Ray Rice

[Villain The Foe]

You are a f*cking brick wall. The new madmike, a guy who once argued with me ferociously that Chad Pennington is better than Drew Brees. Once I got the bolded part, I stopped reading. Sorry you went through all that typing. 28 year old running back Ray Rice and his 2,000+ career touches is "young". Yeah, in life years. In running back years? He's close to cashing in that social security. I'm done.

So all of a sudden, looking at the possibility of signing Ray Rice is like saying that Penny is better than Brees???? I would say shut up but you just bowed out of the convo and thats a good thing. No need to be sorry for all my typing. I'll accept your bow out. 

[The Troll]

So all of a sudden, looking to sign Ray Rice is like saying that Penny is better than Brees???? I would say shut up but you just bowed out of the convo and thats a good thing. No need to be sorry for all my typing. I'll accept your bow out.

Not just Ray Rice. Just a combo of your ridiculously strong, incredibly wrong opinions about everything football reminds me of the dear departed madmikes and PeterNorth's of the world. With some Ecurb thrown in for good measure.

[Villain The Foe]

Not just Ray Rice. Just a combo of your ridiculously strong, incredibly wrong opinions about everything football reminds me of the dear departed madmikes and PeterNorth's of the world. With some Ecurb thrown in for good measure.

So my opinion is wrong because it doesnt vibe with your opinion? I didnt know that this is the way that you can determine wrong opinions from right ones. You remind me of a person that likes to call people loons yet listen to everything the Soap Opera media dishes out and would sign Aaron Hernandez straight outta jail (your words). 

 

Im incredibly strong not his because I dont feel that you've presented anything to back up your opinion, and I'm not talking about him being possibly washed up. He probably is. I also gave you credit in the very beginning about C J Spiller being a possible good signing. Your problem is that you want people to take all of your opinion just like you take all of that soap opera gossip, and thats not what I do. You said you dont listen to the garbage yet everything you said (Tim Tebow comparison) shows that you do. You talk about players not wanting Rice in the locker room, but if he's a good team mate and works hard then what are you talking about if not about the gossip? You then turn around and pretend like you dont care about it, but you do it in a way that only reconfirms to the people that can read through the bullsh*t that you do, yet you can't admit it. 

 

 

Lets do this. Because I know when I can be too strong minded for a person. 

 

You're right Troll and I was wrong. Ray Rice could very well be washed up given that he could have just ran behind Yanda all of 2013. Me even thinking that there's a possibility that Rice could have something left in him makes me a loon, a person who thinks Pennington is better than Brees and it would be as stupid a signing as when we signed Tim Tebow. Im also sorry for the soap opera comments, my intention was to show that it was less of me being a loon and more you being a follower of soap operas, but obviously you've shown me that its me that is fact the loon here. And whenever Aaron Hernandez is released from Jail, please let me be part of your thread that you make when asking Tanny to please "sign this beast". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol. 

[The Troll]

So my opinion is wrong because it doesnt vibe with your opinion? I didnt know that this is the way that you can determine wrong opinions from right ones. You remind me of a person that likes to call people loons yet listen to everything the Soap Opera media dishes out and would sign Aaron Hernandez straight outta jail (your words). 

 

Im incredibly strong not his because I dont feel that you've presented anything to back up your opinion, and I'm not talking about him being possibly washed up. He probably is. I also gave you credit in the very beginning about C J Spiller being a possible good signing. Your problem is that you want people to take all of your opinion just like you take all of that soap opera gossip, and thats not what I do. You said you dont listen to the garbage yet everything you said (Tim Tebow comparison) shows that you do. You talk about players not wanting Rice in the locker room, but if he's a good team mate and works hard then what are you talking about if not about the gossip? You then turn around and pretend like you dont care about it, but you do it in a way that only reconfirms to the people that can read through the bullsh*t that you do, yet you can't admit it. 

 

 

Lets do this. Because I know when I can be too strong minded for a person. 

 

You're right Troll and I was wrong. Ray Rice could very well be washed up given that he could have just ran behind Yanda all of 2013. Me even thinking that there's a possibility that Rice could have something left in him makes me a loon, a person who thinks Pennington is better than Brees and it would be as stupid a signing as when we signed Tim Tebow. Im also sorry for the soap opera comments, my intention was to show that it was less of me being a loon and more you being a follower of soap operas, but obviously you've shown me that its me that is fact the loon here. And whenever Aaron Hernandez is released from Jail, please let me be part of your thread that you make when asking Tanny to please "sign this beast". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol. 

