Dow Jones Drops Below 11,000!

[Jetlag]

alex jones ? that clown is the bastard love child of rush, fatsessa and icke. you know, if that could happen.

I rarely listen to him although I hold him much higher than any of those others psycho's but this interview happens to make me laugh every time I listen to it. He's in true form " WE GOT A RED SHIELD ON THE LINE! WE'RE NOT YOUR SLAVES ROTHSCHILD!"

[bitonti]

Im glad that you know that #1 the cat is dead and #2 it reached its bounce height of 4 stories.

Thats a start bit.

DJA

the Monday morning opening was 11221 or thereabouts (it lost like 200 points from Friday's close of 11453)

this thread was started

the Tuesday afternoon close was 11239.77

these are the numbers I did not make em up.

there was alot of drama in between these numbers, to be sure, but that's what makes it exciting.

[Jetlag]

there was alot of drama in between these numbers, to be sure, but that's what makes it exciting.

Exciting and drama are not words that should used when dealing with your life shavings.

[villain_the_foe]

DJA

the Monday morning opening was 11221 or thereabouts (it lost like 200 points from Friday's close of 11453)

this thread was started

the Tuesday afternoon close was 11239.77

these are the numbers I did not make em up.

there was alot of drama in between these numbers, to be sure, but that's what makes it exciting.

Exciting and drama are not words that should used when dealing with your life shavings.

What Jetlag said. lol.

[villain_the_foe]

DJA

the Monday morning opening was 11221 or thereabouts (it lost like 200 points from Friday's close of 11453)

this thread was started

the Tuesday afternoon close was 11239.77

these are the numbers I did not make em up.

there was alot of drama in between these numbers, to be sure, but that's what makes it exciting.

edit

[serphnx]

Only two days left to close up on the week, doesn't look like the market will make it. All it takes is 2 consecutive days of gains though to reverse the entire momentum.

[Jack Straw]

DOW closed up at 10,729. Can we keep this thread open, Bitonti?

[villain_the_foe]

DOW closed up at 10,729. Can we keep this thread open, Bitonti?

Dude, I wasnt on today but I did hear about the drop. Im about to quote bit to ask if thats okay to leave the thread open! lmao.

[villain_the_foe]

when the dow finishes above 11,000 today I expect a very long thread talking about how great everything is. Get on it.

DOW 10719.94-519.83 (-4.62%)

I guess we can keep the thread open now right Bit? Im actually surprised, I was expecting to see some quotes from you when I got home from a long days work....but nothing. Sup bro? lol.

Whats going on with the market sir? I can answer that. The DOW had its 9th largest one day drop in history today....and this is right after the DOW having is 6tth largest one day drop in its history a couple days prior. Starting to look like 2008 all over again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_daily_changes_in_the_Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average

What I can also tell you is that Gold is that its at an all time high of $1,800. Gold is continuing its 11 year run of the market isnt it?

[serphnx]

I wonder what holdings bit has, it would be very interesting to hear his trading strategy and results the past couple of weeks.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Thats what happens when you artificially prop up a market. It can come back to reality pretty fast.

We were what as low as 1030 in S&P 500 in July of last year, if memory serves me right. And we went all the way upto 1360 in April of this year. So an approx 35% increase all in less than a year. Based on what ?

Thats why when reality hits its going to be pretty quick.

P.S: I do not follow the Dow so sorry for a S&P 500 reference in a DOW thread.

[villain_the_foe]

I wonder what holdings bit has, it would be very interesting to hear his trading strategy and results the past couple of weeks.

I dont think bit has money in the markets just by the things that he's said regarding the market. One of his last statements he made was in respect to the rise and fall of the markets was "the markets are exciting". I dont know anyone who would want to gamble with their savings in a highly volatile market and call that volatility "exciting".

I could be wrong, and if I am I'd love to know what is gains/losses are roughly.

[villain_the_foe]

Thats what happens when you artificially prop up a market. It can come back to reality pretty fast.

