Grade the Move: Mo & #20 to the Bears for #11

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, SenorGato said:

By multiple you mean literally two seasons for Seymour before missing half a season then retiring. No different than what happens to everyone great from Montana to Tomlinson. After that literally no one you listed did anything of note, and most of those guys aren't in the tier of a Richard Seymour or Mo Wilkerson. 

Of course he's worth it to the Jets - hence the tag being used at all and a complete lack of the desperation to make a move in all this time. 

The Jets used the tag on him because if they didn't then they couldn't trade him. 

He is not worth it to the Jets, and so far pretty much every team in the NFL says he's not worth it to them either. Eventually one will make whatever ends up being the top offer, and everyone else will have inferred that they think he's worth less than that to their teams.

[SenorGato]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Jets used the tag on him because if they didn't then they couldn't trade him. 

He is not worth it to the Jets, and so far pretty much every team in the NFL says he's not worth it to them either. Eventually one will make whatever ends up being the top offer, and everyone else will have inferred that they think he's worth less than that to their teams.

The Jets used the tag because he's worthy of having the tag on. The worst case scenario for them is they get a year with a great player before entering a season they have a huge amount of cap space. 

He's worth it to the Jets - nobody wants to use the franchise tag and you don't see it used otherwise. That some trade hasn't happened according to your latest imagining (an arbitrary and still vague deadline ) doesn't actually mean anything. Eventually he'll be traded for something more valuable (a pick that lands them a QB prospect like Goff) than he is or extended. 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The Jets used the tag because he's worthy of having the tag on. The worst case scenario for them is they get a year with a great player before entering a season they have a huge amount of cap space. 

He's worth it to the Jets - nobody wants to use the franchise tag and you don't see it used otherwise. That some trade hasn't happened according to your latest imagining (an arbitrary and still fake deadline ) is doesn't actually mean anything. Eventually he'll be traded for something more valuable (a pick that lands them a QB prospect like Goff) than he is or extended. 

They used the tag because they'd get nothing without tagging him. That is why the Jets didn't use the exclusive franchise tag on him: because they WANT to trade him and WANT him to be able to talk to other teams. If the Jets wanted to keep him they'd want exclusive negotiating rights, and they'd have it with the other tag, like Denver did with Miller and like other teams have done with other tagged players. The Jets purposely chose not to do this because they want to trade him and get something in return.

You seriously think the Jets aren't actively shopping him around, and that Mo's agent hasn't been talking to other teams, trying to get them to make offers to Mo and the Jets? 

What do you mean you don't see it used otherwise, lol. You didn't see the Jets do this exact same thing with John Abraham? They tagged him because it was the only way to get something for him in trade. The choices are to tag him or get nothing in trade. It doesn't happen often because other teams typically won't give up a draft pick for a player who needs such a huge contract. Tag & trade deals are hard to pull off.

[SenorGato]

hey used the tag because they'd get nothing without tagging him. That is why the Jets didn't use the exclusive franchise tag on him: because they WANT to trade him and WANT him to be able to talk to other teams.

Yeah this is a nice narrative and all Sperm, I do enjoy your dramatic tales, but they did it because they're smart. With one tag they have multiple avenues to explore and with another they don't. This really isn't anything more than good and plain common sense, as convincing as bold letters might otherwise be. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Yeah this is a nice narrative and all Sperm, I do enjoy your dramatic tales, but they did it because they're smart. With one tag they have multiple avenues to explore and with another they don't. This really isn't anything more than good and plain common sense, as convincing as bold letters might otherwise be. 

They have every avenue to explore with the other tag. They can still trade him. What the other tag does is it means other teams can't talk to him without the Jets' permission, same as a player already under contract.

A team that wants to keep him that badly just makes it happen and doesn't let him talk to other suitors.

[SenorGato]

 

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They have every avenue to explore with the other tag. They can still trade him. What the other tag does is it means other teams can't talk to him without the Jets' permission, same as a player already under contract.

A team that wants to keep him that badly just makes it happen and doesn't let him talk to other suitors.

