Cimini: Sunday Notes

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Sunday notes: The Jets' party of five

May, 5, 2013
May 5

5:00

AM ET

By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com


Checking out the Jets on a sandwich Sunday, between the draft and rookie minicamp:

1. The Idzik Five: The Jets can bill it as a five-way quarterback competition now, but it's impossible to have a five-man battle in training camp. A four-way also would be difficult. Even a three-man fight would be pushing the envelope. Remember, two-a-day practices are history, so reps are at a premium. When they're in Cortland this summer, the Jets can't lose sight of the most important objectives. In addition to picking a starting quarterback, they have to learn and get comfortable with a new offense and -- this may sound overly simplistic -- get their starters ready for Week 1. They can't let the quarterback situation preoccupy them and become counterproductive for the team.

It seems like new GM John Idzik will follow the Seahawks' model from last preseason. The breakdown of the actual game reps shows it was basically a two-man race: Russell Wilson 138 snaps, Matt Flynn 99, Josh Portis 31 and Tarvaris Jackson eight, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Seahawks didn't have to learn a new system on the fly, a huge benefit.

In the Jets' version, rookie Geno Smith will play the role of Wilson; he'll get every chance to show he can play. Sanchez bears similarities to both Flynn (big contracts) and Jackson (incumbents on thin ice). He has to get a decent number of reps because he could be the starter or he could be trade bait. David Garrard is the wild card. He could be the fallback option if Smith isn't ready and Sanchez is shipped out, meaning he, too, will need quality reps. As for Greg McElroy and Matt Simms, one of them figures to be left behind when the team leaves for Cortland in late July. I wonder if Rex Ryan has any juggling experience.

P.S.: Before the final pre-season game, the Seahawks traded Jackson to the Bills. Will the same happen to Sanchez? A fascinating summer awaits.

1.a. Slow hand: One thing we've already learned about Idzik: He doesn't rush into big decisions. He let the Darrelle Revis soap opera play out for three months before pulling the trigger (in the end, a good move) and he held on to Tim Tebow until he exhausted all efforts, however futile, to trade him. You can bet he'll take his sweet time to sort out the quarterback situation.

2. Warming to Geno: Smith is getting beat up for a lot of things, but there's one criticism that makes no sense -- this notion that he's a poor cold-weather quarterback. In college, he was 4-1 when the game-time temperature was under 41 degrees. The lone defeat came last December against Syracuse in the snowy Pinstripe Bowl at Yankee Stadium. He was lousy, no question about it, but it was his only bad game in the cold. His stats in the five cold games read like this: 90-for-126 (71 percent), 1,215 yards, 10 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. If that's bad, the Jets would sign up for bad in a New York minute.

3. All hands on deck: Bills coach Doug Marrone, in an interview last week, provided some insight into why they preferred EJ Manuel over every quarterback in the draft. He said their research showed that quarterbacks with big hands tend to perform better in cold-weather cities. Of the five highest-drafted quarterbacks, Manuel has the biggest hands -- 10 3/8 inches from thumb to pinky. The smallest? That would be Smith (9 1/4 inches), which may explain why he had 32 fumbles in 39 career starts. In the aforementioned cold-weather games, Smith was charged with seven fumbles, losing three.

4. Xs and Os and Zzzz: The Smith texting story calls to mind a story that has become almost legendary at One Jets Drive. One time, a player on a pre-draft visit actually fell asleep while waiting outside the office of former GM Mike Tannenbaum. I'd love to reveal the identity of the player, but I promised I wouldn't. I'll just say this: The Jets didn't draft him; another AFC East team picked him in the first round. Conversely, there's the story of WR Stephen Hill, who visited the Jets last year in a business suit. Now that's the way you impress on a job interview.

5. Poor Tim: Tim Tebow could make history, but not the kind of history he covets. He could become only the second quarterback never to start another game after winning in the playoffs. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, via the Denver Post, the only quarterback in that club is Bob Lee. He started two playoff games for the Vikings in 1977, replacing the injured Fran Tarkenton, and that was all she wrote.

