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Black Monday


villain_the_foe

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Call it paranoid all you like. All I know is that when I figured out how not to contract with the government I've been winning ever since. sh*t, If I was what you call "paranoid" back when I was 19 I'd be a paranoid millionaire by now.

You call me paranoid, I say you're sleeping with your eyes open.

Im glad that you have no problem paying taxes, I do. Im glad you have no problem with them inflating your money supply, I dont either because when they dilute your money, my money goes up. Im glad you have no problem contributing to the country the way "they" see fit...im a capitalist, I take responsibility for me and mine, and I'll contribute my money the way "I" see fit, not some third party. As for getting sick, I changed my habits once I was able to re-educate myself. I buy only organic food. I stopped eating mc donald's I purchased a juicer in order to take in my vegetable/fruit nutrients. I deal in holistic medicine etc. I dont worry about getting sick because I take care of my self now. And I bet that if I ever do need to go to the doctor If I put gold in some doctors hand I bet he'll take it.

I take care of me and mine. I dont need government and insurance companies baby sitting me. Im a grown man with my own set of balls. I dont have a drivers license so I dont drive. But I can afford to be driven so I get to where I have to go comfortably.

And as for me feeling "silly", thats just wishful hate on your part. I understand the difference between paper money/income and Gold/Silver/Purchasing power/property/wealth. Im maintaining and adding to my purchasing power. You're dealing in monopoly money thats continuously getting debased. That sounds pretty silly to me.

The fact is that you are benefiting from public goods supplied by the government simply by living here. You benefit from our national security, infrastructure, public health, etc. By not paying taxes, you are breaking the law. If you truly don't want to contract with a government, move to someplace with no government. I think you will find yourself missing government goods and services very quickly.

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If i kept my money under my bed it would lose value due to inflation but who the hell does that? An S&P 500 index fund will outperform inflation.

If you enjoy a life when you're living on the outside of civilization, not driving and living off the land like you're saying more power too you. I wouldn't want that life. Also all the organic food in the world won't pay your medical bills if you're in a car accident or something else unforeseen happens to you. It's a risky way to go through life.

Based on what fundamentals? Dont just say it, explain it. As for my standard of living, Im simply rolling with the punches here. Im adjusting to life after this reality bubble pops and im expecting to make a profit from it.

You think debt can just keep going up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and its not going to have repercussions.

Trust me, im not here to change your mind. Im just here stating my opinion. And your opinion is that im paranoid. I'll accept that for what it is. :)

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Based on what fundamentals? Dont just say it, explain it. As for my standard of living, Im simply rolling with the punches here. Im adjusting to life after this reality bubble pops and im expecting to make a profit from it.

You think debt can just keep going up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and up and its not going to have repercussions.

Trust me, im not here to change your mind. Im just here stating my opinion. And your opinion is that im paranoid. I'll accept that for what it is. :)

The fact that capital has value and entities are willing to pay for the use of it. That's how a capital market works. If you provide capital you get paid for the risk you're taking on.

I don't want the debt to go up forever and I'm very much for dealing with the real drivers of our debt which are, like i said before, health care costs. That being said I don't see any proof that we're in the middle of a REAL debt crisis right now.

It sounds like you don't have a great standard of living to me though I don't mean to judge. Wouldn't you rather not have to worry about getting arrested for tax evasion and not having you worry about going broke from health care bills?

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The fact is that you are benefiting from public goods supplied by the government simply by living here. You benefit from our national security, infrastructure, public health, etc. By not paying taxes, you are breaking the law. If you truly don't want to contract with a government, move to someplace with no government. I think you will find yourself missing government goods and services very quickly.

Well, I wasnt born on another planet. Unfortunately you dont understand tax law either. Government cant impede on private contract so Im not avoiding taxation because I never filled out a W-2 nor has my company been made public by incorporating it because its NOT A COMPANY. Maybe you should read your constitution and see where and how private contracts come into play before you tell me that im breaking the law. And please, before you decide to simply respond to this comment just to defend yourself I will say again....Educate yourself and read your own constitution before telling me that im breaking the law.

As for moving to some place where there's no government, im not an anarchist so stop assuming. I never once said that I want no government, that'll be ridiculous given that I believe in God and he's laid down 750 laws statutes and commandments to obey. You on the other hand would rather obey the over 2 million laws that your government puts on you.

There's a difference between not liking that the government is out of control and protecting yourself from it, and being an anarchist. Read your own constitution that your land was based on and check your governments actions before you check mine. I dont impede on you, your govt impedes on you every day by breaking the "law of the land".