Soooooo....less options available to them for the sake of having the same conversation they're having now. Makes total sense 

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 

Soooooo....less options available to them for the sake of having the same conversation they're having now. Makes total sense 

No, it's the same options to trade him. Further, it improves their ability to negotiate exclusively, to provide him no other outlet other than the Jets for a long term deal, if they so choose.

It couldn't be more obvious the Jets ideally want to trade him. It's not exactly a well-kept secret.

[SenorGato]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, it's the same options to trade him. Further, it improves their ability to negotiate exclusively, to provide him no other outlet other than the Jets for a long term deal, if they so choose.

It couldn't be more obvious the Jets ideally want to trade him. It's not exactly a well-kept secret.

No, if they were the same and offered the same opportunities to a franching team and FA there wouldn't be two different tags. Just as BJ Raji is not Wilkerson, the tags present two very different situations.

What is extremely obvious is that the Jets wanted all avenues open for the Wilkerson situation. The exclusive tag basically means they end up bidding against themselves or are forced to trade him and trade him cheap. The current situation is not even close to that, offering the Jets far more flexibility no matter what  happens.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, SenorGato said:

No, if they were the same and offered the same opportunities to a franching team and FA there wouldn't be two different tags. Just as BJ Raji is not Wilkerson, the tags present two very different situations.

What is extremely obvious is that the Jets wanted all avenues open for the Wilkerson situation. The exclusive tag basically means they end up bidding against themselves or are forced to trade him and trade him cheap. The current situation is not even close to that, offering the Jets far more flexibility no matter what  happens.

If the team wants it to be the same they can make it the same whenever they choose. The higher tag gives the team all the options to control all the negotiations and communication at the team's whim. It allows the team to say to the player it's us or no one for a minimum of 1 more season (with all the permanent injury risks that come with that). It helps the team's leverage by telling the player he's going nowhere. 

The Jets would keep him for a below-market deal (which Mo has been turning down since Idzik was the GM) otherwise they want to trade him and get something in return. Every leak says the 2 sides are and have been far apart. 

The exclusive tag means nothing close to the ridiculous things you claim, and if they didn't want to trade him they wouldn't be fielding offers and essentially announcing our asking price to the public to help solicit even more. 

[Be_a_Jet]

12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If it's the best offer any team in the league is willing to make for Wilkerson, then it's an A+. 

Any lower grades should equally fall to the other 30 teams that don't see this perceived higher trade value (who don't even have another young pair of DEs like we've got). Hardly anyone wants to fork over a high pick for the privilege of paying Mo's next contract (which could easily be the highest non-QB contract in NFL history).

You can want more in return, but that isn't on Maccagnan. If this was the top deal, and it was made on March 11, then it could garner a lower grade for jumping at an offer too soon. But he's been holding this card for over a month, and there were plenty of teams with a wealth of cap room since the league year began.

If this is the top offer it means there are 30 other teams that offered even less (with most offering nothing at all). 

So if it's the top offer, then A+ is the grade. I'm then happy we didn't just let him go without tagging him in the first place, and Maccagnan gets credit & kudos for gambling and winning.

You make sense here. Don't get how people don't see it this way.

I love Mo - its a damn shame that we never played his contract situation the right way because he should be a Jet for years to come. Having said that - there is close to no shot we give him the money he is demanding next year in part because its very high and in part because we have Richardson and Williams down the pipeline. He will get us a 3rd round Comp pick (for 2018) if he hits FA next year - have to weigh that against whatever draft pick is possible to attain this year to see if its worth it. 

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, Be_a_Jet said:

You make sense here. Don't get how people don't see it this way.

I love Mo - its a damn shame that we never played his contract situation the right way because he should be a Jet for years to come. Having said that - there is close to no shot we give him the money he is demanding next year in part because its very high and in part because we have Richardson and Williams down the pipeline. He will get us a 3rd round Comp pick (for 2018) if he hits FA next year - have to weigh that against whatever draft pick is possible to attain this year to see if its worth it. 

 

 

 

And I don't think we'd even get that. We'd have to stay away from every UFA while sitting on some $40M of cap room. 

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If the team wants it to be the same they can make it the same whenever they choose. The higher tag gives the team all the options to control all the negotiations and communication at the team's whim. It allows the team to say to the player it's us or no one for a minimum of 1 more season (with all the permanent injury risks that come with that). It helps the team's leverage by telling the player he's going nowhere. 

