PFSIKH Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 19 - I have not lived in New England since 1988. I am as removed from there as I could possibly be. Now, I live right outside KC. I see the state of baseball daily. I only disagree with one point on your post. I agree MLB has slipped from being America's past time, where it has fallen I disagree with, but that is a moot point. I agree that baseball has lost alot of fans. Average attendance is still down 3000K fans from just prior to the strike. Here is where I disagree. If Curt said the policy is a joke and there are people in the game who are on or have used roids, that casts a cloud of doubt over everybody. Here is the problem, who is the public going to point a finger at? Not the many clean players out there. It will be McGwire, Sosa and Bonds. Right or wrong, they will be judged to have used it. There goes the great homerun chase of 1998 when baseball was declared to be back. There goes Bonds record of 73 in 2001. The top six HR seasons on the books are wiped out. If Bonds finally passes Ruth and Aaron, that has an asterik next to it like Maris had when he hit 61. Everything that brought people to the park is gone. The over 600,000,000 million people that have attended games since the strike will feel jilted because all the money they handed over will be for a questionable era. The sanctity of the records will forever be cast in doubt. Again, baseball is as much about records as it is the game. The chase for 755 homeruns, 61 homeruns, 20 wins, 50 homeruns, hitting .300 or .400, ,200 hits 3,000 hits or 300 wins. All these numbers mean something in baseball. They are benchmarks for a season or career. If Curt was honest, the numbers accumulated over the past 10 years mean little if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 19 - I have not lived in New England since 1988. I am as removed from there as I could possibly be. Now, I live right outside KC. I see the state of baseball daily. Again, baseball is as much about records as it is the game. The chase for 755 homeruns, 61 homeruns, 20 wins, 50 homeruns, hitting .300 or .400, ,200 hits 3,000 hits or 300 wins. All these numbers mean something in baseball. They are benchmarks for a season or career. If Curt was honest, the numbers accumulated over the past 10 years mean little if anything. Thse two points I'll disagree with. Well, the first one really isn't a point. I mostly meant you needed to remove yourself from being a Sox fan caught up in the Sox/Yanks rivalry. But, that's neither here or there. I know you're not close to the NE area. Geographically, anyway. And, being in KC, and seeing the Royals every day, you know fan support isn't there. And, since the strike, there have been a few teams added. So, you have to take into account those new fans that go to those stadiums. Yes, baseball has a rich history and is about their records, but as much as the players and former players lied about the roid use, the fans don't really care or recognize today's records. Hell, fans today don't think today's players are as good as yesterday's players. Baseballs history is safe. Their current is what is in trouble, as far as records go. The fans, probably, could care less. As in, they're just at the stadiums to see home runs. Well, the fair weather fan, anyway. Today's society has a very short attention span. Mainstream, anyway. Sports fans, like the ones on this board, will remember this. People who are dragged to games and only watch the playoffs won't remember or care. That is, until it affects them, in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Thse two points I'll disagree with. Well, the first one really isn't a point. I mostly meant you needed to remove yourself from being a Sox fan caught up in the Sox/Yanks rivalry. But, that's neither here or there. I know you're not close to the NE area. Geographically, anyway. And, being in KC, and seeing the Royals every day, you know fan support isn't there. And, since the strike, there have been a few teams added. So, you have to take into account those new fans that go to those stadiums. Yes, baseball has a rich history and is about their records, but as much as the players and former players lied about the roid use, the fans don't really care or recognize today's records. Hell, fans today don't think today's players are as good as yesterday's players. Baseballs history is safe. Their current is what is in trouble, as far as records go. The fans, probably, could care less. As in, they're just at the stadiums to see home runs. Well, the fair weather fan, anyway. Today's society has a very short attention span. Mainstream, anyway. Sports fans, like the ones on this board, will remember this. People who are dragged to games and only watch the playoffs won't remember or care. That is, until it affects them, in some way. I agree. KC does ok as far attendance goes. Their is a pasion for it here to a degree. Even in crappy years they draw 18-20K to the ball park which is located as far East in the city as possibly could be and while nice is way behind the times in ammenities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 The Tigers have had rough times, lately. Crappy drafts, not to mention the horrible 2003 season, have taken their toll. But, they almost had 3 million in total attendance last year. This town, if anything else, is a sports town and we'll support a team who tries. How else can I explain Fords Field selling out every home game? Besides, I think the hearings were much adu about nothing. Just a bunch of hot air. Congress had to have known they weren't going to find out anything. The MLB players were going to tow company line, even if it meant lying out their a$$. Curt wasn't the only one who lied (Sosa, McGuire), but he's the only one who was vocal with the other stance before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Bottomline: the players shouldn't have been there in the first place. Grill Selig and Fehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 19, 2005 Author Share Posted March 19, 2005 Bottomline: the players shouldn't have been there in the first place. Grill Selig and Fehr. Why? Curt Schilling has been running his mouth for years about the steriod issue, Congress