Judging by the fact that you've been here for three years, have 5,000 posts, and only 400 points of rep, I would say I am far from alone in my assessment of you. I get the feeling you don't even believe half the sh*t you type yourself.

 

If acquitted, yes, I would rather have Hernandez than Rice. Hernandez isn't a running back with 2,000 plus touches and a 400 touch season under his belt. You do know what acquitted is, right? It means not guilty. Which is the opposite of what Rice is. I know. I've seen a video. It's a moot point, however, as Hernandez is guilty as sh*t and will be found that way. It was just an extreme way of illustrating to you that I'm not buying into your stupid "fake soap opera" argument. The thing about the soap opera is that it goes away if the player is both reformed and successful. The odds of Rice coming here, bringing with him the soap opera and the distraction, and then going out and being another Maurice Jones-Drew is high. Then, it's just the Jets being the same old stupid Jets and being a laughingstock in lieu of getting a few backpage headlines and segments on Pardon the Interruption. I don't care about that sh*t if the player can play. I don't think Rice can, and he's a running back, for Christ's sake. They grow on trees, basically.

 

You are a f*cking loon. This Ray Rice thing just adds to the resume. I wish you weren't on Team Glennon so maybe more posters would take him seriously, because I think when a lot of people see you endorsing something, if they don't have much knowledge of the subject, they automatically assume that the opposite of what you say must be true.

[Villain The Foe]

Judging by the fact that you've been here for two years, have 5,000 posts, and only 400 points of rep, I would say I am far from alone in my assessment of you. I get the feeling you don't even believe half the sh*t you type yourself.

 

If acquitted, yes, I would rather have Hernandez than Rice. Hernandez isn't a running back with 2,000 plus touches and a 400 touch season under his belt. You do know what acquitted is, right? It means not guilty. Which is the opposite of what Rice is. I know. I've seen a video. It's a moot point, however, as Hernandez is guilty as sh*t and will be found that way. It was just an extreme way of illustrating to you that I'm not buying into your stupid "fake soap opera" argument. The thing about the soap opera is that it goes away if the player is both reformed and successful. The odds of Rice coming here, bringing with him the soap opera and the distraction, and then going out and being another Maurice Jones-Drew is high. Then, it's just the Jets being the same old stupid Jets and being a laughingstock in lieu of getting a few backpage headlines and segments on Pardon the Interruption. I don't care about that sh*t if the player can play. I don't think Rice can, and he's a running back, for Christ's sake. They grow on trees, basically.

 

You are a f*cking loon. This Ray Rice thing just adds to the resume. I wish you weren't on Team Glennon so maybe more posters would take him seriously, because I think when a lot of people see you endorsing something, if they don't have much knowledge of the subject, they automatically assume that the opposite of what you say must be true.

Now you're just hurting my feelings! lmao! 

 

 

Its crazy to see how much of a rise I'm getting out of you right now. You call me a loon yet I'm in complete control of your feelings...kinda like how the soap opera gossip has them. 

You keep telling me about what  you dont care about but the heat behind your words tells me that YOU'RE LYING. Feeling the need to disrespect me by calling me a loon tells me that you're lying too because you're not able to control yourself without getting aggressive. 

For the record, Im laughing at you while I'm creating my gifs of Glennon over here. lol.

[The Troll]

Now you're just hurting my feelings! lmao! 

 

 

Its crazy to see how much of a rise I'm getting out of you right now. You call me a loon yet I'm in complete control of your feelings...kinda like how the soap opera gossip has them. 

You keep telling me about what  you dont care about but the heat behind your words tells me that YOU'RE LYING. Feeling the need to disrespect me by calling me a loon tells me that you're lying too because you're not able to control yourself without getting aggressive. 

For the record, Im laughing at you while I'm creating my gifs of Glennon over here. lol.

What heat behind my words? Have you ever read a post by me that wasn't directed at you? 90% of my posts are in the same manner.

 

I'm not disrespecting you by calling you a loon. Would it be disrespectful to call Ted Bundy a murderer or to call Tom Brady an ass-chinned faggot? People are what they are. I call it like I see it.

