OUR D-LINE WILL BE FINE (THE REBUTTAL)

[GREEN FIEND]

NEWS FLASH: The New York Jets do not run a true 3-4 defense. Mangini switches between 3 and 4 man fronts early and often--and his D-Line must have the flexibility to do the same. We need the type of players that have the flexibility to line up at different positions to shift and disguise our defensive plays. The Jets have some of the personnel needed to run Mangini's vision (yes, I do believe this includes D-Rob) and we just need to add a few more pieces.

I agree that Kimo should not be our starter at DE next year. But the guy does bring attributes to the team that maybe some of you guys are taking for granted. He does possess, as an NFL veteran who has actually put his pads on for Super Bowl Sunday, the leadership and locker room presence of a player who has earned a ring. He also has the experience in a 3-4 defense and the intangibles necessary to help the rest of the guys understand 3-4 schemes. Kimo may not be starter material, but he's certainly an asset.

Also, it seems that everyone wants to point the finger at D-Rob. Why? His flexibilty is exactly what a Mangini defense needs. Robertson's ability to play different roles in the trenches allows us to gameplan specifically for each opponent and his quickness on the inside is a problem for opposing Centers and Guards. To quote the immortal Joe Klecko, "The closer you move into the nose, the faster things happen." It was his first year EVER as a 3-4 NT and even those who hate "D-Slob" can't deny the progress he made in the second half of the season.

Shaun Ellis is a solid DE and one of the leaders of our Jets defense. He's been a virtual iron-man for us in that he's only missed a total of 4 games in his 7 seasons in Green and White. He brings it every week and his production will increase along with the improvement of this defense as a whole.

The D-Line showed consistent improvement and played lights out in the second half of the regular season. Our defense began to gel and we only gave up a little over 12 points per game and only allowed one rushing TD in those final eight weeks. That kind of turn around and that kind of dominance starts up front.....with the D-Line. The way I see it, all of the first round talent that we've drafted (minus Abe) is finally under the supervision of a competent coaching staff and can only improve on what they've shown in the past.

Now, I'm not saying that we're set up front, but by no means do we "suck". I think the jury is still out on guys like Mosely, Ball, Moore, and yes..............even Pouha. Maybe we go D-Line in the Draft or maybe we make that big FA splash (Thomas) that most are drooling over. My point is our D-Line is solid and IMPROVING every time they step on the field together.

The sky is not falling, we don't suck, and those of you who can't see the development and progress of this team need to open your eyes.

[CoachTsurfing]

Yeah, I'm with you. Our line doesn't suck. But it does need to get more athletic. I think we will adresse that with at least one of our first 3 picks.

[drago]

NEWS FLASH: The New York Jets do not run a true 3-4 defense. Mangini switches between 3 and 4 man fronts early and often--and his D-Line must have the flexibility to do the same. We need the type of players that have the flexibility to line up at different positions to shift and disguise our defensive plays. The Jets have some of the personnel needed to run Mangini's vision (yes, I do believe this includes D-Rob) and we just need to add a few more pieces.

I agree that Kimo should not be our starter at DE next year. But the guy does bring attributes to the team that maybe some of you guys are taking for granted. He does possess, as an NFL veteran who has actually put his pads on for Super Bowl Sunday, the leadership and locker room presence of a player who has earned a ring. He also has the experience in a 3-4 defense and the intangibles necessary to help the rest of the guys understand 3-4 schemes. Kimo may not be starter material, but he's certainly an asset.

Also, it seems that everyone wants to point the finger at D-Rob. Why? His flexibilty is exactly what a Mangini defense needs. Robertson's ability to play different roles in the trenches allows us to gameplan specifically for each opponent and his quickness on the inside is a problem for opposing Centers and Guards. To quote the immortal Joe Klecko, "The closer you move into the nose, the faster things happen." It was his first year EVER as a 3-4 NT and even those who hate "D-Slob" can't deny the progress he made in the second half of the season.

Shaun Ellis is a solid DE and one of the leaders of our Jets defense. He's been a virtual iron-man for us in that he's only missed a total of 4 games in his 7 seasons in Green and White. He brings it every week and his production will increase along with the improvement of this defense as a whole.

The D-Line showed consistent improvement and played lights out in the second half of the regular season. Our defense began to gel and we only gave up a little over 12 points per game and only allowed one rushing TD in those final eight weeks. That kind of turn around and that kind of dominance starts up front.....with the D-Line. The way I see it, all of the first round talent that we've drafted (minus Abe) is finally under the supervision of a competent coaching staff and can only improve on what they've shown in the past.

Now, I'm not saying that we're set up front, but by no means do we "suck". I think the jury is still out on guys like Mosely, Ball, Moore, and yes..............even Pouha. Maybe we go D-Line in the Draft or maybe we make that big FA splash (Thomas) that most are drooling over. My point is our D-Line is solid and IMPROVING every time they step on the field together.