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The fact that capital has value and entities are willing to pay for the use of it. That's how a capital market works. If you provide capital you get paid for the risk you're taking on.

I don't want the debt to go up forever and I'm very much for dealing with the real drivers of our debt which are, like i said before, health care costs. That being said I don't see any proof that we're in the middle of a REAL debt crisis right now.

It sounds like you don't have a great standard of living to me though I don't mean to judge. Wouldn't you rather not have to worry about getting arrested for tax evasion and not having you worry about going broke from health care bills?

"Risk" implies being exposed to some type of danger. In otherwords, you can lose that investment as well.

THATS how markets work. lol. Im speaking to a rookie. im good with this convo dude. I spoke my peace already.

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Well, I wasnt born on another planet. Unfortunately you dont understand tax law either. Government cant impede on private contract so Im not avoiding taxation because I never filled out a W-2 nor has my company been made public by incorporating it. Maybe you should read your constitution and see where and how private contracts come into play before you tell me that im breaking the law.

As for moving to some place where there's no government, im not an anarchist so stop assuming. I never once said that I want no government, that'll be ridiculous given that I believe in God and he's laid down 750 laws statutes and commandments to obey. You on the other hand would rather obey the over 2 million laws that your government puts on you.

There's a difference between not liking that the government is out of control and protecting yourself from it and being an anarchist. Read your own constitution that your land was based on and check your governments actions before you check mine. I dont impede on you, your govt impedes on your every day with nonsense.

Even if you're not a w2 worker you still owe Self employment, state taxes depending on where you live and income taxes.

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"Risk" implies being exposed to some type of danger. In otherwords, you can lose that investment as well.

THATS how markets work. lol. Im speaking to a rookie. im good with this convo dude. I spoke my peace already.

Of course you can lose it. But that's why you balance your portfolio to manage those risks. This isn't magic.

OK good talking. I hope this works out for you. Def not for me.

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Even if you're not a w2 worker you still owe Self employment, state taxes depending on where you live and income taxes.

Show me a document that states that government can impede on private contracts and I'll show you the constitution showing that they're breaking the law.

I tell you, public school really did a dozy on all of us.

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Of course you can lose it. But that's why you balance your portfolio to manage those risks. This isn't magic.

OK good talking. I hope this works out for you. Def not for me.

Balancing your porfolio isnt what you said, You said the S&P 500 index, which is "risk" capital. That can go to Zero.

You know how I balance my portfolio? Gold.......and...........Silver. Neither one has EVER gone to zero and has always maintained its purchasing power relative to other tangible commodities. You can have the market. lol.

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Show me a document that states that government can impede on private contracts and I'll show you the constitution showing that they're breaking the law.

I tell you, public school really did a dozy on all of us.

People yell that on the way to jail all the time.

And if the S&P 500 goes to zero I'll have much bigger problems than losing money. I'll take my chances.

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Well, I wasnt born on another planet. Unfortunately you dont understand tax law either. Government cant impede on private contract so Im not avoiding taxation because I never filled out a W-2 nor has my company been made public by incorporating it because its NOT A COMPANY. Maybe you should read your constitution and see where and how private contracts come into play before you tell me that im breaking the law. And please, before you decide to simply respond to this comment just to defend yourself I will say again....Educate yourself and read your own constitution before telling me that im breaking the law.

As for moving to some place where there's no government, im not an anarchist so stop assuming. I never once said that I want no government, that'll be ridiculous given that I believe in God and he's laid down 750 laws statutes and commandments to obey. You on the other hand would rather obey the over 2 million laws that your government puts on you.

There's a difference between not liking that the government is out of control and protecting yourself from it, and being an anarchist. Read your own constitution that your land was based on and check your governments actions before you check mine. I dont impede on you, your govt impedes on you every day by breaking the "law of the land".

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

AMENDMENT XVI

Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913.

Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Sounds pretty simple to me. What am I not understanding?

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven#Examples

Some of those sound like nice places.

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http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

Sounds pretty simple to me. What am I not understanding?

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven#Examples

Some of those sound like nice places.

Do you REALLY want to know what you're not understanding? I'll tell you. First you have to understand what income is and how they can be derived. The reason why I dont fall into this category is for 3 reasons.

One.

The Contract Clause appears in the United States Constitution, Article I, section 10, clause 1. It states:

“ No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. ”

The Contract Clause prohibits states from enacting ANY LAW that retroactively impairs contract rights. The Contract Clause applies only to state legislation, not court decisions.

