Sperm Edwards Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yeah but haven't you at least noticed that far more money than ever before has been guaranteed in this contracts? Also, not for nothing, but David Harris is 3 years younger than Asomugha. No. Look, I like Tannenbaum and I like Harris. But the truth is the Jets decided to wait a year too late to lock up Harris. It forced them into a franchise tag for $10M guaranteed and nothing after that. This only doubles down on that by paying Harris some $2M per year more than Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. It's not as though Harris has a value is $5M and he got $9M. But this is now the 2nd time in 3 years we've made a merely very good player the highest-paid ILB in NFL history. In between them being signed, both Willis and Lewis signed lesser deals ($/season). I was able to rationalize it better with Scott because he was Ryan's man and a totally new system was being installed that Scott knew cold. This is gross overpayment. Harris may be 3 years younger than Asomugha but there is no comparing the two. You think someone else would have offered David Harris $60M with $25M guaranteed? They would have looked at Willis's contract - a player voted first team all-pro 3x and 4 pro bowls in 4 NFL seasons. Harris was once a pro bowl alternate over that same span. You do not pay the latter significantly more per season than the former. You just don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Maybe the Jets are taking care of a player who didnt bitch, and though may not be patrick Willis, he's arguably a top 5 MLB. ARGUABLY Ed, dont kill me for the comment lol. They paid him far more than the guy who is (not-arguably) the #1 best ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hey! Don't you know that Mike Tannenbaum is a genius? I like Tannenbaum plenty. There isn't another GM in the league I can think of that I'd rather have. That does not mean the guy is always right. This is one of those where the only way he's right is if Harris suddenly becomes a better player than he's ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 They paid him far more than the guy who is (not-arguably) the #1 best ILB. He signed a contract after Willis. You know how inflation is brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 No. Look, I like Tannenbaum and I like Harris. But the truth is the Jets decided to wait a year too late to lock up Harris. It forced them into a franchise tag for $10M guaranteed and nothing after that. This only doubles down on that by paying Harris some $2M per year more than Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. It's not as though Harris has a value is $5M and he got $9M. But this is now the 2nd time in 3 years we've made a merely very good player the highest-paid ILB in NFL history. In between them being signed, both Willis and Lewis signed lesser deals ($/season). I was able to rationalize it better with Scott because he was Ryan's man and a totally new system was being installed that Scott knew cold. This is gross overpayment. Harris may be 3 years younger than Asomugha but there is no comparing the two. You think someone else would have offered David Harris $60M with $25M guaranteed? They would have looked at Willis's contract - a player voted first team all-pro 3x and 4 pro bowls in 4 NFL seasons. Harris was once a pro bowl alternate over that same span. You do not pay the latter significantly more per season than the former. You just don't. I'm not saying I disagree with anything you say here, but the Jets couldn't (unfortunately) extend him last year due to the 30% uncapped rules last year so give them a pass on not locking him up sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 He signed a contract after Willis. You know how inflation is brother Willis signed after Bart Scott. And there isn't 20% inflation. And even still it would only be 20% inflation if Harris was just as good as Willis, which he is not. Harris is a very good player. He is not "holy f***ing crap did you see that?!?" incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Willis signed after Bart Scott. And there isn't 20% inflation. And even still it would only be 20% inflation if Harris was just as good as Willis, which he is not. Harris is a very good player. He is not "holy f***ing crap did you see that?!?" incredible. The person representing Willis should be fired after this Harris contract, unless Willis wanted a team friendly deal to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Who would u rather have run your franchise, Tanny or you. Ummmm...me? I have just as many rings as Tanny, and I'm better looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'm not saying I disagree with anything you say here, but the Jets couldn't (unfortunately) extend him last year due to the 30% uncapped rules last year so give them a pass on not locking him up sooner. True. But sometimes you just let that one go. You keep him for this year at $10M if he won't take a deal in the $7M-7.5M range and then let him try to get $9M/year on the open market a year later. $4M this year means it's $32M over the final 3 and that doesn't include some phony-baloney 4th year he'll never see: since this is a relatively short contract (4 years) with over 80% guaranteed so it might as well be 100% guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 True. But sometimes you just let that one go. You keep him for this year at $10M if he won't take a deal in the $7M-7.5M range and then let him try to get $9M/year on the open market a year later. Can we really afford to play that game, Sperm? There aren't exactly a lot of solid, cheaper ILB's around we could replace Harris with. I'd rather overpay Harris than lose him. If we didn't lock him up after promising we would we'd possibly be looking at a disgruntled player/holdout situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 True. But sometimes you just let that one go. You keep him for this year