The sky is not falling, we don't suck, and those of you who can't see the development and progress of this team need to open your eyes.

[#27TheDominator]

How many guys are you going to carry for their "intangibles?" Your comments about Kimo apply directly to Bobby Hamilton. Lockerroom leadership is nice, but on field leadership is better. Kimo's familiarity with the 3-4 should have made him better rather than worse than everybody else, yet he was consistently getting blown off the line. If the D line is so "fine" then why did every Tom, Dick and Willis McGahee drop a century on us? Are the coaches idiots or the player bad? Cause one or the other wasn't working. We don't have to dump everyone, but we're getting pushed around up front and changes are necessary. Flexibility is nice, but 4-3, 3-4 4-6, you can't expect to go too far in the playoff when your front 7 is getting pushed around.

[DaBrick Wall]

I somewhat agree with you, but I have to disagree with the principle that the defensive line is fine.

First, Kimo should not be anywhere near this team. He's awful and old now, and he doesn't deserve a roster spot--not to mention $4 million of cap room per year--just because he can be a mentor to some of the younger players. Teaching is why teams have coaches.

Secondly, this defensive line needs another playmaker. Ellis is fine despite what every media outlet writes or says about him; 3-4 ends aren't supposed to get many sacks at all, and I thought he did great in his first season in the defense. I don't think Robertson is a true 3-4 NT. He has the potential to be a great 4-3 tackle but he's just not big enough to occupy the necessary amount of blockers that is so crucial to our defense. The specific plays that stick out are the 3 or 4 straight runs for big gains up the middle in the playoff game against New England. I would love to move him to end and see if he can become a Seymour type of player, but there's not a lot to offer at NT in the draft or FA. It's not the worst thing in the world, though, to keep Robertson at NT.

But if no NT is added, we certainly need an upgrade at DE. I said my thoughts on Kimo before. Dave Ball is a decent backup there but he's certainly not starting material from what I saw this season. I would look at someone like Kenyon Coleman, who has experience as a 3-4 end, in FA or look to the draft for a DE/DT tweener (boy, it would be great if Carriker falls). As we've seen in New England, the line is essential to defensive success and the personnel there now needs to be upgraded...

[ECURB]

OUr D got better, and they werent terrible...

But to call them "lights out" in the second half, and not think that the Dline is our biggest need this offseason is wrong.

[drago]

OUr D got better, and they werent terrible...

But to call them "lights out" in the second half, and not think that the Dline is our biggest need this offseason is wrong.

No one is ready to argue Kimo should be starting next year (or i hope not anyway). speaking of last year, his numbers were bad, but who else was there to sign?

Going into the draft/FA we had no HB, Center, LT, RT, RDE, Pure NT, QB, and questions at WR. I think Kimo held down the fort as best he could, and it was necessary for a guy like that to play last year. Key word...last year.

This year going into FA, and the Draft, we have most aspects of the team looking decent, if not better. Of course DE will be addressed, and Kimo will be gone/backup, but the D-Line was not the reason we lost 7 games, it could be better but we are not the bottom of the league.

[GREEN FIEND]

The purpose of my post was to tell all the Chicken Littles out there to take a deep breath and realize that we are not that far off on the defensive line. I agree that we need a playmaker at DE and one of our Big Boys at NT definitely needs to step it up. I think we have nice depth along the line and the addition of one of the before-mentioned would improve our defense immensely.

A force in the middle would allow D-Rob to rotate between NT & DE and give Mangini all kinds of flexibility.

Adding a playmaker at DE would take some of the pressure off of D-Rob in the middle and allow him to cause havoc on the inside.

We may be one FA signing/Stud rookie DE away from having a D-Line that will give opposing offenses fits. Our defense really came on in the second half of the season and played "lights out" when you compare their effort to the first half of the season. Besides the home game against Buffalo (where everybody played like ****) our defense gave the offense a chance to win every game down the stretch. We played as well as anybody in regards to the only stat that matters: POINTS AGAINST.

Now, if we can add another piece to the puzzle and get more of a contribution at the NT position.....maybe our defense could play like that for a full seaon.

[PeterNorth09]

How does our d-line not suck? We had one of, if not, the worst run defense in the league. The only reason we statistically didn't have the league's worst run defense was because of our cupcake-fest schedule.

If Robertson doesn't deserve to have the finger pointed at him who does? We gave up multiple first round picks for him and he can't play 3-4 NT and he makes a ton of money. Robertson was at his best in 2004 playing in a pure 4-3 scheme next to another 300 lber, Jason Ferguson.

Shaun Ellis is decent. Take away 2003 and 2004 and he's had a pretty average career especially considering he was a first round pick in 2000. He had a bounce-back year last year but that was mostly due to the fact that he stayed healthy.

We'll upgrade over Kimo in the off-season with Carriker or another DE but I don't unless he turns out to be another Richard Seymour I don't see any major improvement happening with this defensive line.