If we switched to the 4-3 D, wouldn't we better off?!

[Sperm Edwards]

with all due respect Sperm, the gints were playing for Nada in 1st game and

Spag made it clear that there gameplan was not to show the pats very much

Playing the pats in rain and wind is hardly a good measuring stick. If you want to get your rocks off so be it.

My point is not that the Giants' defense sucked. But rather to counter the simplistic idea that only a 4-3 defense can stop the Patriots offense. Our defense shut down that offense compared to what they were doing to everyone else. And we ran a 3-4. Badly. With a lot of miscast starters.

They have a tremendous amount of talent on their D-line. If we had Strahan, Osi, etc AND caught the Pats off-guard by blitzing like mad every game - and they never expected it game after game...then yes, I'd say that's the best defense to counter their offense.

It's not like they got exposed by figuring out their OLine's kryptonite & from that point on everyone figured them out. It was one game. Just like when we held them in check. Our defense still sucked & their offense was still great. It was one game.

[afosomf]

My point is not that the Giants' defense sucked. But rather to counter the simplistic idea that only a 4-3 defense can stop the Patriots offense. Our defense shut down that offense compared to what they were doing to everyone else. And we ran a 3-4. Badly. With a lot of miscast starters.

They have a tremendous amount of talent on their D-line. If we had Strahan, Osi, etc AND caught the Pats off-guard by blitzing like mad every game - and they never expected it game after game...then yes, I'd say that's the best defense to counter their offense.

It's not like they got exposed by figuring out their OLine's kryptonite & from that point on everyone figured them out. It was one game. Just like when we held them in check. Our defense still sucked & their offense was still great. It was one game.

i have zero confidence in EM that he has any clue what he is doing, the

talent he has now is better suited to a 4-3.

The Gints front 4 dominated the pats OL, yes they blitzed but each 1

of their DL beat the liviing sh1t out of their opponent. WE need to draft

heavy in DL and OL, pick up a FA LB and go back to 4-3.

3-4 this season, we may finish below fins IMO

[Sperm Edwards]

i have zero confidence in EM that he has any clue what he is doing, the

talent he has now is better suited to a 4-3.

The Gints front 4 dominated the pats OL, yes they blitzed but each 1

of their DL beat the liviing sh1t out of their opponent. WE need to draft

heavy in DL and OL, pick up a FA LB and go back to 4-3.

3-4 this season, we may finish below fins IMO

The talent he has now is not suited to being a GOOD defense in any scheme. Sucky players being slightly less sucky in the 4-3 does not make the switch so obvious. What should be obvious is to get rid of sucky, over-priced players who might actually have some trade value (DRob, Vilma, Ellis). Those three are the poster-boys for overrated potential. They blow. In the right scheme, Vilma is at least adequate if you don't mind 120 tackles being made after the first-down marker. Ellis had 2 good years in '03-'04. Other than that he's sucked save a decent game here or there. DRob is the biggest waste of cap space this side of Chad Pennington. His 8-figure cap number cannot be justified in any scheme.

We are no closer to having a STUD 4-3 defense than we are a stud 3-4 defense. The only STUD players we have would be solid in either formation (Harris, Rhodes, Revis). Coleman & Thomas are/were better in the 3-4 & have no place/totally useless in a 4-3. There is not one GREAT 4-3 player on this defense that has been neutralized by the 3-4.

And I don't have so much confidence in Mangini myself. I haven't written him off yet, but that doesn't mean I didn't have my share of complaints. Only thing I like about him is he is (allegedly) intelligent, so I suppose it is possible that he learns from having his past stubbornness blow up in his face.

[afosomf]

The talent he has now is not suited to being a GOOD defense in any scheme. Sucky players being slightly less sucky in the 4-3 does not make the switch so obvious. What should be obvious is to get rid of sucky, over-priced players who might actually have some trade value (DRob, Vilma, Ellis). Those three are the poster-boys for overrated potential. They blow. In the right scheme, Vilma is at least adequate if you don't mind 120 tackles being made after the first-down marker. Ellis had 2 good years in '03-'04. Other than that he's sucked save a decent game here or there. DRob is the biggest waste of cap space this side of Chad Pennington. His 8-figure cap number cannot be justified in any scheme.

We are no closer to having a STUD 4-3 defense than we are a stud 3-4 defense. The only STUD players we have would be solid in either formation (Harris, Rhodes, Revis). Coleman & Thomas are/were better in the 3-4 & have no place/totally useless in a 4-3. There is not one GREAT 4-3 player on this defense that has been neutralized by the 3-4.

And I don't have so much confidence in Mangini myself. I haven't written him off yet, but that doesn't mean I didn't have my share of complaints. Only thing I like about him is he is (allegedly) intelligent, so I suppose it is possible that he learns from having his past stubbornness blow up in his face.

ever think that Ellis and Drob are better suited to 4-3? Drob needs to redo

deal if he wants to stay, he will never be a playa in a 3-4.

Ellis could become a force again in 4-3, he blows in 3-4 too.

Brian thomas needs to become an ex-jet real soon

We need to draft DL like crazy this draft. I would give the 6th pick and vilma

for Allen.. Your avatar may be crazy and do this. Jared is a stud!!

He is able to make Cindy become part of turf.

[Sperm Edwards]

Whatever he once was 4 and 5 seasons ago is ancient history. Ellis is now lousy.

