Karate Kid Mafia - Strike First, Strike Hard, No Mercy

[HessStation]

I was on board for that yesterday. It didn't fly. It never flies. *sob*

 

 

 

Ok well I will not be voting for anybody except Ape until one of us is dead. 

[Integrity28]

For a first time ever in mafia recorded history Scum and Town Unite and Lynch Ape!!!!!!!!!

If you can't make the case I'm scum, or know its high risk... Push the "for the lolz" angle.

Got it.

[HessStation]

If you can't make the case I'm scum, or know its high risk... Push the "for the lolz" angle.

Got it.

I didn't say you were scum. And I didn't say it was for the lolz. I said it doesn't even matter. 

[Integrity28]

Ok well I will not be voting for anybody except Ape until one of us is dead. 

You don't have the sack to go down this road you nancy.

[Nolder]

So, Nolder - if I think Hess and Lily are scum, and Hess votes Lily with me, I'm not going to conclude that Hess is no longer scum. It would be a huge leap in logic, and very naive. Does that make sense now?

Doesn't it worry you at all that (from your POV) scum is voting scum with scum?

Do you really think it's just a lot of bussing or what?

 

In my experience things are rarely that simple

[HessStation]

You don't have the sack to go down this road you nancy.

 

It's already done. 

[Integrity28]

I didn't say you were scum. And I didn't say it was for the lolz. I said it doesn't even matter. 

Seems legit.

If your town, you are forcing town's hand to kill one of two townies. Take all attention away from scum hunting.

If your scum, this makes sense. Pulls all attention away from scum hunting, and people will side with you over me everyday, my aggressive play is always too much for the weak stomachs to see as anything but scummy, because they don't know what to actually look for.

[HessStation]

Seems legit.

If your town, you are forcing town's hand to kill one of two townies. Take all attention away from scum hunting.

If your scum, this makes sense. Pulls all attention away from scum hunting, and people will side with you over me everyday, my aggressive play is always too much for the weak stomachs to see as anything but scummy, because they don't know what to actually look for.

Ok, cool then. Hope you die soon.  

[Integrity28]

Doesn't it worry you at all that (from your POV) scum is voting scum with scum?

Do you really think it's just a lot of bussing or what?

 

In my experience things are rarely that simple

I bus like crazy as scum, especially when my scum mates are in crosshairs. CTM does the same, he's still advising in their QT I'm sure, his name has been below reading along a lot since he died.

I don't consider it simple that I won't stop suspecting someone just because they vote the same way as me. In fact, that is straight stupid logic. You mean to tell me that if I ever need to convince yo I'm town, I should just follow how you vote?

How many times have I accused FOS of get behind the Ape? That is scum voting the same way as me. I can't believe you need this spelled out. You are pinging a lot right now.

[Integrity28]

Ok, cool then. Hope you die soon.  

Be careful what you wish for.

I'm vanilla. I'll die, town gains a lot of info from my alignment, and then I'll be right back in the game as a sub player.

To finish what I started here, hopefully.

I like that now you are doing the butthurt logic that Smash and BG have already tried this game.

Ot'll be great to see who I was right about, and who I made cry like a bunch of pansies.

[HessStation]

Be careful what you wish for.

I'm vanilla. I'll die, town gains a lot of info from my alignment, and then I'll be right back in the game as a sub player.

To finish what I started here, hopefully.

I like that now you are doing the butthurt logic that Smash and BG have already tried this game.

Ot'll be great to see who I was right about, and who I made cry like a bunch of pansies.

 

You making me cry would be impossible. I can only find joy in your death, however. 

[Integrity28]

You making me cry would be impossible. I can only find joy in your death, however. 

 

Abandoning win conditions for the town because I "bothered" you = mafia equivalent of crying.

[Integrity28]

unvote vote Ape

I don't blame other voters. A few are prob scum and most of us skim at this point but Ape has no excuse. How anyone can read that "challenge" piece and come to the conclusion that I am scum is either a moron or scum. So he's one of those, which is good enough reason to kill him.

I didn't say you were scum. And I didn't say it was for the lolz. I said it doesn't even matter.

Yes, you did. You are lying. Again.

You just hedged by saying that I'm either scum or a moron.

