Two wizened Jets fans jump on the Bevell Train: How to fix the Jets

[RSJ]

Why were Tannenbaum's drafts so much better when Mangini was his head coach?

 

He had a lot more and higher draft picks for starters. Are you suggesting Idzik drafted who Rex wanted? Why didnt the Jets get a GM with scouting experience than?

[T0mShane]

He had a lot more draft picks for starters. Are you suggesting Idzik drafted who Rex wanted? Why didnt the Jets get a GM with scouting experience than?

I'm saying that Rex's coaching staff develops defensive linemen and nothing else. Nothing.

[Bugg]

Yes. Every draft has sucked for five years. The Jets have had a unique power to scout and identify only subpar, uncoachable, irredeemable players. Nothing at all to do with their coaching. Nothing.

Happened upon an old Michigan.Ohio State game on the Big 10 Network. The OSU starting LBs were Carpenter, Hawk and Shlegel. Goes without saying the Jets drafted the Boar Hunter over 2 solid long-term NFL players.

[T0mShane]

Vernon Gholston

Remember when Rex said that he was going to turn Vernon Gholston into Terrell Suggs? Good times.

[RSJ]

I'm saying that Rex's coaching staff develops defensive linemen and nothing else. Nothing.

 

Fine, I could even agree with you on that. But this idea that Bevell and Idzik will perform better is a pipe dream. Bevell is a mediocre coach who has had one winning season in Seatle. The fans of Seattle want him gone. He coaches under Pete Carroll. He was let go from Minnesota, His one claim to fame is standing on the table on draft day asking for the team to draft a QB that went to his alma mater (Wilson). He runs the ball more than Rex. Idzik has been a complete disaster. Mention any of his pickups outside of Richardson and all you can do is laugh. 

[T0mShane]

Happened upon an old Michigan.Ohio State game on the Big 10 Network. The OSU starting LBs were Carpenter, Hawk and Shlegel. Goes without saying the Jets drafted the Boar Hunter over 2 solid long-term NFL players.

To be fair, Carpenter and Hawk have both been busts.

[Bugg]

To be fair, Carpenter and Hawk have both been busts.

Every team blows some picks. But we have entire drafts were 1 or 2 guys at most ever see the field.

[T0mShane]

Fine, I could even agree with you on that. But this idea that Bevell and Idzik will perform better is a pipe dream. Bevell is a mediocre coach who has had one winning season in Seatle. The fans of Seattle want him gone. He coaches under Pete Carroll. He was let go from Minnesota, His one claim to fame is standing on the table on draft day asking for the team to draft a QB that went to his alma mater (Wilson). He runs the ball more than Rex. Idzik has been a complete disaster. Mention any of his pickups outside of Richardson and all you can do is laugh.

Idzik's job this offseason was to take out the garbage, and he's doing that. We don't really know what Milliner will look like; all we know is that he has the same issues as fellow first rounder Kyle Wilson, which makes me think that these guys aren't getting good coaching. Every time a corner gives up a TD, we keep hearing about "technique." Who's coaching them "technique"? Smith has gone backwards, but he looked good early on, which makes me think it's less about ability and more about external factors. He's another guy I'll be interested in seeing under a different coach, because Rex's answer to Geno's struggles has been the same answer he applied to Sanchez's struggles (which obviously failed). Winters looks like Ducasse. Why? So far, when you run a player through The Rex Program, they come out looking the same as the players who went in before. It's impossible to believe that every player (not on the DL) has no potential. It's the coaching.

[Jetsfan80]

Remember when Rex said that he was going to turn Vernon Gholston into Terrell Suggs? Good times.]

 

You're right.  Rex's fault.  For everything.

[RSJ]

Every team blows some picks. But we have entire drafts were 1 or 2 guys at most ever see the field.

 

And to add insult to injury, we let guys like Woodhead and Cotchery just walk out of the building.

[Jetsfan80]

Idzik's job this offseason was to take out the garbage, and he's doing that. We don't really know what Milliner will look like; all we know is that he has the same issues as fellow first rounder Kyle Wilson, which makes me think that these guys aren't getting good coaching. Every time a corner gives up a TD, we keep hearing about "technique." Who's coaching them "technique"? Smith has gone backwards, but he looked good early on, which makes me think it's less about ability and more about external factors. He's another guy I'll be interested in seeing under a different coach, because Rex's answer to Geno's struggles has been the same answer he applied to Sanchez's struggles (which obviously failed). Winters looks like Ducasse. Why? So far, when you run a player through The Rex Program, they come out looking the same as the players who went in before. It's impossible to believe that every player (not on the DL) has no potential. It's the coaching.

 

Oh, so Rex told him who to draft.  Except Sheldon Richardson.  That was completely Idzik's call to draft a D-Lineman, a position Rex knows better than anyone.

[T0mShane]

Every team blows some picks. But we have entire drafts were 1 or 2 guys at most ever see the field.