6. Chip off the old Pete: If you haven't figured it out by now, Idzik's mantra is "competition." Being around Pete Carroll for three years in Seattle probably rubbed off on him. That's Carroll's deal -- competition -- dating to his days at USC. In fact, Carroll used to have "Competition Tuesday" at USC, an intense practice in which players battled for starting jobs. He also designed "ComPete" T-shirts. Can anybody come up with an Idzik slogan? A couple of thoughts: "Let's Get Id On." Or maybe: "Let's 'Zik 'Em." Hey, there's a reason why I'm not in advertising.

7. No line (additions) on the horizon: This point was overlooked in the quarterback hysteria from last weekend, but by picking DT Sheldon Richardson, OL Brian Winters and two other offensive linemen, Idzik basically secured the offensive and defensive lines for the foreseeable future -- assuming the selections pan out. When you add them to the likes of D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold and Muhammad Wilkerson, the Jets should be solid in the trenches, a big step toward achieving sustainable success.

7.a. New York, New York, New York: There's a lot of local flavor on the O-Line. Ferguson is a product of Freeport High School on Long Island, rookie Oday Aboushi from Xaverian High in Brooklyn and Willie Colon from Cardinal Hayes in the Bronx. Colon grew up in the Melrose projects on 156th Street in the South Bronx, and he still has family there. Aboushi now lives in Staten Island.

8. 'Q' is for question mark: The decision to move Quinton Coples to outside linebacker is a head scratcher. At 280 pounds, he'd be the biggest linebacker in the league, raising questions about his ability to play in space and drop into coverage. The only linebackers close in weight are the Chiefs' Tamba Hali (275 pounds) and the Ravens' Courtney Upshaw (272). Ryan may see visions of Adalius Thomas in Coples. Thomas, who played for Ryan in Baltimore, was an athletic, 270-pound defensive end in college. He moved to outside linebacker and enjoyed a long, productive career. Coples is a fine athlete for an interior lineman, but you wonder if he has the quick-twitch speed to thrive on the edge.

9. Bargain hunting: So far, Idzik has added eight veteran free agents -- Garrard, RB Chris Ivory, RB Mike Goodson, S Dawan Landry, LB Antwan Barnes, G Willie Colon, DT Antonio Garay and G Stephen Peterman. Combined cost in up-front bonuses: $5.2 million. It reminds me of Bill Parcells' approach in 1997, when he added a bunch of "hold-the-fort" guys, as he called them. Of the Idzik additions, only two can be considered players on the ascent -- Ivory and Goodson. That's why they received the biggest signing bonuses -- $2.25 million and $1 million, respectively. 

[FloridaJetsFan]

Optimism on this board? Where am I and what have you done with JetNation?

[SenorGato]

2 - He lost against Syracuse in the snow and that happened last so...3 is telling me that he's going to be a fumble machine.

 

4 - My football boredom is making me a Stephen Hill fan. Suits are nice and classy, like myself.

 

5 - I hope the Tebow flies again. 

 

6 - Tss...ComPete...dats a good ones. Tss what about John Izadik or sumthin for when we turn on him? Tss...

 

7 - All Day Oday!

 

8 - Coples is a better athlete than both Upshaw and even Hali, who is a pretty badass player. Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas played close to 270 as did Jarrett Johnson...Willie McGinnest...Adalius Thomas was 6'2" and over 270 IIRC...The more I think about it the less I am worried about Coples' size though there is always Mario Williams blowing out his knee...

 

9 - He needs a couple more smart buys. I would suggest Charles Woodson or some other safety. 

[sirlancemehlot]

Cimini? Huh. Decent write up. Who knew he could get through an entire article without a singl snide comment. He keeps it up and I might start reading his stuff again.

[Jetscode1]

Cimini? Huh. Decent write up. Who knew he could get through an entire article without a singl snide comment. He keeps it up and I might start reading his stuff again.

 

I read the juggling comment as another snide comment...the guy has an agenda...it's rather obvious...

