JI/JN Border War Mafia Game Thread

[Joe Cabot]

I see people are back on the train for those inactive / under the radar folks, but to be honest I think its too little, too late. At this point we no longer have the luxury of trying to "find things out" or not worrying about disposing of those who aren't contributing. Yesterday we could have gone that route and still been fine, but not today. The fact is that its our own fault that we're in this situation. As I said yesterday, despite how he may have been acting, the lynching of EY provided us with absolutely no information on any other players. EY was lynched anyway and a day later we sit here without any better ideas of what is going on than we did yesterday.

I was all for lynching Sonny yesterday (and probably would've been fine with Tony as well), but 2 innocent deaths and a possible conversion later and the strategy has to change. We are now in the situation were we have to lynch scum, not just gather information or get rid of dead weight. And I'm not sure Sonny or Tony are going to give us that. Is it possible one of them is scum? Sure, but outside of their lack of contributions (whether it just be overall posting or posting with good content) I'm not sure what the big cases against either man are. And if they were scum, does anyone honestly believe they would continue to act in the same manner for days on end? I seriously doubt it. Think back about the countless number of times we've lynched players in the many JN mafia games for this exact reason. How many times did any of those players actually turn up scum? I can't think of a single one. Early on in games its one thing if it rids the game of dead weight and can also be used for information gathering, but with the town in this deep of a hole, that is no longer a logical choice. Scum of either team would gladly go along with it. Its an easy out that continues the trend of us killing ourselves.

There may be some of you who believe one of these two may be legit scum beyond the activity reasons and that's fine, but that does not appear to be the case for many of you based on the past few days posts and if that is the case, then this is absolutely the wrong path to go down. It doesn't mean they're innocent, it just means until a stronger case is made, we need to target those who's actual play comes across as the scummiest. I have some of my own thoughts on that which I will chime in with soon, but I just wanted to get this piece out there first to give people some things to think about.

[Ace Rothstein]

I was really hoping at least one of Tony or Sonny would've posted last night (real night, not phase). At this point they have a combined contribution of "Lefty is scum. My Spidey sense tells me so". Unfortunately we can't afford to guess wrong this time and say "he wasn't contributing to the town anyway" or something like that. The numbers are getting dangerously close to a loss (if they're not there already). At this point I'll wait until this afternoon to vote as I really want to hear from them before casting this vote but we're going on 24 hours since this day phase began and not one word from our 2 most suspicious players.

[Ace Rothstein]

I see people are back on the train for those inactive / under the radar folks, but to be honest I think its too little, too late. At this point we no longer have the luxury of trying to "find things out" or not worrying about disposing of those who aren't contributing. Yesterday we could have gone that route and still been fine, but not today. The fact is that its our own fault that we're in this situation. As I said yesterday, despite how he may have been acting, the lynching of EY provided us with absolutely no information on any other players. EY was lynched anyway and a day later we sit here without any better ideas of what is going on than we did yesterday.

I was all for lynching Sonny yesterday (and probably would've been fine with Tony as well), but 2 innocent deaths and a possible conversion later and the strategy has to change. We are now in the situation were we have to lynch scum, not just gather information or get rid of dead weight. And I'm not sure Sonny or Tony are going to give us that. Is it possible one of them is scum? Sure, but outside of their lack of contributions (whether it just be overall posting or posting with good content) I'm not sure what the big cases against either man are. And if they were scum, does anyone honestly believe they would continue to act in the same manner for days on end? I seriously doubt it. Think back about the countless number of times we've lynched players in the many JN mafia games for this exact reason. How many times did any of those players actually turn up scum? I can't think of a single one. Early on in games its one thing if it rids the game of dead weight and can also be used for information gathering, but with the town in this deep of a hole, that is no longer a logical choice. Scum of either team would gladly go along with it. Its an easy out that continues the trend of us killing ourselves.

There may be some of you who believe one of these two may be legit scum beyond the activity reasons and that's fine, but that does not appear to be the case for many of you based on the past few days posts and if that is the case, then this is absolutely the wrong path to go down. It doesn't mean they're innocent, it just means until a stronger case is made, we need to target those who's actual play comes across as the scummiest. I have some of my own thoughts on that which I will chime in with soon, but I just wanted to get this piece out there first to give people some things to think about.

This is an excellent point and I really wish I had seen it before making my last post. I will definitely be looking for this to have developed when I come back in the afternoon as right now all I really have to go on is my "spidey-sense" and that's definitely not enough for such an important lynch.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count:

Tony Montana (4) - Marcellus Wallace, Vito Corleone, Frank Costello, Fredo Corleone

Jimmy Conway (1) - Virgil Sollozzo

Sonny LoSpecchio (2) - Tony Soprano, Lefty Ruggerio

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch

[Marcellus Wallace]

What do you see happening. Guys were going to look at Montana anyway. EY did not claim all three of us were guilty, he claimed at least one of us was.

I believe Montana warrants attention. I understand why guys may feel I do. Odd though that you keep warning guys not to ignore me. If anything I expect EY's whining to focus attention on myself.

And vote:Jimmy Conway. For trying to sniff out power roles during a night phase.

Well, I wasnt sniffing out anything. I did what I normally do. I was reading up and quoting things that stood out to me as I went along. You made a comment I thought was hinting toward something, so I questioned you. You and Tony M. responded that it was a quote (which I remember, I've seen the flick enough) and I dropped it.

I do see your point though, but you also have to see mine, if I was scum I wouldnt say a thing and just make the suggestion to my mafia team to off you that night.

Frank is still my favorite, but I feel like nobody is willing to look at that case. Therefore, I have an issue, I just dont buy Montana and his laying low b.s. He doesnt have time to post 1 comment a day? Thats bull ****. And I think those defending him, might be scum as well. You know you are taking heat and all it takes is 5 minutes of time to contribute and he just doesnt do it. IMO thats a scummy move. Ironically, he seems to always be floating around when its crunch time. Which makes me think he is lurking and jumping in when he can to distance himself or jump on a train.

Vote: Tony Montana

[Al Capone]

I see joe's point, however i'd feel much better if you know, sonny or tony m. even made an effort to provide cases for themselves.

[Tony Soprano]

I see joe's point, however i'd feel much better if you know, sonny or tony m. even made an effort to provide cases for themselves.

I agree.

Joe, I liked your reasoning as well, we really are at end game, in a way. I do think that Sonny and Tony have acted summy beyond just their lack of posts/contributions.

Sonny's "Spidey sense" comment absolutely reeks, and the truth is that Tony has not done much besides through out his very detail oriented reason for being so inactive early on.

