faba Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Snow Causes 86-Car Pileup on Mich. Highway By Associated Press document.write(getElapsed("20060213T161536Z"));1 hour agoUPDATED 55 MINUTES AGO MUSKEGON, Mich. - An intense snow squall cut visibility nearly to zero and caused an 86-vehicle chain reaction pileup, stacking cars four deep on an icy western Michigan freeway and injuring 25 people. No one suffered life-threatening injuries, police said Monday. Some vehicles caught fire and one woman panicked, witness Laurie Devries said. "Her car was on fire and she couldn't get out so she just passed the baby through the window," Devries said. "We kind of got him up to the hill and helped some other people out of their car." The series of wrecks started Sunday afternoon when the lake-effect squall created whiteout conditions on a low-lying section of U.S. 31 along the Lake Michigan shore, said Muskegon Director of Public Safety Tony Kleibecker. Cars were stacked four deep for about 300 yards, Fire Department Battalion Chief Mark Johnson said. "It looked like they played pinball off the side guardrail," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Muskegon's on the other side of the state, at the base of the pinky. GOB's over by the base of the thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Muskegon's on the other side of the state, at the base of the pinky. GOB's over by the base of the thumb. Funny Faba I was just reading about that online. You know Jerry is a true Michigander, he uses the hand terminology to explain locations within MI. Faba if u think that crash was bad, a few years ago on I-96 near Lansing, they had a 230+ car pileup with 2 fatalities. I just had an Accident Investigation class last week, I wouldn't even know where to start. The ffunny part is I'd bet the Michigan State Police issued everyone of them a ticket for something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Funny Faba I was just reading about that online. You know Jerry is a true Michigander, he uses the hand terminology to explain locations within MI. Faba if u think that crash was bad, a few years ago on I-96 near Lansing, they had a 230+ car pileup with 2 fatalities. I just had an Accident Investigation class last week, I wouldn't even know where to start. The ffunny part is I'd bet the Michigan State Police issued everyone of them a ticket for something There you go with ticket quotas again- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 There you go with ticket quotas again- Ask any police administrator about that and they'll call then "Performance Standards", because Quotas are illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Ask any police administrator about that and they'll call then "Performance Standards", because Quotas are illegal I got a question about that for ya GOB, and not at all trying to be a ****. In all seriousness, does it bother you (or do you think it bothers any other cops) to write some hard working stiff a ticket that they know he can barely afford for something that they probably would have let slide on any other day, or do they just say "screw 'em, I have my "performance standards" to meet" Again, not trying to be a smartass or cop basher, ( I was a cop in the AF myself but we didn't have to write a certain number of tickets because there was no financial gain for the squadron) just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I got a question about that for ya GOB, and not at all trying to be a ****. In all seriousness, does it bother you (or do you think it bothers any other cops) to write some hard working stiff a ticket that they know he can barely afford for something that they probably would have let slide on any other day, or do they just say "screw 'em, I have my "performance standards" to meet" Again, not trying to be a smartass or cop basher, ( I was a cop in the AF myself but we didn't have to write a certain number of tickets because there was no financial gain for the squadron) just curious. Honest question bro. Yes, at times when I have to write tickets it bothers me greatly. Here's my personal view on tickets for what it is worth. There are plenty of people in my line of work, on my shift no less, who absolutely love to go out and hammer people. They do it for a number of reasons: 1) To get their rocks off and feel 'powerful' and/or 2) They're too afraid to do real policework so they look to pull over soccer moms and middle aged adults all day and deal with people they consider 'safe' and/or 3) They are assigned to the traffic bereau and MUST write tickets because that's what they're their to do and they'll get in trouble if they don't. (I can't knock #3, it's their job requirement) I am not a big ticket writer for the sake of writing tickets, but that said there are times when I don't lose an ounce of sleep doing it. Those are times like the guy/gal speeding like an idiot (My threshold starts at 15 over on surface streets and 20 on the freeway, I think that's fair), the guy/gal who absolutely ridiulously runs a red light (A national past time in my neck of the woods - MI is #1 in the nation) or that guy/gal that is driving in such a manner where even if you're not a cop, you utter the words "Man If I was a cop I'd nail his ass" or "Where are hell are the cops when you need them?" Those are what I call 'impulse tickets', something where when I see them I get so P.O'd that I make it my mission to get them. Then of course there are the 'get one to get one and make the boss happy tickets, when you know your count (Affectionately called 'performance standards' by my bosses) is low and you need a few to make the boss happy. Quotas are illegal but Performance Standards aren't - you figure it out. :Cuss: Typically I see enough of the jerkoff drivers that deserve one that I rarely have to 'make up', and look for the guy driving home from work after a rough day who just got lazy with his speedometer. With everything said, I'm still a very lenient guy when it comes to both 'style' of tickets I write. If one of the guys/gals who did a bone head move has a good driving record, or I can honestly see that they just had