We were what as low as 1030 in S&P 500 in July of last year, if memory serves me right. And we went all the way upto 1360 in April of this year. So an approx 35% increase all in less than a year. Based on what ?

Thats why when reality hits its going to be pretty quick.

P.S: I do not follow the Dow so sorry for a S&P 500 reference in a DOW thread.

My point exactly. Thanks Denver.

What Bitonti has along with everyone else who defends the market is a bad case of normalcy bias.

We are so used to the markets bouncing back and going through its cycles and so forth. In a sense I can see their logic in respect to us so called "doomers" when we say that "this time its different", though it really is.

What we are witnessing is a "World of FIRSTS" (that I know of).

#1. How many times has the U.S. debt been downgraded? This is a first.

#2. How many times has the U.S. been over GDP with their debt load? This is a first. (It came close in WWII but they were able to pay down the debt)

#3. How many times has the "World Bank" bailed out the ENTIRE world financial system? This is a first. (The entire global financial system in juiced up on QE)

#4. How many times has Gold been $1,800 an oz denominated in a world reserve currency? This is a first.

#5. How many times has Treasury Bonds gone "negative" on their yields? This is a first. (if the bond market collapses, IT ALL COLLAPSES...banks, everything)

#6. When has the FED kept interest rates at 0% for 3 years straight? This is a first.

#7. How many times has the U.S. had its housing market implode? This is a first.

#8. How many times has the majority of wealth in the U.S. been held 5% of its population? This is a first.

#9. How many times has the U.S. built up debt of $14,500,000,000,000? This is a first. (The 14.5 Trillion is the "official numbers" and I think we all know that the actual numbers are always bigger than the official numbers given).

So for the people out here thinking that this is nothing more than a bump in the road and we're going to bounce back, my advice is that you "think again".

Check this, In 2008 the financial system had a meltdown SO BAD that to keep it from burning to the ground we had to pull out all the stops and....

#1. bankrupt the country with bailouts.

#2. Quantitative Easing

#3. Introduced a "Free money" policy.

#4. 0% interest rates

#5. Buy up corporations like GM.

#6. Buy up toxic assets from companies like AIG and Lehman Bros.

#7. Have the printing press on overdrive.

All this^^^^^ happened based on the first set of examples I gave you. How in the world are people who follow the market still oblivious to the major problem in the market I will never know. Let them trust their money to the market....I'll pass.

The Dow has lost 15% off of its peak high this year, though one can argue that the same thing has happened with Silver with its from from $50 an oz. The difference is that you have corporations taking naked short positions to control the price of silver, while we have the govt flushing money into the market to keep it afloat (The Plunge Protection Team).

So in retrospect, the drop in silver imo is nothing more than a buying opportunity.

[Jack Straw]

Nice analysis, Villain. As a side note, anyone who thinks gold is in a bubble doesn't know anything about economics. We might see some pullbacks, but $3,000/oz is a realistic target in the next 18 months, in my opinion. Heck, if things get really bad, it could go even higher than that. Gold isn't inflated -- the DOW Jones has been inflated and now we're seeing its rightful, long overdue correction. The price of gold is simply a reflection of reality and the weakness of the overprinted US dollar. It's easy to say gold is in a "bubble" when you don't know what you're talking about -- you see its price sky rocketing and just give a knee-jerk reaction that sounds cute.

I've been recommending gold and precious metals for the past year or two to my family and friends, knowing this phoney economy would be buckling at some point in late 2011/early 2012. So far, my prediction has been pretty solid. I'll keep buying gold and precious metals and investing in emerging markets -- you "gold is in a bubble" folks can continue gambling with US equities while I laugh to the bank and protect the little wealth I have.

[serphnx]

Thats what happens when you artificially prop up a market. It can come back to reality pretty fast.

We were what as low as 1030 in S&P 500 in July of last year, if memory serves me right. And we went all the way upto 1360 in April of this year. So an approx 35% increase all in less than a year. Based on what ?

Uh, based on record profits? The $1.5T in cash assets the big corporations are sitting on?

