Idzik review of moves

[Villain The Foe]

Revis-Wilson-Cromartie. We were a franchise in a downward trajectory that had already burned 3 1st or 2nd round picks on the position in the previous six years. While ignoring all skill positions besides Sanchez and Keller. So, yeah, the only self evident thing I see is that if you're a semi-sh*tty team that only pours resources into two positions, eventually, the bottom will completely fall out and you'll miss the playoffs for four straight years and completely flatline by the end.

I dont believe Idzik was here for those picks. I dont think Idzik was around for the Revis/WIlson/Cro era either. Idzik had a job to do, #1. Get the cap right, #2. Sign Revis to something sensible or trade him and find his replacement. 

Thats what happened and nothing under Tanny's watch matters or makes the move asinine, like it wasnt asinine to draft Richardson when we already had Wilkerson. Idzik wasnt ignoring the skill positions, he understood that he wasnt going to turn around the team in 1 year so he took what was available to him in that draft. GM's make these types of decisions, and when they work the fans say they knew it all along (richardson), when they dont the use words like asinine and use hindsight to support it.  

[The Troll]

I dont believe Idzik was here for those picks. I dont think Idzik was around for the Revis/WIlson/Cro era either. Idzik had a job to do, #1. Get the cap right, #2. Sign Revis to something sensible or trade him and find his replacement.

Thats what happened and nothing under Tanny's watch matters or makes the move asinine, like it wasnt asinine to draft Richardson when we already had Wilkerson. Idzik wasnt ignoring the skill positions, he understood that he wasnt going to turn around the team in 1 year so he took what was available to him in that draft. GM's make these types of decisions, and when they work the fans say they knew it all along (richardson), when they dont the use words like asinine and use hindsight to support it.

This is not a hindsight discussion. Believe it or not, not all Jets fans are on board with exclusively using the first round to draft ******* defensive backs and defensive linemen.

[Villain The Foe]

This is not a hindsight discussion. Believe it or not, not all Jets fans are on board with exclusively using the first round to draft ******* defensive backs and defensive linemen.

C'mon. You know better words than those. No need to get all frustrated and begin assuming. No one here said that any amount of Jet fans wanted to exclusively use the first round picks for defensive backs and linemen. But now that you've said that, with such passion behind it I might add, it confirms for me that the only reason why you're bitching is because Milliner so far hasn't panned out which would take hindsight to do. You would be bitching about Richardson but he's the MVP of the team so you can't, which hindsight also did that. 

 

Now that you've confirmed this for me there's no need for me to carry on with such an asinine topic. Don't hurt yourself this upcoming May also, one of our needs is a Cornerback! lol. You can have the last word sir. 

[The Troll]

C'mon. You know better words than those. No need to get all frustrated and begin assuming. No one here said that any amount of Jet fans wanted to exclusively use the first round picks for defensive backs and linemen. But now that you've said that, with such passion behind it I might add, it confirms for me that the only reason why you're bitching is because Milliner so far hasn't panned out which would take hindsight to do. You would be bitching about Richardson but he's the MVP of the team so you can't, which hindsight also did that.

Now that you've confirmed this for me there's no need for me to carry on with such an asinine topic. Don't hurt yourself this upcoming may also, one of our needs is a Cornerback! lol. You can have the last word sir.

Those are words I use in almost every one of my posts. Like, seriously. Use the search feature.

I really am pleased with Richardson. So glad our dominant defensive line has led us to a remarkable four whole victories. That's almost one per first rounder used on the position!

[Villain The Foe]

Those are words I use in almost every one of my posts. Like, seriously. Use the search feature.

I really am pleased with Richardson. So glad our dominant defensive line has led us to a remarkable four whole victories. That's almost one per first rounder used on the position!

I was going to leave this alone but humor me. Now that the draft is obviously done, who would you have picked instead of richardson that would have gotten us to 10 wins? I remember how so many Jet fans were mad that we didnt take Geno at that spot and take care of our "main priority" though we ended up getting him on day 2 anyway. So, who would you have taken with the 13th pick?

[j4jets]

We had spent a first on Wilson and a 2nd on Cro. 2012 was the only year since 2009 that we hasn't burned a first or second on a corner. IDGAF if Wilson didn't work out. How about trying to replace Santana Moss? Enough with the ******* corners!

I guess if you trade away a player, you can't draft their replacement.

[The Troll]

I guess if you trade away a player, you can't draft their replacement.