[Integrity28]

Vote Ape

 

 

vote APE

 

 

CTM is town imo. Miller claim D1 is pretty pro-town. Don't understand why the Ape would use his ability D1 as town. The whole dying by D3 thing doesn't really make sense to me but evn if it is true, why not wait 'til D2 to force the action? Methinks the Ape is more concerned in vetting his role and seeming pro-town than in actually playing pro-town.

Vote: Ape

 

 

Few things stand out on my read:

1) Ape is hyperactive with his posting this game. I don't just mean quantity of posts, he actually sounds really juiced up to be playing in this game. That being said, why is he selling the 80 as cop reveal thing so hard and then being so defensive about it after the fact when he clearly mentioned it without provocation several times. It almost feels like he's trying to bait out from 80 to say one way or the other whether he was kidding or not, which is anti-town.

2) I have no problem lynching CTM as a miller, since it's basically a gymped role that's best to vet earlier rather than later, but why waste a "challenge" on it to get it out now. I hardly think that on its face that this is a game-breaking decision that needed to be "him or me". I feel like the last time Pac modded Ape and CTM had to get the other lynched and Ape's play in this feels very very reminiscent of the way he went after CTM like a mad dog to get him lynched when they were both anti-town.

Vote Ape

 

 

Btw, If Ape is somehow a jester, I'm going to seppuku.

 

 

I agree with this. Ape is over selling this time around. Holding my vote until I get caught up.

 

 

Vote CTM

 

 

I really don't like the way Ape is coming across. And like Wombat said, it would be a stupid play for scum CTM to claim Miller.

Vote Ape

 

 

Re-reading the "challenge".

 

Ape voters came out fast and strong, 80 is scum MVP, CTM, Wombat, then JVOR with a very over-baked "case" and then he follows it with the weird jester thought, Lily nudges my train at 14:01 with a "until I get caught up" stall, then Hess votes me, then Lily votes me at 14:07. (Once again, it is a HUGE scumtell on Lily that she will say she's going to "get caught up" and then she never does.) 

 

This far into the re-read, I'd say Lily is most scummy, JVOR comes in next. Not sure what to make of Wombat, I thought he was setting a trap. Hess seems to be doing the smart townie thing so far... going to keep re-reading.

[Integrity28]

It's certainly possible they're both town, but we've got to lynch one of them and as I've already said, Ape's role is vetted.

Vote: CTM

 

 

The bold is a 100% lie. It would be extremely easy for you to prove if it was true, but you've refused to twice now, because you know it's not.

14^14.

 

 

^ very scummy post

 

 

Let's revisit this later, I've lost interest in trying to right everything you are spinning. You are calling me a liar, and I feel like what you are saying I'm lying about is a moving target.

You continuing to argue with me and call me a liar in the midst of this challenge with CTM only serves HIS goals, not mine, I don't give a **** where your vote is... you are pushing my lynch calling me a liar.

 

 

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with for why BG and CTM, and some others are being so impossibly illogical is that I kicked the scum hornet's nest.

Greatest D1 player of all time. Bitchuzzzz. GFY

 

 

Continuing...  BG votes CTM, with a very pragmatic pro-town reason, then a couple posts later he calls me a liar and basically dumps a huge amount of fuel on the fire of my train. Then CTM calls BG "scummy" which IMO was a distancing post.

 

80 and BG neg rep me for tongue-in-cheek bragging about being greatest D1 scum hunter.

 

More to come....  this far in: Lily, BG, JVOR

[Integrity28]

CONGRATS, VERBAL & MRS. VERBAL!!!!!!

Unlike JF80, the choice between Ape and CTM is easy for me. I'd kill them both.

I voted for him before and I'd do it again.

Vote: CTM

 

 

I hate gladiator challenges.

vote CTM

 

 

Feeling that they're likely both town. Neither one of their plays really makes sense for scum, imo.

 

 

who cares the LD could vet his miller post just as easy. Eww.

 

 

I will never ever do that I am this not that or that thing ever. Nope. Gfy.

 

 

The phrase coming into every game lately is getting old. There are enough posts that a LD could check.

 

 

Ape would be acting more scummy to me out of the two. Would rather not lynch either but, in terms of roles, not sure how I feel just leaving a revealed Miller alive. Can't trust it. Tempted to just lynch the Ape though.

 

 

Great, so the Ape effectively killed our chances of pressuring someone else D1. Whatevs.