[Villain The Foe]

What heat behind my words? Have you ever read a post by me that wasn't directed at you? 90% of my posts are in the same manner.

 

I'm not disrespecting you by calling you a loon. Would it be disrespectful to call Ted Bundy a murderer or to call Tom Brady an ass-chinned faggot? People are what they are. I call it like I see it.

Sorry for the wait, Im handling my Gifs but it wasnt like you were going anywhere anyway. I got your total attention. 

 

Alot of people calls things the way they see it over the internet. Im just saying that I dont think you're that disrespectful generally. I can figure that given your examples. The other two people you have never and most likely will never meet, so there's no consequence in calling Ted Bundy a murderer or Brady a faggot. Your examples keeps your "calling it as you see it" as convenient as doing it over the net. This statement and action is "simple minded", something a child would say. I didnt notice the tendencies until today. The deep following of soap opera's and now "calling things as you see it". Dude, Im actually going to stop laughing at you, because if you're not a teenager but an actual adult then you have more problems than I do trying to get these Glennon Gifs together. 

[The Troll]

Sorry for the wait, Im handling my Gifs but it wasnt like you were going anywhere anyway. I got your total attention.

Alot of people calls things the way they see it over the internet. Im just saying that I dont think you're that disrespectful generally. I can figure that given your examples. The other two people you have never and most likely will never meet, so there's no consequence in calling Ted Bundy a murderer or Brady a faggot. Your examples keeps your "calling it as you see it" as convenient as doing it over the net. This statement and action is "simple minded", something a child would say. I didnt notice the tendencies until today. The deep following of soap opera's and now "calling things as you see it". Dude, Im actually going to stop laughing at you, because if you're not a teenager but an actual adult then you have more problems than I do trying to get these Glennon Gifs together.

Lol, my arguments are cliche, he says, right as he breaks out "You're an Internet tough guy" and "You must be a teenager".

[Villain The Foe]

Lol, my arguments are cliche, he says, right as he breaks out "You're an Internet tough guy" and "You must be a teenager".

Look at what you're writing, I'm simply calling it as I see it (lol). Difference is, I'm talking about the info at hand, and not disrespecting your character. Look at what you're writing, all because I think considering Ray Rice would be nice. 

 

Not being able to accept others opinions, another immature trait. Im telling you, you're in rare form tonight bro. 

[The Troll]

Look at what you're writing, I'm simply calling it as I see it. Difference is, I'm talking about the info at hand, and not disrespecting your character. Look at what you're writing.

So, people that are lunatics have no character? The .0000001% liberal in me is highly offended.

Alas, you are right. I would not call you a loon to your face if you walked up to me jabbering about how the Jets need Ray Rice. There are no terms of service in real life so I would call you something that rhymes with "rucking fetard".

[Villain The Foe]

So, people that are lunatics have no character? The .0000001% liberal in me is highly offended.

Alas, you are right. I would not call you a loon to your face if you walked up to me jabbering about how the Jets need Ray Rice. There are no terms of service in real life so I would call you something that rhymes with "rucking fetard".

In real life I only call people certain things based on the relationship I have with them. I wouldnt call you a ******* retard to your face if I was in front of you right now because I dont know you like that to get that comfortable. Thats just proper etiquette.

 

None the less, your approach to people as well as your lack of accepting others opinion based on your influences of soap opera gossip tends to lead conversations in unusual directions such as the one we're in now. 

 

Im going to get back on Ray Rice now because nothing at all will come out of this current subject so why even entertain it, you're simply trolling as a defense. 

[joewilly12]

Jeez I went out to dinner and drinks and this is still going on....................

[The Troll]

In real life I only call people certain things based on the relationship I have with them. I wouldnt call you a ******* retard to your face if I was in front of you right now because I dont know you like that to get that comfortable. Thats just proper etiquette.

None the less, your approach to people as well as your lack of accepting others opinion based on your influences of soap opera gossip tends to lead conversations in unusual directions such as the one we're in now.

Im going to get back on Ray Rice now because nothing at all will come out of this current subject so why even entertain it, you're simply trolling as a defense.

Don't accuse me of trolling whenever you keep using the soap opera gossip #hashtag to blatantly troll me.

[joewilly12]

Don't accuse me of trolling whenever you keep using the soap opera gossip #hashtag to blatantly troll me.

