DaBrick Wall Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The poll was conducted asking the opinion of Major League Baseball players, about Major League Baseball players. That is all I can assume you are talking about. Why don't you tell us, rather than having us guess? I don't know why some of you are getting so uptight and wrapped around this. It is opinions based upon a predisposed basis that is not measurable. Granted, the opinions are an informed opinion (Major League baseball players CAN give the best opinion as to other Major League players), but it is a throw away type of poll. There is no measurable element to it. Why you choose to make anything bigger of it only speaks to your own lack of ability to talk about things with out emotion playing your card. I'm not getting emotional. You said that stats don't define players. So, I would like to know how you define a player. That is all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I'm not getting emotional. You said that stats don't define players. So, I would like to know how you define a player. That is all... Players are defined by what they contribute to their team. Do they fill the role that is expected of them, do they exceed those expectations or are the expectations unfullfilled? Stas are a part of that, but they don't fully define a player. Sabermetricians will try to make you believe otherwise, but there are roles of leaders, followers and guys that need to get out of the way. Any organization has that hierarchy. Teams are no differnt. If it were merely a case of talent and numbers, it would be overly easy to tell who teh best is. And who the best teams are. They would have the best numbers. But we all know it is rare that the teams with the best numbers win. People tend to look at the numbers too much, and that is where the term "overrated" can start being of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetkid94 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Is Jose Reyes overrated? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Is Jose Reyes overrated? yes What type of production would Reyes have to have in order for him not to be "overrated"? I am very curious as to what the majority of you think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetkid94 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 What type of production would Reyes have to have in order for him not to be "overrated"? I am very curious as to what the majority of you think about this? If he's suppost to be so good how many gold gloves does he have? He's a good hitter, doesent do well in the clutch, makes a lot of errors. He came into the league with people making it like hes the next rickey henderson. All Reyes shines in is speed, that's it. For him not to be overrated he has to get on base more, get more hits, get more rbi's. Also if he's the "leader" and the offensive ignitiator of your ball club obviously he sucks at it. What bothers me most is people say he's better than Jeter, and that is so not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 If he's suppost to be so good how many gold gloves does he have? He's a good hitter, doesent do well in the clutch, makes a lot of errors. He came into the league with people making it like hes the next rickey henderson. All Reyes shines in is speed, that's it. For him not to be overrated he has to get on base more, get more hits, get more rbi's. Also if he's the "leader" and the offensive ignitiator of your ball club obviously he sucks at it. What bothers me most is people say he's better than Jeter, and that is so not true. The only thing that made any sense in that post was that Reyes needs to be a better hitter in the clutch. He seems to struggle a bit with runners on base. But here's a look at his stats from 2004 to 2008 w/RISP 2 outs. 2004-.316, 2005-.235, 2006-.414, 2007-.195, 2008-.304. Not great, not horrible. He needs more hits, hmmmm...first 4 full seasons. 2005-2008 he has 190, 194, 191, 92 and counting so far. That's close to 200 hits a season. I don't think he needs "more hits" RBI's again 2005-2008, 58, 81, 57, 34 and counting. Not terrible. 2007 he had an awful year with RISP, but you know what, he's a leadoff hitter in the NL. Hopefully you understand that means he hits behind the 8th hitter and the pitcher. That's generally 2 gimme outs, so generally he won't have many RBI opportunities. I don't know about you, I like my lead off guys to score runs, and Reyes does that just about better than anyone His OBP, is a consistent .350 could be better but more than good enough for a guy with his extra base and base stealing ability. If you think he sucks as an "igniter" good look at the stats as to how many games he has led off a game and score the first run for the Mets. Take a look and you'll see how ignorant you are in this case. No one compared him to Rickey Henderson, you're the first person I've heard say that. Their body types are entirely different. Rickey was built like a tank. Reyes is wiry As far as gold gloves, Reyes should have won the gold glove last year. He's played an erratic shortstop this year, but is one of the better defensive players in the league. Most of the errors he's made was in one stretch due to whatever reason. I think you understand, the gold glove award doesn't mean anything. Offense impacts the way that award is voted upon. Jeter has multiple gold gloves, and that is a joke. He's average to above average defensive shortstop at best. David Wright probably didn't deserve his gold glove last year either. As far as the Jeter/Reyes comparisons. I've never said Reyes was better, but he has the potential to be better, but has a ways to go. Again, let me ask you. Please estimate the numbers Reyes has to put up to be "not overrated" and please don't just throw out generalizations without any supporting facts. As far as overrated, Jeter is the 3rd highest paid player in the league. Is he even close to being the 3rd best player in the league. Is he even in the top 30. Reyes makes less than 5 million a year. Well underpaid even if he is "overrated" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 You can't go by what athletes are paid strictly to determine whether or not they are "overrated." Jeter IS overrated; I've said this numerous times, because of his standing as a "clutch" performer and something more than he actually is on the field. THAT is what makes players overrated...to me, at least. And that's why Reyes is too. But I think they're both not the most overrated player in the game, and Jeter is pretty far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 You can't go by what athletes are paid strictly to determine whether or not they are "overrated." Jeter IS overrated; I've said this numerous times, because of his standing as a "clutch" performer and something more than he actually is on the field. THAT is what makes players overrated...to me, at least. And that's why Reyes is too. But I think they're both not the most overrated player in the game, and Jeter is pretty far from it. Jeter is overrated now, because he isn't nearly as good as he was during the world series wins. He was great during those years and ****ing spectacular during the playoffs. Now, not so much. Reyes is overrated because he isn't a good as he is probably going to be. Everyone is acting like reyes is a hall of famer already; when he isn't. No one is saying the reyes is a bad player, he is a very good baseball player he just isn't in the elite category that many people like to put him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Jeter is overrated now, because he isn't nearly as good as he was during the world series wins. He was great during those years and ****ing spectacular during the playoffs. Now, not so much. Reyes is overrated because he isn't a good as he is probably going to be. Everyone is acting like reyes is a hall of famer already; when he isn't. No one is saying the reyes is a bad player, he is a very good baseball player he just isn't in the elite category that many people like to put him in. Reyes isn't a hall of famer. Far from it. I only toss out facts to defend Reyes because there are a bunch of informed fans on this board who think Reyes is overrated without clarification as to why he is overrated. You have guys talking about how Jeter is better than Reyes, therefore Reyes must be overrated or Reyes needs to get more hits or Reyes is a .330 OBP guy so he is overrated. Upon examining the facts and statistics these arguments made no sense or irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Reyes isn't a hall of famer. Far from it. I only toss out facts to defend Reyes because there are a bunch of informed fans on this board who think Reyes is overrated without clarification as to why he is overrated. You have guys talking about how Jeter is better than Reyes, therefore Reyes must be overrated or Reyes needs to get more hits or Reyes is a .330 OBP guy so he is overrated. Upon examining the facts and statistics these arguments made no sense or irrelevant. There are some people who go around acting like this guy is a hall of fame caliber player already. Which he is not. He might be one someday. I think he will be. But, until he is those people who act like he is are overrating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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