 

 

What am I doing that is "acting more scummy"? Out of curiosity. I won't even defend against what you say, I just want to understand how what I'm doing is coming across. I think I'm being pragmatic, and probably over-arguing my points of view as usual. Other than that, I'm not seeing it and I'm trying to be self-aware here.

 

 

fair enough. My vote will stay on CTM.

 

CTM gets votes from SMC and Leelou, neither of whom declare thoughts of who they think has been scummier, but putting their votes in the right spot. Sharrow chimes in with "they are both town" looking sufficiently useless and keeping hands clean. 

 

Then I finally got CTM to say he was town, not scum or third party and Hess and Leelou both protested the validity of saying it, and invoking it in this circumstance, a moment where I'd said it opening with my reveal, and beckoned CTM to do it and he was blatantly resistant. It was like scummates bring their gripes about the LD statement being used from their QT to the game thread, because they were pissed.

 

Hess begins nudging my train, saying I'm being more scummy. AFTER I finally got CTM to say he was town, not scum. 80 nudges my train, scum MVP. 

 

I challenge Hess to explain what I'm doing that is so scummy, and he rolls over and says "fair enough". Just like he rolled over after I called him a liar about being shot at.

 

At this point in the re-read: Lily, BG, Hess... lesser Leelou, JVOR. In that order.

[Integrity28]

I agree that Integrity seems especially eager right now. But there could be several explanations for the antsiness.

Integrity and CTM are probably both town, in my opinion ... so I think I'd have to go with the miller.

vote CTM

 

 

I know. I think Integrity jumped the gun on using his ability, but I don't know why he'd have rushed into it as either scum or town. And maybe I could see CTM claiming miller if he's worried about being investigated early, as he often is ... but I think he's more likely town. I guess we might as well lose the miller, lol.

 

 

I seriously hate the Ape's crap right now. I also hate that Pac enabled him by giving him a role that makes the entire game about him for a day. Horrible play from him so far if he is town, which I don't really think he is. Ape's excited play this game doesn't fit with his crappy claimed role and his eagerness to use his ability does make me think CTM is right regarding the possibility of some kind of powerup.

 

 

I see Pac was drunk last night and that there is no recent vc.

We have CTM, the claimed Miller, and Ape. I'd really like to lynch both of them right now and really am tempted to change my vote over to Ape for this gladiator challenge.

 

 

Another one that doesn't understand the logic of being required to use my challenge at some point, me thinking CTM is scum, and me knowing without a cop result on someone I could easily challenge a power role, so using it on 1.) someone I think is scum and 2.) someone claiming miller, is a low-risk use of the ability on someone I think is lying.

Go for it, you've been posturing to move your vote to me for a while. Very subtle, very scummy.

You've made a few subtle nudges that I've picked up on. You are right there with BG and Smash in my top 3 outside of CTM.

 

 

the danger is if you FC'd it as scum. In fact you kinda ruined what was once an idea of mine after this worked for SMC, who I think really was a miller, a bunch of games ago. For starters you can't be vetted.

The people super inclined to just believe you on the premise that "scum would never do that" I have a major FOS for. There's quite a few on that list too.

But like I said, neither of you would be top of my scum list at the moment. I would have been inclined to just let you live for a while and keep a close watch. But between the two of u, if I have to pick..

 

 

unvote

 

 

Just trying to think this through if I had Ape's role as scum I'd maybe use it differently. Try and catch a cop or doc in this challenge. If scum I think as a team the decision would be cleaner. Plus no one really seems to be helping him so much. I actually think they're both town... Hmm

 

 

Oh almost forgot Unvote Sharrow Vote APE and fully prepared to lynch CTM tomorrow if APE flips town because millers are worthless.

 

 

Hmm vote CTM

 

Dan chimed in echoing Sharrow a bit, voted the right way like SMC did and then bounced. Wombat comes back and nudges my train, then Leelou postures to move her vote, so I dare her to because she'd been posturing to do it all along (this was the exchange I've mentioned pinged me several times, just now found it). 

 

Hess, after saying he'd leave his vote on CTM, unvotes him. Starts chit-chatting with CTM, figuring it out out-loud as I do a lot, Smashmouth appears from out of nowhere and votes me while seconding CTM's terrible offer to lynch me and if I flip town, CTM self votes and gets lynched next day. Which never happens. Hess re-votes Smash. If Hess is scum, it was a good bus + set up next day lynch.