The Framers of the Constitution added this clause in response to the fear that states would continue a practice that had been widespread under the Articles of Confederation—that of granting "private relief." Legislatures would pass bills relieving particular persons (predictably, influential persons) of their obligation to pay their debts. It was this phenomenon that also prompted the framers to make bankruptcy law the province of the federal government.

My (and your) ability to enter into private contract without government impeding is an unalienable right, as stated in our constitution that you should google and read one day, especially before you claim that someone is breaking the law. You should atleast know the law first.

Two.

Income means that profit was made. I dont have an income because I dont own/run/work for a company. I enter into private contract and I provide a service in which trade is commenced and given the "law" govenrment cannot impede on private contract, and with that I cannot take that person to court to settle the contract because the contract is PRIVATE. (which yet again shows how "full liability" is at work here...in case MadMike is reading this)

3. Im not in the public sector in which government oversees nor have I contracted with them personally by issuing a social security number etc in my private contracts making govt the 3rd entity in the contract which gives them authority to "collect taxes from whatever source derived". ITS PRIVATE! lol.

Also since you want to talk about ACTUAL laws being broken. Govt is only supposed to have gold and silver as legal tender but I dont see you getting all emotional over that law being broken. You're sitting here defending the action.

Lastly, I dont mind continuing this convo with you but if it gets too political we'll have to in private messages. Max has been cool this summer allowing us to talk about the economy which is closely tied to govt and politics. I dont want this thread to graduate to a govt/politcal convo and Max or another mod closes the thread.

I'd like to hear your response, but I think we're both taking it outside of the original topic. I'll try to keep it about the markets.

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People yell that on the way to jail all the time.

And if the S&P 500 goes to zero I'll have much bigger problems than losing money. I'll take my chances.

Doesnt make it right though now does it? That statement in itself shows me how and why this government has gotten out of control. People are shook to keep it in order. "people yell that all the way to jail" only implies to me that you care not about the law, but the fact that your government threatens you with jail. Well, given that the majority of us went to government funded public school, no wonder why we're shook and cant defend ourselves. I on the other hand have taken it upon myself to learn whats really happening and how to protect myself. So like I said, you can talk about people yelling all the way to jail, but im here aint I?

Show me an example of a person being thrown in jail for dealing in a private contract and I'll show you 1 of 2 things. Either that person didnt know how to defend themselves and their right to enter in private contract, or that person wasnt dealing in a personal contract.

And knock yourself out with the S&P. And dont jump out a window when they jack you.

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And you want to "kick" 9.1% unemployment and a dead economy down the road. Growth is the only answer and it will create the revenue to pay off the debt.

I'm mostly on the right side of the political spectrum. And you hear this a lot form Sean Hannity, Larry Kudlow and their ilk.Will grant you growth is a good thing.But you have to be realistic.Simply we cannot grow ourselves out of this.

In the 1950s the US averaged a little over 5% annaulized GDP growth, some years close to 7%. Keep in mind though that a time when much of the rest of the world's industrial capacity in Asia and Europe was still nonexistent or being rebuilt; America had the field practically to itself. Even under optimal conditions like that, 5% growth was about as good as it gets. There are no such conditions today nor in the forseebale future.

Simple fact is expecting much more that 4% annual GDP growth is pushing it.Currently looks like we'll be lucky to see 2 or 3% over the next 2 years. And adminsitrations of both parties have been pushing that rosy projection up forever when they send their budgets to CBO for evaluation(recall that CBO typically works with the variables they are given; though Obama has failed to submit a budget since February). They could just as easily and justifiably put "AND THEN A MIRACLE HAPPENS" as projecting 5% or better GDPO growth.To pretend we can grow out way out of this mess is idiocy. Simple fact is government in every way imaginable has to be cut, curtailed and downsized. It does too much, it does a lot of it badly, it does all of it expensively and it does many of things it shouldn't do at all. Again,we can either make these needed cuts now wisely and judicously to soften the blow. Or we can do them in a panic after another dose of stupid pills and find ourselves in Weimar Germany.

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I'm mostly on the right side of the political spectrum. And you hear this a lot form Sean Hannity, Larry Kudlow and their ilk.Will grant you growth is a good thing.But you have to be realistic.Simply we cannot grow ourselves out of this.