Will you grow up Villain The Foe has been posting good stuff you not so much

[The Troll]

Will you grow up Villain The Foe has been posting good stuff you not so much

Lol, yes, because he is literally the only other person on the site that agrees with you.

[joewilly12]

Lol, yes, because he is literally the only other person on the site that agrees with you.

I dont give a damn who agrees with me or not. So you are ok with the Jets running game?  Currently Ivory and who?  

[The Troll]

I dont give a damn who agrees with me or not. So you are ok with the Jets running game? Currently Ivory and who?

Maybe you should read my posts. I already said Spiller earlier in this thread. And they can be found on the third day of the draft. It's not Ray Rice or bust.

[docdhc]

_{It is hard to believe everyone is fighting over this and making it so personal.  It seems obvious that if Ray Rice were one of the best RB's in the league, like the 2011 version, he might be worth the PR nightmare and sideshow that he would become.  If he is mediocre or plain bad because he is on the downside of his career he wouldn't.  So the argument boils down to whether he is likely to be any good anymore and could you get someone just as good with less baggage.  I think the odds are he won't be that good considering  the history of RB life spans in the NFL based on age and usage. I also think you can get someone like CJ Spiller who could provide the same production without the headache that goes with it. I agree that once a player does his time according to the legal system and NFL rules he deserves to get a second chance but the nature of his offense is so distasteful that you better make sure he is worth it and I think it is far from a sure thing that he would be.  People who think he is worth the risk because he might still be close to the player he was, I can understand your position, I just disagree.  Not sure why the people on either side of the debate need to attack each other so personally about it.}

[operaguy]

I dont give a damn who agrees with me or not. So you are ok with the Jets running game?  Currently Ivory and who?  

Ivory and Adrian, but not the Adrian you're thinking of.  I'm thinking we need to bring back Adrian Murrell.  I mean T-dog Bowles was over in Arz so maybe he is close with Murrell...

Also because he was over at WVU maybe he has some familiarity with Geno!

[Villain The Foe]

Don't accuse me of trolling whenever you keep using the soap opera gossip #hashtag to blatantly troll me.

Soap Opera Gossip is what you pay attention to and are so concerned about. You're concerned about it so much that you think that it would be as big a circus as Tim Tebow and that the players wouldnt accept him in the locker room. These are your words. You've never been in the locker room yourself, how do you know these things, and to then pass this off as to why my opinions are wrong. Calling people a f'ing loon and a f'ing retard because they dont agree with your attachment to gossip is trolling, watching you support your entire opinion based on soap opera garbage and turn around and say you dont care about soap opera garbage is simply "not" telling it like it is, which is something you say you do on the reg given your "calling it like it is" status. 

 

You got so beside yourself that you began type stuff like this, even showing that you're even overly concerned what people think based on my possible influence on a subject. 

 

 

 

You are a f*cking loon. This Ray Rice thing just adds to the resume. I wish you weren't on Team Glennon so maybe more posters would take him seriously, because I think when a lot of people see you endorsing something, if they don't have much knowledge of the subject, they automatically assume that the opposite of what you say must be true.

 

Wish I weren't on Team Glennon??? What does that even mean man? lmao! 

 

You're concerned about the subject because you think that if people see that I am a fan of Glennon that people wouldnt take him seriously....like a circus 

Similarly to your concerns about the Jets and Ray Rice. You think that if Rice is a Jet that people can't take your team serious...and therefore can't take you seriously.

 

As a side note, I didnt even know that there was a team Glennon. Never received a membership or anything. Didnt even know my support was indirectly sending shade over to the "Team Glennon" guys. Maybe you guys should make Gifs like me instead of just calling people loons and retards because you're pissed that someone who wasnt speaking to you in the first place is disagreeing with you. Maybe if you put more effort into "Team Glennon" then my fandom of him wont overshadow your guys work and you wont feel so insecure about it. How many people are in Team Glennon anyway, and if I'm already in it, then what position do I hold? 

[RutgersJetFan]

So, this thread is going well.

[drdetroit]

Ray Rice is done and he's a giant ass-wipe. Amazing how people don't want lynch but they want the washed up wife beater.

He'll be a Giant or Patriot next September.