 

At this point of the re-read: Leelou, Lily, BG, Smash (regardless of 80's results), lesser extent Hess, JVOR

[Integrity28]

There you go everybody, Smash, an experienced player, just asked that question (bold). This mother****er is scum.

This whole post reeks from the "he's a better player than that" to the "I originally was going to vote CTM, BUT... ".

He insulates himself from any outcome by doing the whole "if he fooled me, good for him". Then says he was "going to" vote CTM, but votes me instead, which is a total neutrality play. Meaning he can come back to this later if he's called out for voting me instead of CTM. (Just like his original vote on CTM was a neutrality play, it could have been a joke, or could have been serious depending on how things played.)

I think it's extremely alarming that Smash is "seconding" CTM's offer to lynch him tomorrow, if I flip town. EVERY time we've seen someone make that offer, it never happens, and I guarantee it doesn't happen now. I'll flip town, and neither Smash nor CTM will revisit the "promises". I guarantee it.

Also, (the the red) nothing about what I've done ensures that 2 townies will die today. Smash is either an idiot who doesn't ready, or fear mongering with misinformation. I believe the latter, we all know Smash is no dummy. He's an idiot, but he's not stupid. LOL

 

 

Millers are worthless, let's save the miller.

... until tomorrow, when we can then worm our way out of lynching him again.

 

 

LOL well **** it. Yeah I absolutely thought after I read Smash's post that he's scum. In fact, I have more thoughts on who scum is here, I'll keep it to myself although I'm sure it's obvious to some other townies. And yeah, the more I think about it the more I think both you and CTM are town. Oh well.

 

 

Vote CTM

 

 

F*** it. Kill the Miller. One less thing for me to worry about as the Cop.

Unvote vote CTM

 

 

Hello gorgeous.

I find this gladiator challenge stupid. I want to vote someone I think is scum. I believe CTM is a miller and Ape is a chronic gladiator. vote ctm

 

 

Agreed 100% word for word with this. I'd add that I think the Ape should have waited on this stupid battle thingy. He had 3 more days to see what else transpired. Scum MVP.

 

 

unvote

Vote: CTM

I second the motion of having the Vig/SK shoot the Ape.

 

 

I start casing Smash, Hess agrees. Again, I'm torn here, is he setting up next days lynch after a bus play, or is he sincere. He says he has other thoughts on who scum is, but doesn't share it, and still hasn't. Hello, "I'll get back to you on that" like Lily says?

 

JIF votes out of nowhere, 80 makes his first halfway intelligent post of the game, and then Crusher begrudgingly votes CTM. Interestingly JIF agrees with Crusher, but would later go on to tell me that CTM was 100% the smart play. Wombat moves his vote, and then suggests I be shot... setting up the next kill, of a townie.

 

At this point in the re-read: Lily, Leelou, BG, lesser extent Hess, Smash, Wombat, JIF

[Integrity28]

This would actually be a pretty shitty role for scum. They couldn't challenge a cop or doc because they would lose and be lynched. And they can't really challenge any townie that hasn't revealed, because they could reveal something valuable and make the choice easy for the town. The options would be very limited and very risky, imo.

 

 

That was a pretty easy decision which is why I'm not sure how much we can gain from the votes. Did scum really all vote you? Doubt it. Probably a bunch of non-logical townies on the train which makes sense when you look at the list, except one player.

 

 

^ You suck

I am getting a bit of an odd vibe from batman. I have no idea why, quite frankly.

 

 

I stayed out of the fray because I wasnt around.  Flew in yesterday settled down, caught up and saw it was an easy decision.

 

Weird upgrade stuff.  Ok, it worked.  

 

I'm flattered.  

 

 

I start work tomorrow so please dont listen to monkey brains and speed lynch me before I get home I cant bring a cell phone into work

 

 

Smash sounds pretty confident he'll be alive tomorrow.

 

 

Good chance Darth is scum.  FYI

 

 

Sharrow dances on CTM's grave. Could be taunting his failure of a teammate, dunno. 

 

Darthe says he's getting weird vibe from JIF. Darthe was 1 of people on my list. JIF says Darthe likely scum. Darthe dies. Not sure what to conclude, if anything.

 

Smash sounded pretty confident he'd live through the night. That was some stinky business.

 

That's all I've got.

