, we have all the QE we need to keep the DOW at 12,000. How long do you think we can keep this up bit. Please, never mind my point of view on gold....just look at the scenarios that im presenting to you. Whether you like gold as money or not isnt the point, the point is that its the ultimate safe haven for whats happening globally now....so in that regard I dont see any limitations with Gold. And like Ron Paul said; Gold has been money for 6,000 years and he (nor I) have ever seen an economic law that changed that fact. We dont use it now because the bankers cant control it the way they do our precious "paper".

[Plus One]

Dont do that. You're an investor, you should be putting your currency into something based off the facts of a market, not because some dude on jetnation convinced you.

I'll be holding on to Gold and Silver until one of two things happen: Either the debt accumulated from the 80's and 90's are paid or we write it off and start over. Either one of those scenarios indicates to me that the majority of my savings souldnt be in US Currency.

Nah, obviously I'm not putting all my money in gold.

I actually just don't like to "talk" (or, type) about my investments. I find that when I start debating a position, I get too wrapped up in defending one side or another. A bad habit carried over from my days as a sell-side analyst. These days, I prefer to be a chameleon in terms of my investments. I like to be able to change my mind on a moment's notice, and not have to explain the change or look like I'm backtracking. Thus, my "I'd rather be rich than right" comment. I've met a lot of incredibly smart people who were "right", but went broke because the market remained irrational longer than they remained solvent.

I rely mainly on technicals these days. And, I'm in and out of things on a monthly, weekly - sometimes daily - basis. From a technical standpoint, gold is obviously very strong right now. Perhaps a bit overbought on a near-term basis, it might sell off a bit on the inevitable debt deal later this week. But the trend is your clearly your friend right now.

[villain_the_foe]

Nah, obviously I'm not putting all my money in gold.

I actually just don't like to "talk" (or, type) about my investments. I find that when I start debating a position, I get too wrapped up in defending one side or another. A bad habit carried over from my days as a sell-side analyst. These days, I prefer to be a chameleon in terms of my investments. I like to be able to change my mind on a moment's notice, and not have to explain the change or look like I'm backtracking. Thus, my "I'd rather be rich than right" comment. I've met a lot of incredibly smart people who were "right", but went broke because the market remained irrational longer than they remained solvent.

I rely mainly on technicals these days. And, I'm in and out of things on a monthly, weekly - sometimes daily - basis. From a technical standpoint, gold is obviously very strong right now. Perhaps a bit overbought on a near-term basis, it might sell off a bit on the inevitable debt deal later this week. But the trend is your clearly your friend right now.

Thats a great point. I think me and you have two different approaches to accumulating wealth. You sound like you have a long history of trading,...I dont. I dont like putting my capital at risk like that, especially when my point of view is that the markets are no longer "free". Its more like a casino where the house always win. With Gold/Silver I dont look at it as an investment for the most part. Sometimes I do get into convos and I say things that would lead to the thought that im looking at it as an investment given the people that I conversate with such as yourself. I mostly look at Gold and Silver as money, but its role as money is primarily wealth preservation.

I have however purchased my first few mining stocks after I was finally able to properly read and understand a company's prospectus. I guess thats a leverage play if you will given the overall undervalue of miners.

I do get you though, I dont mind one changing his or her mind about something. There will be a day where I sell all of my mining shares, however, there will never be a day where I sell all of my gold and silver. There will be a day where I cash a few in of course....but I've learned that to keep wealth in the family you must have Gold and Silver...period.

If you change your mind on something it has to be because the fundamentals of it changed. I can understand that.

I actually agree with this guy on the video here on the short term basis. Nothing goes straight up. And as you said, if after Aug. 2nd Gold and Silver plummet people will certainly call me out...though I've said atleast twice that its a possibility. But long term its pretty much baked in the cake. However, to also mention a very good fact, this week is options expiry for the Gold/Silver futures market and with Gold there are 22,000 outstanding contracts "in the money" and if they're not cashed out by tomorrow The Comex will have to deliver 22 million ounces of Gold. Where are they going to get that? Granted, the past few expiry's the Comex have settled in cash and GLD stocks....that wont change. However, thats still ALOT OF GOLD. As you can see, I simply think that the fundamentals are stronger for the price going up in the long run.

[Plus One]

.

[Jetlag]

For those in the know.

I took those a month ago on a road trip down to Miami.

[Green Jets & Ham]

My financial guy is telling me, has been for awhile, to snatch up Silver.

I snatch it up buy the boat load. Working as much over time as I can and I buy silver with the money.

[villain_the_foe]

For those in the know.

I took those a month ago on a road trip down to Miami.

Im in the know, via Edward G. Griffin's book/documentary "A creature on Jekyll Island".

Great pics.