Just because Main St. is struggling doesn't mean US companies aren't at all time highs. Big players like KO get most of their profits overseas anyway. Outside of very limited exceptions, the US companies generally lead "emerging" markets since the barriers to entry are generally high for the big US companies.

And the swings are great for full time traders. The only people the swings mess with are the fools with their 401Ks and the buy and hold types. But those people never make money to begin with and they can just ride this out. If you buy now and just wait 3 weeks you are going to have huge gains and won't need to trade the rest of the year. I bought, sold, shorted and closed out positions all day on Tuesday before going long yesterday for good. I'm back at work and won't worry about this for weeks, until I close out for good on the year, or at least until I'm sick of working a regular job. I only work maybe 6 months a year at most at a regular job so I can avoid the retarded self employment taxes and quarterly reporting requirements.

[CrazyCarl40]

I'm pretty certain the stock market is going to yo-yo for a while.

[bitonti]

I guess we can keep the thread open now right Bit? Im actually surprised, I was expecting to see some quotes from you when I got home from a long days work....but nothing. Sup bro? lol.

sorry i was working. The market is up today I guess it's my turn to boast?

it's called volitility

and by the way this is why equities are better than any other form of investment

for example

I buy a stock on Monday afternoon trading at 10 dollars (it was 15 on Friday and I think it's a low). I sell it on Tuesday when it goes up to $14. I buy it again on Wednesday when it's at $11. I sell it to day when it's at $13.50.

I made money, twice. That's a simple equity argument I can also make options bet on the stock going up or down and make (or lose) way more.

what did you do? Watch the gold ticker go up from $1740 to $1800 and you sold nothing. That's the difference between investing and collecting.

over time the stock market always outperforms everything. Bonds, Gold, Silver, Real Estate, Art... everything you can think of. There's more money to be made in the market than anywhere else. One day you'll wake up and Gold will be $1400 again and still you won't sell. That's not investing.. it's wealth preservation, at best. Which is fine but you aren't really making money. why not just fill a room up with it and take a swim like scrooge mcduck? It's not useful to be a gold hoarder.

ps- the American taxpayer MADE money on the Bailout.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Uh, based on record profits? The $1.5T in cash assets the big corporations are sitting on?

Just because Main St. is struggling doesn't mean US companies aren't at all time highs. Big players like KO get most of their profits overseas anyway. Outside of very limited exceptions, the US companies generally lead "emerging" markets since the barriers to entry are generally high for the big US companies.

Did they accumulate those reserves since April 2010 ?

And the swings are great for full time traders. The only people the swings mess with are the fools with their 401Ks and the buy and hold types. But those people never make money to begin with and they can just ride this out. If you buy now and just wait 3 weeks you are going to have huge gains and won't need to trade the rest of the year. I bought, sold, shorted and closed out positions all day on Tuesday before going long yesterday for good. I'm back at work and won't worry about this for weeks, until I close out for good on the year, or at least until I'm sick of working a regular job. I only work maybe 6 months a year at most at a regular job so I can avoid the retarded self employment taxes and quarterly reporting requirements.

I am sure volatile markets are great for the remaining traders. But not investors as you point out.

And as far as day trading in concerned i remember reading somewhere that right now 80% of trading volume comes from HFT's. And while they quote stuff the humans to oblivion there might be a few people left to might care to trade going forward.

[JetsFanInDenver]

My point exactly. Thanks Denver.

What Bitonti has along with everyone else who defends the market is a bad case of normalcy bias.

We are so used to the markets bouncing back and going through its cycles and so forth. In a sense I can see their logic in respect to us so called "doomers" when we say that "this time its different", though it really is.

What we are witnessing is a "World of FIRSTS" (that I know of).

#1. How many times has the U.S. debt been downgraded? This is a first.

#2. How many times has the U.S. been over GDP with their debt load? This is a first. (It came close in WWII but they were able to pay down the debt)

#3. How many times has the "World Bank" bailed out the ENTIRE world financial system? This is a first. (The entire global financial system in juiced up on QE)

#4. How many times has Gold been $1,800 an oz denominated in a world reserve currency? This is a first.