[Integrity28]

This is my list right now: Lily, Leelou, Hess

 

FOS and wary of: BG, JIF, Wombat, Smash (GF, or mafia sympathizer amongst townies)

 

SMC, Dan, Sharrow playing the "cleanest" games.

 

Nolder is applying logic like this is his first game. 80 continues to amaze me by doing the opposite of anything that makes sense. AVM is staying out of the fray almost completely. I was glad to see Wombat come in and do some scum hunting, I'm not sure anyone else has lifted a finger in that regard. I don't care for Hess lying, and then getting all weepy for being called on it. Now he's hinting doc like crazy, and if he tried to claim being shot at as the doc, with the cop already outed he's stupid. I don't think he's actually stupid. So he stays in my list.

 

I think at this point I've put in serious work. I need to back out of being the ringleader so I don't start getting all Ape-ey and chasing after every shiny object. 

 

If I was Nolder, I'd probably shoot Smash. His play was about as scummy as it gets, which he could afford to do if he's a GF or a town-appearing mafia symp. If not him, then possibly Hess, we can vet his "doc" hinting. If neither of them then Leelou or Lily.

 

That's the best I've got. If he wants he can shoot me, then I'd urge anyone who feels like putting in effort to at least re-read the work I've done, once you see I'm town. I am a safe kill for the town though, no risk of losing a power role. 

[JiFtheOracle]

I start casing Smash, Hess agrees. Again, I'm torn here, is he setting up next days lynch after a bus play, or is he sincere. He says he has other thoughts on who scum is, but doesn't share it, and still hasn't. Hello, "I'll get back to you on that" like Lily says?

 

JIF votes out of nowhere, 80 makes his first halfway intelligent post of the game, and then Crusher begrudgingly votes CTM. Interestingly JIF agrees with Crusher, but would later go on to tell me that CTM was 100% the smart play. Wombat moves his vote, and then suggests I be shot... setting up the next kill, of a townie.

 

At this point in the re-read: Lily, Leelou, BG, lesser extent Hess, Smash, Wombat, JIF

 

Just because I agreed with Crusher didnt mean it wasnt the right play.  I was forced into a voting situation between 2 players.  One who was claiming Miller and one who just activated some type of challenge putting his neck on the line.  Pretty much a no brainer.  Even if I genuinely thought CTM would flip Miller.  

[AVM]

@Ape:

 

Rather than quote all your posts and take forever to reply I'll just go with commentary in a post of my own, since I don't actually need your posts based off my questions/thoughts.

 

1 -- Why the drop of JVoR from your suspect list?  You had him on your first list, then your lesser list, then completely gone after that while not quoting him again.  I'm assuming this is a case of focusing on everything else going on and no posts from JVoR allowing him to slip off your suspect list which I think is a mistake.

 

2 -- I could agree on Smash as the shot, not so much Hess.  Reversed my feelings on Hess...though I follow you on the lying part.  Admittedly if it were some other players I'd be voting them right now, but I feel like Hess is town.

 

3 -- Add JVoR/Sharrow to the scum list and I can agree with what you've got for the most part.  Not reading Lils as scum though (I never do), but Leroy acting different this game...but I've never seen her so abrasive as scum.  She's usually the type to lay low then bitch slap town around towards the end like a few games ago.

[AVM]

^^probably the first time I've ever had the first post of a RL day in one of these games

[Jetsfan80]

Ape's gone back and forth on both Lily and JVOR.  Is it a trap?

 

I think one of those 2, or both, have to be scum. 

[Jetsfan80]

Few things stand out on my read:

1) Ape is hyperactive with his posting this game. I don't just mean quantity of posts, he actually sounds really juiced up to be playing in this game. That being said, why is he selling the 80 as cop reveal thing so hard and then being so defensive about it after the fact when he clearly mentioned it without provocation several times. It almost feels like he's trying to bait out from 80 to say one way or the other whether he was kidding or not, which is anti-town.

2) I have no problem lynching CTM as a miller, since it's basically a gymped role that's best to vet earlier rather than later, but why waste a "challenge" on it to get it out now. I hardly think that on its face that this is a game-breaking decision that needed to be "him or me". I feel like the last time Pac modded Ape and CTM had to get the other lynched and Ape's play in this feels very very reminiscent of the way he went after CTM like a mad dog to get him lynched when they were both anti-town.

Vote Ape

 

 

I agree with this. Ape is over selling this time around. Holding my vote until I get caught up.