I think it's also the truth that as thin as these cases may be, they are the best we have at the present time.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Well, I wasnt sniffing out anything. I did what I normally do. I was reading up and quoting things that stood out to me as I went along. You made a comment I thought was hinting toward something, so I questioned you. You and Tony M. responded that it was a quote (which I remember, I've seen the flick enough) and I dropped it.

I do see your point though, but you also have to see mine, if I was scum I wouldnt say a thing and just make the suggestion to my mafia team to off you that night.

Frank is still my favorite, but I feel like nobody is willing to look at that case. Therefore, I have an issue, I just dont buy Montana and his laying low b.s. He doesnt have time to post 1 comment a day? Thats bull ****. And I think those defending him, might be scum as well. You know you are taking heat and all it takes is 5 minutes of time to contribute and he just doesnt do it. IMO thats a scummy move. Ironically, he seems to always be floating around when its crunch time. Which makes me think he is lurking and jumping in when he can to distance himself or jump on a train.

Vote: Tony Montana

Gotta agree with the last part on Montana. He's at L-3 now with your fifth vote. The train started early with Marcellus yesterday and he hasn't posted a response yet.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

I see joe's point, however i'd feel much better if you know, sonny or tony m. even made an effort to provide cases for themselves.

I doubt Sonny will make the effort because there's no heat on him now with only 2 votes.

The heat is squarely on Montana now and if he doesn't make an effort it's inexcusable.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

I think Jiffy Conway was a little intoxicated when he made that single post. I'm not ready to male anything out of that just yet.

But FOS: Virgil for looking to bring a completely new name into the mix as soon as Frank starts talking about him as possible scum.

There are more than enough guys voting Montana and LoSpecchio. All we can do is wait for them to respond.

I think it is wise to look at more than those two names while we wait. At this point half of us are mafia or cult.

Conway may have been intoxicated. But I thought he would know better than to ask questions like that.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Well, I wasnt sniffing out anything. I did what I normally do. I was reading up and quoting things that stood out to me as I went along. You made a comment I thought was hinting toward something, so I questioned you. You and Tony M. responded that it was a quote (which I remember, I've seen the flick enough) and I dropped it.

I do see your point though, but you also have to see mine, if I was scum I wouldnt say a thing and just make the suggestion to my mafia team to off you that night.

Frank is still my favorite, but I feel like nobody is willing to look at that case. Therefore, I have an issue, I just dont buy Montana and his laying low b.s. He doesnt have time to post 1 comment a day? Thats bull ****. And I think those defending him, might be scum as well. You know you are taking heat and all it takes is 5 minutes of time to contribute and he just doesnt do it. IMO thats a scummy move. Ironically, he seems to always be floating around when its crunch time. Which makes me think he is lurking and jumping in when he can to distance himself or jump on a train.

Vote: Tony Montana

That is possible. Or you may be a cult member. Someone said cult members cannot PM, yes? Perhaps you wanted to signal me to your leader as a future conversion target. That is if you truly thought I might have a role. Or you were hoping the mafia would see your post and night kill me.

I am willing to look at your Frank case. He is playing too quietly for CTM if that is who he is.

[Al Capone]

I doubt Sonny will make the effort because there's no heat on him now with only 2 votes.

The heat is squarely on Montana now and if he doesn't make an effort it's inexcusable.

exactly why I am still on these two. If either of them were actually town, wouldn't you think they'd be screaming to high heaven that this wagon is wrong? Town has practically Zero shot without taking scum down today. And they aren't trying that hard to scum hunt or defend. Is it possible they are caught and don't want to give up teammates? Maybe I am wrong, but you know what If they are town they aren't giving us much to work with.

I am giving them to midnight to at least start contributing, or else that is just inexcusable to be AWOL for 2 days straight. It is just stalling at that point. Guess what sonny, my spidey sense says you and tony need to cut out the bs.

[Frank Costello]

I see people are back on the train for those inactive / under the radar folks, but to be honest I think its too little, too late. At this point we no longer have the luxury of trying to "find things out" or not worrying about disposing of those who aren't contributing. Yesterday we could have gone that route and still been fine, but not today. The fact is that its our own fault that we're in this situation. As I said yesterday, despite how he may have been acting, the lynching of EY provided us with absolutely no information on any other players. EY was lynched anyway and a day later we sit here without any better ideas of what is going on than we did yesterday.

I was all for lynching Sonny yesterday (and probably would've been fine with Tony as well), but 2 innocent deaths and a possible conversion later and the strategy has to change. We are now in the situation were we have to lynch scum, not just gather information or get rid of dead weight. And I'm not sure Sonny or Tony are going to give us that. Is it possible one of them is scum? Sure, but outside of their lack of contributions (whether it just be overall posting or posting with good content) I'm not sure what the big cases against either man are. And if they were scum, does anyone honestly believe they would continue to act in the same manner for days on end? I seriously doubt it. Think back about the countless number of times we've lynched players in the many JN mafia games for this exact reason. How many times did any of those players actually turn up scum? I can't think of a single one. Early on in games its one thing if it rids the game of dead weight and can also be used for information gathering, but with the town in this deep of a hole, that is no longer a logical choice. Scum of either team would gladly go along with it. Its an easy out that continues the trend of us killing ourselves.

There may be some of you who believe one of these two may be legit scum beyond the activity reasons and that's fine, but that does not appear to be the case for many of you based on the past few days posts and if that is the case, then this is absolutely the wrong path to go down. It doesn't mean they're innocent, it just means until a stronger case is made, we need to target those who's actual play comes across as the scummiest. I have some of my own thoughts on that which I will chime in with soon, but I just wanted to get this piece out there first to give people some things to think about.

You are spot on about lynch motives. At this point, we don't have the luxury of killing someone just cause their dead weight. However, I do believe think we can infer something from who the scum NK'd last night, and the fact that it was one of EY's top three tells me that the actual scum would prefer we not lynch based on EY's recommendation. They proved him wrong, attacked his credibility. Why would they do that unless one or both of his other favorites were correct?

Further, if you look at the 1 time Tony Montana has been really active it was after the first nights death when he was leading people to look closely at EY (which is what lead to EY's meltdown in the first place). Click the link below to see the full post, and scroll back and forth through the pages around that time, he was very active post death scene

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1271791&postcount=588

Wow.

In under 1 hour, 4 posts suddenly pointing at me.

vote Tony Montana.

He's definitely setting me up.

So now we've got a guy whose wrapped up in both nighkills in some way, whose largely been inactive, made several posts about when he would be back and contribute only to never show, and I can't see a more scummy looking player. I don't like Sonny either, but his case is more closely related to inactivity then Tony's.

Tony definitely had an agenda after night 1's death scene, and imo it's a good bet that EY's read of it was correct...