 

Sunday notes: The Jets' party of five

May, 5, 2013

May 5

5:00

AM ET

By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

Checking out the Jets on a sandwich Sunday, between the draft and rookie minicamp:

1. The Idzik Five: The Jets can bill it as a five-way quarterback competition now, but it's impossible to have a five-man battle in training camp. A four-way also would be difficult. Even a three-man fight would be pushing the envelope. Remember, two-a-day practices are history, so reps are at a premium. When they're in Cortland this summer, the Jets can't lose sight of the most important objectives. In addition to picking a starting quarterback, they have to learn and get comfortable with a new offense and -- this may sound overly simplistic -- get their starters ready for Week 1. They can't let the quarterback situation preoccupy them and become counterproductive for the team.

It seems like new GM John Idzik will follow the Seahawks' model from last preseason. The breakdown of the actual game reps shows it was basically a two-man race: Russell Wilson 138 snaps, Matt Flynn 99, Josh Portis 31 and Tarvaris Jackson eight, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Seahawks didn't have to learn a new system on the fly, a huge benefit.

In the Jets' version, rookie Geno Smith will play the role of Wilson; he'll get every chance to show he can play. Sanchez bears similarities to both Flynn (big contracts) and Jackson (incumbents on thin ice). He has to get a decent number of reps because he could be the starter or he could be trade bait. David Garrard is the wild card. He could be the fallback option if Smith isn't ready and Sanchez is shipped out, meaning he, too, will need quality reps. As for Greg McElroy and Matt Simms, one of them figures to be left behind when the team leaves for Cortland in late July. I wonder if Rex Ryan has any juggling experience.

P.S.: Before the final pre-season game, the Seahawks traded Jackson to the Bills. Will the same happen to Sanchez? A fascinating summer awaits.

1.a. Slow hand: One thing we've already learned about Idzik: He doesn't rush into big decisions. He let the Darrelle Revis soap opera play out for three months before pulling the trigger (in the end, a good move) and he held on to Tim Tebow until he exhausted all efforts, however futile, to trade him. You can bet he'll take his sweet time to sort out the quarterback situation.

2. Warming to Geno: Smith is getting beat up for a lot of things, but there's one criticism that makes no sense -- this notion that he's a poor cold-weather quarterback. In college, he was 4-1 when the game-time temperature was under 41 degrees. The lone defeat came last December against Syracuse in the snowy Pinstripe Bowl at Yankee Stadium. He was lousy, no question about it, but it was his only bad game in the cold. His stats in the five cold games read like this: 90-for-126 (71 percent), 1,215 yards, 10 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. If that's bad, the Jets would sign up for bad in a New York minute.

3. All hands on deck: Bills coach Doug Marrone, in an interview last week, provided some insight into why they preferred EJ Manuel over every quarterback in the draft. He said their research showed that quarterbacks with big hands tend to perform better in cold-weather cities. Of the five highest-drafted quarterbacks, Manuel has the biggest hands -- 10 3/8 inches from thumb to pinky. The smallest? That would be Smith (9 1/4 inches), which may explain why he had 32 fumbles in 39 career starts. In the aforementioned cold-weather games, Smith was charged with seven fumbles, losing three.

4. Xs and Os and Zzzz: The Smith texting story calls to mind a story that has become almost legendary at One Jets Drive. One time, a player on a pre-draft visit actually fell asleep while waiting outside the office of former GM Mike Tannenbaum. I'd love to reveal the identity of the player, but I promised I wouldn't. I'll just say this: The Jets didn't draft him; another AFC East team picked him in the first round. Conversely, there's the story of WR Stephen Hill, who visited the Jets last year in a business suit. Now that's the way you impress on a job interview.

5. Poor Tim: Tim Tebow could make history, but not the kind of history he covets. He could become only the second quarterback never to start another game after winning in the playoffs. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, via the Denver Post, the only quarterback in that club is Bob Lee. He started two playoff games for the Vikings in 1977, replacing the injured Fran Tarkenton, and that was all she wrote.

