JI/JN Border War Mafia Game Thread

[Frank Costello]

Yeah, but you unvoted Lefty when Al said he was probably JMJ. It wasnt just your vote toward Carlito, is was everything before and after, you took place in numerous conversations about who was who.

oy! dude.. again.. actively seeking the information is different then reacting to it once it comes out..

Consider; if I'm scum I'm desperately looking for cop tells. I'd like nothing more then to figure out who is the cop so I can NK him. If I'm a townie, I'm not looking for this information, should the cop come to L-2 and roleclaim, then I would act upon this information. If a player announced they were trying to figure out who the cop is on day 1, you'd think that was scummy, if another player was voting for the cop and unvoted once he was outed, you wouldn't think that was scummy, right?

Technically not, but everyone is using wifom logic as reason not to vote for either of the two. It has been a topic covered at length since the NK's.

Isn't it Joe and Henry though? My comment was saying that Joe and lefty's early drama almost seemed like a scum gambit designed to distance themselves from one another. meaning if one of them was lynched and turned up scum, peopel may assume there's no way the other one could be..

Nothing has panned out in this regard..

[Marcellus Wallace]

I get the case on Sonny but I'm ready to vote for him. I don't like the fact that he went from 3 votes on him to 6 in an hour and 20 minutes. Way to fast for my liking especially in a game thats been moving at such a slow place.

I'm starting to feel that voting Henry or Joe would not be the worst direction to go in. I know people are reluctant to vote for them with the WIFOM situation but we're likely gonna have to make a decision on them eventually especially since we have no cop to investigate. Unless someone has a better direction, and I'm not counting Sonny for my reason above, I think this has got to be something to consider.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count

Tony Montana (1) - Henry Hill

Sonny LoSpecchio (6) - Frank Costello, Lefty Ruggerio, Ace Rothstein, Fredo Corleone, Joe Cabot, Al Capone

Marcellus Wallace (1) - Vito Corleone

Henry Hill (1) - Tommy DeVito

Frank Costello (1) - Jimmy Conway

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch

[Marcellus Wallace]

oy! dude.. again.. actively seeking the information is different then reacting to it once it comes out..

Consider; if I'm scum I'm desperately looking for cop tells. I'd like nothing more then to figure out who is the cop so I can NK him. If I'm a townie, I'm not looking for this information, should the cop come to L-2 and roleclaim, then I would act upon this information. If a player announced they were trying to figure out who the cop is on day 1, you'd think that was scummy, if another player was voting for the cop and unvoted once he was outed, you wouldn't think that was scummy, right?

Gotcha. So why are you not voting for Carlito still?

Isn't it Joe and Henry though? My comment was saying that Joe and lefty's early drama almost seemed like a scum gambit designed to distance themselves from one another. meaning if one of them was lynched and turned up scum, peopel may assume there's no way the other one could be..

Nothing has panned out in this regard..

Yes, I'm a moron and the names are confusing me.

[Frank Costello]

Gotcha. So why are you not voting for Carlito still?

Because it was only an early day 1 case? I still don't like it, but I certainly wouldn't call it a definitive tell..

[Marcellus Wallace]

Just a heads up for tomorrow. Bad day for me so I won't be around much until the late afternoon.

[Joe Cabot]

Just a heads up for tomorrow. Bad day for me so I won't be around much until the late afternoon.

Now see stuff like this pisses me off. We've asked how many times to get a vote out there? And you spend time around in here, made a couple of posts, but no voting again, and yet again we'll have to wait when a lot of the activity is in the morning.

It's not too much to ask that you put in a vote

[Marcellus Wallace]

Now see stuff like this pisses me off. We've asked how many times to get a vote out there? And you spend time around in here, made a couple of posts, but no voting again, and yet again we'll have to wait when a lot of the activity is in the morning.

It's not too much to ask that you put in a vote

Fine vote:Henry Hill for reasons above.

Happy now?

[Virgil Sollozzo]

I apologize for my absence. Long day. Catching up and will post with a vote shortly.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

What am I trying to say? I think they'd want us to think it was an obvious setup, and divert our attention from any "set up" players, at least for the day. Henry is that guy, and aside from being "setup," he played the I've been setup card really quickly. Now you could counter that by saying Henry is just a strong player that was preimpting what the scum was going to do. Well I'll go ahead and counter that with what strong player would ever suggest the doc revealing on day 2, down two power roles (and still definately the possibility more are around)?

Right now this argument makes the most sense to me. Vote: Henry Hill for insisting there are no more power roles and the doc should reveal. Always better safe than sorry, most of us know this.