[Virgil Sollozzo]

exactly why I am still on these two. If either of them were actually town, wouldn't you think they'd be screaming to high heaven that this wagon is wrong? Town has practically Zero shot without taking scum down today. And they aren't trying that hard to scum hunt or defend. Is it possible they are caught and don't want to give up teammates? Maybe I am wrong, but you know what If they are town they aren't giving us much to work with.

I am giving them to midnight to at least start contributing, or else that is just inexcusable to be AWOL for 2 days straight. It is just stalling at that point. Guess what sonny, my spidey sense says you and tony need to cut out the bs.

I am fine with lynching Montana or LoSpecchio if they do not show up with substance. I find them equally suspect.

We may as well take advantage of this waiting time though. Examine as many as possible. I would like to hear Joe's thoughts. He said he wants us to look at other guys and will return with suggestions.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count:

Tony Montana (5) - Marcellus Wallace, Vito Corleone, Frank Costello, Fredo Corleone, Jimmy Conway

Jimmy Conway (1) - Virgil Sollozzo

Sonny LoSpecchio (2) - Tony Soprano, Lefty Ruggerio

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch

[Joe Cabot]

You are spot on about lynch motives. At this point, we don't have the luxury of killing someone just cause their dead weight. However, I do believe think we can infer something from who the scum NK'd last night, and the fact that it was one of EY's top three tells me that the actual scum would prefer we not lynch based on EY's recommendation. They proved him wrong, attacked his credibility. Why would they do that unless one or both of his other favorites were correct?

Further, if you look at the 1 time Tony Montana has been really active it was after the first nights death when he was leading people to look closely at EY (which is what lead to EY's meltdown in the first place). Click the link below to see the full post, and scroll back and forth through the pages around that time, he was very active post death scene

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1271791&postcount=588

So now we've got a guy whose wrapped up in both nighkills in some way, whose largely been inactive, made several posts about when he would be back and contribute only to never show, and I can't see a more scummy looking player. I don't like Sonny either, but his case is more closely related to inactivity then Tony's.

Tony definitely had an agenda after night 1's death scene, and imo it's a good bet that EY's read of it was correct...

The funny thing is despite going after Sonny the past couple of days, I actually completely agree with this. I would definitely feel more comfortable with going after Montana of the two and he's definitely given us greater reason beyond activity. He's not #1 on my list at this point, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to him being the lynch option. I think there's a decent chance that he's scum.

I'll still get my other thoughts together like I said I would earlier, just haven't gotten the chance to take the time and put it all together yet.

[ZachEY]

admit it.

you all miss me.

[JiFtheOracle]

admit it.

you all miss me.

You suck.

[The Crusher]

admit it.

you all miss me.

Who are you again?

[Ace Rothstein]

You are spot on about lynch motives. At this point, we don't have the luxury of killing someone just cause their dead weight. However, I do believe think we can infer something from who the scum NK'd last night, and the fact that it was one of EY's top three tells me that the actual scum would prefer we not lynch based on EY's recommendation. They proved him wrong, attacked his credibility. Why would they do that unless one or both of his other favorites were correct?

Further, if you look at the 1 time Tony Montana has been really active it was after the first nights death when he was leading people to look closely at EY (which is what lead to EY's meltdown in the first place). Click the link below to see the full post, and scroll back and forth through the pages around that time, he was very active post death scene

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1271791&postcount=588

So now we've got a guy whose wrapped up in both nighkills in some way, whose largely been inactive, made several posts about when he would be back and contribute only to never show, and I can't see a more scummy looking player. I don't like Sonny either, but his case is more closely related to inactivity then Tony's.

Tony definitely had an agenda after night 1's death scene, and imo it's a good bet that EY's read of it was correct...

I had forgotten about that. Tony's Spidey sense perhaps? Still nothing from either of them. Unfortunately I'm still not comfortable placing my vote. I know I said I would have one by the afternoon but I don't want to make this one unless A) I'm confident we have scum or I'm around to unvote if need be. Since I won't be able to meet either of those conditions I'm gonna have to wait just a bit longer.

[Carlito Brigante]

WARNING: REALLY REALLY LONG

So, with Montana's "Spidey Sense" of Lefty, I figured we should go back and review all of Lefty's posts, and see if he's actually got some basis or if he was just trying to throw the blame. This first post just contains what I think is all of Lefty's posts in the thread. My thoughts will come in my next post.

Vote: John Rooney

Not because of the pic, but because he lacked the ****in decency to actually put in the leg work to find out who the **** John Rooney realy is. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out all 19 players are real life/cinematic mobsters. Someone that dumb or lazy is a detriment to JN.

Now, to find out who's scum or cult, let's look at the list. I'll break 'em down as follows:

Cosa Nostra:

1) Tony Soprano

2) Lefty Ruggerio

3) Al Capone

4) Nicky Santoro

5) Tommy Devito

6) Vito Corleone

7) Michael Corleone

8) Fredo Corleone

9) Virgil Sollozo

10) Sonny LoSpecchio

Other:

1) Frank Costello

2) Ace Rothstein

3) Joe Cabot

4) Tony Montana

5) Marcellus Wallace

6) Henry Hill

7) Jimmy Conway

8) Carlito Brigante

9) John Rooney

Does it have meaning? I don't know, but it might depending on how players fall.

FOS: Henry Hill, for being a rat. Marcellus Wallace for (1) being the only black guy here, and (2) for being Zed's bitch.

Ha!

I see we have a bunch of brain surgeons playin' this game.

Yeah, deflection and confusion on the first day of voting when there are only a few posts into the game.

You need to actually deflect people from something else, but considering no one else said a freakin' thing of substance before my post then it's hard to deflect anything.

Like I said, there are a bunch of geniuses in this game.

Uhm, no.

Actually, Joe, reading is fundamental. This is what I wrote:

You're claiming I'm making any determination based on the list of names. I specifically stated that I didn't know if the names had any significance, but once the players are voted off we will see.

So, you're the idiot because you either can't read properly and invented an interpretation of what I wrote, or you're trying to concoct something out of nothing.

FYI, I didn't claim that the names in the game have something to do with our alignment.

Joe Cabot has pulled a classic EY move of distorting what someone else has posted and then basis his vote on his own distortion.

Now, people are basing a vote for me on a lie by Joe.

It is spelled wrong, but I had nothing to do with that.

How could you say I didn't take the time to research the character? This is the first time you're saying this.

Care to explain?

Lefty is from Donnie Brasco. It's not my fault Doggin (great mod!) misspelled the name. I have no control over that.

As to the hostile response to voting for me? I was hostile before anyone voted for me. The first vote for me was Cabot, and his vote was based on his misrepresentation.

