Ryan Fitzpatrick, The Journeyman

[j4jets]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lets compare.

Geno Smith won 11 games in 2013, 2014 & 2015 combined, compared to Fitz's 10 in 2015.

Brandon Marshall + $200mil in FA spending + the weakest schedule in the league

Geno Smith's QB ratings were 66 and 77 in 2013 and 2014, 20 and 10 points worse than Fitz respectively.  That's 37th and 29th in the league in those years.

Brandon Marshall + $200mil in FA spending + the weakest schedule in the league

Geno Smith completed 55.8% and 59.7% in 2013 and 2014.  That's 35th and 27th in the legaue in those years.

Decker on one leg in 2014 and NELSON? + Holmes and Hill in 2013 (wow! what a way to get the rookie on track, which brings the next point) + 2nd round rookie QB

Geno Smiths YPA was 6.9 in both years.  The same as Fitz.

So Geno Smith was better by the of the points mentioned above

Geno Smith threw 12 TD's and 13 TD's in 2013 and 2014.  27 total in 2013, 2014 & 2015 combined.  4 less than Fitz in 2015.  And 28th and 25th in the league in those years. 

Decker on one leg in 2014 and NELSON? + Holmes and Hill in 2013 (wow! what a way to get the rookie on track, which brings the next point) + 2nd round rookie QB + Have you heard of a learning curve?

Question: How many Jets starting WRs from 2013 and 2014 not named Decker are still in the league?
Hint: Its the same number of times Fitz has taken his teams to the playoffs in his 10+ year career.

Geno Smith's INT% was 4.7% and 3.5%.  That's 2nd worst and 5th worst in the league in those years.  Fitz was 2.7%, good for 8th worst.

Decker on one leg in 2014 and NELSON? + Holmes and Hill in 2013 + 2nd round rookie QB + showing Fitz was the 8th worst passer in that category doesn't really help your statement of paying Fitz what he wants. Didn't think of that, did you?

Geno Smith threw 21 and 13 INT's in 2013 & 2014.  Thats 4th worst and 12th worst.

Decker on one leg in 2014 and NELSON? + Holmes and Hill in 2013 + 2nd round rookie QB + a learning curve?

Geno Smith fumbled 8 times and 8 times in 2013 and 2014.  That's 11th worst and 14th worst in those years.

Fitz has 59 fumbles in 105 starts. That averages to about 9 fumbles a year. Grasping at straws now.

Spin this horrific record as you like, "he just needs a fair chance" seems to be the Sanchez-esque line most prefer.

Have I made any invalid points thus far? You said Petty hasn't played in an NFL type offense before. I agreed with you. There is a difference in competition. How are you comparing Fitz to Geno then when Geno never had two NFL caliber WRs in his rookie or most of 2014 (He got Percy and a healthy Decker in the last 4-5 games in 2014 and most ignore that part of his career without a valid explanation). If you don't agree with my points, then lets just agree to disagree.

But there is no doubt, Geno Smith was one of, if not thee, worst QB's in the NFL in 2013 and 2014, and he stats, and our win/loss record, reflected that.

Decker on one leg in 2014 and NELSON? + Holmes and Hill in 2013 + 2nd round rookie QB + How many rookie QB have won 8 games?
Geno was bad in 2013. Yes. He was a rookie that had Holmes and Hill to throw to and both have one leg out the door from this league. Geno's 2nd year as good as Fitz 4th and 5th year in the league. Not great by any means, but my arguments take into account the learning curve for both players.

If this is really what people want to go back to.......I simply cannot understand why.  Going 4-10 in 2014 was as horrible and unpleasant a year as we've had in a while, and Smith was a primary culprit.  Going 10-6 with Fitz, disappointing as the end was, was a refreshing break from the past few years of pathetic futility.

