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Just wondering.

The Jets will always put pressure on the Qb no matter what. They do not play any type of conventional defense which means the rush can be coming from any direction, which in turn causes the QB to hurry his throws. Teams also have to max protect vs the Jets. Getting a pure pass rusher for the money it would cost is not going to happen any time soon, Nor is it needed. Keep in mind even with no real pass rusher the Jets had 40 sacks last year due to scheme more than anything else. I would be willing to bet QB's felt like they were under more pressure vs the Jets that most teams who lead the league in sacks. Rex would much rather have a bunch of great defensive backs than one or 2 pass rushers its just the way his defense rolls. Sure it would be nice to see a bit more from Thomas and Pace but that might not happen until those guys are out of here. I would not be shocked to see Thomas gone soon and Westerman step in. When QB's play the Jets they know they MUST get rid of the ball fast which also limits how many sacks we get but still causes alot of problems for opposing offenses. Sacks can be a misleading stat the most important sacks and QB hurries come in the close games in the 4th quarter those are the stats that need to be checked.

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We will work in our unorthodox blitz schemes and Westerman will get added playing time

I appreciate that, I just wish we had someone that could get to the QB Like John Abraham used to do.... When healthy anyway.....

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The same players that rushed the passer last season and had the Jets a whole 8 sacks behind the league leading Steelers.

No matter how many times you say it, no one seems to get it through their thick heads. It's funny as hell.... people act like we were last in the league in sacks... LOL!

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The same players that rushed the passer last season and had the Jets a whole 8 sacks behind the league leading Steelers.

We had little pass rush from our down lineman. Most of our sacks came on gambling with blitzes, the rest were coverage sacks. There is definately a better way to get sacks and thats with a pass rush up front. When you've got the big guys chasing QB's, your chances of an interception or fumble recovery go up dramatically. Revis didn't have a single pick last year and the lack of pass rush had a lot to do with it.

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We had little pass rush from our down lineman. Most of our sacks came on gambling with blitzes, the rest were coverage sacks. There is definately a better way to get sacks and thats with a pass rush up front. When you've got the big guys chasing QB's, your chances of an interception or fumble recovery go up dramatically. Revis didn't have a single pick last year and the lack of pass rush had a lot to do with it.

Down lineman in the 3-4, typically dont get a ton of sacks. The gambling you speak of doesnt equate when the team leaders were our 3 OLB's...Thomas, Pace and Taylor (thats where the pressure comes from in the 3-4) OLB dont typically get coverage sacks, down lineman do. OLB typically blitz or rush the passer, which doesnt typically allow a play to develop long enough for a coverage sack.

Further, we had a lot of random sacks for DB's and ILB's...which means, yes, we were gambling but sending 1 DB and having an extra one in the game, really isnt a gamble and definitely isnt a coverage sack.

So what I'm saying is, its a myth that we dont create pressure and get sacks...we create plenty. Its why QB's struggle vs. the Jets. With exception to Henne and Brady, they both had 300yrd games against us....the only ones we allowed on the entire season. In fact, no other QB threw for over 250 vs. the Jets. You dont do that to QB's sitting back in coverage. You do it by disguising pressure...which apparently Rex does such a good job of that his own fans dont see it. ;)

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Down lineman in the 3-4, typically dont get a ton of sacks. The gambling you speak of doesnt equate when the team leaders were our 3 OLB's...Thomas, Pace and Taylor (thats where the pressure comes from in the 3-4) OLB dont typically get coverage sacks, down lineman do. OLB typically blitz or rush the passer, which doesnt typically allow a play to develop long enough for a coverage sack.

Further, we had a lot of random sacks for DB's and ILB's...which means, yes, we were gambling but sending 1 DB and having an extra one in the game, really isnt a gamble and definitely isnt a coverage sack.

So what I'm saying is, its a myth that we dont create pressure and get sacks...we create plenty. Its why QB's struggle vs. the Jets. With exception to Henne and Brady, they both had 300yrd games against us....the only ones we allowed on the entire season. In fact, no other QB threw for over 250 vs. the Jets. You dont do that to QB's sitting back in coverage. You do it by disguising pressure...which apparently Rex does such a good job of that his own fans dont see it. ;)

If you had on your roster four good defensive linemen and three good linebackers, would you continue to play a 3-4 defense?