In the 1950s the US averaged a little over 5% annaulized GDP growth, some years close to 7%. Keep in mind though that a time when much of the rest of the world's industrial capacity in Asia and Europe was still nonexistent or being rebuilt; America had the field practically to itself. Even under optimal conditions like that, 5% growth was about as good as it gets. There are no such conditions today nor in the forseebale future.

Simple fact is expecting much more that 4% annual GDP growth is pushing it.Currently looks like we'll be lucky to see 2 or 3% over the next 2 years. And adminsitrations of both parties have been pushing that rosy projection up forever when they send their budgets to CBO for evaluation(recall that CBO typically works with the variables they are given; though Obama has failed to submit a budget since February). They could just as easily and justifiably put "AND THEN A MIRACLE HAPPENS" as projecting 5% or better GDPO growth.To pretend we can grow out way out of this mess is idiocy. Simple fact is government in every way imaginable has to be cut, curtailed and downsized. It does too much, it does a lot of it badly, it does all of it expensively and it does many of things it shouldn't do at all. Again,we can either make these needed cuts now wisely and judicously to soften the blow. Or we can do them in a panic after another dose of stupid pills and find ourselves in Weimar Germany.

You're making broad general statements that just aren't true. 4% GDP growth would do a great deal to fix the problem. So would doing something about the unemployment rate which is whats behind our fiscal problems right now. The problem is that the government right now is doing things that are going to SHRINK GDP and raise unemployment like making superficial short term cuts that do nothing about our real debt problem (health care costs.) Government spending in the near term has proven multiplier effects that would grow GDP and decrease unemployment. For example, one of the main drivers of unemployment in the recent months is states laying off millions of public sector workers to deal with budget shortfalls. If the federal government borrowed money at the laughably low rate they can right now and bailed out the states with shortfalls that would lower unemployment and bring back a multiplier effect by increasing demand. It's common sense.

I would argue that the government doesn't do enough and that things that it does are inefficient because it bends over backwards to the private sector. Tax rates are hilariously low. The lowest they have been in over 50 years. SSI is solvent for 50 years and is one of the great american success stories of our time. Medicare's overhead costs (even with all the fraud) is still substantially lower than private health insurance companies. The reason for Medicare's long run problems have nothing to do with the program itself but with health care costs in general. It's a symptom not a cause.

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I had some time so I started looking back over all the information I could. Maybe there will be a short term drop from the retail investors, but I think most of them already sold out yesterday. The smart money already factored in the downgrade and sold off before then, notably by Wednesday at the latest, and now if you look at P/C ratio/volume throughout Friday you'd notice a bullish trend. I actually expect a big rally starting Monday, perhaps by the middle of the day.

I don't think this was the real crash, which I project happening in October at some time.

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Do you REALLY want to know what you're not understanding? I'll tell you. First you have to understand what income is and how they can be derived. The reason why I dont fall into this category is for 3 reasons.

One.

The Contract Clause appears in the United States Constitution, Article I, section 10, clause 1. It states:

“ No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. ”

The Contract Clause prohibits states from enacting ANY LAW that retroactively impairs contract rights. The Contract Clause applies only to state legislation, not court decisions.

The Framers of the Constitution added this clause in response to the fear that states would continue a practice that had been widespread under the Articles of Confederation—that of granting "private relief." Legislatures would pass bills relieving particular persons (predictably, influential persons) of their obligation to pay their debts. It was this phenomenon that also prompted the framers to make bankruptcy law the province of the federal government.

My (and your) ability to enter into private contract without government impeding is an unalienable right, as stated in our constitution that you should google and read one day, especially before you claim that someone is breaking the law. You should atleast know the law first.

Two.

Income means that profit was made. I dont have an income because I dont own/run/work for a company. I enter into private contract and I provide a service in which trade is commenced and given the "law" govenrment cannot impede on private contract, and with that I cannot take that person to court to settle the contract because the contract is PRIVATE. (which yet again shows how "full liability" is at work here...in case MadMike is reading this)

3. Im not in the public sector in which government oversees nor have I contracted with them personally by issuing a social security number etc in my private contracts making govt the 3rd entity in the contract which gives them authority to "collect taxes from whatever source derived". ITS PRIVATE! lol.

Also since you want to talk about ACTUAL laws being broken. Govt is only supposed to have gold and silver as legal tender but I dont see you getting all emotional over that law being broken. You're sitting here defending the action.

Lastly, I dont mind continuing this convo with you but if it gets too political we'll have to in private messages. Max has been cool this summer allowing us to talk about the economy which is closely tied to govt and politics. I dont want this thread to graduate to a govt/politcal convo and Max or another mod closes the thread.

