Chad Pennington, MVP?

[JohnnyHector]

answer the question how many games do titans win without collins

they are tracking to 14-2 and 1 seed

without him, what record would they have?

It depends... who is in his place? Vince Young or just any average starting-caliber NFL QB?

Tennessee is 24th in passing yards and Collins has a sub-60% completion rate to go along with the whopping 11 TD's he has thrown in 12 games.

What has he done to distinguish himself that makes you think nobody else could have Tennessee at 12-1 right now?

[afosomf]

It depends... who is in his place? Vince Young or just any average starting-caliber NFL QB?

Tennessee is 24th in passing yards and Collins has a sub-60% completion rate to go along with the whopping 11 TD's he has thrown in 12 games.

What has he done to distinguish himself that makes you think nobody else could have Tennessee at 12-1 right now?

with young 9-7 tops

collins is MVP on a **** teams that will go 14-2

he will get a ton of votes

[JohnnyHector]

their only marquis win was dallas

how did they win that game skippy?

on a blocked punt in OT, also scored on KO return

AZ blows

And they also haven't lost a game that they should have won... beating teams that you're "supposed to" counts in the standings as well. Besides, I never anointed them the team to beat in the NFC.

And now the manner in which you win the game matters?

Do me a favor then and recalculate the record of every NFL team after you negate all non-offensive TD's and post the results.

[JohnnyHector]

with young 9-7 tops

collins is MVP on a **** teams that will go 14-2

he will get a ton of votes

Forget Young, he sucks. Plug in a middle-of-the-road NFL starting QB and tell me what their record is... say someone like Kyle Orton or Jason Campbell.

[Aqua4ever04]

Quarterbacks since 2000 to win MVP:

2001 - Kurt Warner - 4,830 Yards/36 TDs/#1 Ranked Offense/14-2/NFC Champions

2002 - Rich Gannon - 4,689 Yards/26 TDs/#2 Ranked Offense/11-5/AFC Champions

2003 - Peyton Manning - 4,267 Yards/29 TDs/#2 Ranked Offense/12-4/Loss in AFC Championship

2003 - Steve McNair - 3,215 Yards/24 TDs/#5 Ranked Offense/12-4/Loss in Divisional Round

2004 - Peyton Manning - 4,557 Yards/49 TDs/#1 Ranked Offense/12-4/Loss in Divisional Round

2006 - Tom Brady - 4,806 Yards/50 TDs/#1 Ranked Offense (ever)/16-0/AFC Champions

2008 (INCOMPLETE) - Chad Pennington - 3,062 Yards/12 TDs :rl:/#23 Ranked Offense/8-5

You still think he'll get even a vote?

How many of those teams had a 1-15 roster to deal with?

[124]

If Chad Pennington wins league MVP there should no longer be such an award. I like Chad but he is far from league MVP. John Beck would have at least 6 wins with this team. At least.

[Aqua4ever04]

If Chad Pennington wins league MVP there should no longer be such an award. I like Chad but he is far from league MVP. John Beck would have at least 6 wins with this team. At least.

While I agree he doesn't deserve the MVP, you can't be serious with that John Beck commet. And I'm a very pro-Beck guy.

[124]

While I agree he doesn't deserve the MVP, you can't be serious with that John Beck commet. And I'm a very pro-Beck guy.

I think Beck could've managed this team to 6-7. Why not? I can't think of more than two games where Chad was that outstanding and the game was that close that Beck couldn't have pulled out.

[Aqua4ever04]

I think Beck could've managed this team to 6-7. Why not? I can't think of more than two games where Chad was that outstanding and the game was that close that Beck couldn't have pulled out.

I thought you meant at this point; misunderstanding there.

However, I don't think John would've beat Denver, Seattle, Oakland, St. Louis or Buffalo. Each of these games we DESTROYED our opponent in time of possession and that was a direct result of Chad's completion percentage. In four of those games, we possessed the ball for 10 minutes or more in the fourth quarter. Chad has been masterful in the fourth quarter for the most part this year.

By the way, glad we cleared things up, man.

You're just a silly Jets homer; no reason we can't get along.

[124]

Ray Lucas > Chad Pennington.

[Aqua4ever04]

Ray Lucas > Chad Pennington.

Who?

That name is dead to me. Destroyer of a great team in 2002. We're 5-1, Ricky has an MVP type of year, Fiedler has us at 5-1 leading us to a HUGE win in Denver with a broken thumb; insert "The name we do not speak of" and the season heads south.

Congrats, man, you've brought a tear to my eye on this wonderful evening.

[124]

Who?

That name is dead to me. Destroyer of a great team in 2002.

Congrats, man, you've brought a tear to my eye on this wonderful evening.

I remember a game in 2002 where the Fish came into the Meadowlands on SNF and it was Chad vs Lucas and the Jets barely pulled it out (13-10 I believe?). I still to this day havn't heard the stadium louder. Maybe I need to clean my ears out, but still havn't heard it louder. Jacksonville 98, GB & IND 02, Oakland 06... nope. Nothing compares for some reason.