at $10M if he won't take a deal in the $7M-7.5M range and then let him try to get $9M/year on the open market a year later. $4M this year means it's $32M over the final 3 and that doesn't include some phony-baloney 4th year he'll never see: since this is a relatively short contract (4 years) with over 80% guaranteed so it might as well be 100% guaranteed. With the 6.4 million in savings for 2011 the Jets will make 1 more big splash, and that's what this deal is about being all in for 2011, and praying the 2014 cap projections are true. The splash? I don't know and I don't think the Jets do either I think they are waiting for the big time salary cap casualties that will happen Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 With the 6.4 million in savings for 2011 the Jets will make 1 more big splash, and that's what this deal is about being all in for 2011, and praying the 2014 cap projections are true. The splash? I don't know and I don't think the Jets do either I think they are waiting for the big time salary cap casualties that will happen Thursday. I agree with this, and it may very well be the agent smelled the jets depseration to ge this done today, and squeezed them for a big number in exchange for a low 2011 cap number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 In what universe is David Harris worth 20% more money than Patrick Willis? Depends on what you're looking for. In this defense Harris is definitely worth more. There isn't an ILB in the league better against the pass or blitzing, including Willis, and considering how weak we are on the edges, integral can't even begin to describe how important he is. He may not be the best against the run, but Scott more than makes up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Seriously? I love David Harris but uh... he's not exactly intimidating.... team leader and whatnot, ok.... good against the run, yes... not worth this $$$ AT ALL. 'ninja'd! He's NOT good against the run? FML. Thought he was... I dunno... he's very, very quiet on the field and gets a lot of tackles without you really noticing it. Just figured he was busy stuffing the run. NOW GO GET BRAY-BRAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 NOW GO GET BRAY-BRAY! Not happening.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Not happening.... We got 6.4 M + whatever else we had left! DO IT! We need him! Failing that, I will take a tight end or a safety to go plz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Most insane deal I could ever imagine. I have no idea what the Jets are thinking unless the parameters of this deal were set last season and they are literally paying him for last year making this essentially a 5/37 deal. Thats the only way this even remotely makes sense unless the Jets are just out to make crazy headlines with contracts. This is definitely the only team in the world to have this kind of money tied up in ILBs and CBS, while paying low costs up front. I also have no idea what the reasoning is behind frontloading these deals. Maybe the Jets are going to bring back Braylon or get involved in a trade for someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 We got 6.4 M + whatever else we had left! DO IT! We need him! Failing that, I will take a tight end or a safety to go plz. Unless we trade Cotchery, there's just no room for Braylon anymore. How many receivers do you want to carry on the roster? Aren't we supposed to be a running team? I agree on the TE and safety comment. The fact that Pool and Ihedigbo are still unsigned (unless I'm mistaken) AND the fact that we went after Heap tells me those are still moves waiting to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 If he hits 100% of his incentives every single year for 7 years, Patrick Willis gets $53.5M. Same guaranteed money, less per season AND that locks him up through 2017. In what universe is David Harris worth 20% more money than Patrick Willis? Was he re-uped before his rookie contract was up? Does that matter in negotiations? And I thought he signed like 50 for 5 year with a lot of that guaranteed. Seriously asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 With the 6.4 million in savings for 2011 the Jets will make 1 more big splash, and that's what this deal is about being all in for 2011, and praying the 2014 cap projections are true. The splash? I don't know and I don't think the Jets do either I think they are waiting for the big time salary cap casualties that will happen Thursday. Agreed. Another addition or two coming. The real question is how many players have contracts that are guaranteed through 2014? In other words, what is the current number of dollars that the Jets are committed to for each of the next 3 years? I would think Tanny structures the payroll with some "fluff" built into each year, so that he can do alot of what he did this year (i.e. cuts, restructures, etc...) every year to get the Jets under the respective cap for that year. The guy has been the best in the business managing the cap for over 10 years now, with a propensity for being able to sign guys every year. That, coupled with the fact that each year usually brings an increase in the salary cap, gives me a good feeling about what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 In the NFL that means he'll make it through this year and probably next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I also have no idea what the reasoning is behind frontloading these deals. The only thing I can think is that they're playing to their strengths. They've been on the look for an elite OLB for years now between contracts and picks and have failed miserably. The majority of the pressure in this version of Rex' D has developed into a scheme that relies on inside-centered points of pressure due to this, and you can't say that it hasn't worked. Harris has really become the best in the business in that regard. I have to believe the next move this team is trying for is at safety to back up