Lets not put 2014 on just Geno. We all know what happened that year with Idzik in charge and no CB to speak of when we had a ton of unused cap room, which helped the 2015 season when we spent like $40 mil extra in cap usage the year before. Then there is the argument of the weakest schedule in the league in 2015 vs. teams such as the Packers (12-4), Lions (11-5), Steelers (11-5), Broncos (12-4), Chiefs (9-7) and Chargers (9-7) along with Pats (12-4), Bills (9-7) and Dolphins (8-8). Thats 12 games against teams with 8 or more wins in a year we had no CBs, Decker with a hammy and David Nelson to start the year. And yes, those years were no fun and no team wants to go through that. Going 10-6 against some really bad teams wasn't really an accomplishment either when you miss out on the playoffs after going all out in the FA while mortgaging our future cap (Mo? Snacks? How many times have we drafted well in the past? not many, and we will be saying goodbye to the good players, which is not how a successful NFL team works.)

If we need a year (or two, max) to transition to Petty or another young QB, who is better suited to steer the ship till Petty is ready?  A well-liked, inspirational, average (Stats wise) Veteran QB with a 2-1 TD to INT ratio, or a guy who all but led the league in total turnovers both years he played, inspires no one, is immature enough to lose his job (and his jaw) to a few hundred bucks because he lied, and a guy who loses games in droves?

If  we need a year to transition over to Petty or another rookie from 2016, I'd much rather let them fight it out as opposed to going 8-8, missing the playoffs and having no clue what we have in Petty and the rookie, like it is right now with Petty. I'd rather keep Mo n Snacks for the long term than to keep Fitz for the short term with no benefit in sight. Think long term. 

If we're going to suck, if we're going to make the unusual choice of dumping a 10-win, 31 TD QB....it better damn well not be for Geno F'ing Smith.  Don't resign Fitz, if we think that's best, but if we start Geno, that's simply unforgivable levels of self-delusion and self-hatred by the Jets F.O.  

I've made myself pretty clear as to why I believe Geno isn't any worse than Fitz is. Again, the learning curve is a major factor most people tend to ignore. There's a reason Fitz couldn't beat out Geno in the off season even though Fitz had many years of experience in the NFL AND in the current offensive scheme with Gailey.

P.S. Brandon Marshall had his best season ever, production wise, with Fitz.  2nd in Yards (1502, his best was 1508) and 1st in TD's.

Yes he did. No argument there.

Eric Decker had his 2nd best season ever, production wise, with Fitz.  3rd in Yards (1027, best was 1266 with manning) and 2nd in TD's (12, best was 13, with Manning).

Considering he was slowed down in 2014 with lingering hamstring injury, and the only passing target worth covering, his 962 yards weren't far off from last year. He did have help when he got Percy Harvin half way through the season and it showed in the last 4 games when in which he went for 431 yards.

Fitz made his WR's better.  Geno Smith never met a WR he couldn't make looks worse.

Decker had his 2nd best game with Geno (he had a 4TD game with Manning). Again, Fitz didn't make his WR better. The combination of those two WRs made them better, plus playing against some of the worst ranked Ds in the league (13 Ds were ranked in the bottom half of the league, while 9 of them ranked 21st or worst. We played Ds that were ranked 21st, 22nd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 28th, 29th, and 32nd).

Its amazing how everything lined up perfectly for Fitz and he still couldn't beat the lowly Bills to get to the playoffs, while it was almost completely the opposite for Geno. But we wanna compare a rookie and then 2nd year guy to Fitz and his incredible timing. You can't make this stuff up.

See my reply in RED. Excuse my copy pasted responses. Didn't feel like paraphrasing the same thing.

Also, I think we need to agree to disagree since we'll be going in circles.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

CBS just posted some interesting evidence, does not think Fitz is worth Elite money for Jets

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25504263/film-study-why-ryan-fitzpatrick-is-not-the-jets-quarterback-cure

 

[Dcat]

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

Lets compare.

Geno Smith won 11 games in 2013, 2014 & 2015 combined, compared to Fitz's 10 in 2015.