[Aqua4ever04]

I remember a game in 2002 where the Fish came into the Meadowlands on SNF and it was Chad vs Lucas and the Jets barely pulled it out (13-10 I believe?). I still to this day havn't heard the stadium louder. Maybe I need to clean my ears out, but still havn't heard it louder. Jacksonville 98, GB & IND 02, Oakland 06... nope. Nothing compares for some reason.

Yeah you guys stifled Ricky in that one; he did nothing and we lost despite Lucas not turning it over. I'm pretty sure that's the game where Chambers had a beautiful catch in the end zone incorrectly called incomplete. Could've been a different year, though.

[124]

Yeah you guys stifled Ricky in that one; he did nothing and we lost despite Lucas not turning it over. I'm pretty sure that's the game where Chambers had a beautiful catch in the end zone incorrectly called incomplete. Could've been a different year, though.

Didn't I tell you that Chambers is garbage? Where has he been this year?

That is the only game we won in 2002 & 2003 with Miami. Funny thing is we've won every singe other game from 1998-2001 and 2004-present except one game in 2005.

[Aqua4ever04]

Didn't I tell you that Chambers is garbage? Where has he been this year?

That is the only game we won in 2002 & 2003 with Miami. Funny thing is we've won every singe other game from 1998-2001 and 2004-present except one game in 2005.

He is far from garbage. The San Diego offense is in heavy turmoil this year and Chris has been hurt since the game in Miami. He did have 5 touchdowns through 5 games before the injury. I hope he re-signs with Miami in 2009 after he becomes a FA; he's my favorite player ever.

Bleh, it's getting old. That **** ends December 28th.

[124]

Bleh, it's getting old. That **** ends December 28th.

Even Miami has to beat the Jets once in a while.

[ZachEY]

How many of those teams had a 1-15 roster to deal with?

Ha.... The award isn't given to the guy who takes ****, and makes them decent.

The award is given to the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Chads numbers are basically half those above.

Sorry, you have no counterpoint. Go back to your shame hole.

[ZachEY]

Oh, and MVP is not based on a curve.

That's CBPOTY. An award Chad will win, embarrassingly, for the 2nd time in his career.

[124]

:rl:

EY, I just noticed the change from Ghost to Ghey under Pennington.

[Aqua4ever04]

Ha.... The award isn't given to the guy who takes ****, and makes them decent.

The award is given to the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Chads numbers are basically half those above.

Sorry, you have no counterpoint. Go back to your shame hole.

How many wins would the Dolphins have without Chad?

He might be one of the most VALUABLE players in the NFL. Not the most outstanding, but certainly one of the most valuable.

[JohnnyHector]

How many wins would the Dolphins have without Chad?

He might be one of the most VALUABLE players in the NFL. Not the most outstanding, but certainly one of the most valuable.

I will give you one thing... I don't know that there is another QB in the league who could direct a team to be top-10 in net offensive yardage and bottom-10 in both points scored and possessions in the red zone. It's really quite an impressive feat.

[HardKoreXXX]

The Fins defense is 9th in PPG, and the offense is 23rd in PPG.

The Fins are tied for 5th in Rush TDs, and 23rd in Pass TDs.

And sure, the Titans are better in those areas... But they're also 12-1, and the Dolphins are 8-5.

So really, your point about Collins falls flat on its face.

I find it hilarious any time a Jets fan gives props to a Dolphins team. You hate Chad sooooo much you're trying to disprove my logic by pointing out how great the Phins are.

[HardKoreXXX]

If Chad Pennington wins league MVP there should no longer be such an award. I like Chad but he is far from league MVP. John Beck would have at least 6 wins with this team. At least.

You just lost ALOT of my respect with this post bro. You're better than that.

[CTM]

How many of those teams had a 1-15 roster to deal with?

I feel bad for you.

[CTM]

How many wins would the Dolphins have without Chad?

He might be one of the most VALUABLE players in the NFL. Not the most outstanding, but certainly one of the most valuable.

Insert McNown or Henne and they finish 8-8 or 9-7

how many wins would Chad and miami have with Cam Cameron here?

3?

How many wins would Miami have with Cincinnati's schedule?

3?

[CTM]

I find it hilarious any time a Jets fan gives props to a Dolphins team. You hate Chad sooooo much you're trying to disprove my logic by pointing out how great the Phins are.

You're coaching staff has been excellent. Your running backs have been very good and Joey Porter's turnaround was completely unexpected.

Also, you're receivers are better then anyone thought, but that also can be attributed to Henning and Chad being an upgrade over Cameron/Beck/Lemon

[crashingjet]

You are soo stupid. I feel bad for you.

Why? If somebody's stupid, why should you care, especially if they're a Dolphin fan. If you're gonna pitty somebody, mean it, don't just hand out false pitty's, you'll end up being like the boy who cried wolf, eventually nobody will believe you.

[CTM]

Why? If somebody's stupid, why should you care, especially if they're a Dolphin fan. If you're gonna pitty somebody, mean it, don't just hand out false pitty's, you'll end up being like the boy who cried wolf, eventually nobody will believe you.