6. Chip off the old Pete: If you haven't figured it out by now, Idzik's mantra is "competition." Being around Pete Carroll for three years in Seattle probably rubbed off on him. That's Carroll's deal -- competition -- dating to his days at USC. In fact, Carroll used to have "Competition Tuesday" at USC, an intense practice in which players battled for starting jobs. He also designed "ComPete" T-shirts. Can anybody come up with an Idzik slogan? A couple of thoughts: "Let's Get Id On." Or maybe: "Let's 'Zik 'Em." Hey, there's a reason why I'm not in advertising.

7. No line (additions) on the horizon: This point was overlooked in the quarterback hysteria from last weekend, but by picking DT Sheldon Richardson, OL Brian Winters and two other offensive linemen, Idzik basically secured the offensive and defensive lines for the foreseeable future -- assuming the selections pan out. When you add them to the likes of D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold and Muhammad Wilkerson, the Jets should be solid in the trenches, a big step toward achieving sustainable success.

7.a. New York, New York, New York: There's a lot of local flavor on the O-Line. Ferguson is a product of Freeport High School on Long Island, rookie Oday Aboushi from Xaverian High in Brooklyn and Willie Colon from Cardinal Hayes in the Bronx. Colon grew up in the Melrose projects on 156th Street in the South Bronx, and he still has family there. Aboushi now lives in Staten Island.

8. 'Q' is for question mark: The decision to move Quinton Coples to outside linebacker is a head scratcher. At 280 pounds, he'd be the biggest linebacker in the league, raising questions about his ability to play in space and drop into coverage. The only linebackers close in weight are the Chiefs' Tamba Hali (275 pounds) and the Ravens' Courtney Upshaw (272). Ryan may see visions of Adalius Thomas in Coples. Thomas, who played for Ryan in Baltimore, was an athletic, 270-pound defensive end in college. He moved to outside linebacker and enjoyed a long, productive career. Coples is a fine athlete for an interior lineman, but you wonder if he has the quick-twitch speed to thrive on the edge.

9. Bargain hunting: So far, Idzik has added eight veteran free agents -- Garrard, RB Chris Ivory, RB Mike Goodson, S Dawan Landry, LB Antwan Barnes, G Willie Colon, DT Antonio Garay and G Stephen Peterman. Combined cost in up-front bonuses: $5.2 million. It reminds me of Bill Parcells' approach in 1997, when he added a bunch of "hold-the-fort" guys, as he called them. Of the Idzik additions, only two can be considered players on the ascent -- Ivory and Goodson. That's why they received the biggest signing bonuses -- $2.25 million and $1 million, respectively. 

[JoeKlecko]

I totally disagree with his "logic" in the first paragraph.  I don't think either McElroy or Simms will be left behind when they go to Cortland.  They may need all 5 arms in TC so the offense gets all the reps it needs, but if one is left behind, I think it will be Simms, as they may look to keep him on the PS.

 

I think it will be a 4-way competition but more in name than in reality, and will probably be more a 3-way competition between Garrard, Smith and Sanchez.  McElroy will get the fewest snaps, and I sincerely doubt that Smith gets the most reps.  At least I hope not.  I expect that Smith, Garrard and Sanchez will probably get an equal number of snaps.    If two of them do get the most, I think Garrard should get the majority of the snaps, as I think he gives the Jets the best chance to have a good season, and Smith should get the second most.  Unless they're planning on tanking so they can either get either Bridgewater, Manziel or Clowney, or plan to let Sanchez take a beating until the OL gels and then start Smith, Sanchez shouldn't even be a part of the equation.  While Mornhinweg should be a vast improvement over the likes of Schittenheimer and Sparano, he is still far from the top of the OC crop, and isn't known as a miracle worker.

[slats]

It seems like new GM John Idzik will follow the Seahawks' model from last preseason. The breakdown of the actual game reps shows it was basically a two-man race: Russell Wilson 138 snaps, Matt Flynn 99, Josh Portis 31 and Tarvaris Jackson eight, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Seahawks didn't have to learn a new system on the fly, a huge benefit.

