ZachEY Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Having 16 mill in cap space guarantees nothing either though. Cromartie's probably gone after this season....where does that leave the Jets secondary? We have no good skill position players on offense and zero returning starters in the secondary next year most likely. True. And so, all the more reason to get picks for Revis. This team isn't competing this year and it's not competing next year. 32 million for Revis over that time period really doesn't help us. We're building for the future. It's not fun, but it is what it is when you team has bloated contracts at the top and almost non-existent talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 True. And so, all the more reason to get picks for Revis. This team isn't competing this year and it's not competing next year. 32 million for Revis over that time period really doesn't help us. We're building for the future. It's not fun, but it is what it is when you team has bloated contracts at the top and almost non-existent talent. You dont tank in the NFL though....the Pats are average. You try and get into the tournament every year. There's no rebuilding mode anymore. Rosters change every year while you lock up your stars. Not blaming Idzik for Revis, but this should have been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 You dont tank in the NFL though....the Pats are average. You try and get into the tournament every year. There's no rebuilding mode anymore. Rosters change every year while you lock up your stars. Not blaming Idzik for Revis, but this should have been avoided. There's a difference between tanking and not hamstringing the future for a present that is bleak. Revis held out twice on us and was heading for a 3rd. Some guys, you really just can't work with. He may have been great, but the league has a lot of great players, most of whom don't do what Revis did including threatening to sit out a season. Sorry, but I blame him exclusively for what happened, and have his track record to support me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Revis could not have been tagged though. And winning the division means little if your team still had no shot at doing anything once you're there. This team needs to win two games in a row before anyone can suggest getting hot come playoff time. When is the last time we won the division outright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Revis could not have been tagged next year. Milliner being a bust is not a reason to not trade Revis. That is a separate issue where the scouts aren't seeing what some casual fans apparently can. You have to evaluate the totality of the moves, we keep revis, we don't draft Milliner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 When is the last time we won the division outright? Pre-Brady. And? Have you been chomping at the bit to raise the AFCE Champions Banner? We've made it to two AFCCGs without doing so. I don't foresee a lot of satisfaction coming from being dismantled in the playoffs regardless of whether we were a wildcard team or won the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 There's a difference between tanking and not hamstringing the future for a present that is bleak. Revis held out twice on us and was heading for a 3rd. Some guys, you really just can't work with. He may have been great, but the league has a lot of great players, most of whom don't do what Revis did including threatening to sit out a season. Sorry, but I blame him exclusively for what happened, and have his track record to support me. He was a douche, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Pre-Brady. And? Have you been chomping at the bit to raise the AFCE Champions Banner? We've made it to two AFCCGs without doing so. I don't foresee a lot of satisfaction coming from being dismantled in the playoffs regardless of whether we were a wildcard team or won the division. 1998 I think, and before that was when Namath was around Something to be said for getting the stink of losing off us, imo.. All you guys talking rebuild are funny, we've been "rebuilding" for 40 years... this time it will be different though, amiright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 You have to evaluate the totality of the moves, we keep revis, we don't draft Milliner I don't know that to be the case. The Jets were going pure BPA. We had just taken 3 DTs (2 in round 1) in the past couple of drafts and they're all still on the team plus Harrison. And we still took a DT #13 overall. I think there's still a good chance they take Milliner at #9. He was the top guy on their board and they knew that even if they kept both Revis & Cromartie through the rest of the spring & summer without trading either, that the chances of bringing both back in 2014 was almost zero. Having Revis for 1 more season may have changed nothing, other than concealing Milliner's play for a season. More likely than not, I believe they still would have drafted Milliner at #9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 More likely than not, I believe they still would have drafted Milliner at #9. If that's the case, we have way bigger issues than we thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I don't know that to be the case. The Jets were going pure BPA. We had just taken 3 DTs (2 in round 1) in the past couple of drafts and they're all still on the team plus Harrison. And we still took a DT #13 overall. I think there's still a good chance they take Milliner at #9. He was the top guy on their board and they knew that even if they kept both Revis & Cromartie through the rest of the spring & summer without trading either, that the chances of bringing both back in 2014 was almost zero. Having Revis for 1 more season may have changed nothing, other than concealing Milliner's play for a season. More likely than not, I believe they still would have drafted Milliner at #9. I have doubts, purely from a $$ standpoint it's a lot of money to put in the position just with Cro and Revis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 1998 I think, and before that was when Namath was around Something to be said for getting the stink of losing off us, imo.. All you guys talking rebuild are funny, we've been "rebuilding" for 40 years... this time it will be different though, amiright? I don't know if it will be different. But, I do know throwing a ton of money at a problem at best got us to AFCCGs with an overmatched QB and left us in a terrible position. At the very least, we look to be building the right way. Beyond that, all I am is a fan with some hope that this time it'll work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 1998 I think, and before that was when Namath was around Something to be said for getting the stink of losing off us, imo.. All you guys talking rebuild are funny, we've been "rebuilding" for 40 years... this time it will be different though, amiright? Yeah, but this one was a full-on, gutting of the team ON PURPOSE. There was no illusion of patching things up here or there. To the point where >50% of the fans & media seem to have thought Idzik was setting up Rex so he could fire him after the season. We win 4 of our first 7 and suddenly people forget that for a while. This roster sucks. It was 2 years to get back to being a decent team and probably 3 to get to be a realistic powerhouse IF a QB is part of that rebuild and IF we use our rebuilding resources