[The Troll]

Soap Opera Gossip is what you pay attention to and are so concerned about. You're concerned about it so much that you think that it would be as big a circus as Tim Tebow and that the players wouldnt accept him in the locker room. These are your words. You've never been in the locker room yourself, how do you know these things, and to then pass this off as to why my opinions are wrong. Calling people a f'ing loon and a f'ing retard because they dont agree with your attachment to gossip is trolling, watching you support your entire opinion based on soap opera garbage and turn around and say you dont care about soap opera garbage is simply "not" telling it like it is, which is something you say you do on the reg given your "calling it like it is" status.

You got so beside yourself that you began type stuff like this, even showing that you're even overly concerned what people think based on my possible influence on a subject.

Wish I weren't on Team Glennon??? What does that even mean man? lmao!

You're concerned about the subject because you think that if people see that I am a fan of Glennon that people wouldnt take him seriously....like a circus

Similarly to your concerns about the Jets and Ray Rice. You think that if Rice is a Jet that people can't take your team serious...and therefore can't take you seriously.

As a side note, I didnt even know that there was a team Glennon. Never received a membership or anything. Didnt even know my support was indirectly sending shade over to the "Team Glennon" guys. Maybe you guys should make Gifs like me instead of just calling people loons and retards because you're pissed that someone who wasnt speaking to you in the first place is disagreeing with you. Maybe if you put more effort into "Team Glennon" then my fandom of him wont overshadow your guys work and you wont feel so insecure about it. How many people are in Team Glennon anyway, and if I'm already in it, then what position do I hold?

Geez, who's the one riled up, Tolstoy? Can I have the Cliff Notes version, please?

Here's where we differ, as I don't think you understand. I personally do not care what Rice, Vick, Hernandez, Gordon, whoever did as long as said player can help the New York Jets. With these players comes baggage. That is a fact. It can not be disputed. And when a player with baggage does well, things are quickly forgiven. When they do poorly, it is something that can quickly torpedo a season. I believe Rice is done as an effective NFL player and want nothing to do with him or any of the "soap opera gossip" that comes with him. That you are too blind to see that signing the most controversial player will be a distraction indeed makes you a loon. And, yes, I'd imagine a few guys in the locker room would have issue with signing a washed up wife beater.

[Villain The Foe]

Geez, who's the one riled up, Tolstoy? Can I have the Cliff Notes version, please?

Here's where we differ, as I don't think you understand. I personally do not care what Rice, Vick, Hernandez, Gordon, whoever did as long as said player can help the New York Jets. With these players comes baggage. That is a fact. It can not be disputed. And when a player with baggage does well, things are quickly forgiven. When they do poorly, it is something that can quickly torpedo a season. I believe Rice is done as an effective NFL player and want nothing to do with him or any of the "soap opera gossip" that comes with him. That you are too blind to see that signing the most controversial player will be a distraction indeed makes you a loon. And, yes, I'd imagine a few guys in the locker room would have issue with signing a washed up wife beater.

This is just stupid. 

 

 

Just say that you prefer not to have Rice because he's washed up. The "distraction to a locker room" and "most controversial player" position is pointless. Richie Incognito actually did something to a teammate and he was able to land a gig. 

 

I guess Greg Hardy would be a distraction too right? No way in the world the Jets or any other team would want that potential circus.  

[joewilly12]

The Jets have won so much and lead the league in everything including character players and coaches who needs Ray Rice last time I checked this league is about winning anyway you need to do it

 

New England won the Super Bowl anyway they could 

[bealeb319]

I would much rather see us get Todd Gurley in the draft I think pairing him up with ivory would be dangerous.

[drdetroit]

This is just stupid.

Just say that you prefer not to have Rice because he's washed up. The "distraction to a locker room" and "most controversial player" position is pointless. Richie Incognito actually did something to a teammate and he was able to land a gig.

I guess Greg Hardy would be a distraction too right? No way in the world the Jets or any other team would want that potential circus.

WTF are you talking about Greg Hardy is actually a good player. Ray Rice was done before he got caught beating his crazy wife in the elevator. If Rice is so good why doesn't john Harbaugh want him back.

I'm amazed that this is even a debate. Rice was clearly done 2 years ago. Let him go beat his wife in New England or on the giants payroll.

[joewilly12]

WTF are you talking about Greg Hardy is actually a good player. Ray Rice was done before he got caught beating his crazy wife in the elevator. If Rice is so good why doesn't john Harbaugh want him back.