Like I said, a bunch of geniuses in this game.

You couldn't be more obvious. Why don't you just cut-and-paste posts from previous games because you're using the same right here?

You base a vote on your own misrepresentation and then distance yourself from that by claiming your vote is now based on me throwing a "hissy fit" in response to your misrepresentation.

You lie, I retort, and that's a hissy fit in Joe's book. Yeah, okay, cue ball.

It wasn't my theory, dip****. In no way am I backpeddeling because I never presented a theory or made any claim. Here's what I wrote (again):

This in no way constitutes a theory. But here you are, in the above post, lying once again about what I wrote. We can all see it. It's post #34 in this thread.

So, you call a theory I never came up with to be moronic. So be it, it's not my theory. It's a theory you insist on claiming a came up with and it's BS.

You continue to foster your lie in every post. The more you repeat it the more it will be believed, is that it? Regardless, you're a lying POS and you know it. That's pathetic.

Convince you otherwise? Who the **** are you, a judge? You vote who you want to vote for. I couldn't care less.

I'm not going to tell you who you should or shouldn't vote for. You think the rooney vote was suspicious, so be it.

Guess what, it's annoying to me too because it's BS. It wasn't my theory. Of course you all can read it for yourself and I hope that you do. No where do I claim the role assignments mean anything.

We won't know anything until later. There's absolutely no way players could know anything now.

As to the defensiveness? So be it. I'm falsely accused of something and I respond. If that's defensive, I can't do anything about. I'm not going to admit or acquiesce to the notion that I put forth a theory or made a claim I never did.

I'd like to move past this.

I'd vote douche.

I'll cut back on the insults (except for Joe Cabot who's an ahole). But it's ironic that in a game filled with mobsters people are taking umbrage with insults and combative behavior.

And people are complaining about me insulting them and you blindside me with a kick in the balls with that comparison. Thanks.

But that is a mighty fast train we have going there as you point out.

Ha!

Here's the list of players and their post count in this thread:

Lefty Ruggerio -- 16

Nicky Santoro -- 14

Tony Soprano 11

Fredo Corleone -- 8

Vito Corleone -- 8

John Rooney -- 7

Henry Hill -- 6

Sonny LoSpecchio -- 6

Joe Cabot -- 6

Michael Corleone -- 6

Frank Costello -- 5

Jimmy Conway -- 5

Virgil Sollozzo -- 5

Al Capone -- 4

Marcellus Wallace -- 4

Tony Montana -- 3

Tommy DeVito -- 3

Carlito Brigante -- 1

Ace Rothstein -- 1

Now these are the 6 that have voted for me with their post number beside their names:

Joe Cabot (6), Jimmy Conway (5), Nicky Santoro (14), Frank Costello (5), Sonny LoSpecchio (6), Al Capone (4)

Except for Nicky, those are some inactive posters who have all decided to jump on the train started by Joe Cabot, who's first post in this thread was a vote against me.

Hey, Frank, don't get so jumpy. I'm talking relative to jumping on the train. Al Capone for instance. He has 3 posts in the thread and for his 4th, votes for me and tells me to convince him otherwise. WTF? Joe votes on the 1st post.

So

(Con't). So, in other words, it's jumping on a train with only a few votes, Frank.

I get that, Tony. I'm talking about posts in relation to train jumping.

L-4 actually, Frank. But, yeah, not yet close to lynch.

The ship has sailed on the theory/no theory thing. Like I said, I'd like to move on to focus on what other things are out there of interest.

I'd like to hear more from MW.

Unvote: Rooney

Vote: Marcellus Wallace

Yes, I did. Doggin has it correct. I'm now L-3. Thanks!

Yes, it's still correct. He posted on the first page about nothing.

Of course, self preservation is a factor. That's undeniable. And to be clear, I was criticizing bandwagonning in relation to low post count. Basically, a hit-and-run.

Yeah, Joe Cabot and his grand total of 6 posts in this thread with his first being a vote based on BS.

That said, I'd definately like to hear from other posters.

Pac is doing his best slats imitation.

Yep, the noive.

Thanks for the clearing up. I didn't think we were actually hunting for JI members but, rather, players with JI aliases.

Pot, meet kettle.

Subdued? I would agree with that considering that yesterday I felt I was being railroaded on a BS claim by a poster (Joe) who did a hit-and-run. That train slowed and people got to look at what was happening.

I still believe that Joe's reasoning to vote for me was BS, coupled with him disappearing after making a grant total of 6 posts. Then, as you pointed out, he chastises others for their contributions when his has been awfly meager. He accuses me of being defensive and laying insults, but when you put the heat on him he is equally defensive and quick to insult. So, not only does he make misrepresentations, he's two-faced as well.

I originally didn't want to vote for him because I felt it would be a, "waaa, you voted for me, so I'm voting for you," but it's more than that now. I voted for MW because of his weird play of complaining how people were posting, getting voted for, and then dissapearing. Also, I did it for self-preservation. That latter is no longer the case at the moment. So, I'm left with that a-hole Cabot.

Unvote: Marcellus Wallace

Vote: Joe Cabot

I'm being calmer today, so no "theatrics." I know this is only business, not personal, but I take personal satisfaction in voting for him.

That is definately an odd thing to claim. Unless Carlito is asserting that he has some day powers. This is what Doggin wrote in the instructions:

HOWEVER, there is no way Carlito could have a day power which would give him info on more than one person. Is that right Doggin?

I have to agree with Frank and Nicky on this about Rooney. The hit-and-run thing always bothers me. He was my original vote, but I voted for him for BS reasons, but he was an absentee player since the jump. I switched to Marcellus because of his odd tactics, then to Cabot when he showed he was two-face on top of being a misrepresenter, but the Rooney thing hasn't gone away.

The Cult leader likely can only recruit at night. There is a possibility of a day action (per the rules), but the odds that it happens at night. So right now there's only a Cult leader.

What would be interesting is if the mafiascum rules are in play whether the Cult leader dies if he tries to recruit mafia.

Good point, Tony, if Rooney really is BG. His activity here vs. on the other forums could not be more different.

This was Rooney's last post in the thread. It was made at 11:50 pm last night:

He made a previous post at 11:23 pm last night, and then his previous post before that was 2 days earlier on May 10 at 11:24 pm.

So he should be posting again by midnight if his last 3 posts are any indication. I don't know it will be enough, though, because he has really been MIA.

On the JB front, I think it's the broad. Same flaky posting style, same impusliveness. All we need is to here to make unenforceable side bets concerning her claim of innocence.