Geno Smith's QB ratings were 66 and 77 in 2013 and 2014, 20 and 10 points worse than Fitz respectively.  That's 37th and 29th in the league in those years.

Geno Smith completed 55.8% and 59.7% in 2013 and 2014.  That's 35th and 27th in the legaue in those years.

Geno Smiths YPA was 6.9 in both years.  The same as Fitz.

Geno Smith threw 12 TD's and 13 TD's in 2013 and 2014.  27 total in 2013, 2014 & 2015 combined.  4 less than Fitz in 2015.  And 28th and 25th in the league in those years. 

Geno Smith's INT% was 4.7% and 3.5%.  That's 2nd worst and 5th worst in the league in those years.  Fitz was 2.7%, good for 8th worst.

Geno Smith threw 21 and 13 INT's in 2013 & 2014.  Thats 4th worst and 12th worst.

Geno Smith fumbled 8 times and 8 times in 2013 and 2014.  That's 11th worst and 14th worst in those years.

Spin this horrific record as you like, "he just needs a fair chance" seems to be the Sanchez-esque line most prefer.

But there is no doubt, Geno Smith was one of, if not thee, worst QB's in the NFL in 2013 and 2014, and he stats, and our win/loss record, reflected that.

If this is really what people want to go back to.......I simply cannot understand why.  Going 4-10 in 2014 was as horrible and unpleasant a year as we've had in a while, and Smith was a primary culprit.  Going 10-6 with Fitz, disappointing as the end was, was a refreshing break from the past few years of pathetic futility.

If we need a year (or two, max) to transition to Petty or another young QB, who is better suited to steer the ship till Petty is ready?  A well-liked, inspirational, average (Stats wise) Veteran QB with a 2-1 TD to INT ratio, or a guy who all but led the league in total turnovers both years he played, inspires no one, is immature enough to lose his job (and his jaw) to a few hundred bucks because he lied, and a guy who loses games in droves?

If we're going to suck, if we're going to make the unusual choice of dumping a 10-win, 31 TD QB....it better damn well not be for Geno F'ing Smith.  Don't resign Fitz, if we think that's best, but if we start Geno, that's simply unforgivable levels of self-delusion and self-hatred by the Jets F.O.  

P.S. Brandon Marshall had his best season ever, production wise, with Fitz.  2nd in Yards (1502, his best was 1508) and 1st in TD's.

Eric Decker had his 2nd best season ever, production wise, with Fitz.  3rd in Yards (1027, best was 1266 with manning) and 2nd in TD's (12, best was 13, with Manning).  His best year he played most of 2 games more than he did this year.

Fitz made his WR's better.  Geno Smith never met a WR he couldn't make looks worse.

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, j4jets said:

See my reply in RED. Excuse my copy pasted responses. Didn't feel like paraphrasing the same thing.

Also, I think we need to agree to disagree since we'll be going in circles.

You're quite right, we are quite close to Circle-land and agreement to disagree is likely the best route.

The problem I have with your argument is it basically boils down to "Trust me".  Trust me that all the horrible play of Geno Smith to date, two full seasons of bad passes, INT's and generally failure......had nothing to do with him.  It was all his lack of talent.  That if given that "fair chance" everyone always talks about, he'll.....I don't know, win 11 games (more than Fitz at least?)?  He'll throw 32 TD's (or more than Fitz would, at least?)  That he'll be what, a Franchise QB, maybe, sorta, could happen?    

I watched every snap Geno smith has taken as a Pro QB, and personally, I've seen nothing to indicate that he would be a good NFL QB if only, if only, if only.  

You disagree.

I will say this, you at least have made an exceptionally well-thought out quality effort to argue your position here, and I very much respect that.  No one should negrep that post, it's a GREAT post, even if it's a position I strongly disagree with based on a premise I disagree with.  Nice job my friend.  Well done.