wisely. There was to be just that much turnover. You're talking about some 30 new players needed between starters & main backups. Impossible in 1 season, and improbable in 2 seasons (though there should be enough by then to be at least a .500 team without just getting lucky). All of it is window-dressing, though, without a QB. Hope Geno is that guy and he's just doing what rookies have traditionally done for decades: sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 If that's the case, we have way bigger issues than we thought. The problem was in assessing Milliner to be worthy of the 9th pick. The rationalization part of me says that Idzik trashed 90% of the scouting dept after the draft. The rest of it, though, is that it's still his pick. I've liked Idzik so far on balance, and still 100% agree with the Revis trade today just as much as then, but burning the 9th pick on a guy who looks like a full-on bust is a bitter pill to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I have doubts, purely from a $$ standpoint it's a lot of money to put in the position just with Cro and Revis A GM who just gutted the team of every high salary the team could get out of is not likely to bank on keeping $20M/year in cornerbacks. It's not that drafting a CB was a bad move; it's that they made a bad pick with Milliner whether they had 3 starter-worthy CBs on the team already or zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 The problem was in assessing Milliner to be worthy of the 9th pick. The rationalization part of me says that Idzik trashed 90% of the scouting dept after the draft. The rest of it, though, is that it's still his pick. I've liked Idzik so far on balance, and still 100% agree with the Revis trade today just as much as then, but burning the 9th pick on a guy who looks like a full-on bust is a bitter pill to swallow. The amount of skill position guys contributing around the league from rounds 4-6, while we take a tackle that has to hide in street clothes on the bench doesnt sit well either. Great- he drafted a fullback that doesnt suck. For the life of me I dont understand how this organization doesnt value skill position players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I don't know that to be the case. The Jets were going pure BPA. We had just taken 3 DTs (2 in round 1) in the past couple of drafts and they're all still on the team plus Harrison. And we still took a DT #13 overall. I think there's still a good chance they take Milliner at #9. He was the top guy on their board and they knew that even if they kept both Revis & Cromartie through the rest of the spring & summer without trading either, that the chances of bringing both back in 2014 was almost zero. Having Revis for 1 more season may have changed nothing, other than concealing Milliner's play for a season. More likely than not, I believe they still would have drafted Milliner at #9. If that's the case, we have way bigger issues than we thought. I have doubts, purely from a $$ standpoint it's a lot of money to put in the position just with Cro and Revis Sperm is right here. Say we do nothing with Revis and keep him for a year. Revis and Cro both would have been going into contract years. There was no guarantee either would be sticking around for 2014. Milliner would still have been the pick because he was the BPA on our board. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The amount of skill position guys contributing around the league from rounds 4-6, while we take a tackle that has to hide in street clothes on the bench doesnt sit well either. Great- he drafted a fullback that doesnt suck. For the life of me I dont understand how this organization doesnt value skill position players. Tavon Austin was the BPA for us at 9 until the Rams scooped him up. This has been well-documented. Sad too. He would have been reunited with Geno as his favorite target and we would have utilized him far better than Schottenheimer is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Tavon Austin was the BPA for us at 9 until the Rams scooped him up. This has been well-documented. Sad too. He would have been reunited with Geno as his favorite target and we would have utilized him far better than Schottenheimer is right now. Austin was overvalued going into the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Austin was overvalued going into the draft. Probably because of a lack of skill players in this draft overall. Who was Idzik supposed to go get if it wasn't Tavon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Yeah, but this one was a full-on, gutting of the team ON PURPOSE. There was no illusion of patching things up here or there. To the point where >50% of the fans & media seem to have thought Idzik was setting up Rex so he could fire him after the season. We win 4 of our first 7 and suddenly people forget that for a while. This roster sucks. It was 2 years to get back to being a decent team and probably 3 to get to be a realistic powerhouse IF a QB is part of that rebuild and IF we use our rebuilding resources wisely. There was to be just that much turnover. You're talking about some 30 new players needed between starters & main backups. Impossible in 1 season, and improbable in 2 seasons (though there should be enough by then to be at least a .500 team without just getting lucky). All of it is window-dressing, though, without a QB. Hope Geno is that guy and he's just doing what rookies have traditionally done for decades: sucked. meh, same old same old.. find a QB or we'll continue to suck no matter what approach to sucking Idzik appears to be taking (which so far doesn't seem all that different then Mangina). The reason this team has won 1 outright division title in 40 years is cause we've not had a QB while all of the other teams in the division has had one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Sperm is right here. Say we do nothing with Revis and keep him for a year. Revis and Cro both would have been going into contract years. There was no guarantee either would be sticking around for 2014. Milliner would still have been the pick because he was the BPA on our board. Sad but true. still not buying, there's no such thing as 100% BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Probably because of a lack of skill players in this draft overall. Who was Idzik supposed to go get if it wasn't Tavon? first round there wasnt. Thought both Ellington and Stills who were very good college players could have been targeted by us instead of linemen depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 still not buying, there's no such thing as 100% BPA Sure, if you have a glut at a position, you'll bypass the guy who's # 1 on your board and go to the # 2 guy. But when you have holes everywhere, BPA makes perfect sense. And that's exactly what Idzik did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 first round there wasnt. Thought both Ellington and Stills who were very good college players could have been targeted by us instead of linemen depth. Fair point, but remember that Stills is getting to play with Drew Brees. He's impressive but there's no guarantee he would have done well for us. Also, Ellington strikes me as being a little undersized, no? Lineman depth has been an issue for us for a while, so I don't mind those picks. Hopefully Aboushi brings SOMETHING to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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