I see the case on Sonny. But am not sure of him. At this point the scum know we look at post counts. It is easier to post frequently and say little. Why draw unneeded attention to low post numbers. I wish him to contribute more though and may change my vote tomorrow.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count

Tony Montana (1) - Henry Hill

Sonny LoSpecchio (6) - Frank Costello, Lefty Ruggerio, Ace Rothstein, Fredo Corleone, Joe Cabot, Al Capone

Marcellus Wallace (1) - Vito Corleone

Henry Hill (3) - Tommy DeVito, Marcellus Wallace, Virgil Sollozo

Frank Costello (1) - Jimmy Conway

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch

[Ace Rothstein]

Right now this argument makes the most sense to me. Vote: Henry Hill for insisting there are no more power roles and the doc should reveal. Always better safe than sorry, most of us know this.

I see the case on Sonny. But am not sure of him. At this point the scum know we look at post counts. It is easier to post frequently and say little. Why draw unneeded attention to low post numbers. I wish him to contribute more though and may change my vote tomorrow.

The thing about Sonny is that during the first day he was doing what you said scum would do. He had a decent number of posts but little to no game substance in them. Now he seems to have gone off the reservation so to speak, so he's done both of the styles you mention in the 2nd paragraph. I voted for him day 1 and again today due to the fact that when he is around he seems to be trying to be active without actually saying anything of value to the town. In post #326 I collected a lot of his earlier posts if you want a better look at what I mean.

I'd be a hypocrite to vote for him strictly due to post count. I understand all too well that guys like Sonny and Marcellus are legitimately busy and/or don't necessarily work with internet access. I don't either and my post count reflects that. The difference is when I am able to get involved in the game my posts are game related and are consistently at least trying to find info for the rest of the town.

[Carlito Brigante]

Of the cases out there, I think Sonny's is the most convincing one thusfar, simply because the closest he's had to a defence so far is to attempt to deflect suspicions off of him and onto myself and Al.

Vote: Sonny

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Okay, Sonny is at L-2 (for Jimmy, that means he's 2 away from lynch ). No one should put in the last 2 votes until, at least, Sonny can chime in.

Sonny hasn't posted since 10:53 am yesterday morning after the first 2 votes against him. We'd really like to hear from you Sonny.

[Henry Hill]

Right now this argument makes the most sense to me. Vote: Henry Hill for insisting there are no more power roles and the doc should reveal. Always better safe than sorry, most of us know this.

I see the case on Sonny. But am not sure of him. At this point the scum know we look at post counts. It is easier to post frequently and say little. Why draw unneeded attention to low post numbers. I wish him to contribute more though and may change my vote tomorrow.

I never insisted on either. Learn to read or find another hobby.

[Henry Hill]

With potentially 6 bad guys, the Sonny case is bothering me. I haven't thought this through completely, but I'm just not confident that scum would jump on the first train allowing it to get to 7 votes without trying hard to make a case for someone else. Which could easily be me, which has gained a bit of steam.

Either way, with 6 people in this game who dont care who dies as long as it's not them, I'm not ready to jump on the only train of the day.

[Tony Soprano]

I admit the case on Sonny makes sense, but I've got to ask, how does Tony miss heat for essentially the exact same thing? Sure, he's been around a lot...but we've gotten a lot of "sorry I haven't been here, I'll be more active now" posts from Tony, only to have him disappear again.

FOS: Sonny for now, if I can't get a train going on Henry I'll jump over ONLY to avoid a random lynch.

That's not exactly true Tommy. On Sat night I wrote that I would be away from the internet from Sunday morning until now. I also said that I would try and review and vote. However, I didn't find enough of a case on anyone, and did not have time to read again before I left Sunday morning.

That said, I do think it's fair that I face some scrutiny, since others have had to do the same when they've been absent from the game for a couple of days.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

With potentially 6 bad guys, the Sonny case is bothering me. I haven't thought this through completely, but I'm just not confident that scum would jump on the first train allowing it to get to 7 votes without trying hard to make a case for someone else. Which could easily be me, which has gained a bit of steam.

Either way, with 6 people in this game who dont care who dies as long as it's not them, I'm not ready to jump on the only train of the day.

Totally understandable, Henry. The Sonny train has picked up steem and you would think that if Sonny was scum, the scum would try to deflect. Unless, the scum believe that Sonny has left himself too vulnerable that to try to deflect would bring unwanted attention on the other 3 players.

I would suggest that you avoid voting for Sonny unless it's to avoid your imminent lynching. That is, if both of you are at L-1. We need for Sonny to chime in here and we can wait as long as people believe it necessary (unless Doggin's timelimit is approaching, which it should be, but I don't know when).

[Tony Soprano]

Dead on.

However, is it really the end of the world to reveal the Doc today? We've got 6 bad guys among us now, the Doc will be protecting him or herself regardless.