I'd like to hear your response, but I think we're both taking it outside of the original topic. I'll try to keep it about the markets.

I could see using that to avoid State taxes (even that is iffy), but the federal government is not a "State" (note the capital "S").

The Amendments are part of the Constitution and the 16th Amendment clearly states that the federal government can tax income derived from any source. When you exchange a good or service for money, that is income.

I have respect for your convictions, but I still think you are breaking the law. As to whether or not your actions are ethical (which matters more to me), I am not sure. It would seem to me that you are part of a Social Contract and are not holding up your end, but I don't know your exact circumstances. I respect your position despite disagreeing with you.

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Exactly my point. Peter Schiff, Bob Chapman, George Gordon, Bill Murphy and a few others have been screaming this for damn near a decade. I wish I would have come around these guys back then.

I seen an old report where Schiff was practically laughed off of a show and 2 years later what he said was going to happen came to pass.

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I could see using that to avoid State taxes (even that is iffy), but the federal government is not a "State" (note the capital "S").

The Amendments are part of the Constitution and the 16th Amendment clearly states that the federal government can tax income derived from any source. When you exchange a good or service for money, that is income.

I have respect for your convictions, but I still think you are breaking the law. As to whether or not your actions are ethical (which matters more to me), I am not sure. It would seem to me that you are part of a Social Contract and are not holding up your end, but I don't know your exact circumstances. I respect your position despite disagreeing with you.

You bring up a good point, however, there's two things I need to say to this. #1. Federal contracts are not "private" contracts (though they'd like you to believe so at times), and to prove that is rather simple. "The major difference is that federal government contracts are governed by statutes and regulations". Our statues and regulations are public by nature. So how can they tax a private contract thats not governed by public statutes/regulations but by the agreement of the contract itself? #2, the federal government has EVERY RIGHT to tax "income". Im not denying that, however, I dont have income. I have private contractual agreements to exchange my time and labor for money. Thats not income my friend, thats trade.

Im not saying that the 16th amendment doesnt clearly state what it states. Im saying that what im doing is private and isnt governed by public statues and/or regulations.

I appreciate you respecting my point of view though we're at odds about the topic overall.

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You bring up a good point, however, there's two things I need to say to this. #1. Federal contracts are not "private" contracts (though they'd like you to believe so at times), and to prove that is rather simple. "The major difference is that federal government contracts are governed by statutes and regulations". Our statues and regulations are public by nature. So how can they tax a private contract thats not governed by public statutes/regulations but by the agreement of the contract itself? #2, the federal government has EVERY RIGHT to tax "income". Im not denying that, however, I dont have income. I have private contractual agreements to exchange my time and labor for money. Thats not income my friend, thats trade.

Im not saying that the 16th amendment doesnt clearly state what it states. Im saying that what im doing is private and isnt governed by public statues and/or regulations.

I appreciate you respecting my point of view though we're at odds about the topic overall.

The government views that as earned income and it's taxable as ordinary income. Do you ever leave the state you work in and go to another state to work? If you do the government can regulate you for sure and in your state the state government can regulate you. This is beyond the 16th amendment.

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You bring up a good point, however, there's two things I need to say to this. #1. Federal contracts are not "private" contracts (though they'd like you to believe so at times), and to prove that is rather simple. "The major difference is that federal government contracts are governed by statutes and regulations". Our statues and regulations are public by nature. So how can they tax a private contract thats not governed by public statutes/regulations but by the agreement of the contract itself? #2, the federal government has EVERY RIGHT to tax "income". Im not denying that, however, I dont have income. I have private contractual agreements to exchange my time and labor for money. Thats not income my friend, thats trade.

Im not saying that the 16th amendment doesnt clearly state what it states. Im saying that what im doing is private and isnt governed by public statues and/or regulations.

I appreciate you respecting my point of view though we're at odds about the topic overall.

Dude, what you're doing is tax evasion. I'm not a big fan of taxes but don't just pretend you're doing something that everyone else is just choosing not to do. Heck I'm all for not paying taxes. Timmy doesn't pay his taxes and look where it got him.

Just realize if you get caught they'll come down harder on you than they did Timmy. Good luck and I hope you keep evading the tax man. It's not like GE and the big corps pay taxes anyway, they should probably go after those guys first.

