AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Because those 2 pitchers are effective against leftys and villone was effective against rightys last year until torre overused him flagrantly. And because it makes A LOT more sense to sign a guy like that giving up only money then giving up valuable trading chips for set up men. So I take it you're also under the impression that Mariano Rivera has eight or nine seasons left in him so the Yankees shouldn't look at a young guy with closers experience and see if he can handle New York as a set up man? Ya know...kinda like thinking ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Take a look at Villone's IP per month. April May June he pitched 9 13 and 13 IP and he went into the all star break with a 2.27 ERA, a 201 BAA and only 2 homers. After the break in July he pitched a taxing 17 IP and in august he pitched over 22 IP which is ABSURD for a middle RP. And that dosn't even take into account the fact that he was up throwing in the bullpen almost every game that he didn't come in to. There should be no surprise to anyone that he numbers got a hell of a lot worse after the break. Okay, I did...and you're right..he pitched well for a couple of months. Now you go look at his stats over the past 13 seasons. He's a scrub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 So you do want to pay two different guys to do the same job? How smart would a GM look for paying two lefty specialists and still not having a lefty who can give him a couple of innings without watching his ERA go through the roof. Oh wait, I know. Maybe Scrubenweiss will go two innings, give up two solo homers but that would be AWESOME because his WHIP would be a staggering 1.00. I mean, who the hell cares about a 9.00 ERA, you've said yourself many times that ERA is meaningless. I said many times i don't think the yankees need to sign Schoeneweis or Villone. I'd just rather sign them then give up alot of value for another set up man. I think the yankee pen is fine the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 So I take it you're also under the impression that Mariano Rivera has eight or nine seasons left in him so the Yankees shouldn't look at a young guy with closers experience and see if he can handle New York as a set up man? Ya know...kinda like thinking ahead. I have NO IDEA if Mike gonzalez can replace rivera and because that won't need to happen for 3 more years at least the yankees would be better served to wait till Joe Nathan or a healthy Gagne hit the FA market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 You yourself said that the reason you liked stanton is that he was able to get both lefties and rightys out therefore a righty who can also get lefties out (LIKE SCOTT PROCTOR) can do the same job as a guy like Stanton. Gonzalez' numbers say he does it better. As a Yankee fan, that's what I want. Better players. I know I'm a bit crazy sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Okay, I did...and you're right..he pitched well for a couple of months. Now you go look at his stats over the past 13 seasons. He's a scrub. He's had up and down years like MOST of the set up men in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I have NO IDEA if Mike gonzalez can replace rivera and because that won't need to happen for 3 more years at least the yankees would be better served to wait till Joe Nathan or a healthy Gagne hit the FA market. LOL...LOL...LOL...okay, so no to Mike Gonzalez because we can try to get Gagne in three years..I'm done dude. Just when I think you can't say something more riddiculous you go and throw that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Gonzalez' numbers say he does it better. As a Yankee fan, that's what I want. Better players. I know I'm a bit crazy sometimes. His numbers over one year in a baseball wasteland in the NL. PLUS having to give up 2 young players with value who should be traded to fill the yankees real need, first base. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 LOL...LOL...LOL...okay, so no to Mike Gonzalez because we can try to get Gagne in three years..I'm done dude. Just when I think you can't say something more riddiculous you go and throw that out there. Exactly. Rivera isn't retiring so you're overpaying for a SET UP MAN. NOT A CLOSER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 He's had up and down years like MOST of the set up men in baseball. Can you never admit that you're wrong? Get off the Villone bandwagon. In 11 seasons he has managed an ERA below 4.00 just three times. Seems like he had some up and down, down, down, down, down, up, down, up, down, down years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Exactly. Rivera isn't retiring so you're overpaying for a SET UP MAN. NOT A CLOSER. Eric Gagne baby...he's the future...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 His numbers over one year in a baseball wasteland in the NL. Ummmm, didn't the Yankess just pay 16 mill for one year for a pitcher that pitched in that "wasteland"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 His numbers over one year in a baseball wasteland in the NL. PLUS having to give up 2 young players with value who should be traded to fill the yankees real need, first base. No thanks. What two young players with value are we talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Can you never admit that you're wrong? Get off the Villone bandwagon. In 11 seasons he has managed an ERA below 4.00 just three times. Seems like he had some up and down, down, down, down, down, up, down, up, down, down years. What am i wrong about? I've said OVER AND OVER that the yankees should let Villone walk? These set up men are almost interchangeable and the yankees have ALOT of depth at that spot. Trading 2 valuable trade chips for ANOTHER set up man just weakens the yankees chances to get a good 1B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Ummmm, didn't the Yankess just pay 16 mill for one year for a pitcher that pitched in that "wasteland"? Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 What two young players with value are we talking about? Melky and Proctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Ummmm, didn't the Yankess just pay 16 mill for one year for a pitcher that pitched in that "wasteland"?When i said baseball wasteland i was talking about pitsburgh not the NL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 What am i wrong about? I've said OVER AND OVER that the yankees should let Villone walk? These set up men are almost interchangeable and the yankees have ALOT of depth at that spot. Trading 2 valuable trade chips for ANOTHER set up man just weakens the yankees chances to get a good 1B. If you believe that set-up men are interchangeable, you just haven't been watching basball the last decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 What am i wrong about? I've said OVER AND OVER that the yankees should let Villone walk? These set up men are almost interchangeable and the yankees have ALOT of depth at that spot. Trading 2 valuable trade chips for ANOTHER set up man just weakens the yankees chances to get a good 1B. Well, for one you said I was wrong about McGriff but oddly enough you ignored the post where I proved you wrong so that was one. Then the fact that you continually blame Torre for the fact that Ron Villone is a friggin bum which I tried to tell you at the all-star break but I was crazy for wanting to replace him since he had just had the best two months of his baseball life at age 72. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 If you believe that set-up men are interchangeable, you just haven't been watching basball the last decade I concur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 If you believe that set-up men are interchangeable, you just haven't been watching basball the last decade There are a few GREAT set up men. After that everyone is up and down. Thats why smart teams like the A's change their set up men almost every year because they get more money then they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 When i said baseball wasteland i was talking about pitsburgh not the NL. How would pitching for Pittsburgh, affect the batters that Gonzalez faces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Melky and Proctor. Please show me where I suggested that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 How would pitching for Pittsburgh, affect the batters that Gonzalez faces? SD nails it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Well, for one you said I was wrong about McGriff but oddly enough you ignored the post where I proved you wrong so that was one. Then the fact that you continually blame Torre for the fact that Ron Villone is a friggin bum which I tried to tell you at the all-star break but I was crazy for wanting to replace him since he had just had the best two months of his baseball life at age 72. The yankees didn't lose in the playoffs before of Ron Villone. Replacing him would've made zero difference and if you can't see that torre overused him by the pure number of innings then you just arn't living in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Please show me where I suggested that. Thanks. This WHOLE THREAD is based on an article that says the yankees would have to give up Melky and Proctor. Didn't you read about the trade you've been defending for 6 pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 How would pitching for Pittsburgh, affect the batters that Gonzalez faces?1. It's clear that certian players don't respond well to new york and the yankees take that chance every time they bring a player here. Pitching in Pitt and New York are very different animals. 2 The NL just isn't as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 The yankees didn't lose in the playoffs before of Ron Villone. Replacing him would've made zero difference and if you can't see that torre overused him by the pure number of innings then you just arn't living in reality. Okay, I never said the Yankees lost because of Villone so please refrain from misrepresenting the points I am making. One of which is that Ron Villone was a bum before the Yankees got him. For a couple of months he pitched like he wasn't a bum. Then he morphed in to Ron Villone. Hey, you think maybe he wouldn't have been overused if the Yankees had another reliable lefty in the 'pen? We had one last season who got burned out (your boy Villone) and you want to go in to this season with none? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 This WHOLE THREAD is based on an article that says the yankees would have to give up Melky and Proctor. Didn't you read about the trade you've been defending for 6 pages? I asked where I said that was a good deal. I never did. Get it right. Havent you read the quotes of the person you've been arguing with for the last five pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Okay, I never said the Yankees lost because of Villone so please refrain from misrepresenting the points I am making. One of which is that Ron Villone was a bum before the Yankees got him. For a couple of months he pitched like he wasn't a bum. Then he morphed in to Ron Villone. Hey, you think maybe he wouldn't have been overused if the Yankees had another reliable lefty in the 'pen? We had one last season who got burned out (your boy Villone) and you want to go in to this season with none? It didn't matter if it was lefty or righty. Proctor was overused too and he's not a lefty. They go into next season with more arms then they did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 During the season I suggested Proctor and Phillips (with Villone if PItt would take him) but as much as I'd like the guy in pinstripes, I think Melky and Proctor is too much. JMO. I can see why you missed this earlier. It was allll the way down at the second quote in this thread. Ya' know...where it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 There are a few GREAT set up men. After that everyone is up and down. Thats why smart teams like the A's change their set up men almost every year because they get more money then they are worth. How many Championships Have the A's won, since the real advocacy of set-up men? First you said "ste up men are interchangeable" and then you said "there are few great set-up men". Set-up men don't get the accolades and the good ones toil in anonimity. Look at the teams that scurry after a Scott Linebrink. Baseball people know. The Mets are crushed by a Chad Bradford defection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 1 2 The NL just isn't as good. And again, The Yankees just signed a NL pitcher, who was mediocre in total to 16 million dollars for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 How many Championships Have the A's won, since the real advocacy of set-up men? First you said "ste up men are interchangeable" and then you said "there are few great set-up men". Set-up men don't get the accolades and the good ones toil in anonimity. Look at the teams that scurry after a Scott Linebrink. Baseball people know. The Mets are crushed by a Chad Bradford defection. I admire madmikes passion but he's so obsessed with off the wall stats that he ignores the basics to try and look smarter than the average fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 How many Championships Have the A's won, since the real advocacy of set-up men? First you said "ste up men are interchangeable" and then you said "there are few great set-up men". Set-up men don't get the accolades and the good ones toil in anonimity. Look at the teams that scurry after a Scott Linebrink. Baseball people know. The Mets are crushed by a Chad Bradford defection. I should've said MOST set up men are interchangeable. The mets will be fine without bradford. The a's haven't won because the playoffs are crap shoot as we've seen this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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