#5. How many times has Treasury Bonds gone "negative" on their yields? This is a first. (if the bond market collapses, IT ALL COLLAPSES...banks, everything)

#6. When has the FED kept interest rates at 0% for 3 years straight? This is a first.

#7. How many times has the U.S. had its housing market implode? This is a first.

#8. How many times has the majority of wealth in the U.S. been held 5% of its population? This is a first.

#9. How many times has the U.S. built up debt of $14,500,000,000,000? This is a first. (The 14.5 Trillion is the "official numbers" and I think we all know that the actual numbers are always bigger than the official numbers given).

So for the people out here thinking that this is nothing more than a bump in the road and we're going to bounce back, my advice is that you "think again".

Check this, In 2008 the financial system had a meltdown SO BAD that to keep it from burning to the ground we had to pull out all the stops and....

#1. bankrupt the country with bailouts.

#2. Quantitative Easing

#3. Introduced a "Free money" policy.

#4. 0% interest rates

#5. Buy up corporations like GM.

#6. Buy up toxic assets from companies like AIG and Lehman Bros.

#7. Have the printing press on overdrive.

All this^^^^^ happened based on the first set of examples I gave you. How in the world are people who follow the market still oblivious to the major problem in the market I will never know. Let them trust their money to the market....I'll pass.

The Dow has lost 15% off of its peak high this year, though one can argue that the same thing has happened with Silver with its from from $50 an oz. The difference is that you have corporations taking naked short positions to control the price of silver, while we have the govt flushing money into the market to keep it afloat (The Plunge Protection Team).

So in retrospect, the drop in silver imo is nothing more than a buying opportunity.

Some good points.

AT the end of the day this is the biggest scam that was pulled in the history of this planet all under the blessing of governments. And this scam was pulled off by Wall Street and while no one from Wall Street has gone to jail the people will keep paying for the implicit and explicit bailouts even today and will do so for generations to come.

If anyone thinks they are not paying for it today just check out the price of gas or the prices in the food aisle at you local grocery store.

[Jack Straw]

sorry i was working. The market is up today I guess it's my turn to boast?

it's called volitility

and by the way this is why equities are better than any other form of investment

for example

I buy a stock on Monday afternoon trading at 10 dollars (it was 15 on Friday and I think it's a low). I sell it on Tuesday when it goes up to $14. I buy it again on Wednesday when it's at $11. I sell it to day when it's at $13.50.

I made money, twice. That's a simple equity argument I can also make options bet on the stock going up or down and make (or lose) way more.

what did you do? Watch the gold ticker go up from $1740 to $1800 and you sold nothing. That's the difference between investing and collecting.

over time the stock market always outperforms everything. Bonds, Gold, Silver, Real Estate, Art... everything you can think of. There's more money to be made in the market than anywhere else. One day you'll wake up and Gold will be $1400 again and still you won't sell. That's not investing.. it's wealth preservation, at best. Which is fine but you aren't really making money. why not just fill a room up with it and take a swim like scrooge mcduck? It's not useful to be a gold hoarder.

ps- the American taxpayer MADE money on the Bailout.

You are so confused. What about the person who bought at $14 and sold at $10? Then, at $10 decided to short the stock only to watch it rise up to $14 again? Come on man, you can't be serious with your example.

[JetsFanInDenver]

sorry i was working. The market is up today I guess it's my turn to boast?

it's called volitility

and by the way this is why equities are better than any other form of investment

for example

I buy a stock on Monday afternoon trading at 10 dollars (it was 15 on Friday and I think it's a low). I sell it on Tuesday when it goes up to $14. I buy it again on Wednesday when it's at $11. I sell it to day when it's at $13.50.