Creating holes and then filling them with 1st round picks is not how you turn around a team coming off back to back 8-8 seasons. Seriously, how is my position so hard to understand? We were a mediocre team, so we traded our best player. Fine. Extenuating circumstances with Revis. But then we burn a first at the same position, a position at which we'd already burned a 1st three years prior and a second two years prior. We went 8-8 twice pouring so many resources into the position WHILE HAVING PERHAPS THE BEST TO EVER PLAY THE POSITION. So, maybe, just maybe, the front office should have realized that using so many high draft picks on corners and ignoring offense entirely is NOT going to get you anywhere but 8-8. We had the best corner on Earth and mediocre was all we could do. You act like the 2013 Jets were just LOADED with talent. We weren't a corner away from the playoffs. We weren't the best corner in the world away from the playoffs. You don't draft to try and maintain the status quo of a team that can't win over half the damn games it plays.

[The Troll]

I was going to leave this alone but humor me. Now that the draft is obviously done, who would you have picked instead of richardson that would have gotten us to 10 wins? I remember how so many Jet fans were mad that we didnt take Geno at that spot and take care of our "main priority" though we ended up getting him on day 2 anyway. So, who would you have taken with the 13th pick?

As I said, I'm not dealing in hindsight. The Jets have drafted two skill position players in the first round since Santana Moss. That was 2001! That is absolutely an insane statistic, particularly considering that rule changes have led to an offensive explosion across the league, and even more insane considering the Jets own offense has never been anything better than mediocre over this 15 year period. The fact that we have criminally IGNORED one side of the ball for so long now is a complete and utter organizational failure. This franchise must be gutted, top to bottom, starting with the common link through all these decisions: Terry Bradway.

The Jets offense is a relic, a Datsun trying to keep up on a roadway filled with souped up Ferraris. You can't win with zero offense and all defense. It's obvious that this philosophy has finally completely bottomed the team out, so what exactly are you defending here?

[Villain The Foe]

As I said, I'm not dealing in hindsight. The Jets have drafted two skill position players in the first round since Santana Moss. That was 2001! That is absolutely an insane statistic, particularly considering that rule changes have led to an offensive explosion across the league, and even more insane considering the Jets own offense has never been anything better than mediocre over this 15 year period. The fact that we have criminally IGNORED one side of the ball for so long now is a complete and utter organizational failure. This franchise must be gutted, top to bottom, starting with the common link through all these decisions: Terry Bradway.

The Jets offense is a relic, a Datsun trying to keep up on a roadway filled with souped up Ferraris. You can't win with zero offense and all defense. It's obvious that this philosophy has finally completely bottomed the team out, so what exactly are you defending here?

I agree with all of this, but please answer my question.

[The Troll]

I agree with all of this, but please answer my question.

The question isn't relevant. If you'd like to turn this into a hindsight discussion, then fine. Obviously, no non-QB is worth an extra six wins. It's not about the Milliner pick or the Richardson pick specifically, but about the team's long standing draft philosophy. They focus on getting elite talent at only two positions while allowing the others to rot and eventually completely disintegrate when the mid to late round dart throws we make at skill positions and offensive linemen never pan out. It doesn't matter if we have the Fearsome Foursome if we are well below league average at almost every other position on the field.

[Villain The Foe]

The question isn't relevant. If you'd like to turn this into a hindsight discussion, then fine. Obviously, no non-QB is worth an extra six wins. It's not about the Milliner pick or the Richardson pick specifically, but about the team's long standing draft philosophy. They focus on getting elite talent at only two positions while allowing the others to rot and eventually completely disintegrate when the mid to late round dart throws we make at skill positions and offensive linemen never pan out. It doesn't matter if we have the Fearsome Foursome if we are well below league average at almost every other position on the field.

I didn't turn this into a hindsight topic, I'm simply asking you who would you have taken instead of Richardson. Not a hard question to answer really. Look, I'll even answer it first. I would have taken Geno Smith. 

[The Troll]

I didn't turn this into a hindsight topic, I'm simply asking you who would you have taken instead of Richardson. Not a hard question to answer really. Look, I'll even answer it first. I would have taken Geno Smith.

I was actually okay with Richardson, although I didn't know a lot about him. Milliner was the pick that infuriated me. I believe I wanted Floyd because he was supposed to be a top three pick and kept falling. Sadly, I coveted Tavon Austin more than any player in that draft.

[Villain The Foe]

I was actually okay with Richardson, although I didn't know a lot about him. Milliner was the pick that infuriated me. I believe I wanted Floyd because he was supposed to be a top three pick and kept falling. Sadly, I coveted Tavon Austin more than any player in that draft.

Thank you for answering. 

Now I can give you the pick that I would have taken with the Milliner pick up. It was Tavon Austin. 

 

I wanted to pick up Tavon Austin and Geno Smith. When Tavon was taken ahead of us I was cool with Dee Milliner because he was considered a top 5 type player as well. So when we signed him I was content with it. sh*t, if we're going to trade away the best player probably in the history in the franchise the we might as well get the top prospect to replace him right? Then, when we got to the 13th pick and everyone (probably including yourself) noticed both Geno Smith and Tyler Eifert were still on the board, this pick had to be one of those two, ESPECIALLY since we just went Defense with the first pick which infuriated us to begin with, not because of it being Dee Milliner, the real problem was that we went defense in the first round so many years prior.  Then when we took Sheldon Richardson, a guy that most of us never heard of over Star Lotulelei first off, then yet another defensive player all of us were pretty much livid because we just thought that we lost both Eifert and Geno yet we practically had two top 10 picks in that draft. 