Bad scouting is part of it, but coaching is a large part, too. Even awful teams with bad front offices stumble upon great players. Matt Millen drafted Megatron.

[T0mShane]

Oh, so Rex told him who to draft. Except Sheldon Richardson. That was completely Idzik's call to draft a D-Lineman, a position Rex knows better than anyone.

I have no idea how you read that post and assumed that was my conclusion.

[Jetsfan80]

Bad scouting is part of it, but coaching is a large part, too. Even awful teams with bad front offices stumble upon great players. Matt Millen drafted Megatron.

 

Because they drafted in the top 5 like every year.  Our success hurt our draft position.

[RSJ]

Idzik's job this offseason was to take out the garbage, and he's doing that. We don't really know what Milliner will look like; all we know is that he has the same issues as fellow first rounder Kyle Wilson, which makes me think that these guys aren't getting good coaching. Every time a corner gives up a TD, we keep hearing about "technique." Who's coaching them "technique"? Smith has gone backwards, but he looked good early on, which makes me think it's less about ability and more about external factors. He's another guy I'll be interested in seeing under a different coach, because Rex's answer to Geno's struggles has been the same answer he applied to Sanchez's struggles (which obviously failed). Winters looks like Ducasse. Why? So far, when you run a player through The Rex Program, they come out looking the same as the players who went in before. It's impossible to believe that every player (not on the DL) has no potential. It's the coaching.

 

Why is David Gerrard on this roster? 

 

Who's idea was it to sign Stephen Peterman, Mike Goodson, or any or the other guys that Idzik signed?

 

Cromartie and Revis seemed to do ok under Rex.

 

The fact is Aarron Beasley was a better pick up than 95% of Idzik's signings.

[Jetsfan80]

I have no idea how you read that post and assumed that was my conclusion.

 

Your general argument is that the coach has a huge say in who is drafted.  I contend that Idzik didn't allow that to happen in his 1st draft.

[T0mShane]

Why is David Gerrard on this roster?

Who's idea was it to sign Stephen Peterman, Mike Goodson, or any or the other guys that Idzik signed?

Cromartie and Revis seemed to do ok under Rex.

The fact is Aarron Beasley was a better pick up than 95% of Idzik's signings.

Idzik's task was to get through 2013 to purge the roster of Rex's love-children Holmes and Sanchez. To do that, he plugged holes with rental players. If it was Idzik's goal to build a contender this year, then you're right--he sucked. But it wasn't. He's going into next year with $50 million dollars in cap space, a bunch of draft picks, and a group of young, athletic players with very few expensive vets weighing down the roster.

[T0mShane]

Your general argument is that the coach has a huge say in who is drafted. I contend that Idzik didn't allow that to happen in his 1st draft.

My general argument is that Rex hasn't developed the players that were drafted under him

[RSJ]

Idzik's task was to get through 2013 to purge the roster of Rex's love-children Holmes and Sanchez. To do that, he plugged holes with rental players. If it was Idzik's goal to build a contender this year, then you're right--he sucked. But it wasn't. He's going into next year with $50 million dollars in cap space, a bunch of draft picks, and a group of young, athletic players with very few expensive vets weighing down the roster.

 

Plugged what holes? What holes did he plug? I'm not asking for a contender - but this draft and free agency was the worst since, well, Pete Carroll was here.

[JiFtheOracle]

 Mangini lol

[T0mShane]

Plugged what holes? What holes did he plug? I'm not asking for a contender - but this draft and free agency was the worst since, well, Pete Carroll was here.

I don't think you can judge this draft right now. If you're judging free agency, what free agents did he sign with the intent of them being here next season? Mike Goodson? Because if you're upset about Willie Colon and Dawan Landry, you're getting upset about guys that aren't in the long-term plan. They're barely in the short-term plan. They're bodies.

[RSJ]

I don't think you can judge this draft right now. If you're judging free agency, what free agents did he sign with the intent of them being here next season? Mike Goodson? Because if you're upset about Willie Colon and Dawan Landry, you're getting upset about guys that aren't in the long-term plan. They're barely in the short-term plan. They're bodies.

 

What about Ivory? Powell is probably a better runningback and Tannenbaum picked him up in the same rouind as Ivory - but at the end of round 4. Gerrard was a terrible signing and to add to that, the guy is still on the roster for some unknown reason. Kerley, again not a high draft pick yet Idzik could find no one better. Just be honest for a second. If Bradway or Tannenbaum signed Goodson, it would be a punch line right now. Who else do you want to go through? Cumberland vs Winslow? Milliner vs Walls? Tannenbaum did a better job than Idzik over the offseason and he wasnt even here.

[T0mShane]

What about Ivory? Powell is probably a better runningback and Tannenbaum picked him up in the same rouind as Ivory - but at the end of round 4. Gerrard was a terrible signing and to add to that, the guy is still on the roster for some unknown reason. Kerley, again not a high draft pick yet Idzik could find no one better. Just be honest for a second. If Bradway or Tannenbaum signed Goodson, it would be a punch line right now. Who else do you want to go through? Cumberland vs Winslow? Milliner vs Walls? Tannenbaum did a better job than Idzik over the offseason and he wasnt even here.