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If you had on your roster four good defensive linemen and three good linebackers, would you continue to play a 3-4 defense?

Depends on the strenghts and the ability of the players. Its not that black and white. What do they excel in? Are they run stuffers? Pass rushers? Can they drop back in coverage? How big are the LB'ers? Can the LB'ers rush the passer?

Way to many variables to just give you a Yes or NO, answer. I'll say that when Mangini was here, we were trying to fit the square pegs into the round holes and would have preferred seeing more 4-3.

I personally dont have a preference and could see me going the Tomlin route, a Tampa 2 guy, letting the 3-4 stay put since it fits their roster better and their DC is pretty awesome.

Edited by JiF
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Down lineman in the 3-4, typically dont get a ton of sacks. The gambling you speak of doesnt equate when the team leaders were our 3 OLB's...Thomas, Pace and Taylor (thats where the pressure comes from in the 3-4) OLB dont typically get coverage sacks, down lineman do. OLB typically blitz or rush the passer, which doesnt typically allow a play to develop long enough for a coverage sack.

Further, we had a lot of random sacks for DB's and ILB's...which means, yes, we were gambling but sending 1 DB and having an extra one in the game, really isnt a gamble and definitely isnt a coverage sack.

So what I'm saying is, its a myth that we dont create pressure and get sacks...we create plenty. Its why QB's struggle vs. the Jets. With exception to Henne and Brady, they both had 300yrd games against us....the only ones we allowed on the entire season. In fact, no other QB threw for over 250 vs. the Jets. You dont do that to QB's sitting back in coverage. You do it by disguising pressure...which apparently Rex does such a good job of that his own fans dont see it. ;)

I would argue that Revis shutting down every #1 reciever he covered masked a lot of our ineffectiveness at pass rushing. I would also argue that it is exceptional coverage that gave QB's fits last year, and not Bryan Thomas, Pace or Taylor. We played coverage all the way against both the Pats and Colts and were successful in blanketing their recievers. The pass rush was only effective after several seconds after the snap. We haven't had a force on the edge since Abraham, really. And Abraham got sacks, forced fumbles and caused bad throws. That kind of pass-rush is huge whether from an OLB or a DL. We can get by without it, but a good edge rusher or pocket collapser is an enormous boost to the defense. And this is why Vernon Gholston will burn in hell for all eternity.

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Depends on the strenghts and the ability of the players. Its not that black and white. What do they excel in? Are they run stuffers? Pass rushers? Can they drop back in coverage? How big are the LB'ers? Can the LB'ers rush the passer?

Way to many variables to just give you a Yes or NO, answer. I'll say that when Mangini was here, we were trying to fit the square pegs into the round holes and would have preferred seeing more 4-3.

I personally dont have a preference and could see me going the Tomlin route, a Tampa 2 guy, letting the 3-4 stay put since it fits their roster better and their DC is pretty awesome.

That's kind of my point.

Bring a pass rusher in here, Umenyiora or someone else, and allow our defensive mastermind of a coach to use him to the best of his abilities.

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The same players that rushed the passer last season and had the Jets a whole 8 sacks behind the league leading Steelers.

The Jets get pressure, no doubt.

The idea though, is to get as much pressure with the least amount of rushers as possible.

The Jets attack the QB in numbers, with sometimes as many as 7 or 8 guys. That increases "big play" risk, and w've seen that over the past 2 years.

If they could get an OLB who could command the attention that 2 DBs would, we'd have the same rush, but with more guys in coverage.

In 2007, the Giants were able to generate a tremendous pass rush with 4 or 5 guys, which allowed them to drop 6 or 7 in coverage at the same time.

Tough to hit big plays on a consistent level when a team can play defense like that.

I know it's a different defense, but conceptually it's the same, whether you're playing a 43, 34, or what the Jets do which is a hybrid. Every DC tries to generate pass rush with as little numbers as possible because that gives you the best of both worlds, rush and maximized coverage.

The idea is not for the Jets to get a pass rush, they've been able to do that.

It's to do it with less people.