In the Jets' version, rookie Geno Smith will play the role of Wilson; he'll get every chance to show he can play. Sanchez bears similarities to both Flynn (big contracts) and Jackson (incumbents on thin ice). He has to get a decent number of reps because he could be the starter or he could be trade bait. David Garrard is the wild card. He could be the fallback option if Smith isn't ready and Sanchez is shipped out, meaning he, too, will need quality reps. As for Greg McElroy and Matt Simms, one of them figures to be left behind when the team leaves for Cortland in late July. I wonder if Rex Ryan has any juggling experience.

Cimini has a point with the QBs. They'll do a little sorting in the upcoming minicamp, but they'll need to have a plan in place with the QBs before training camp starts. Practice reps are limited. The story of Geno going into that QB camp as the only one who knew the whole playbook works in his favor here. It's a new offense for everyone, the QB who can direct traffic from the new playbook will have an upper hand.

Bottom line, they need to come into camp knowing whether or not they intend to give Geno a shot to start at all. And if they do, who gets the squeeze between Sanchez and Garrard? I'd think Sanchez but, unfortunately, Rex is still talking him up. Maybe it's part of the pipe dream to get something for him in a trade?

P.S.: Before the final pre-season game, the Seahawks traded Jackson to the Bills. Will the same happen to Sanchez? A fascinating summer awaits.

The aforementioned pipe dream. I don't see it. It's possible that Sanchez gets cut, though, especially if he faces a wall of boos in the preseason (should he make it that far). The whole organization has to be acutely aware of how much the fans are completely done with Mark. Trotting him out as he starter will lead to a lot of empty seats, IMHO, and keeping him as a backup will be an ongoing distraction of Tebow-like proportions.

8. 'Q' is for question mark: The decision to move Quinton Coples to outside linebacker is a head scratcher. At 280 pounds, he'd be the biggest linebacker in the league, raising questions about his ability to play in space and drop into coverage. The only linebackers close in weight are the Chiefs' Tamba Hali (275 pounds) and the Ravens' Courtney Upshaw (272). Ryan may see visions of Adalius Thomas in Coples. Thomas, who played for Ryan in Baltimore, was an athletic, 270-pound defensive end in college. He moved to outside linebacker and enjoyed a long, productive career. Coples is a fine athlete for an interior lineman, but you wonder if he has the quick-twitch speed to thrive on the edge.

This is beyond absurd. Tamba Hali has 45 sacks in the four years since he's been a full time OLB, Quinton Coples weighs five pounds more than him, so you have to wonder if he has the quick-twitch speed to thrive on edge? Really, Rich? Even people who hate Rex have to admit the guy knows what he's doing with the defense, particularly the DL types. And also that's its highly unlikely that Coples will be used in any sort of conventional way.

[JiFtheOracle]

Cimini has a point with the QBs. They'll do a little sorting in the upcoming minicamp, but they'll need to have a plan in place with the QBs before training camp starts. Practice reps are limited. The story of Geno going into that QB camp as the only one who knew the whole playbook works in his favor here. It's a new offense for everyone, the QB who can direct traffic from the new playbook will have an upper hand.

This is beyond absurd. Tamba Hali has 45 sacks in the four years since he's been a full time OLB, Quinton Coples weighs five pounds more than him, so you have to wonder if he has the quick-twitch speed to thrive on edge? Really, Rich? Even people who hate Rex have to admit the guy knows what he's doing with the defense, particularly the DL types. And also that's its highly unlikely that Coples will be used in any sort of conventional way.

 

2 great points I was going to comment on.

 

The only thing I have to add and its more curiosity than anything else but after watching Hardknocks last year, I've got to hand it to Philbin - the idea to have both your A and B teams on the practice field at the same time, lined up on both sides of the 50 and having them run plays immediately after the other was finished, was pretty brilliant.  Especially under the new training camp limitations.  The Jets would be wise, if they are really running a 3 man competition, to do something similar.