The only flaw here is if a Doc can't protect himself from conversion. Doggin?

Henry, I don't see the upside to a doc reveal at this point. Hmmm, kind of a shady suggestion.

[Marcellus Wallace]

I never insisted on either. Learn to read or find another hobby.

Yes, but you didnt quite cover all your basis against Tommy's original point, you gave an answer with percentages from a scum standpoint, not really from the persepective that you could be the Cult leader trying to recruit the Doc.

[Henry Hill]

Yes, but you didnt quite cover all your basis against Tommy's original point, you gave an answer with percentages from a scum standpoint, not really from the persepective that you could be the Cult leader trying to recruit the Doc.

Because the idea that I'm the cult leader is laughable.

Give me one good reason why the cult leader would have done what I did with Nicky day 1 and into the night. All it did was draw undo attention to myself. Honestly, I'm losing interest in defending myself.

End of Day 1, why would I pick a fight with another player, rather than killing the obviously innocent player?

Night 1, why would I kill the one guy I picked a fight with?

Day 2, I get challenged 4 times in 1 page based on the two above. Then, I say 'it wouldn't be the end of the world to hear from the doc', which is twisted into insiting on a reveal.

And as to your question specifically, I don't actually believe the Dr. can't protect himself from conversion, and if he could, then yes, the idea would be that I would take a shot at him, and then claim doc. Except, with 4 scum remaining, it makes sense for them to take a shot at me as the doc anyway, because, if I'm lying, they've killed the cult leader, and basically the only real threat to them left.

Regardless, get me to L-1, I'll give you my final thoughts, and then kill me. Then you can do what you want with my ideas when I turn up innocent, as the 4 scum, and any player left with a brain knows I will.

[Henry Hill]

Jimmy, add to that in the same post, as Tony quoted above, I asked Doggin if the conversion of the Doc was possible, calling that a flaw in the 'not the end of the world theory'. That should pretty much eliminate the theory of me trying to call for it means I'm the Cult Leader hoping to convert the doc. I'm not saying it exhonorates me as cult leader, just that the theory falls flat.

[Tony Soprano]

I find Sonny and Henry the scummiest at this point.

Henry suggesting that the doc reveal reeked. There's just no upside at all for the town.

Sonny got very defensive with just a couple of votes on him, and rather than make a case for his innocence, tried to throw Al, and someone else under the bus. He didn't even have a case against them, just more if a "hey, what about them?" thing. Very weak.

FOS on both, but with Sonny so close I'll

vote- Henry

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count

Tony Montana (1) - Henry Hill

Sonny LoSpecchio (7) - Frank Costello, Lefty Ruggerio, Ace Rothstein, Fredo Corleone, Joe Cabot, Al Capone, Carlito Brigante

Marcellus Wallace (1) - Vito Corleone

Henry Hill (4) - Tommy DeVito, Marcellus Wallace, Virgil Sollozo, Tony Soprano

Frank Costello (1) - Jimmy Conway

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch

[Marcellus Wallace]

Because the idea that I'm the cult leader is laughable.

Give me one good reason why the cult leader would have done what I did with Nicky day 1 and into the night. All it did was draw undo attention to myself. Honestly, I'm losing interest in defending myself.

End of Day 1, why would I pick a fight with another player, rather than killing the obviously innocent player?

Night 1, why would I kill the one guy I picked a fight with?

Day 2, I get challenged 4 times in 1 page based on the two above. Then, I say 'it wouldn't be the end of the world to hear from the doc', which is twisted into insiting on a reveal.

And as to your question specifically, I don't actually believe the Dr. can't protect himself from conversion, and if he could, then yes, the idea would be that I would take a shot at him, and then claim doc. Except, with 4 scum remaining, it makes sense for them to take a shot at me as the doc anyway, because, if I'm lying, they've killed the cult leader, and basically the only real threat to them left.

Regardless, get me to L-1, I'll give you my final thoughts, and then kill me. Then you can do what you want with my ideas when I turn up innocent, as the 4 scum, and any player left with a brain knows I will.

Jimmy, add to that in the same post, as Tony quoted above, I asked Doggin if the conversion of the Doc was possible, calling that a flaw in the 'not the end of the world theory'. That should pretty much eliminate the theory of me trying to call for it means I'm the Cult Leader hoping to convert the doc. I'm not saying it exhonorates me as cult leader, just that the theory falls flat.

I get where you are going, and I havent voted you, my point is....if you were indeed maliciously asking for the Doc to reveal, it would be more so because you were the Cult leader opposed to scum.

And you definitely are not exhonorated because of the conversation, but like I said I understand your point and its why I havent voted you but its worth mentioning and having some conversation around it. I think you should be able to agree to that.