 

I can honestly say that when we picked Geno up in the 2nd round, not only did I feel that getting Dee Milliner and Sheldon (after researching him after the pick) was the right move, but it was rather ballzy of Idzik to take a chance banking that he'd be able to get value such as a Geno smith in the 2nd round and actually getting his man. Even looking back on the draft I think that Dee Milliner and Sheldon were the right decisions. To force drafting an offensive player simply for the fact that they are on offense would have left us in a bind. No 1st round offensive player really produced from that draft class. Dee Milliner has been more in an injury prone player than an actual bust, which makes no difference I understand. But It will be his 3rd year and hopefully he can put together a complete season. 

 

Now you know why I disagree with people who bring up the Defensive picks point. Outside of Tavon Austin, which is looking more like a bad decision for the Rams, there was really no good skill set offensive player to take. Trying to replace your all pro corner and getting an athletic freaky DT/DE was the the right move no matter how many years prior we went defense first. 

Now last year I could completely understand, there were offensive players that was there for the taking and it seemed like Calvin Pryor was simply coveted. That was considered one of the deepest drafts at a position that we needed badly and we completely missed. Now I do understand not going WR in the 1st round given that we had signed Decker and it IS the deepest draft of WR's possibly ever, but to never move up in the 2nd round to get Matthews or another one of those type of WR's and to end up with 3 WR's who couldn't help you this year was a mistake. Calvin Pryor is a strong safety and he needs to be coached up on that position especially after yesterday's performance. Lamar Miller should not have had a 97 yard TD yesterday. At the same time, he is a rookie and us fans tend to want these rookies to look like pro bowlers in their rookie season like Odell is looking (he's a freak by the way). My point is this year we have the opportunity to get an offensive player with the 6th pick because there will be offensive players there warranting such a pick at that position. 2013 did not warrant that after Tavon was off the board. You even said it yourself with Floyd. 

[The Troll]

Thank you for answering.

Now I can give you the pick that I would have taken with the Milliner pick up. It was Tavon Austin.

I wanted to pick up Tavon Austin and Geno Smith. When Tavon was taken ahead of us I was cool with Dee Milliner because he was considered a top 5 type player as well. So when we signed him I was content with it. sh*t, if we're going to trade away the best player probably in the history in the franchise the we might as well get the top prospect to replace him right? Then, when we got to the 13th pick and everyone (probably including yourself) noticed both Geno Smith and Tyler Eifert were still on the board, this pick had to be one of those two, ESPECIALLY since we just went Defense with the first pick which infuriated us to begin with, not because of it being Dee Milliner, the real problem was that we went defense in the first round so many years prior. Then when we took Sheldon Richardson, a guy that most of us never heard of over Star Lotulelei first off, then yet another defensive player all of us were pretty much livid because we just thought that we lost both Eifert and Geno yet we practically had two top 10 picks in that draft.

I can honestly say that when we picked Geno up in the 2nd round, not only did I feel that getting Dee Milliner and Sheldon (after researching him after the pick) was the right move, but it was rather ballzy of Idzik to take a chance banking that he'd be able to get value such as a Geno smith in the 2nd round and actually getting his man. Even looking back on the draft I think that Dee Milliner and Sheldon were the right decisions. To force drafting an offensive player simply for the fact that they are on offense would have left us in a bind. No 1st round offensive player really produced from that draft class. Dee Milliner has been more in an injury prone player than an actual bust, which makes no difference I understand. But It will be his 3rd year and hopefully he can put together a complete season.

Now you know why I disagree with people who bring up the Defensive picks point. Outside of Tavon Austin, which is looking more like a bad decision for the Rams, there was really no good skill set offensive player to take. Trying to replace your all pro corner and getting an athletic freaky DT/DE was the the right move no matter how many years prior we went defense first.

Now last year I could completely understand, there were offensive players that was there for the taking and it seemed like Calvin Pryor was simply coveted. That was considered one of the deepest drafts at a position that we needed badly and we completely missed. Now I do understand not going WR in the 1st round given that we had signed Decker and it IS the deepest draft of WR's possibly ever, but to never move up in the 2nd round to get Matthews or another one of those type of WR's and to end up with 3 WR's who couldn't help you this year was a mistake. Calvin Pryor is a strong safety and he needs to be coached up on that position especially after yesterday's performance. Lamar Miller should not have had a 97 yard TD yesterday. At the same time, he is a rookie and us fans tend to want these rookies to look like pro bowlers in their rookie season like Odell is looking (he's a freak by the way). My point is this year we have the opportunity to get an offensive player with the 6th pick because there will be offensive players there warranting such a pick at that position. 2013 did not warrant that after Tavon was off the board. You even said it yourself with Floyd.