 

 

I really don't like the way Ape is coming across. And like Wombat said, it would be a stupid play for scum CTM to claim Miller.

Vote Ape

 

 

The Ape already touched on them, but these are the posts in particular we need to look at from JVOR and Lily.  I don't think we need a much longer list than these two today, these posts are by far the most damning from the entire CTM-Ape battle, IMO.

 

JVOR especially reeks, which is why my vote is on him.  He was trying to act like he was playing on both sides of the aisle, willing to lynch either, but laying his vote on the Ape and keeping it there.

 

Lily says she's holding her vote until catching up, then SIX MINUTES LATER votes Ape (after consulting with her QT, of course).  Lily is a thoughtful, patient player.  How did she come to such a quick decision?

 

These should be the 2 lynch candidates.  Run competing trains on them and see what happens.

[Jetsfan80]

^^^^^^ 

 

Best scumhunting I've ever done.  So there.

[Integrity28]

@Ape:

 

Rather than quote all your posts and take forever to reply I'll just go with commentary in a post of my own, since I don't actually need your posts based off my questions/thoughts.

 

1 -- Why the drop of JVoR from your suspect list?  You had him on your first list, then your lesser list, then completely gone after that while not quoting him again.  I'm assuming this is a case of focusing on everything else going on and no posts from JVoR allowing him to slip off your suspect list which I think is a mistake.

 

2 -- I could agree on Smash as the shot, not so much Hess.  Reversed my feelings on Hess...though I follow you on the lying part.  Admittedly if it were some other players I'd be voting them right now, but I feel like Hess is town.

 

3 -- Add JVoR/Sharrow to the scum list and I can agree with what you've got for the most part.  Not reading Lils as scum though (I never do), but Leroy acting different this game...but I've never seen her so abrasive as scum.  She's usually the type to lay low then bitch slap town around towards the end like a few games ago.

 

 

1. It's not less suspicion of JVOR, so much as it's elevated suspicion of others. Considering JVORs train grew effortlessly, while my attempts on Lily and BG went absolutely nowhere, I'm wary of pushing too hard and being used by scum as a bulldozer. I had to scratch and claw to get people to finally vote CTM, in spite of how logically obvious it was to do it. Translation: fear of get behind the Ape.

 

2. My opinion on Hess has flip-flopped several times. So, I'm wary of him. Not much else I can tell you. When he was Jaws a couple games ago, he basically flaunted it. So, I'm not going to pretend I can anticipate why he does what he does, nor am I going to rationalize it as "oh, but he's Hess". He moved down my list, because he has a way of playing that makes sense to him, but not always others. I know how that goes.

 

3. I'm definitely reading Lily as scum right now, I used to always, but lately I've been able to discern between "scummy town Lily" and "Lily being divisive and opportunistic". I'd put my read at about 70% right now, which is about where I'm at with Leelou, and BG is probably about 60%. My FOS list is 51%, the list of clean players is about 49%. 

[Jetsfan80]

UNOFFICIAL DAY 2 VOTE COUNT

Hess (3) - Lily, Smash, Verb

Wombat (3) - SMC, Sharrow, Leelou

JVoR (3) - AVM, JiF, 80

Ape (2) - JVoR, Hess

Sharrow (1) - Dan

SMC (1) - Wombat

Lily (1) - Ape

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 roundhouse kicks to knock out.

[Integrity28]

Ape's gone back and forth on both Lily and JVOR.  Is it a trap?

 

I think one of those 2, or both, have to be scum. 

 

I haven't gone back and forth, I've moved them from major to minor FOS list, but I don't think I've done any flip-flopping from town to scum reads on them. Just varying degrees of suspicion.

[Jetsfan80]

1. It's not less suspicion of JVOR, so much as it's elevated suspicion of others. Considering JVORs train grew effortlessly, while my attempts on Lily and BG went absolutely nowhere, I'm wary of pushing too hard and being used by scum as a bulldozer. I had to scratch and claw to get people to finally vote CTM, in spite of how logically obvious it was to do it. Translation: fear of get behind the Ape.

 

2. My opinion on Hess has flip-flopped several times. So, I'm wary of him. Not much else I can tell you. When he was Jaws a couple games ago, he basically flaunted it. So, I'm not going to pretend I can anticipate why he does what he does, nor am I going to rationalize it as "oh, but he's Hess". He moved down my list, because he has a way of playing that makes sense to him, but not always others. I know how that goes.