asked him there because of out spoken he has been. The camera whore will talk to anybody with a lens now all of the sudden , when it comes time to "tell the truth,the whole truth & nothing but the truth, so help you god" he lies? Mr.God raised his hand to tell the truth and lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Why? Curt Schilling has been running his mouth for years about the steriod issue, Congress asked him there because of out spoken he has been. The camera whore will talk to anybody with a lens now all of the sudden , when it comes time to "tell the truth,the whole truth & nothing but the truth, so help you god" he lies? Mr.God raised his hand to tell the truth and lied. What did he say that was a lie? I need a specific quote here. Look here is the lowdown on Schilling: When he beats you, you f-ing hate him as it burns you so much that he talks all that junk and then backs it up to jack yo ass out of the playoffs. Then your level of hate for the guy reaches an alltime high. You also have to see every media clip of him everyday which only compells your rage. When he plays for you, you really like him but then wish he'd shut the hell up as he talks too much but you are willing to let it slide as he wins. He just wins. I'm not a huge fan of Schilling the person, but I am of the player. But I said that the players should not have been there and I stand by that. They were a total distraction. This is true as all we're talking about is what Schill said and what McGwire said. Fehr and Selig are the 2 yahoos that should be spoken about. And mostly Fehr. These were the guys that ALLOWED the players to do what they did. Don't put this on the players themselves. It's their ironfisted Union leader and the Commish. So call off the yankee dogs on Schilling as it is getting pathetic, not to say very old. Sic 'em on Fehr and Selig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybroome Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 If you get pulled over and refuse the breathalizer what happens? Exactly! He's GUILTY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 If you get pulled over and refuse the breathalizer what happens? Most of us lose our licenses, but I think you might end up with a funny taste in your mouth. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Most of us lose our licenses, but I think you might end up with a funny taste in your mouth. :wink: What concernes me is how you are familiar with that taste? Or how you even know there is a taste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 What did he say that was a lie? I need a specific quote here. Look here is the lowdown on Schilling: When he beats you, you f-ing hate him as it burns you so much that he talks all that junk and then backs it up to jack yo a$$ out of the playoffs. Then your level of hate for the guy reaches an alltime high. You also have to see every media clip of him everyday which only compells your rage. When he plays for you, you really like him but then wish he'd shut the hell up as he talks too much but you are willing to let it slide as he wins. He just wins. I'm not a huge fan of Schilling the person, but I am of the player. But I said that the players should not have been there and I stand by that. They were a total distraction. This is true as all we're talking about is what Schill said and what McGwire said. Fehr and Selig are the 2 yahoos that should be spoken about. And mostly Fehr. These were the guys that ALLOWED the players to do what they did. Don't put this on the players themselves. It's their ironfisted Union leader and the Commish. So call off the yankee dogs on Schilling as it is getting pathetic, not to say very old. Sic 'em on Fehr and Selig. Im sorry but did you even watch the hearings? If you did you would have seen the part after about 4 hours and curt kissing the panels ass they asked him why he seemed to be kissing MLB ass when they asked him there because of how ou spoken he has been in the past and he didn't answer them,he just turned red and bowed his head down? A little info for you...Ive hated Curt Schilling since he was as a$$hole on the Phillies. Most Baseball fans do. It's only the Redsox fans who think Schillings is all the sudden somebody because he plays in boston. The rest of the world and I have thought he was a drama queen tool since day 1. So save your little speach. Curt Schilling has been an a$$hole since i was in HS. Get a grip dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Curt Schilling has been an a$$hole since i was in HS. No kidding. I even stated as much in my post. You still haven't provide me with an EXACT quote that suggests Schilling committed purjery. I suggest you read Shaughnessy's column today in the Globe. Read it with, although near impossible, an OPEN mind. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/03/20/schilling_remains_point_man/ Pay close attention to this quote: "In 19 years I've been in the game, I have never seen steroids in pill form, in liquid form," he said. "I have never seen a player inject himself with steroids. I absolutely believe players have taken it and are taking it, but I could not sit here and tell you who." a$$hole or not, you cannot argue this point. And that is what he said in court. He spun a story in SI a few years back, but when UNDER OATH he told the truth that he had never seen anyone take steroids but has no doubt some players took them. We have never seen a player inject, but we sure as hell know they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 What concernes me is how you are familiar with that taste? Or how you even know there is a taste Touche Pink Panther. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 No kidding. I even stated as much in my post. You still haven't provide me with an EXACT quote that suggests Schilling committed purjery. I suggest you read Shaughnessy's column today in the Globe. Read it with, although near impossible, an OPEN mind. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/03/20/schilling_remains_point_man/ Pay close attention to this quote: "In 19 years I've been in the game, I have never seen steroids in pill form, in liquid form," he said. "I have never seen a player inject himself with steroids. I absolutely believe players have taken it and are taking it, but I could not sit here and tell you who." a$$hole or not, you cannot argue this point. And that is what he said in court. He spun a story in SI a few years back, but when UNDER OATH he told the truth that he had never seen anyone take steroids but has no doubt some players took them. We have never seen a player inject, but we sure as hell know they did it. I don't need an exact quote to prove my point ,you just did. Schilling was either a complete liar prior to the hearings or he lied during them. because he told 2 different versions of how he viewed steriods in MLB. So he lied either way you slice it. All going back to my point about him being an a$$hole. from long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Here.... I'll pat guys on the ass, and they'll look at me and go, 'Don't hit me there, man. It hurts,'" Schilling says. "That's because that's where they shoot the steroid needles." Schilling says that muscle-building drugs have transformed baseball into something of a freak show. "You sit there and look at some of these players and you know what's going on," he says. "Guys out there look like Mr. Potato Head, with a head and arms and six or seven body parts that just don't look right. They don't fit. I'm not sure how [steroid use] snuck in so quickly, but it's become a prominent thing very quietly. It's widely known in the game. "I know guys who use and don't admit it because they think it means they don't work hard. And I know plenty of guys now are mixing steroids with human growth hormone. Those guys are pretty obvious." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 AP: Baseball Agrees to Drop Steroid Fines By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer 5 hours ago Baseball commissioner Bud Selig answers questions during an informal ... NEW YORK - After listening to criticism from Congress, baseball players and owners agreed to drop the possibility of fines for steroid use and leave suspensions as the only discipline. Members of Congress repeatedly pummeled baseball officials for the fine possibility during Thursday's hearing before the House Government Reform Committee. Management told the committee it was willing to eliminate the fine provision, held over from baseball's first drug-testing agreement in 2002, but union head Donald Fehr said he would have to consult with players. "We do have an agreement with Don that the language after the disjunctive in the various disciplinary levels is going to be eliminated," Rob Manfred, baseball's executive vice president for labor relations, said Sunday. "It will be just the straight suspension, which everybody knew was going to happen anyway. To the degree there was any doubt, I think this change should put to rest any concerns in that regard." Players and owners announced the agreement Jan. 13, but it hasn't been finalized. "The agreement still has to be ratified, but the negotiators have agreed to modify that language," said Michael Weiner, the union's general counsel. Commissioner Bud Selig repeatedly said during the hearing that his intent was to suspend players for all positive tests. "We're glad the policy is now closer to what it was purported to be," David Marin, spokesman for committee chairman Tom Davis, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "If our inquiry achieves nothing more than getting baseball to give its policy the teeth it said it had, we will have done some real good." Baseball's new agreement had called for a 10-day suspension or up to $10,000 fine for a first positive test. A second positive was to result in a 30-day suspension or up to $25,000 fine, a third in a 60-day suspension or up to $50,000 fine and a four in a one-year suspension or up to $100,000 fine. After that, discipline is determined by the commissioner. Now, it's suspensions only. Earlier Sunday, Sen. John McCain said he thought legislation may be needed to force a tougher plan. "It just seems to me they can't be trusted," the Arizona Republican told ABC's "This Week" on Sunday. "It seems to me that we ought to seriously consider ... a law that says all professional sports have a minimum level of performance-enhancing drug testing." Davis said on CBS' "Face the Nation" that he agreed with McCain's suggestion that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency could be called in to govern baseball's testing. The agency oversees drug testing and discipline for U.S. Olympic athletes. "They've got this season. We'll see how they respond when they find someone testing positive," the Virginia Republican said. The fine aspect was a joke to the guilty players as punishment- suspensions are the only real punishment- It gets really bad when you make politicians look good the way Selig and company have done with this whole drug problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 *A swing and miss... strike three, you're out!* Way to step up to the plate Bud! </sarcasm> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Smizzy: your ORIGINAL point was that Schilling lied in court. I challenged that and you came back with an old SI article. I say he told the truth last Thursday. What he said 4 years ago in SI is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Smizzy: your ORIGINAL point was that Schilling lied in court. I challenged that and you came back with an old SI article. I say he told the truth last Thursday. What he said 4 years ago in SI is another matter. Well i say he told the truth 4 years ago and lied in court,now prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Well i say he told the truth 4 years ago and lied in court,now prove me wrong. I say it's the other way around. Who is right and who is wrong? Only Schilling knows. We can beat this one to death but I don't see the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 I say it's the other way around. Who is right and who is wrong? Only Schilling knows. We can beat this one to death but I don't see the point. You see my point though right? i was under the impression he told the truth before....you are giving him the benifit of the doubt. I love you SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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