On the JR white flag front, it does seem like someone who has been monitoring the thread considering he first posted at night and when he got heat he posted during the day. He's on right now by his posts above.

"Seriously insult"? No, I haven't seriously insulted other people's intelligence. It was all in jest.

But you, sir, are an ahole. And I say that seriously.

OK, I'll dial it back a bit.

Doesn't change the fact that the alt Cabot (not the person playing him) is an ahole.

+1

It definately sucks that a townie was lynched, but he wasn't a power role, and the town still has an advantage number wise. Another benefit is that no one was forced to role reveal with this first lynch, so the power guys can stay annonymous and go about their business without the hightened threat of being NKd.

As to Rooney specifically, there's speculation he was a newbie player, but I think he was experienced. These alts allow for annonymity so he may have thought he could coast under the radar, something he couldn't do in the prior games because of who he was.

Yeah, compared to other games those were definately not meltdowns. This has been a mild, long first day (except in John Rooney-verse).

Hey, maybe Rooney's alias is an old guy so a week and 500 posts seems fast?

III wasn't that bad of a movie. Sophia Coppola was abysmal, but overall it was entertaining. It was good to see some of the obscure characters reprise their roles like the baker's son-in-law and the good bodyguard.

It was also the only movie which Andy Garcia looked tall in.

I guess I'll also be in the line of fire too, Vito. While I don't think it was a great mafia movie, it definately was a good one. As Jimmy mentioned, it had the burden of being affiliated with 2 of the greatest films of all time.

I liked the Vatican angle, but, yes, it was way over the top. I just liked how they tied it into historical events like in GFII with the Cuban revolution.

If Coppola wasn't a nepotistic prick, he'd have hired Wynona Rider for the role. According to reports, Rider was set to get it, but Coppola wanted his daughter to do it. I liked Andy as a badass when he shot the guy who broke into his house to get info from "Willie Lopez from the Bronx."

That's so ****ed up. Damn, double hit on power roles.

@Doggin

Is there anyway within the rules for Michael to reveal his investigation (if he made one last night) although he's dead now?

Or did Nicky kill Michael?

@Doggin. Can Nicky tell us if he took out Michael?

As to the last point, Hill and Nicky were going at it. But that's a pretty big bullseye to put on your back if Hill took him out.

Figured that. Blind hope on my part. Perhaps Doggin would allow for a death note or something.

Unless, Nicky was the target of conversion by the Cult leader and rather than be converted he shot himself.

Don't know if that's possible. But if Nicky was PM that he was being converted before he submitted his night action he may have submitted a kill on himself.

But if there's a Mafia, 2 Cult Members now, and SK, then that is bad.

Not true. I have played this game before.

Also, not all night action results are PM'd at the conclusion of the nightphase. In a previous game the mod sent PMs during the night phase concerning certain night actions, rather than at the end, when it didn't concern a kill. That's how I remember it explained in the postgame recap. Plus, we don't know what limitations or abilities the Vig had or what the Cult leader can and can't do.

It does lead to a distraction. We can all present different scenarios (as I and others have), but it's probably best to accept for now the obvious occurence until we get more info: Nicky killed Michael & the scum killed Nicky.

The death note. The idea that the player had written something before he/she was killed and the note was found on the body. It only works with town power roles.

[Carlito Brigante]

And now for the rest of his posts (too many posts for one reply)

I agree. That is definately the most likely scenario and one I believed happened.

I was going along the lines of Montana's "outside the box" belief that there could be an SK. If the most likely event didn't happen, what are the other possibilities?

As I have read the descriptions, Cult leaders can't kill. If anything, I've read that a Cult leader dies if he/she tries to recruit mafia. It makes no sense for the role that he can kill. He wants to expand his ranks.

Joe's drunk.

As far as the game description there is a possibility of day actions. I haven't been in a game where the day action has been by scum, though. Scum have the power to kill at night. They also may have the power to track a player, find players, and block a role. The only power I could think they could use during the day would be find players. If the town has day powers, then the scum could have tracking power perhaps.

I never got the impression that Nicky was the vig/sk (he ended up being the vig). I wonder what made Nicky target Michael.

Perhaps Capone means "soon" as game phase, rather than real time. As in, we need to kill scum today or we're ****ed. We have at least 2 real days to work this out (I'm excluding the weekend because of sporadic posting).

The Roster:

1) Tony Soprano

2) Lefty Ruggerio

3) Al Capone

4) Frank Costello

5) Ace Rothstein

6) Nicky Santoro (vigilante) -- NK Night 1

7) Joe Cabot

8) Tony Montana

9) Marcellus Wallace

10) Henry Hill

11) Jimmy Conway

12) Tommy Devito

13) Vito Corleone

14) Michael Corleone (finder) -- NK Night 1

15) Fredo Corleone

16) Virgil Sollozo

17) Sonny LoSpecchio

18) Carlito Brigante

19) John Rooney (townie) -- Lynched Day 1

The original set up was 1 Cult Leader, 4 Scum (PaulieC, Warfish, Jetswin and Chesapeake) and 14 townies.

Now we're down to 11 townies (maybe 10), with Cult Leader (may + disciple), and 4 scum. That's potentially 10 vs. 6. If we lynch wrong today, then we could be facing 8 vs. 7 tomorrow (lynch town, NK townie, another cultist added) and the only thing keeping the scum from winning after the following night would be the number of cult members.

Definately not a panic mode, but I agree with Capone that it's imperative to hit scum today. Heck, if we got the Cult Leader that would be beneficial, assuming that he is the only one who can recruit.

This is a critical vote (no pun intended). The town can survive another day with a wrong move, but we'll loose our margin of error.

Highly unlikely that all 4 scum are novice. They'd definately be communicating and planning. Some could go off the reservation, but when it comes to NK they usually go on consensus.

Nicky screwed up. He thought he had scum and fired, but it ended up being the finder. We would hope the vig acted with some reservation, but such power is intoxicating. We don't know what Nicky saw to point him in Michael's direction.

As to the scum targetting the vig, it wouldn't have been intentional. If there is a finder on their part, his results would come at the end of the night after all night actions are in (assuming Doggin reveals all night actions at the same time as suggested Doggin does). So there wouldn't be an opportunity to do a NK after finding out who the vig was.

Nicky was the post active poster. Targetting him may have been for the purpose of causing confusion. The likely scenario today would have been Nicky vs. Hill based on how day 1 end. That may have resulted in one of them being lynched or moving the lynch to someone else. With that out of the way we don't know where to go.

Confusion is the scum's best friend. With 16 players, 4 being scum, confusion increases the chances of 1 of the 11 townies getting lynched.