 

3. I'm definitely reading Lily as scum right now, I used to always, but lately I've been able to discern between "scummy town Lily" and "Lily being divisive and opportunistic". I'd put my read at about 70% right now, which is about where I'm at with Leelou, and BG is probably about 60%. My FOS list is 51%, the list of clean players is about 49%. 

 

 

JVOR's train is only at 3 votes, I don't think that says much either way. 

[Integrity28]

The Ape already touched on them, but these are the posts in particular we need to look at from JVOR and Lily.  I don't think we need a much longer list than these two today, these posts are by far the most damning from the entire CTM-Ape battle, IMO.

 

JVOR especially reeks, which is why my vote is on him.  He was trying to act like he was playing on both sides of the aisle, willing to lynch either, but laying his vote on the Ape and keeping it there.

 

Lily says she's holding her vote until catching up, then SIX MINUTES LATER votes Ape (after consulting with her QT, of course).  Lily is a thoughtful, patient player.  How did she come to such a quick decision?

 

These should be the 2 lynch candidates.  Run competing trains on them and see what happens.

 

The bold red is the best scum tell I've got on Lily, I've caught her 2 other times doing this as scum. Like I said last night.

 

^^^^^^ 

 

Best scumhunting I've ever done.  So there.

 

... Drafting off of the Ape. Let's vote Lily then?

 

Unvote

Vote Lily

[Jetsfan80]

JVOR and Lily do always play scummy, Ape is right on that.  But that doesn't mean we don't lynch them for it.  JVOR has fully admitted in the past that he plays purposely scummy so that he can away with more when he IS scum. 

 

In a vacuum, JVOR and Lily's behavior around the Ape-CTM gladiator battle was, IMO, the most scummy.  They put themselves on an island with their reasoning for voting Ape and STAYING ON Ape.  That's worth looking into more than the people who either flip-flopped or voted CTM. 

 

Scum knew CTM was scum and I'd hazard a guess that at least one of them laid their vote on Ape and kept it there to try to push that lynch rather than bus their scum teammate on Day 1.  JVOR and Lily are my top-2 unless we can come up with better theories.

[Jetsfan80]

The bold red is the best scum tell I've got on Lily, I've caught her 2 other times doing this as scum. Like I said last night.

 

 

... Drafting off of the Ape. Let's vote Lily then?

 

Unvote

Vote Lily

 

 

I'm keeping my vote on JVOR.  Pretty sure you already had your vote on Lily (the post count i put above was the last one from Pac, and I didn't see any vote changes since).

 

I think everyone needs to put their votes on either JVOR and Lily for competing trains, and go from there. 

[Integrity28]

JVOR's train is only at 3 votes, I don't think that says much either way. 

 

I'm less concerned with the amount of votes he has, more concerned that while I was casing and pushing the top 4 I had, I started with Hess, Lily or BG, and people were pushing JVOR my 4th (without voting him yet). That's what made me wary of abandoning the other 3 in an effort to run up JVOR because other people we obviously pushing for it, to see if it took off. 

 

I may just be too aware of "get behind the Ape" efforts, but it was JIF mostly who was pushing JVOR from my list, while telling me we were on the same page, and he was mostly ignoring my other casing of Lily and BG, mostly. I think we all know that JIF likes to ride the Ape when he's scum, the same way I always ride him when I'm scum. 

[Jetsfan80]

I'm less concerned with the amount of votes he has, more concerned that while I was casing and pushing the top 4 I had, I started with Hess, Lily or BG, and people were pushing JVOR my 4th (without voting him yet). That's what made me wary of abandoning the other 3 in an effort to run up JVOR because other people we obviously pushing for it, to see if it took off. 

 

I may just be too aware of "get behind the Ape" efforts, but it was JIF mostly who was pushing JVOR from my list, while telling me we were on the same page, and he was mostly ignoring my other casing of Lily and BG, mostly. I think we all know that JIF likes to ride the Ape when he's scum, the same way I always ride him when I'm scum. 

 

I don't think we can take ANYTHING away from whether or not people followed your cases or not.  I'd rather pull from the evidence from the players' actions themselves then their reactions to you.  That's why my FOS list comes primarily from the vote count on the gladiator lynch, and secondarily from the actions of the players around the lynch.  Isolate out all the other crap and we can maybe see scum clearer.