I made money, twice. That's a simple equity argument I can also make options bet on the stock going up or down and make (or lose) way more.

what did you do? Watch the gold ticker go up from $1740 to $1800 and you sold nothing. That's the difference between investing and collecting.

over time the stock market always outperforms everything. Bonds, Gold, Silver, Real Estate, Art... everything you can think of. There's more money to be made in the market than anywhere else. One day you'll wake up and Gold will be $1400 again and still you won't sell. That's not investing.. it's wealth preservation, at best. Which is fine but you aren't really making money. why not just fill a room up with it and take a swim like scrooge mcduck? It's not useful to be a gold hoarder.

ps- the American taxpayer MADE money on the Bailout.

That's like saying honest politician. Oxymoron ?

Whenever volatility goes up its sign of unstable markets and unstable markets usually go down!

Enjoy your profits as you get them. Because things can easily go the other way round!

Can you be more specific how the taxpayer made money on the bailouts. Really there was money to be made on the bailouts. If that was the case why did it not attract private capital. Because private capital like to make money too!

[villain_the_foe]

sorry i was working. The market is up today I guess it's my turn to boast?

it's called volitility

and by the way this is why equities are better than any other form of investment

for example

I buy a stock on Monday afternoon trading at 10 dollars (it was 15 on Friday and I think it's a low). I sell it on Tuesday when it goes up to $14. I buy it again on Wednesday when it's at $11. I sell it to day when it's at $13.50.

I made money, twice. That's a simple equity argument I can also make options bet on the stock going up or down and make (or lose) way more.

what did you do? Watch the gold ticker go up from $1740 to $1800 and you sold nothing. That's the difference between investing and collecting.

over time the stock market always outperforms everything. Bonds, Gold, Silver, Real Estate, Art... everything you can think of. There's more money to be made in the market than anywhere else. One day you'll wake up and Gold will be $1400 again and still you won't sell. That's not investing.. it's wealth preservation, at best. Which is fine but you aren't really making money. why not just fill a room up with it and take a swim like scrooge mcduck? It's not useful to be a gold hoarder.

ps- the American taxpayer MADE money on the Bailout.

No bit, it isnt your time to boast. the market is down almost 2,000 points overall. There's nothing for you to boast about. You know little about investing, and nothing in wealth preservation. Your mindset is based on income, Im based on property. Those stocks you buy are not private property so they dont interest me. My gold and Silver is mine, no one owns it because its in my possession with no third party risk/attachment. You dont fathom the concept because you dont understand the significance of owning your property, opposite of simply being in possession of something but not having ownership. This is why every bit of profit you THINK you make the IRS makes more off of you.

You talk about me watching the gold ticker go to $1,800 yet I sold nothing. You damn right I sold nothing. Why when the price is going higher. You buy in and sell out of the market and everytime you do that you have to pay a portion to the IRS right? Well, my private transactions are just that so no one HAS TO KNOW what I do with my bullion/coins. You're being jacked and dont even know it. Im adding to my position by simply buying and holding because the mess that we're in isnt over yet. Trust me, today im a collector, tomorrow I will be a collector of houses and farmland while you're still playing in the market giving up your profit to the boys that were jacking you in the first place. You were calling me a "collector" at $1,600 and if I would have listened to you and not my gut I would have missed out on a move to $1,800. And if I listen to you right now I'll be missing the big correction in the price coming (which is a buying opportunity) and from there to $2,000-$2,500. That collector comment is rather stupid. Do you have a life savings? Do you have a 401K? Do you pay into Social Security? The difference is I take care of myself, I dont need the government ponzi scheme program to secure my future. So call me a collector...that fits rather well. When the price of Gold is at $5,000 I will still be a collector, and you'll still be losing your profit in the market jumping in and out and having the IRS absorb your profit. Good for you! I'd rather not have to do all that and put my time into more important things, knowing that My gold and silver is working for me 24 hours a day.

And your method of guesstimating volatility is just unbelievable, but not as unbelievable as the U.S. taxpayer making money on the bailout. You my friend are a victim of your own circumstance. lol.

[bitonti]

When the price of Gold is at $5,000 I will still be a collector, and you'll still be losing your profit in the market jumping in and out and having the IRS absorb your profit.

if you never sell you aren't taking profit.

your gold isn't working for you. It's just sitting there, being all shiny.

considering it's valued in a currency you have no faith in, the price of it shouldn't matter to you... or anyone else.