I'll join you, Frank. The WIFOM on Henry is so out there that the pendulum swings to opposite sides (obvious guilt for his battle with Nicky to obvious innocence along the Sharon Stone/Basic Instinct rationale of "if I would write a book about killing someone, do you think I'd kill someone the exact same way?").

If there was something lower than beneath the radar, then that's where Sonny would be because although his post total is nearly as low as MW, he has avoided any scrutiny.

Vote: Sonny

Why, because you're the target? You've avoided suspicion until now and has barely posted in this thread, the least amount of any player. We have to learn as much as we can and your low crawl through this game can no longer be ignored.

Besides that, do you have anything else on Carlito and Al that you believe would make them worthy of suspicion? It would be good to get your thoughts on this.

And to add, Sonny, with such a critical vote I doubt there'd be a fast moving train here. And fast, I don't mean in John Rooney's definition of fast.

I get your theory, Henry, but are you saying it is only for scum, or roled townie or scum?

Under your example, JB was both town and mafia in the games she subbed. The thing is, the town just lost 2 power roles (finder & vig). In all likelihood the town is left with only 1 power role (doc).

So, even if you are right that Doggin would likely sub if the player is important (@Doggin, I'm not saying I believe it's true, just that assuming it for this sake), it is too dangerous to target Carlito at this time because there's a 50/50 chance he/she is the doc.

That said, I don't think Carlito is roled. But that's just a hunch.

That's an interresting point on the Doc vs. Cult Leader.

And, with no other power roles to protect, it does seem likely like the doc would self protect. So, revealing would not be that much of an issue and we could scratch off a player from the list of suspects.

Yeah, if there are other town power roles, doc revealing doesn't make sense. The town could have some one like a roleblocker who could stop a kill or conversion.

The standard town power roles are doc and cop. The vig is an extra power role. I thought that role balanced the presence of the Cult Leader.

MW said he'll be back in a couple of hours after taking an exam. He must be trying to get a degree so he can get out of the organized crime business. In this economy he's better off not becoming legit.

Let's see if he comes back like he said he would. Sonny is pulling a Woody and it's troublesome.

If that's the case, then there has to be other town power roles out there. We could assume that the Cult Leader can't convert scum (for the reason that the Cult Leader would then know who all the scum were), so the town would need some form of protection besides the vig. As such, they're best to remain underground.

Okay, Sonny is at L-2 (for Jimmy, that means he's 2 away from lynch ). No one should put in the last 2 votes until, at least, Sonny can chime in.

Sonny hasn't posted since 10:53 am yesterday morning after the first 2 votes against him. We'd really like to hear from you Sonny.

Totally understandable, Henry. The Sonny train has picked up steem and you would think that if Sonny was scum, the scum would try to deflect. Unless, the scum believe that Sonny has left himself too vulnerable that to try to deflect would bring unwanted attention on the other 3 players.

I would suggest that you avoid voting for Sonny unless it's to avoid your imminent lynching. That is, if both of you are at L-1. We need for Sonny to chime in here and we can wait as long as people believe it necessary (unless Doggin's timelimit is approaching, which it should be, but I don't know when).

LOL at HenrEY. And, I didn't know it was you. Dumbass.

Plus, HenrEY, if you're townie, giving up now does the town no good. And, you mentioned that you'd likely be NK'd, but I don't see the logic in that. You've just emasculated yourself in the game by the reveal. If you're roless, the scum would probably leave you alone. If I was scum that's what I would do.

Wait, HenrEY, are you really claiming to be the Cult Leader, or are you being sarcastic?

That is, "FU you all, you think I'm a bad guy, so I am, even though I'm not," sort of thing.

And, Frank, I get what you're saying about Montana. Where is he?

Well, we've got our first meltdown in the game! That's 3 in a row. First there was SMC in CTM's game, then Vicious in Bleedin's game, and now HenrEY.

But besides that. REAL QUESTION HERE: Are you the Cult Leader???

Exactly. It takes 9 to lynch and EY is not close to it.

The choice is not HenrEY vs. Sonny if there is a reason to vote for a 3rd candidate.

If you're really the Cult Leader, do you have to convert people? Can you simply stop? Because if you do, you're really of no concern to the town at the moment.

Now, of course, could we trust your word is the question. Hitting scum is much more important now than taking out the Cult Leader.

Don't pull an SMC. We don't need that again.

And he claims it isn't a meltdown. Sonny was at 7 votes and HenrEY was at 4. If HenrEY didn't go ape ****, Sonny would probably be lynched by now.

This is memorable, HenrEY.

The "3 guys" being the ones of high interest: Virgil, Tony Montana, DeVito?

Ha! Step away from the game and come back as Henry and let's go on. Just because you're EY isn't enough justification to vote for you.

Okay, Henry. This EY prick had his top 3 suspects being Virgil, Tony Montana, and DeVito, so we can assume they're your top 3 as well.

I gather your case on Montana is the quick connection to Nicky's death which you saw as a setup. What is your case on Virgil and DeVito?

Good luck, Tommy.

It sucks being an unemployed mobster. Without a legit job providing cover the IRS gets suspicious.

Carlito, you say that you don't think that HenrEY is the cult leader. I have my suspiciouns about that as well. Perhaps he was someone that was converted. Perhaps HenrEY is trying to save the real Cult Leader.

DeVito mentioned there's something fishy going on, perhaps it's that. Perhaps HenrEY was trying to get the Cult Leader off the hook because he got converted. Of course, if that's the case, that may make me think that Sonny was the Cult Leader. HenrEY wanted to deflect away from him as his teammate because Sonny could convert others.

I know this is a tenuous connection, but it's still hard to believe that the Cult Leader would act as HenrEY did with the heat on, especially when Sonny was the closest to lynch.

That does present a problem for the theory.

But like I said, it could have been an effort to buy the Cult Leader time.

If it played out as follows:

HenrEY gets lynched, comes up cult member. Sonny lives the night. He converts someone else and then there are 2 cultists. Sonny tries to survive the next day, but would be the likely target UNLESS someone else gets in the crosshairs, like Montana. Then Sonny can survive another day.

And, to add, if we believe that the Cult Leader would want to lay low so he could expand his cult, Sonny fits that description.

I'm not sure of all this, but the HenrEY play doesn't feet right in comparison to how HenrEY described it as him being pissed off at him outing himself and unable to convince anyone of anything now.

Like I said, MW, if Sonny was able to deflect tomorrow. You even mentioned Montana now as a lynch candidate, correct? If Sonny could get the train on Montana tomorrow (if HenrEY was lynched), then that buys Sonny another day.

The idea is to survive. Sonny is close to going, so surviving another day gives him better odds.

Again, I'm looking at this from the aspect of the HenrEY Saga does not smell right. I'm trying to find an alternative explanation.