I'm amazed that this is even a debate. Rice was clearly done 2 years ago. Let him go beat his wife in New England or on the giants payroll.

Who do you like?  You dont want Rice or Harvin then who? 

[drdetroit]

Who do you like? You dont want Rice or Harvin then who?

What are you talking about I want Harvin back. Ray rice sucks some of you guys need to be in less than 5 fantasy leagues and actually start watching the games again instead

[joewilly12]

What are you talking about I want Harvin back. Ray rice sucks some of you guys need to be in less than 5 fantasy leagues and actually start watching the games again instead

Ray Rice sucked behind a very bad offensive line in Baltimore and on an offense where Flacco threw the ball over 75% of the snaps he has fresh legs and is a good pass catching RB 

 

If we are drafting Melvin Gordon at 6 then I'm ok with the RB position as we stand I'm not 

[Villain The Foe]

WTF are you talking about Greg Hardy is actually a good player. Ray Rice was done before he got caught beating his crazy wife in the elevator. If Rice is so good why doesn't john Harbaugh want him back.

I'm amazed that this is even a debate. Rice was clearly done 2 years ago. Let him go beat his wife in New England or on the giants payroll.

Im talking about the possibly of the coach and GM not agreeing with your "clarity". Thats what I'm talking about. 

[drdetroit]

Ray Rice sucked behind a very bad offensive line in Baltimore and on an offense where Flacco threw the ball over 75% of the snaps he has fresh legs and is a good pass catching RB

If we are drafting Melvin Gordon at 6 then I'm ok with the RB position as we stand I'm not

Rice is not the answer you can scapegoat the OL all you want he got a ton of carries at Rutgers and a lot of carries the first several years of his career. He's done plus he's morally worse than Vick.

[drdetroit]

Im talking about the possibly of the coach and GM not agreeing with your "clarity". Thats what I'm talking about.

This is the Vick garbage all over again. A big name nobody wants and people think if he puts on a jet uniform it will be 2010 all over again.

[Villain The Foe]

This is the Vick garbage all over again. A big name nobody wants and people think if he puts on a jet uniform it will be 2010 all over again.

No its not, Vick had shown that his ability had diminished over multiple seasons, even losing his job to a back up Nick Foles before being released by his team for talent reasons. 

 

Show me where that happened to Ray Rice. And when I say "Show me", I dont mean go on a rant on how you dont feel like its worth signing him for whatever personal reason. I mean really....show me where Ray Rice had a legit offensive line and he couldn't get it done for multiple years, then at the end of the year the Ravens decided to release him. Show me where he lost his starting spot to Bernard Pierce because Pierce was obviously a better back at that point. 

 

If you can show me something thats even 50% similar to Mike Vick then I'll shut up. You say these things, but we both know you can't back it up. The only thing that you can show me is that Ray Rice had one bad rushing year behind the worst rushing offensive line in football. Thats all you can do. That doesnt establish some sort of clarity about Ray's rushing ability as much as it does the line that was being manhandled the entire year. Be serious here. Im not saying for you to agree with me, thats really not the point here. But Ray Rice is NOT Michael Vick. Michael Vick had Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, McCoy and couldn't get it done, then when he got injured we seen a back up take his job and do exactly what Vick couldn't do. <<<That my friend is clearly seeing that a guy is done. 

 

I didnt see Bernard Pierce out perform Ray Rice in rushing in 2013. Bernard Pierce went from playing in all 16 games in 2012, averaging 4.9 yards per carry to playing all 16 games in 2013, had almost 50 more rushes in 2013 than the year prior, yet his per carry average went from 5 yards per carry in 2012 to 2.9 in 2013. 2.9 YARDS PER CARRY. Pierce lost 2 whole yards per carry running behind that same offensive line that Ray Rice had a hard time rushing behind. Maybe Bernard Pierce is washed up too, because it could NEVER be the fact that their rush blocking was rated the worst in the league right?  

 

You guys really make me shake my head with the stubbornness. Im waiting for at least one of you guys to say something factual with your opinion like, "maybe it was the line, but I still dont want him". That statement I could run with, because its showing a personal preference. But talking about his lack of ability as being somehow, "clear to see" just shows that you guys dont know what the hell you're talking about. 

[joewilly12]

Villian The Foe let it go if you were posting from the basement of an abandoned building in Detroit you might feel the same way.