2013 was just a bad draft class. One of the real problems for me is that I basically view corners as interchangeable. Aside from maybe 5-10 of them that are clearly difference makers, the position is so hugely dependent on a pass rush. Prior to the Seahawks, none of the recent Super Bowl winning teams had great corners. In fact, most had league average corners. But they had elite pass rushers. That the Rex Ryan Jets have placed such a HUGE emphasis on this secondary (I mean that in more ways than one) position has immeasurably hurt this team.

The only problem I have with the constant d line picks, aside from ignoring the offensive side of the ball, is that in a 3-4, the outside linebackers are your pass rushers, not the ends. But ends are what we keep drafting. And we have some great ends, but what's needed to make a 3-4 run properly and take the pressure off the secondary are edge rushers. Something the defensive obsessed Jets have never used a premium pick on in 9 seasons of running the 3-4.

[Villain The Foe]

2013 was just a bad draft class. One of the real problems for me is that I basically view corners as interchangeable. Aside from maybe 5-10 of them that are clearly difference makers, the position is so hugely dependent on a pass rush. Prior to the Seahawks, none of the recent Super Bowl winning teams had great corners. In fact, most had league average corners. But they had elite pass rushers. That the Rex Ryan Jets have placed such a HUGE emphasis on this secondary (I mean that in more ways than one) position has immeasurably hurt this team.

The only problem I have with the constant d line picks, aside from ignoring the offensive side of the ball, is that in a 3-4, the outside linebackers are your pass rushers, not the ends. But ends are what we keep drafting. And we have some great ends, but what's needed to make a 3-4 run properly and take the pressure off the secondary are edge rushers. Something the defensive obsessed Jets have never used a premium pick on in 9 seasons of running the 3-4.

Not sure if you seen my mock draft in the other part of the forum but I'm REALLY hoping that we change to a 4-3 defense next year. I'd love seeing Coples, Harrison, Richardson, Ellis & Enemkpali on the line with Davis, Eric Kendricks from UCLA, Reilly and Pace as our LB's.

[The Troll]

Not sure if you seen my mock draft in the other part of the forum but I'm REALLY hoping that we change to a 4-3 defense next year. I'd love seeing Coples, Harrison, Richardson, Ellis & Enemkpali on the line with Davis, Eric Kendricks from UCLA, Reilly and Pace as our LB's.

Haven't seen it, but I absolutely agree with you. We've had a decade to implement this sh*t and still haven't figured it out, so it's beyond time to switch the scheme.

[j4jets]

Creating holes and then filling them with 1st round picks is not how you turn around a team coming off back to back 8-8 seasons. Seriously, how is my position so hard to understand? We were a mediocre team, so we traded our best player. Fine. Extenuating circumstances with Revis. But then we burn a first at the same position, a position at which we'd already burned a 1st three years prior and a second two years prior. We went 8-8 twice pouring so many resources into the position WHILE HAVING PERHAPS THE BEST TO EVER PLAY THE POSITION. So, maybe, just maybe, the front office should have realized that using so many high draft picks on corners and ignoring offense entirely is NOT going to get you anywhere but 8-8. We had the best corner on Earth and mediocre was all we could do. You act like the 2013 Jets were just LOADED with talent. We weren't a corner away from the playoffs. We weren't the best corner in the world away from the playoffs. You don't draft to try and maintain the status quo of a team that can't win over half the damn games it plays.

I wasn't a fan of the Revis trade. I wanted us to sign him for life. But I understood the thinking behind it. We weren't in a great position to keep him forever. We could've kept him in 2013 but then would have lost his in the FA to the highest bidder (certainly not Idzik) for nothing.

Like you said, he was our best player and possibly the best to ever play the game at his position. When such a player is traded, you have a huge hole to fill. We traded him cuz we were gonna lose him for nothing. Did u think Cro n Wilson were going to light up the NFL? Me neither.

[The Troll]

I wasn't a fan of the Revis trade. I wanted us to sign him for life. But I understood the thinking behind it. We weren't in a great position to keep him forever. We could've kept him in 2013 but then would have lost his in the FA to the highest bidder (certainly not Idzik) for nothing.

Like you said, he was our best player and possibly the best to ever play the game at his position. When such a player is traded, you have a huge hole to fill. We traded him cuz we were gonna lose him for nothing. Did u think Cro n Wilson were going to light up the NFL? Me neither.

The position just does not have a largely meaningful impact on football games unless you have someone like Revis. It was overkill when we drafted Wilson in the first. It was beating a dead horse by the time we drafted Milliner.