something on their mind, I'm apt to knock the ticket down or make it something that doesn't appear on a driving record. When it comes to the one who just happend to be the unlucky guy in my quest to keep the bosses happy, I give waay too many breaks. Those are the guys with the good driving records, the guy who I know I probably wouldn't pull over if I didn't need to get a few tickets. Sometimes I head inside at the end of the night with my warnings outnumbering my tickets 4 to 1. If I don't give a warning, I'll usually find some chicken $hit minor infraction to write instead. Something like a $25/0 pts No Proof of Insurance ticket, or even worse, a waivable violation like an unsigned registration. You can tell right away from the nature of their violation, to the way they act/talk towards you, then their driving record if they derseve a break, which 99 times out of 100 I give them. So to answer your question, here is the case where I hate writing the 'everyday guy' who might have fouled up that day and accordingly, I give them a break. Of course there are times where I MUST write tickets and have no option whether I like it or not. Instances like traffic details (Watching a stop sign because all the neighbors are complaining to the chief that everyone runs it), or Overtime Traffic Details which again are usually in response to citizens complaining. This is where you run into the "can't make everyone happy" scenario. For example - when I work Drunk Driving details, typically 11p-5am, my 'performance standard' is 1 Drunk Driver arrest or 18 contacts with at least 15 violations written!! If I don't do either/or I will be banned from future OT details. While I don't like it I'm can't afford to be banned from OT. Typically when I work these details and run into someone I would usually give a break to, I tell them to 'set a court date' and cut them some sort of break at court. So between these instances and the obvious good guy that made an honest mistake, yes I hate writing them and will avoid it if I can. With all that said, you'd be amazed what I let go. I mean people with suspended license, that I should arrest. Then there are the people who talk their way into tickets. 2 weeks ago I write a guy 5 over even thought he was doing 20 over. He proceeds to tell me that it's guys like me that cause people not to vote for police millages, etc etc. I took the ticket out of his hand and ammended it back to 20 over. Have a nice day. So yes I hate writing tickets to the 'less fortunate' or the average good driver who messed up and will frequently give a break. But when it comes to the absolute menaces to the road way, I love every minute of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 GOB, I don't know if you take requests, but here's who needs a ticket.... People who turn left into the far lane. When there's a center left turn lane, and I'm turning left into 2 lanes, I turn into the FIRST lane then immediately signal to the right one. But some a## behind me flies to the right lane to pass before I can get over. When you see people do this, I'd like you to to lay waste to them. Shoot if necessary. --- A close second would be last-minute mergers. Dont get me started about them. As for using one's body for giving directions in Michigan...I suppose Floridians could do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If I may add to the hit list. The people who drive the speed limit or just under the speed limit in the left hand lane. What the hell are we supposed to do? You're not supposed to pass them on the right but they won't freaking get over. Those are the moments when I tell myself that I wish I was a cop for just a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 What do I do when I get pulled over with 47 pounds of Hash in the trunk and they want to seasch the car ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Honest question bro. Yes, at times when I have to write tickets it bothers me greatly. Here's my personal view on tickets for what it is worth. There are plenty of people in my line of work, on my shift no less, who absolutely love to go out and hammer people. They do it for a number of reasons: 1) To get their rocks off and feel 'powerful' and/or 2) They're too afraid to do real policework so they look to pull over soccer moms and middle aged adults all day and deal with people they consider 'safe' and/or 3) They are assigned to the traffic bereau and MUST write tickets because that's what they're their to do and they'll get in trouble if they don't. (I can't knock #3, it's their job requirement) I am not a big ticket writer for the sake of writing tickets, but that said there are times when I don't lose an ounce of sleep doing it. Those are times like the guy/gal speeding like an idiot (My threshold starts at 15 over on surface streets and 20 on the freeway, I think that's fair), the guy/gal who absolutely ridiulously runs a red light (A national past time in my neck of the woods - MI is #1 in the nation) or that guy/gal that is driving in such a manner where even if you're not a cop, you utter the words "Man If I was a cop I'd nail his ass" or "Where are hell are the cops when you need them?" Those are what I call 'impulse tickets', something where when I see them I get so P.O'd that I make it my mission to get them. Then of course there are the 'get one to get one and make the boss happy tickets, when you know your count (Affectionately called 'performance standards' by my bosses) is low and you need a few to make the boss happy. Quotas are illegal but Performance Standards aren't - you figure it out. :Cuss: Typically I see enough of the jerkoff drivers that deserve one that I rarely have to 'make up', and look for the guy driving home from work after a rough day who just got lazy with his speedometer. With everything said, I'm still a very lenient guy when it comes to both 'style' of tickets I write. If one of the guys/gals who did a bone head move has a good driving record, or I can honestly see that they just had something on their mind, I'm apt to knock the ticket down or make it something that doesn't appear on a driving record. When it comes to