The Jets would keep him for a below-market deal (which Mo has been turning down since Idzik was the GM) otherwise they want to trade him and get something in return. Every leak says the 2 sides are and have been far apart. 

The exclusive tag means nothing close to the ridiculous things you claim, and if they didn't want to trade him they wouldn't be fielding offers and essentially announcing our asking price to the public to help solicit even more. 

Besides the first paragraph starting with the second second, which doesn't contradict anything I've said, none of this is right. With the exclusive tag the Jets are the only team that can negotiate with Wilkerson, only dramatically different from past conversations with Wilkerson's representatives in that things are coming to a head. With the non-exclusive tag there's way more new and different information for all sides to sift through that couldn't, wouldn't, and don't exist with the other tag (or the past where the Jets already had an exclusive window) but is pertinent to either trade or extension talks.

The Jets maybe WANT to trade him or maybe they don't. Either way, they ran with the tag that gives them alot more to work with. 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Besides the first paragraph starting with the second second, which doesn't contradict anything I've said, none of this is right. With the exclusive tag the Jets are the only team that can negotiate with Wilkerson, only dramatically different from past conversations with Wilkerson's representatives in that things are coming to a head. With the non-exclusive tag there's way more new and different information for all sides to sift through that couldn't, wouldn't, and don't exist with the other tag (or the past where the Jets already had an exclusive window) but is pertinent to either trade or extension talks.

The Jets maybe WANT to trade him or maybe they don't. Either way, they ran with the tag that gives them alot more to work with. 

They give him the exclusive tag if they 100% want to keep him.

If they want to trade him, which they are actively trying to do, they have only 1 good choice: non-exclusive franchise tag. There is nothing else the team can do if they want to get more than a chance at the ~100th pick in the 2017 draft. That is why they tagged him. The whole league, and every sportswriter, knows they tagged him to try to do a tag & trade. Those same people also said it would be difficult, which it has been.

Hopefully it ends well and we get a 1st. But if the best we can get is value of mid-2nd in 2016, it beats a compensatory pick in 2017 by a lot.

[SenorGato]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They give him the exclusive tag if they 100% want to keep him.

OK? Why would they want to be 100% anything when they don't have to be?

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, SenorGato said:

OK? Why would they want to be 100% anything when they don't have to be?

I explained why. Twice.

[SenorGato]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I explained why. Twice.

Clearly not well, maybe more bold letters?

If they trade him, they probably end up with a first outright or moving up while also picking up a player or later pick. There's no real desperation to get anything less, never has been. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Clearly not well, maybe more bold letters?

If they trade him, they probably end up with a first outright or moving up while also picking up a player or later pick. There's no real desperation to get anything less, never has been. 

The reason the Jets didn't hit him with the exclusive tag is they're not re-signing him. The exclusive tag does a couple of things, but none are things the Jets are interested in.

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The reason the Jets didn't hit him with the exclusive tag is they're not re-signing him.

That's one opinion, sure. I appreciate your #hottake but disagree still. They didn't give him the exclusive tag because it's unnecesarry and limiting to their offseason without really gaining them anything new or different from what's been.

[sirlancemehlot]

14 hours ago, SenorGato said:

AAA++++

Jets are free of their burden and can get maybe as high as the 11th(!!!) best player in the draft. Not only that, but they're now free to pluck up 3-4+ starters in FA. It's the kind of move that can turn a franchise around. You can WANT more, but remember that the Jets aren't dealing JJ Watt over here. To get a team to be so generous as this, for a burden like that, it's basically too good to be true. You've just been scienced. 

lmfao.  "Jets are free of their burden"   since when is a rate solid jets draft pick performing at a high level a burden?  So sad to be a Jets fan. Even when they get it right they **** it up somehow. Snacks, Mo, so glad to be relieved of your burdensome presence. Even though we had cap enough to wipe out assessment with last year. Good riddance!  So silly. We can't draft and when we finally get it right we toss a great young player aside because we have to pay so much for our franchise QB. oh wait. That's right. We don't have a QB. Welp....