j4jets Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well, to put things into perspective, let me ask you a question: How many teams go to the Superbowl and nearly win it while in a state of rebuilding? Because that's what 2011 was for the Patriots. Pretty uncanny if you ask me. I can't think of any HC i'd rather have, and for me, it really isn't even close. I feel lucky to have him and believe he'll go down as one of the greatest, which is no easy task when talking about NFL head coaches, because the bar has been set rather high. Just my opinion How does a team go into rebuilding state after a 14-2 season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 coach and GM are two full time jobs. Not just a normal FT job either they are like 80-120 hour a week jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedAwesome Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 How does a team go into rebuilding state after a 14-2 season? 2009 was basically the last gasp of the old guard. The locker room was uncharacteristically unhealthy for a Patriot team and people were getting old. After that season ended, Belichick started cleaning house. The 2010 team was really the beginning of a new era and a new team with nothing to do with the old. Young, new defense with lots of holes, Gronk and Hernandez, moving to a new offense (the two TE attack) The whole last four years has been a rebuilding process. Ignore the records, as they're just an example of why Belichick and Brady are unique first ballet HOF'ers. The team was completely different, and very young. The old Dynasty guard was completely gone. Hernandez becoming a serial killer was a blow to this, and we were competitive offensively, but this is really the first year that it's all come to real fruitition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedAwesome Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 coach and GM are two full time jobs. Not just a normal FT job either they are like 80-120 hour a week jobs. Yeah, and there's really not a whole lot of people you can trust with this responsibility. I think the Eagles made the right call this week giving Chip Kelly sweeping, Belichick-like powers over Philly, but were I an NFL owner, I don't know i'd do that for just anyone. They'd have to demonstrate themselves to be real innovators and great football minds first, not just your average guy who's lingered around long enough to know enough to run a pro practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well, to put things into perspective, let me ask you a question: How many teams go to the Superbowl and nearly win it while in a state of rebuilding? Because that's what 2011 was for the Patriots. Pretty uncanny if you ask me. I can't think of any HC i'd rather have, and for me, it really isn't even close. I feel lucky to have him and believe he'll go down as one of the greatest, which is no easy task when talking about NFL head coaches, because the bar has been set rather high. Just my opinion Bad coach is the wrong thing to say - but I certainly wouldn't say he's "great" - He has an all-time great QB and has done a nice job managing him. Peyton Manning is at a similar skill level to Brady - and he has a very similar regular season record - but has had multiple head coaches. Are all of Manning's HC's hall of famers? or is it that those coaches happen to have an all-time great QB? What's more likely? 1) BB has a very pedestrian HC record before Brady but all of a sudden becomes a great HC as soon as he's starting Brady? or 2) BB finds an all-time great QB in the 6th round which then has the Pats winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Jets fan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 How many playoff games has BB won without Brady?? End of discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedAwesome Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Bad coach is the wrong thing to say - but I certainly wouldn't say he's "great" - He has an all-time great QB and has done a nice job managing him. Peyton Manning is at a similar skill level to Brady - and he has a very similar regular season record - but has had multiple head coaches. Are all of Manning's HC's hall of famers? or is it that those coaches happen to have an all-time great QB? What's more likely? 1) BB has a very pedestrian HC record before Brady but all of a sudden becomes a great HC as soon as he's starting Brady? or 2) BB finds an all-time great QB in the 6th round which then has the Pats winning? Hmm. Well, again, the Cleveland Browns under Belichick toppled Parcels Patriots in the playoffs and were off season favorites to go to the Superbowl the following year before Art torpedoed the season. Ozzie Newsome credits the Baltimore Ravens 2000 Superbowl win with Belichick's program for drafting players, over all organization, and the very system that he later installed in New England which won three Superbowls - Superbowls football insiders believe would have belonged to Cleveland had the team not been destroyed. He then takes over the Patriots, keeps Brady as a 4th quarterback, and goes on to win the only dynasty of the salary cap era. He's also regarded as the best half time adjuster in all of football. As far as Peyton Manning goes, well... he's soft, has no fire, and wilts in big games when faced with adversity, so I can't pretend or humor the idea that he's Brady's equal. I think you guys are judging Belichick for seasons when he first arrived at a football organization, which I don't think works because of the fact that Belichick's style is to build something long term, rock solid and sustainable. It isn't to show up and blow up his future salary cap with making big splashes in FA for short lived glory. Have you ever looked at Bill Parcels record when he didn't have Belichick around? It's actually pretty crappy and full of failure. And let's not forget, Belichick has a defensive game plan sitting in the NFL Hall of Fame from when he was the Giants defensive coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Have you ever looked at Bill Parcels record when he didn't have Belichick around? It's actually pretty crappy and full of failure. And let's not forget, Belichick has a defensive game plan sitting in the NFL Hall of Fame from when he was the Giants defensive coordinator. All the Cleveland Torpedo his season is excuses and non-sense...He was also on his way to being fired in NE before Brady came along. But I will agree he was a great DC - hard to argue with that - even what he did with the Jets D - when he was DC was very impressive But we all know - great DC does not mean great HC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedAwesome Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 All the Cleveland Torpedo his season is excuses and non-sense...He was also on his way to being fired in NE before Brady came along. But I will agree he was a great DC - hard to argue with that - even what he did with the Jets D - when he was DC was very impressive But we all know - great DC does not mean great HC... Great defensive coordinator that's easily scored a zillion more points on offense than any other team in football over the last ten years. I'd say Drew Brees is a pretty good quarterback and the Saints are flaky as hell. Do I think Belichick would have gone to 5 Superbowls and 8 AFC Championship games since 2001 if he had any other quarterback? No. But I don't know if Brady would have gone to 5 Superbowls and 8 AFC Championship games since 2001 if he was on another team, either. I don't think the success takes away from either one of them in favor of the other. I think Brady and Belichick together is one of those very rare moments in NFL history where the stars allign and two all time greats (quarterback and coach) end up in the same place, at the same time. Tom Brady might be torching defenses and breathing fire all over the field every season, but he isn't constructing rosters or coaching cornerbacks or cultivating oppurtunistic defenses. There's also the amount of things the league has ripped off from him (the two TE attack probably being the most recent). The Patriots have gone through way too many transformations in trend setting ways for me to think it's all Tom. Lot of teams have copied the Patriots schemes and ever changing offensive philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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