Yeah, thoughts and prayers to HenrEY's mom.

(You're explanation of the meltdown is still off though)

Ahole.

Wow, more power to Jimmy's parents.

That made me think about how messed up life could be.

The wife had a good friend since HS. Real sweetheart. She (the friend), had a dying mother. The mother was dying of Lou Gehrig's disease. So the friend moves the mother into her house, she quits her job and stays with her mother everyday until the mother passes. A few months later the woman is killed by her husband in a murder-suicide. Life's crazy.

JiF? WTF?

The best thing about this is that you did it a couple of times without even knowing you were posting under the wrong user.

It's funny because you had a well detailed post breaking down the reason for your vote and we see Yosemite Sam there. It just jumps out of the screen.

And just to add, it's remarkably convenient that Sonny is L-2, HenrEY has his meltdown, and all heat has moved away from Sonny.

I'm also surprised that Frank switched his reasoning. Originally he said we should let HenrEY live and focus on Sonny and Montana because the Cult is more of a threat to the scum now. Is the switch in vote just being tired of this HenrEY business? I only ask because I still agree with your original rationale in tabling the HenrEY matter and focus elsewhere.

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Virgil Sollozzo (1) - Henry Hill

Sonny LoSpecchio (6) - Lefty Ruggerio, Ace Rothstein, Joe Cabot, Carlito Brigante, Tommy DeVito, Jimmy Conway

Henry Hill (6) - Marcellus Wallace, Virgil Sollozo, Tony Soprano, Vito Corleone, Frank Costello, Al Capone

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch

Note, I editted the above vote count post because I had Virgil's name down twice by mistake.

It definately is striking his lack of participation. It's as if he fell off the map. I don't know if it's replacement time, though, because it's usually up to the player to ask the mod to switch (as far as I know).

Beside this HenrEY/Sonny business, Tony Montana's dissapearance is the next biggest concern.

Gotta' agree with that. HenrEY went vulvastic.

Forget about convincing, just 1 rational reason why a townie would claim to be a Cult Leader.

I can't see a reason gamewise. The only reason I see is outside the game in that HenrEY was taking his ball and going home so he thought of all the ways he could get lynched or modkilled. Like Vito said, Lynch all Liars, and HenrEY was inventing ways to lie.

On a side note, DeVito alluded to this, but if we combine EY's posts with Henry's, HenrEY has 50 more posts in this thread than anyone else.

Yes. And as a rational minded person now, could you rationally explain (in simple words), why --if you're innocent -- would you claim to be the Cult Leader?

Please, no one consider dropping the hammer until Hill answers this question.

So you're saying you think Sonny is either scum or the Cult Leader.

You know that's not enforceable. Come on.

Wait, are you saying that the village idiot wins the WHOLE game by getting lynched? What a screwball role.

I highly doubt Doggin would put such a character (or one with such an outcome) in this game. We still have 2 hours. HenrEY is L-1 and Sonny is L-2. Is Montana the only one not casting a vote yet?

I'll answer my own question. It's Montana dropping the hammer, or someone switching from Sonny, or Montana and a switch for Sonny.

Like I said, vulvastic.

A townie self voting never makes sense.

More WIFOM HenrEY?

Your top suspect drops the hammer, you come up innocent, and the top suspect gets into the crosshairs next day. So the top suspect votes for the other guy to try to avoid any more suspicion. But, if he thought of that, he'd drop the hammer on you and say, "If I was scum, you'd think I still vote for HenrEY knowing he has made me the top suspect?" And it goes on.

See now?

Fixed

But the results can.

Did JetsRule128 just hack your account?

Ahole.

Good job screwing the town, HenrEY.

Dick.

Can you explain it, because I can't.

Why in the heck would a townie pull that? Why would he claim Cult Leader? Sonny was at L-2 and HenrEY had only 3 to 4 votes on him with a good number of people not voting yet.

The only thing I could think of was, with his ultra ego, he thought that once he had outed himself as EY he was doomed because no one would trust what he wrote.

Modkilling him would have sucked more because we wouldn't have gotten a reveal. Thanks for letting it play out, Doggin. I also don't think more comes out of this based on Doggin's reaction.

And, for future reference as we should all know, outting yourself in an alt game does not qualify for modkilling. The alt is to the player's benefit. Outting yourself puts you at a disadvantage, but it's not something that negatively impacts the game overall or is in violation of the express or spirit of the rules.

Heck, Doggin even mentioned elsewhere that trying to guess others real names was part of the game.

Damn, that sucks. But at least DeVito wasn't roled.

And, Jimmy, if there was another recruiting last night your numbers would be accurate.

[Carlito Brigante]

And apparently it takes 3 posts just to get them all...

This jumps out at me, Marcellus. You voted to lynch HenrEY, but now you're willing to listen to EY's claim that he was being set up?

HenrEY was making the set up claim from the beginning, but you voted for him early and never got off that vote. Heck, you were the SECOND guy to vote for HenrEY (Post #813) while Tommy DeVito was the first.

Montana has is own issues and was definately going to be in the crosshairs this morning along with Sonny. But the guy coming out blazing against Montana is someone who led the charge against HenrEY but is now using HenrEY's claim of set up against someone else?

You can't kill a guy and then take up the mantle of being his avenger.

I don't know. But Sonny is remarkably lucky. That said, Fredo pointed out that Sonny said he voted for HenrEY because he was being a douche, which is true.

So if Montana comes up scum, then Virgil will? Or we won't know?

In other words, do you believe that this is a gateway lynch of getting 2 scum?

Vote: Sonny LoSpecchio

My rationale for voting for him yesterday remains the same today. The only thing that took the forcus off of him was the HenrEY fiasco and I don't know if that could lead us anywhere. HenrEY was a roleless innocent that acted like a flake in the end.

I understand the Virgil vs. Montana argument, but I'm not willing to flip that coin right now and let Sonny slip by again. That just bugs me, like when we always hear about these mass murderers who were stopped by police early on, but let go and only later is it learned what had happened.

Gotta agree with the last part on Montana. He's at L-3 now with your fifth vote. The train started early with Marcellus yesterday and he hasn't posted a response yet.

I doubt Sonny will make the effort because there's no heat on him now with only 2 votes.

The heat is squarely on Montana now and if he doesn't make an effort it's inexcusable.

[Carlito Brigante]

Ok, from all that I have pretty much determined that I don't think Lefty is scum, he's been helpful all through the game, and he didn't jump on the EY Bandwagon. He was rather defensive early on in day 1, but he was fending off a very early bandwagon on what I agree was a rather weak claim.