[villain_the_foe]

if you never sell you aren't taking profit.

your gold isn't working for you. It's just sitting there, being all shiny.

considering it's valued in a currency you have no faith in, the price of it shouldn't matter to you... or anyone else.

Dude, it'll work for me when I use it. Im not "cashing" out...i'll be using the gold directly.

What part of that statement do you not understand?

[bitonti]

Can you be more specific how the taxpayer made money on the bailouts. Really there was money to be made on the bailouts. If that was the case why did it not attract private capital. Because private capital like to make money too!

the gov't bought toxic assets and preferred stocks at a low. they sold these things when the market recovered. Look it up, it's absolutely true that TARP made money. Don't take my word for it (like they said on Reading Rainbow)

People confuse the stimulus with the bailouts, it's true that the stimulus was a give-away... but then again if the gov't builds a road it technically makes no money off that new road... But there's a new road nonetheless. there are external benefits to the economy by building infrastructure.

[bitonti]

Dude, it'll work for me when I use it. Im not "cashing" out...i'll be using the gold directly.

What part of that statement do you not understand?

I dont understand, how are you gonna use it?

are you going to sell them for US dollars? and then take a silkwood shower for how dirty you feel?

or is it when society is all broken down and people are wearing loin cloths, you'll use the gold then?

I don't get how you are gonna use it in this grand plan.

Me and my dollars I'm going down to the grocery store. Maybe I'll by some cheese from Italy. And then I'll eat it.

Your gold is sitting in the safe.

[Jack Straw]

I dont understand, how are you gonna use it?

are you going to sell them for US dollars? and then take a silkwood shower for how dirty you feel?

or is it when society is all broken down and people are wearing loin cloths, you'll use the gold then?

I don't get how you are gonna use it in this grand plan.

Me and my dollars I'm going down to the grocery store. Maybe I'll by some cheese from Italy. And then I'll eat it.

Your gold is sitting in the safe.

What do you not understand about gold being a medium of exchange? People have been using gold as currency for 6,000 years - it seems that you and Ben Bernanke are the only people who don't understand this. Gold is easily divisble (ie you break it down into smaller parts), so you could trade gold for whatever it is you want, much like money but not necessarily priced in dollars.

[JetsFanInDenver]

the gov't bought toxic assets and preferred stocks at a low. they sold these things when the market recovered. Look it up, it's absolutely true that TARP made money. Don't take my word for it (like they said on Reading Rainbow)

People confuse the stimulus with the bailouts, it's true that the stimulus was a give-away... but then again if the gov't builds a road it technically makes no money off that new road... But there's a new road nonetheless. there are external benefits to the economy by building infrastructure.

TARP made money ? According to who ? Geithner ? But anyone who believes the official propoganda at its face value is.....whats the word......gullible!

Oh besides TARP you mean to say there have been no other implicit or explicit bailouts ? And i am not counting any stimulus.

Lets face it, if there was money to be made in any type of bailout (TARP included) and that too at a time when effective interest rates were held at 0% by the FED, you would have seen smart money jumping over each other to invest in the bailout!

[Scott Dierking]

Imagine if someone was actually smart enough to invest in BOTH stocks and commodities. That would be genius if that could be done.

[villain_the_foe]

I dont understand, how are you gonna use it?

are you going to sell them for US dollars? and then take a silkwood shower for how dirty you feel?

or is it when society is all broken down and people are wearing loin cloths, you'll use the gold then?

I don't get how you are gonna use it in this grand plan.

Me and my dollars I'm going down to the grocery store. Maybe I'll by some cheese from Italy. And then I'll eat it.

Your gold is sitting in the safe.

When you move into gold you're making a political decision. Because of that fact that makes this is a political conversation.

Politics arent discussed here.

[bitonti]

When you move into gold you're making a political decision. Because of that fact that makes this is a political conversation.

Gold is an element, a soft metal. It doesn't have a political opinion.