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Dude, what you're doing is tax evasion. I'm not a big fan of taxes but don't just pretend you're doing something that everyone else is just choosing not to do. Heck I'm all for not paying taxes. Timmy doesn't pay his taxes and look where it got him.

Just realize if you get caught they'll come down harder on you than they did Timmy. Good luck and I hope you keep evading the tax man. It's not like GE and the big corps pay taxes anyway, they should probably go after those guys first.

If only Villain had as many lobbyists as GE does then he would really get away with it.

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The government views that as earned income and it's taxable as ordinary income. Do you ever leave the state you work in and go to another state to work? If you do the government can regulate you for sure and in your state the state government can regulate you. This is beyond the 16th amendment.

I dont have income. I dont know how many times I have to say that. And no, I havent crossed state lines in any of my private contracts.

Again, I dont have income. You guys must understand what income means, and why I continuously state that I DONT HAVE INCOME.

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I dont have income. I dont know how many times I have to say that. And no, I havent crossed state lines in any of my private contracts.

Again, I dont have income. You guys must understand what income means, and why I continuously state that I DONT HAVE INCOME.

What is Earned Income?

Earned income includes all the taxable income and wages you get from working.

There are two ways to get earned income:

You work for someone who pays you

or

You work in a business you own.

Any barter you get in return for services is also 100% taxable.

If you're gonna keep doing it fine but you should at least be realistic about the fact that you're breaking the law.

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Dude, what you're doing is tax evasion. I'm not a big fan of taxes but don't just pretend you're doing something that everyone else is just choosing not to do. Heck I'm all for not paying taxes. Timmy doesn't pay his taxes and look where it got him.

Just realize if you get caught they'll come down harder on you than they did Timmy. Good luck and I hope you keep evading the tax man. It's not like GE and the big corps pay taxes anyway, they should probably go after those guys first.

Im not evading taxes because I havent entered in a contract with government to pay taxes since I no longer work in the public sector where I was filling out tax forms.

I understand why this is so hard for people to understand, but if you want to take your country back you guys really need to start doing your homework because the more I see people comment on this one subject alone, the more I see why these people have so much control over you.

Thanks for the luck though, and I understand where you're coming from. I totally understand that im rocking the boat, but trust me, its not because what im doing is illegal, its because what Im doing they want to keep "unpopular". Its kinda like how they demonize the freemarkets by calling it the "black market".

Anything that doesnt go through govt is bad for govt because they dont have regulation over it. And if they dont regulate it then they must make it seem like its bad for you. I know better than that. I dont mind being fully liable for my self. Thats all im doing here which is my GOD GIVEN RIGHT. And I'll be ******* damned if I given that up willingly.

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Any barter you get in return for services is also 100% taxable.

If you're gonna keep doing it fine but you should at least be realistic about the fact that you're breaking the law.

Arguing with you is futile. Understand the law for yourself mike and stop being so shook of what govt will do to you. Also, they can only tax public legal tender. If I deal in private bullion what is there to tax? Like I said, you need to understand the law for yourself. www.georgegordon.com is a start.

Question, (think about this question before you answer)...are you a communist?

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Arguing with you is futile. Understand the law for yourself mike and stop being so shook of what govt will do to you.

Question, (think about this question before you answer)...are you a communist?

I'm a CPA so I know a little about taxes and tax law. You're just not being realistic about what you're doing and it could come back to really hurt you if you're caught.

I'm not a communist because I don't believe in collective ownership of all assets and resources nor am I a socialist who believes in a command economic system. I believe in a well regulated capitalistic system. So no I'm not a communist

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Arguing with you is futile. Understand the law for yourself mike and stop being so shook of what govt will do to you. Also, they can only tax public legal tender. If I deal in private bullion what is there to tax? Like I said, you need to understand the law for yourself. www.georgegordon.com is a start.

Question, (think about this question before you answer)...are you a communist?

Hey guys we have been lenient with the politics thing but please don't forget the no-politics rule. It is in place for a reason.

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I'm a CPA so I know a little about taxes and tax law. You're just not being realistic about what you're doing and it could come back to really hurt you if you're caught.

I'm not a communist because I don't believe in collective ownership of all assets and resources nor am I a socialist who believes in a command economic system. I believe in a well regulated capitalistic system. So no I'm not a communist

I'll PM YOu.

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Hey guys we have been lenient with the politics thing but please don't forget the no-politics rule. It is in place for a reason.

Max if you read the thread it's been very cordial and interesting. I don't mind him asking if I'm a communist haha. It's not really about politics anyway it's become about Villian's lifestyle.

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