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I would argue that Revis shutting down every #1 reciever he covered masked a lot of our ineffectiveness at pass rushing. I would also argue that it is exceptional coverage that gave QB's fits last year, and not Bryan Thomas, Pace or Taylor. We played coverage all the way against both the Pats and Colts and were successful in blanketing their recievers. The pass rush was only effective after several seconds after the snap. We haven't had a force on the edge since Abraham, really. And Abraham got sacks, forced fumbles and caused bad throws. That kind of pass-rush is huge whether from an OLB or a DL. We can get by without it, but a good edge rusher or pocket collapser is an enormous boost to the defense. And this is why Vernon Gholston will burn in hell for all eternity.

Yes, we dont have a true, natural pass rusher. I wont argue that...but people act like dont get pressure and I'm sorry, thats just false. We certainly do...its just not consistently from one player, which is kind of Rex's thing, right? Disguising the pressure, have it come from every where and any where.

And though we did drop back into coverage a lot vs. Brady and Manning...we were bringing pressure. Brady was under pressure all game.

The Revis theory is interesting...the Raiders were 3rd in the league for sacks...and they have Aso doing something similar just on one side. Maybe you're right there and thats why Rex value CB's so much...but either way, the Jets create plenty of pressure. I'm confident if you asked QB's around the league about teams who come after ya, many would say the Jets.

That's kind of my point.

Bring a pass rusher in here, Umenyiora or someone else, and allow our defensive mastermind of a coach to use him to the best of his abilities.

What if his abilities dont fit though?

And I think the fact the Rex hasnt put a premium on pass rushers here, means he doesnt think its necessary. IMO - the youth movement up front will help the pass rush too. They create the lanes.

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What if his abilities dont fit though?

And I think the fact the Rex hasnt put a premium on pass rushers here, means he doesnt think its necessary. IMO - the youth movement up front will help the pass rush too. They create the lanes.

You're right, they don't have the player but I don't think it's that he hasn't put a premium on it ... he has. It was supposed to be Calvin Pace.

Unfortunately, he hasn't been that player, so Ryan being the great defensive coach he is, improvises with the DBs.

Remember, he did have the great pass rusher in Baltimore.

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The Jets get pressure, no doubt.

The idea though, is to get as much pressure with the least amount of rushers as possible.

The Jets attack the QB in numbers, with sometimes as many as 7 or 8 guys. That increases "big play" risk, and w've seen that over the past 2 years.

If they could get an OLB who could command the attention that 2 DBs would, we'd have the same rush, but with more guys in coverage.

In 2007, the Giants were able to generate a tremendous pass rush with 4 or 5 guys, which allowed them to drop 6 or 7 in coverage at the same time.

Tough to hit big plays on a consistent level when a team can play defense like that.

I know it's a different defense, but conceptually it's the same, whether you're playing a 43, 34, or what the Jets do which is a hybrid. Every DC tries to generate pass rush with as little numbers as possible because that gives you the best of both worlds, rush and maximized coverage.

The idea is not for the Jets to get a pass rush, they've been able to do that.

It's to do it with less people.

Sure...makes total sense and like I said in my previous post...I'm not even going to argue that we have a true natural pass rusher...we dont.

The only problem I have with your take here, is that the Steelers and Green Bay who have beastly pass rushers...still deploy similar blitz schemes as the Jets. They overload and send a bunch, letting their best guys come free and use zones while sending extra pass rushers.

So even teams that do have serious pass rushing threats (Matthews, Harrison) they still send numbers to actually get to the Qb and hurry the pass. Its not like Rex runs that different of a defense here as he did in Balt with Suggs. My point is, even with a beastly pass rusher...or defense isnt going to drastically change.

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You're right, they don't have the player but I don't think it's that he hasn't put a premium on it ... he has. It was supposed to be Calvin Pace.

Unfortunately, he hasn't been that player, so Ryan being the great defensive coach he is, improvises with the DBs.

Remember, he did have the great pass rusher in Baltimore.

We're literally one step ahaed of each other here. ;)

Pace wasnt Rex's pick up. So I'm assuming you're say he thinks he has that type of a player in Pace...even after 2 years of coaching him?

And see my previous post, he had Suggs in Balt...and the defense isnt that much different.

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