And unless it's a 50$ Proof American Eagle coin, it's not really money.

let me also add the market is... wait for it... 200 points over 11000.

when the market goes down you guys cry and whine

the market goes up this thread is a ghost town.

[JerryK]

Bit, the market going up quiets everyone, but that's just the drug of cheap consumer prices talking. The problem is still there, and we'll continue to see more downs than ups, unless we stop urinating on our own dinner plates.

Here's a plain-ol yahoo finance history of the DOW from 1930x to now.

I'm assuming 1980 is when we decided to get cute and ship our middle class overseas

-- so we could have cooler happy meal toys and all the goodies at Harbor Freight (until they break). The ol' dow is really skyrocketing in the 30years since that genius idea, I think.

[villain_the_foe]

Gold is an element, a soft metal. It doesn't have a political opinion.

And unless it's a 50$ Proof American Eagle coin, it's not really money.

let me also add the market is... wait for it... 200 points over 11000.

when the market goes down you guys cry and whine

the market goes up this thread is a ghost town.

The person who buys gold for economic reasons has a political opinion. I just dont want to be banned for mentioning politics on this website because I do like to be quite specific on my reasoning. However, I'll be general too keep people from getting too overly emotional.

Firstly, I dont cry when the markets go down, my money is in metals so that doesnt make much sense to me. As a ghost town, that cant be true because the moment the markets go up thats when "you" come around and we respond to you. That doesnt make sense to me. Me telling you that the Dow is still down over 1,000 pts while Gold is $247 over the spot when we started talking about this wont make sense to you which shocks me.

The market isnt up when compared to gold Bit. You are so concerned about your numbers that you simply cant see the truth in all this. This is probably why people are treating this like a ghost town when the markets go up, because you only hear what you want to hear. I'll say it again buddy. The markets overall are on a decline, and your opinion doesnt change that truth.

This topic is getting boring because you are blind to the fact and you will defend this till your last dollar, and your lack of respect for real money is obvious with your loin cloth remarks etc. The convo no longer excites me.

I've already mentioned about the plunge protection team coming in and pushing up the market over 600pts in its last hour, you said nothing on that. I've already told you that the metals market is still controlled by the paper market so I expect a huge dip before we see what is ultimately coming. You get excited when the market goes up one day but for the last 4 weeks its down almost 10%. Talking to you is not working because the actual facts dont reach you. YOu dont understand that the markets go up because "PEOPLE" print them which causes the markets bounce back....but the money is worth less so the 11,000 DOW today isnt worth the 11,000 DOW in 2000. You dont think this deep. You just talk about 200 points and this place being a ghost town.

I mentioned my point bringing up "the world of firsts" in respects to the market and you said nothing on it and the market was UP that day. So your ghost town remark again, is bullsh*t. You're ignoring my points....so why continue this convo bit.

You're going to live poorer next year than you did this year dealing with this market. Thats just what it is because inflation is moving faster than your beloved market.

Maybe this video can clarify things.

[villain_the_foe]

Bit, the market going up quiets everyone, but that's just the drug of cheap consumer prices talking. The problem is still there, and we'll continue to see more downs than ups, unless we stop urinating on our own dinner plates.

Here's a plain-ol yahoo finance history of the DOW from 1930x to now.

I'm assuming 1980 is when we decided to get cute and ship our middle class overseas

-- so we could have cooler happy meal toys and all the goodies at Harbor Freight (until they break). The ol' dow is really skyrocketing in the 30years since that genius idea, I think.

the market is only going up number wise, but when it comes to comparing the market to commodities its dropping like a turd in the toilet bowl. So the market isnt keeping up with commodities or inflation overall. This is what im trying to explain to bit. Bit however is only concerned with making cracks on gold. Which kills me because what he's cracking on is outperforming what he defends. lol.

[Barcs]

Didn't the Dow Jones dip under 10,000 a few years back? It could be a lot worse, although I have no faith in that BS gambling system known as the stock market. Stocks go up based on how people THINK a company is going to do, rather than how they actually do. Makes no sense at all. Get rid of that crap.