the ILB tandem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The only thing I can think is that they're playing to their strengths. They've been on the look for an elite OLB for years now between contracts and picks and have failed miserably. The majority of the pressure in this version of Rex' D has developed into a scheme that relies on inside-centered points of pressure due to this, and you can't say that it hasn't worked. Harris has really become the best in the business in that regard. I have to believe the next move this team is trying for is at safety to back up the ILB tandem. Eric Smith put on 15lbs of muscle during the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain_the_foe Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Willis signed after Bart Scott. And there isn't 20% inflation. And even still it would only be 20% inflation if Harris was just as good as Willis, which he is not. Harris is a very good player. He is not "holy f***ing crap did you see that?!?" incredible. It was a joke dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Can we really afford to play that game, Sperm? There aren't exactly a lot of solid, cheaper ILB's around we could replace Harris with. I'd rather overpay Harris than lose him. If we didn't lock him up after promising we would we'd possibly be looking at a disgruntled player/holdout situation. Its not really playing the game, its just basic negotiating, especially since the Jets have exclusive rights. You have to go out and at least make it seem like you have other options. Ill even buy into the 4/36 buy how can you guarantee 80% of the contract when nobody else in the market is even near that number or that percentage. This deal will make every LB in the NFL thrilled and drive 31 teams in the NFL insane the same way they did when making the Revis rookie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa2k99 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 This makes my night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 This makes my night! I never understood why Dolphin fans post on a Jets website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.Chowds Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Most insane deal I could ever imagine. I have no idea what the Jets are thinking unless the parameters of this deal were set last season and they are literally paying him for last year making this essentially a 5/37 deal. Thats the only way this even remotely makes sense unless the Jets are just out to make crazy headlines with contracts. This is definitely the only team in the world to have this kind of money tied up in ILBs and CBS, while paying low costs up front. I also have no idea what the reasoning is behind frontloading these deals. Maybe the Jets are going to bring back Braylon or get involved in a trade for someone. I was going to hold off judgment on this deal on until Jason gave his opinion. Now I am worried sound like the Jet are getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENSMACKS Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I never understood why Dolphin fans post on a Jets website. love him as a player but was 29.5 mill guaranteed really necessary? i'm sure they couldve gotten the deal done for half that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The only thing I can think is that they're playing to their strengths. They've been on the look for an elite OLB for years now between contracts and picks and have failed miserably. The majority of the pressure in this version of Rex' D has developed into a scheme that relies on inside-centered points of pressure due to this, and you can't say that it hasn't worked. Harris has really become the best in the business in that regard. I have to believe the next move this team is trying for is at safety to back up the ILB tandem. Harris' best asset is the fact that he covers runners very well on short routes. Hes no better than average once he is asked to cover anyone beyond a few yards down the field. I do think Harris can rush the passer as can Bart Scott, but I dont really see either of them as being guys that are hitting the QB. Much like 2008 the QBs have significant time against the Jets defenses to pass the football. According to PFF the Jets ILBs accounted for 4 sacks, 17 hits, and 20 pressures. The total for the team was 49/48/153. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarylandJetsFan Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Harris would get 9 mm on the open market. You guys have no idea how highly regarded he is around the league. Before Harris was drafted our run defense was sh*t.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPExchange.com Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 More than anything this deal was done to create some cap space for this coming season. I don't know what the next move will be but I feel there is something left up their sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Harris would get 9 mm on the open market. You guys have no idea how highly regarded he is around the league. Before Harris was drafted our run defense was sh*t.... Thanks for setting us straight. I'm afraid we just got carriesd away for a minute. I mean, having watched every down he has lined up for as a professional player and all, we clearly don't know what we're talking about. I'm glad we have smart folks like you to pull us back in off the ledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think the answer to the frontloading is a simple one....Pay them for their best years up front, and since this is the NFL when they're cut or traded they'll have earned their highest salary. That's my thinking anyway...could be wrong. I'm not a fan of having 2 highly paid ILBs, but what's to be done now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I just hope he stays healthy...good to have him locked up IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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