Bilal Powell was a fourth round pick. Idzik traded a fourth for Ivory, who basically won the New England and New Orleans games by himself offensively. Again, I think you're judging Idzik based on not mortgaging future dollars in an attempt to prop up this year's team.

[RSJ]

Bilal Powell was a fourth round pick. Idzik traded a fourth for Ivory, who basically won the New England and New Orleans games by himself offensively. Again, I think you're judging Idzik based on not mortgaging future dollars in an attempt to prop up this year's team.

 

Look, a lot of what you are saying is correct. I never wanted the Jets to get rid of Mangini. Players didnt like him - but eventually he would have amassed enough talent where it wouldnt have mattered. Not a popular opinion, I get it. But in retrospect that might have been correct. Rex is a baffoon - but if we go with Bevell and Idzik dont be shocked if we look a lot like the Texans 4 years from now.

[Bugg]

Look, a lot of what you are saying is correct. I never wanted the Jets to get rid of Mangini. Players didnt like him - but eventually he would have amassed enough talent where it wouldnt have mattered. Not a popular opinion, I get it. But in retrospect that might have been correct. Rex is a baffoon - but if we go with Bevell and Idzik dont be shocked if we look a lot like the Texans 4 years from now.

Mangini may be a smart guy. But the whole tough guy/control freak has a shorter shelf life in the NFL then it did in the past. Now if you win right away, fine. But when it goes to poop like it did at the end of his tenure, he looks foolish. And when you are Mr. Do It My Way and you allow Brett Favre to waltz in and do what ever the hell he wants, you cannot come back from that when it crashes.It's too long a season and too hard a slog to be led by a miserable bastard every day.

[Jetsfan80]

Mangini may be a smart guy. But the whole tough guy/control freak has a shorter shelf life in the NFL then it did in the past. Now if you win right away, fine. But when it goes to poop like it did at the end of his tenure, he looks foolish. And when you are Mr. Do It My Way and you allow Brett Favre to waltz in and do what ever the hell he wants, you cannot come back from that when it crashes.

 

Tom Coughlin still has a job.

[T0mShane]

but if we go with Bevell and Idzik dont be shocked if we look a lot like the Texans 4 years from now.

Very possible, and the Bevell-Kubiak comparison is a good one, really. But nobody knows what Bevell will be in three, four years. There was a time when Scott Linehan and Cam Cameron were hot head coaching candidates. You just don't know where the next big head coach is going to come from.

[RSJ]

Mangini may be a smart guy. But the whole tough guy/control freak has a shorter shelf life in the NFL then it did in the past. Now if you win right away, fine. But when it goes to poop like it did at the end of his tenure, he looks foolish. And when you are Mr. Do It My Way and you allow Brett Favre to waltz in and do what ever the hell he wants, you cannot come back from that when it crashes.

 

I dont want to relive Mangini. He did lose credibility with Favre. The Harbaugh's run a similar program and it works, ditto coughlin. I feel like it still works in the NFL. Mangini deserved another year. He never really got a chance to see through what he built. 

[T0mShane]

Mangini was fired because Woody wanted a celebrity head coach to sell tickets at MetLife the next season.

[RSJ]

Very possible, and the Bevell-Kubiak comparison is a good one, really. But nobody knows what Bevell will be in three, four years. There was a time when Scott Linehan and Cam Cameron were hot head coaching candidates. You just don't know where the next big head coach is going to come from.

 

I dont either. Bevell may be the next Bill Walsh. I just feel that the number one thing this team needs is discipline. I fear that any coach under Pete Carroll will take this team further down a bad path. My sister and brother in law have lived in Seattle for the last 4 years. The circus there is comparable to the Jets since Rex, it really is.

[Jetsfan80]

Mangini was fired because Woody wanted a celebrity head coach to sell tickets at MetLife the next season.

 

Eric Mangini got fired by the Cleveland Browns.  And has yet to be hired anywhere else.  You're insane.

[RSJ]

Mangini was fired because Woody wanted a celebrity head coach to sell tickets at MetLife the next season.

 

I know, I remember the voicemail in 2009. lol

 

Woody is a complete moron.

[RSJ]

Eric Mangini got fired by the Cleveland Browns.  And has yet to be hired anywhere else.  You're insane.

 

He is the offensive quality control coach for the 49ers.

 

Holmgren did real well in Cleveland too.

[Jetsfan80]

He is the offensive quality control coach for the 49ers.

 

 

Cool.  I'm sure that 3rd HC job is just around the corner!

[T0mShane]

Eric Mangini got fired by the Cleveland Browns. And has yet to be hired anywhere else. You're insane.

Under Woody, Rex survived a 2012 season that would have gotten any other coach blacklisted from the league. Mangini was 8-3 at one point before his QB got hurt. As for Cleveland, name the last head coach that held that job that had any success.