DRob can suck my balls. He's no stud, never was for an entire season, and never will be.

These two simply being not-as-sucky in the 4-3 doesn't mean it will make our defense good.

[Irish Jet]

ever think that Ellis and Drob are better suited to 4-3? Drob needs to redo

deal if he wants to stay, he will never be a playa in a 3-4.

Ellis could become a force again in 4-3, he blows in 3-4 too.

Brian thomas needs to become an ex-jet real soon

We need to draft DL like crazy this draft. I would give the 6th pick and vilma

for Allen.. Your avatar may be crazy and do this. Jared is a stud!!

He is able to make Cindy become part of turf.

So if you were changing to a 4-3 you would still trade Vilma???

I actually think a 3-4 can be just as effective at stopping the Pats offence. The Ravens and Chargers both run 3-4's and both really made the Pats offence struggle. We too did play well vs The Pats but Brady was just awful on that day.

IMO the key to shutting down the Pats is by getting pressure without having to bring the house (no more than 5). The Chargers and Ravens were doing a great job of disguising their blitzes and the likes of Merriman and Suggs were able to get to Brady.

IMO it's more down to talent than scheme.

[Ghost]

I would actually love this, I'm a big Vilma fan and he's a monster in this type of D.

But Mangini is a complete penis, he won't.

[Sperm Edwards]

Vilma is not a monster in any defense.

[PeterNorth09]

IF we were to switch then:

A) We would draft either Ellis or Dorsey if available no questions asked.

Harris would not be moving outside, IMO Vilma would.

C) We'd still have a horrible pass rush

I'm with Barton on this, it's too late to turn back now IMO, it would also be Mangini conceding that it was a stupid move to begin with. No way he gives up on the 3-4 now.

But it was a stupid move to begin with. You fit the scheme to the personnel, not the other way around. Sure, if Mangini still had guys like Warren, Wilfork, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Adalius Thomas then yeah the 3-4 is the right scheme to play.

Unfortunately, we live in reality world where D-Rob, Vilma, Ellis, Barton and pretty much everyone else in our front 7 is better in the 4-3.

I want to draft Gholston but if he turns out to be another bust like Bryan Thomas then our defense is seriously going to suck some big hard c*ck like it has ever since Mangini came here.

Who is tired of seeing every single running back shred the Jets defense? I am. For Pete's sake, our 3-4 defense made Kenny Watson look like an all-pro. And forget about the pass rush. Just forget it.

[PeterNorth09]

So if you were changing to a 4-3 you would still trade Vilma???

I actually think a 3-4 can be just as effective at stopping the Pats offence. The Ravens and Chargers both run 3-4's and both really made the Pats offence struggle. We too did play well vs The Pats but Brady was just awful on that day.

IMO the key to shutting down the Pats is by getting pressure without having to bring the house (no more than 5). The Chargers and Ravens were doing a great job of disguising their blitzes and the likes of Merriman and Suggs were able to get to Brady.

IMO it's more down to talent than scheme.

True, but you don't include one little fact: the Giants, the team that actually beat New England, runs a 4-3 and did a much better job of pressuring Brady.

If Mangini actually wakes up and decides to start using the 4-3 again the Jets would be dumb to trade Vilma. Vilma could start at MLB next year and get 100+ tackles. Harris could move to OLB (much more realistic than Vilma playing ILB) and still be a beast and the other OLB could be Barton or the Jets could draft another LB to start there.

But who cares, nothing is more fun than watching any RB maul our defense on a weekly basis.

[Sperm Edwards]

True, but you don't include one little fact: the Giants, the team that actually beat New England, runs a 4-3 and did a much better job of pressuring Brady.

If Mangini actually wakes up and decides to start using the 4-3 again the Jets would be dumb to trade Vilma. Vilma could start at MLB next year and get 100+ tackles. Harris could move to OLB (much more realistic than Vilma playing ILB) and still be a beast and the other OLB could be Barton or the Jets could draft another LB to start there.

But who cares, nothing is more fun than watching any RB maul our defense on a weekly basis.

Our defense held NE in check more than the Giants defense did. We lost b/c Clemens spotted them 7 points like 1 second into the game & Pennington is incapable of putting points on the board. Both of NE's >50-pt games came vs 4-3 defenses.

Bringing pressure is what did it & the surprise of so MUCH pressure did it. But not because of how many people rushing had a hand in the dirt & how many started from an upright stance.

[PeterNorth09]

Our defense held NE in check more than the Giants defense did. We lost b/c Clemens spotted them 7 points like 1 second into the game & Pennington is incapable of putting points on the board. Both of NE's >50-pt games came vs 4-3 defenses.

Bringing pressure is what did it & the surprise of so MUCH pressure did it. But not because of how many people rushing had a hand in the dirt & how many started from an upright stance.

True, but the weather had more to do with that. The wind was bothering Brady all day. It would have been a low scoring game no matter what.

The Pats still torched our defense in week 1.

[Sperm Edwards]

True, but the weather had more to do with that. The wind was bothering Brady all day. It would have been a low scoring game no matter what.

The Pats still torched our defense in week 1.

Look - I've been plenty critical of Mangini & both of his incompetent coordinators. But they played a solid game on defense, as the did against Pittsburgh. That wasn't the only game all season where NE played in bad weather. I'll give them credit for it.