[Henry Hill]

I get where you are going, and I havent voted you, my point is....if you were indeed maliciously asking for the Doc to reveal, it would be more so because you were the Cult leader opposed to scum.

And you definitely are not exhonorated because of the conversation, but like I said I understand your point and its why I havent voted you but its worth mentioning and having some conversation around it. I think you should be able to agree to that.

Certainly, but the idea that I 'insisted on a reveal' is a pure fabrication.

As I said, I'm being set-up, and it's becoming more clear than ever who's doing it.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Certainly, but the idea that I 'insisted on a reveal' is a pure fabrication.

As I said, I'm being set-up, and it's becoming more clear than ever who's doing it.

Are you referring to these 4 players, or just a couple imparticular....

Henry Hill (4) - Tommy DeVito, Marcellus Wallace, Virgil Sollozo, Tony Soprano

[Vito Corleone]

Now see stuff like this pisses me off. We've asked how many times to get a vote out there? And you spend time around in here, made a couple of posts, but no voting again, and yet again we'll have to wait when a lot of the activity is in the morning.

It's not too much to ask that you put in a vote

Fine vote:Henry Hill for reasons above.

Happy now?

This is the kind of thing that has my vote on Marcellus. He posts a little bit about the game, then says he has to leave. He gets called on it, and lo and behold he's still lurking at 2AM to cast a vote with an attitude.

But there's no traction there, so I'm open to moving my vote if need be. The case against Henry is interesting me. Sonny too, but not so much that I'm ready to drop the hammer until he's had a chance to speak.

[Frank Costello]

With potentially 6 bad guys, the Sonny case is bothering me. I haven't thought this through completely, but I'm just not confident that scum would jump on the first train allowing it to get to 7 votes without trying hard to make a case for someone else. Which could easily be me, which has gained a bit of steam.

Either way, with 6 people in this game who dont care who dies as long as it's not them, I'm not ready to jump on the only train of the day.

6 bad guys.. but they aren't working together..

With 16 players, assuming that a conversion was successful (and don't be so sure it was), worst case scenario were are looking at 5 scum vs 2 cult vs 9 townies..

Seeing as how the cult has no reason to vote with the scum nor do they know who is scum (and vice versa) that means that if Sonny is scum, he'd have gotten 7 out of 12 non teammate votes (assuming he wasn't bussed by a single teammate (which by now he was I'd bet))

If Sonny is in the cult, he has received 7 out of a possible 14 non teammate votes.

Neither of which as as improbable as you make it seem..

The speed of the train is alarming, but not damning imo.. I don't see the Henry Hill case, unless he went for the wifom, but it was a pretty sloppily executed one frankly..

[Tony Soprano]

Certainly, but the idea that I 'insisted on a reveal' is a pure fabrication.

As I said, I'm being set-up, and it's becoming more clear than ever who's doing it.

You didn't insist on a reveal, sure. But why even suggest one at that point. And didn't you start the "set up" talk awfully early as well? Why so jumpy?

[Fredo Corleone]

Certainly, but the idea that I 'insisted on a reveal' is a pure fabrication.

As I said, I'm being set-up, and it's becoming more clear than ever who's doing it.

Thats why you didn't get my vote honestly. I can't figure what side of the wifom you are on. If you think you know who please spill. I have my vote on Sonny but not against changing it if their is something better out their.

[ZachEY]

oops

[Fredo Corleone]

Are you referring to these 4 players, or just a couple imparticular....

Henry Hill (4) - Tommy DeVito, Marcellus Wallace, Virgil Sollozo, Tony Soprano

Jimmy your constant badgering is starting to wear on my nerves. Do you think you could calm down enough to allow Henry to answering the friggin question?

[Fredo Corleone]

Not all of them, and not only them.

Hello EY, what do you think about Henry? Any insight the rest of us are missing?

[Vito Corleone]

This post reeks, Henry.

Because the idea that I'm the cult leader is laughable.

Give me one good reason why the cult leader would have done what I did with Nicky day 1 and into the night. All it did was draw undo attention to myself. Honestly, I'm losing interest in defending myself.

End of Day 1, why would I pick a fight with another player, rather than killing the obviously innocent player?

Night 1, why would I kill the one guy I picked a fight with?

Everyone here is under the impression that the Cult Leader converts players, and here you are defending against a charge of being the CL by asking why would the CL kill one player and not another.

I'm starting to think you know more about what the Cult Leader can do than the rest of of us.

Regardless, get me to L-1, I'll give you my final thoughts, and then kill me. Then you can do what you want with my ideas when I turn up innocent, as the 4 scum, and any player left with a brain knows I will.

unvote

vote: Henry Hill

I don't know why we need to get you to L-1 to spill, but at this point I'm all for getting you there so I can hear from you.