the one who just happend to be the unlucky guy in my quest to keep the bosses happy, I give waay too many breaks. Those are the guys with the good driving records, the guy who I know I probably wouldn't pull over if I didn't need to get a few tickets. Sometimes I head inside at the end of the night with my warnings outnumbering my tickets 4 to 1. If I don't give a warning, I'll usually find some chicken $hit minor infraction to write instead. Something like a $25/0 pts No Proof of Insurance ticket, or even worse, a waivable violation like an unsigned registration. You can tell right away from the nature of their violation, to the way they act/talk towards you, then their driving record if they derseve a break, which 99 times out of 100 I give them. So to answer your question, here is the case where I hate writing the 'everyday guy' who might have fouled up that day and accordingly, I give them a break. Of course there are times where I MUST write tickets and have no option whether I like it or not. Instances like traffic details (Watching a stop sign because all the neighbors are complaining to the chief that everyone runs it), or Overtime Traffic Details which again are usually in response to citizens complaining. This is where you run into the "can't make everyone happy" scenario. For example - when I work Drunk Driving details, typically 11p-5am, my 'performance standard' is 1 Drunk Driver arrest or 18 contacts with at least 15 violations written!! If I don't do either/or I will be banned from future OT details. While I don't like it I'm can't afford to be banned from OT. Typically when I work these details and run into someone I would usually give a break to, I tell them to 'set a court date' and cut them some sort of break at court. So between these instances and the obvious good guy that made an honest mistake, yes I hate writing them and will avoid it if I can. With all that said, you'd be amazed what I let go. I mean people with suspended license, that I should arrest. Then there are the people who talk their way into tickets. 2 weeks ago I write a guy 5 over even thought he was doing 20 over. He proceeds to tell me that it's guys like me that cause people not to vote for police millages, etc etc. I took the ticket out of his hand and ammended it back to 20 over. Have a nice day. So yes I hate writing tickets to the 'less fortunate' or the average good driver who messed up and will frequently give a break. But when it comes to the absolute menaces to the road way, I love every minute of it. Thanks for the reply GOB, nice insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 i had one of those incidents a few months back, at the end of the month. Cop pulled me for 6 over, and it ended up getting dismissed or whatever in court, but its good to know some cops dont enjoy that. I had been under the impression for a while now that it was an enjoyable thing, so thanks GOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 i had one of those incidents a few months back, at the end of the month. Cop pulled me for 6 over, and it ended up getting dismissed or whatever in court, but its good to know some cops dont enjoy that. I had been under the impression for a while now that it was an enjoyable thing, so thanks GOB. 6 over? Any cop that pulls someone over for 6 over needs an exam. Honestly here's my rationale - I'm not going to be a hyprocrite out there. I do at least 10 over on surface streets and 15 over on freeways off-duty, so why should I ding someone else for doing what I do too? Thus the 15/20 over thresholds I have. I wear my seat belt off-duty religiously but just can't wear on in the police car (call it the resorvoir dogs fear in me), so I don't write tickets for seat belts. Sure, if I see someone that looks shady I might use 10 over or a belt to make a legal stop, but unless I find something else (like dope, guns, warrants) they're not getting a ticket for it. The good part is as much as I hate writing tickets and am very concious of the fact that the recipient may have to decide between paying this ticket vs a bill next month and/or groceries, there are plenty of straight up, certifiable #1 a-holes out there that I can issue them and not lose a wink of sleep. That allows me to give the amount of breaks I do. Honestly though, there are those that I hand the ticket over with a smile because they just plain deserve it. Those are the ones where you're in traffic and you say "Look at that *******". They're everywhere. I'm pretty famous for my 'work around tickets". You can tell right from the get go when it comes to the normal, everyday types, boys and girls, men and women, black and white, if they just had an off day and maybe were thinking about work or something like that and made a small mistake. I might write a guy/gal a sudden acceleration ticket, which has a fine but 0 points and doesn't appear on the driving record, thus keeping them safe from their own insurance company. To those types that I can tell probably don't have the cash, I'll write them something small, maybe waivable if I can manage it, or tell them to set a court date and use the 2 months until the court date to put the money together. Smizzy - as for your hash, say that 1) it's not your car 2) you didn't know it was in there 3) you're holding it for a friend Jerry - I know what you're talking about and I hate it. As for the last second mergers on say I-94 in backed up traffic heading to Kalamazoo, I have to avoid drawing my gun ALK - The left lane hogs in Michigan are so bad they have their own Association of Left Lane Hogs of Michigan, complete with an elected board and shriner-like hats. Just do what I do, tailgate them to the point of hooking up to their hitch, flash your highbeams and honk. I used to pass them on the right, now I've taken the offensive. Most freeways here in Detroit are a minimum 3 lanes each way while a few of them are 4. Doesn't matter - they ride that left lane like it's their constitutional right. Unforunately in MI, if the road they travel on has 3 lanes or more one way, there is no law preventing them from doing so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.