I pity you and Aqueer3ever equally..

(I also edited out the stupid remark)

[crashingjet]

Insert McNown or Henne and they finish 8-8 or 9-7

how many wins would Chad and miami have with Cam Cameron here?

3?

How many wins would Miami have with Cincinnati's schedule?

3?

BS.

What if?

What if?

What if?

What if?

What if the Jets benched Favre for Clemons?

What if Calvin Pace was moved to saftey?

What if the Jets had their own Stadium?

What if the Jets could win in California?

What if the Jets had cap room?

[afosomf]

Insert McNown or Henne and they finish 8-8 or 9-7

how many wins would Chad and miami have with Cam Cameron here?

3?

How many wins would Miami have with Cincinnati's schedule?

3?

Ctm you are wrong

with sage rosensfels/cleo lemon they won 1 game

i doubt henne would give them more than 4 wins

chad has to take some credit, he has not lost many games for them.

if they win div, he will gain many votes for MVP..whether u like him or not

[124]

You just lost ALOT of my respect with this post bro. You're better than that.

Why is it so far fetched to think John Beck couldn't have managed Miami to a 6-7 record? Chad Pennington did not go out there and win games for Miami this year, he managed them.

Do not bash on Beck because he had a horrible coaching staff and Offensive Line last season. Not to mention no Ronnie Brown who you all dub as the second coming of Gale Sayers / Emmitt Smith / Walter Payton.

Beck could've beaten New England Week 3 (Wildcat was the reason you won that game alone, admit it).

Beck could've beaten Seattle.

Beck could've beat San Diego.

Beck could've beaten Buffalo both times.

And Beck could've beaten St.Louis.

I'd say the only games Beck wouldn't have been able to win were the Denver game and the Oakland game since you needed a late drive to get down there and get a FG. Don't know if he would be able to do that.

[JohnnyHector]

Ctm you are wrong

with sage rosensfels/cleo lemon they won 1 game

i doubt henne would give them more than 4 wins

chad has to take some credit, he has not lost many games for them.

if they win div, he will gain many votes for MVP..whether u like him or not

First off, Sage Rosenfels hasn't been on Miami since 2005, so you mean that the three-headed monster of Lemon/Beck/Green won 1 game last year. You are also neglecting the fact that the team has an entirely different coaching staff, added key players on the OL, and got back two quality RB's. Add in that the defense has improved drastically, while the offense has barely improved (from a scoring standpoint) from last year's performance, and I don't see how Pennington is getting the lion's share of credit from people for the turnaround.

[afosomf]

First off, Sage Rosenfels hasn't been on Miami since 2005, so you mean that the three-headed monster of Lemon/Beck/Green won 1 game last year. You are also neglecting the fact that the team has an entirely different coaching staff, added key players on the OL, and got back two quality RB's. Add in that the defense has improved drastically, while the offense has barely improved (from a scoring standpoint) from last year's performance, and I don't see how Pennington is getting the lion's share of credit from people for the turnaround.

They have always had Ronnie Brown

Oh my i missed green with sage..oh my

shoot me

to assume phins win all these other games with beck/henne is assinine

[JohnnyHector]

They have always had Ronnie Brown

Oh my i missed green with sage..oh my

shoot me

to assume phins win all these other games with beck/henne is assinine

Ronnie Brown got hurt in the 7th game of the season last year, so he missed more than half the season.

And allow me to attempt to explain this one more time... I'm not talking about putting Beck or Henne in his place, as neither has the experience (or in Beck's case, the skillset) to expect success. I am, however, asking you if an average NFL starting QB - say Kyle Orton or Jason Campbell - could provide the same results in the standings that Pennington has. I mean, you're talking about MVP of the league here, not about being the best QB currently on the roster of the Miami Dolphins.

If there's 15-20 other guys currently playing in the NFL that could achieve the same results, then I don't see how Pennington is worthy of even the slightest consideration for MVP.

[crashingjet]

Why is it so far fetched to think John Beck couldn't have managed Miami to a 6-7 record? Chad Pennington did not go out there and win games for Miami this year, he managed them.

Do not bash on Beck because he had a horrible coaching staff and Offensive Line last season. Not to mention no Ronnie Brown who you all dub as the second coming of Gale Sayers / Emmitt Smith / Walter Payton.

Beck could've beaten New England Week 3 (Wildcat was the reason you won that game alone, admit it).

Beck could've beaten Seattle.

Beck could've beat San Diego.

Beck could've beaten Buffalo both times.

And Beck could've beaten St.Louis.

I'd say the only games Beck wouldn't have been able to win were the Denver game and the Oakland game since you needed a late drive to get down there and get a FG. Don't know if he would be able to do that.

Haha, oh man, that's a good one... You almost hade me there. Heh, Beck could've won those games, haha that's funny. Yeah, good one 124, you have a fine sense of humor. Ohhh man, I can't stop laughing, my sides are hurting.. Hahhaha, stop, stop, no more funny posts like this, I can't keep laughing so hard.