Also, I'm not going through and collecting all the posts of a single person again, game thread is too long and it takes up too much space now to post them. Plus, I'm lazy.

I think that Montana's little spidey sense thing was simply his attempt to throw people off of him, and comes across to me as very suspect. As such, with 5 out of 8 needed votes on him, I'm going to put the pressure on him now to defend himself. Vote: Tony Montana

[Doggin94it]

Last update before Shabbos

Vote Count:

Tony Montana (6) - Marcellus Wallace, Vito Corleone, Frank Costello, Fredo Corleone, Jimmy Conway, Carlito Brigante

Jimmy Conway (1) - Virgil Sollozzo

Sonny LoSpecchio (2) - Tony Soprano, Lefty Ruggerio

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch

[Joe Cabot]

Ok, from all that I have pretty much determined that I don't think Lefty is scum, he's been helpful all through the game, and he didn't jump on the EY Bandwagon. He was rather defensive early on in day 1, but he was fending off a very early bandwagon on what I agree was a rather weak claim.

Also, I'm not going through and collecting all the posts of a single person again, game thread is too long and it takes up too much space now to post them. Plus, I'm lazy.

I think that Montana's little spidey sense thing was simply his attempt to throw people off of him, and comes across to me as very suspect. As such, with 5 out of 8 needed votes on him, I'm going to put the pressure on him now to defend himself. Vote: Tony Montana

I don't think I could possibly disagree with this post any more than I do. Starting first and foremost with the fact that you're blaming Tony Montana and voting for him based on something that he didn't even say, but something Sonny did. I think Montana is scummy, but the fact that the entire basis for you vote appears to be on incorrect information looks really bad for you right now.

Furthermore, since this came up now, I might as well mention that the #1 scum on my list that I was referring to earlier that I was going to make my case on when I had the time, was Lefty. I'm not even sure how any of your points prove him to be innocent. Your defense of his day one actions are ridiculous. I made one point and never pressed it. He's the one who threw the fit over it, which is what actually caused more people to join on the so-called "bandwagon". He was also the one who wouldn't drop it and tried to put together an asinine claim on how me pointing out his idiotic claim made me scum. The funniest thing is that his defense was that he never committed to that theory, which made him even scummier. Scum love to throw out confusing theories to throw people off without ever committing to them, that way they have that exact defense when people point out how they're trying to confuse things. Scum never want to commit to anything that could get them in trouble.

As far as not jumping on EY's bandwagon, since when do scum voluntarily put themselves into a situation of voting for innocents when its clear they don't have to and others will do the dirty work for them? Not that a lack of vote on EY makes him scummy, but it sure as hell doesn't vindicate him either unless you think every single scum player had their vote on EY. I have more thoughts on why I find Lefty scummy that I will expand on later, but I wanted to at least address the points you brought up here and why I disagreed with them.

Lefty is #1 scum on my list, but after this post, definite FOS on Carlito (more for the Montana stuff than the Lefty opinions). It may have very well just been a mistake, but even best case scenario it was still very careless.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Impressive work collecting my posts, Carlito. There's a lot of them.

The train has "sped up" on Tony, and I'm not using Rooney time. This started at around 10ish yesterday morning and Tony STILL hasn't defended himself at about 8:30 the following night. Like I mentioned above, Sonny has no incentive to post because he has only 2 votes against him. But Tony, on the other hand, has every reason to post and defend himself and has done nothing to do so.

He's given no prior explanation for why he would be absent again. This is just laying down. A Townie would be more adament in his own defense (unless it's that prick HenrEY). So with Sonny no longer an option, the only 1 left is Montana.

Unvote: Sonny

Vote: Tony Montana

This leaves Montana at L-1. If he wants to defend himself or give an explanation, he best do it now.

[Al Capone]

AWOL for two days straight? Inexcusable. Gave you enough time to state your case.

Vote tony Montana

The American dream dies here...

[Marcellus Wallace]

I don't think I could possibly disagree with this post any more than I do. Starting first and foremost with the fact that you're blaming Tony Montana and voting for him based on something that he didn't even say, but something Sonny did. I think Montana is scummy, but the fact that the entire basis for you vote appears to be on incorrect information looks really bad for you right now.

Furthermore, since this came up now, I might as well mention that the #1 scum on my list that I was referring to earlier that I was going to make my case on when I had the time, was Lefty. I'm not even sure how any of your points prove him to be innocent. Your defense of his day one actions are ridiculous. I made one point and never pressed it. He's the one who threw the fit over it, which is what actually caused more people to join on the so-called "bandwagon". He was also the one who wouldn't drop it and tried to put together an asinine claim on how me pointing out his idiotic claim made me scum. The funniest thing is that his defense was that he never committed to that theory, which made him even scummier. Scum love to throw out confusing theories to throw people off without ever committing to them, that way they have that exact defense when people point out how they're trying to confuse things. Scum never want to commit to anything that could get them in trouble.

As far as not jumping on EY's bandwagon, since when do scum voluntarily put themselves into a situation of voting for innocents when its clear they don't have to and others will do the dirty work for them? Not that a lack of vote on EY makes him scummy, but it sure as hell doesn't vindicate him either unless you think every single scum player had their vote on EY. I have more thoughts on why I find Lefty scummy that I will expand on later, but I wanted to at least address the points you brought up here and why I disagreed with them.

Lefty is #1 scum on my list, but after this post, definite FOS on Carlito (more for the Montana stuff than the Lefty opinions). It may have very well just been a mistake, but even best case scenario it was still very careless.

Yeah, that was my spidey sense that Lefty has buzzing. And if Tony comes back innocent, Al Capone has given the final vote to two innocents. He's next.

[Al Capone]

Yeah, that was my spidey sense that Lefty has buzzing. And if Tony comes back innocent, Al Capone has given the final vote to two innocents. He's next.

1) You sound like a guy who seems to already know what Tony Montana will show up as.

2) Nice of you to show up after the fireworks have ended. It sounds very much like you picked the time to show up and start contributing.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Are you kidding me. It is not acceptable to lynch someone Friday night. It does not matter if Tony is scum or not, we missed taking advantage of the weekend to discuss him, Sonny, multiple leads, other ideas, reread guys' posts, etc. Now we sit around. Waiting for Doggin to return tomorrow.

Even if we think we found scum with Montana. Why throw the entire weekend out the window. You realize night actions will not be due until Monday now.

Nice move Al.

[Vito Corleone]

Are you kidding me. It is not acceptable to lynch someone Friday night. It does not matter if Tony is scum or not, we missed taking advantage of the weekend to discuss him, Sonny, multiple leads, other ideas, reread guys' posts, etc. Now we sit around. Waiting for Doggin to return tomorrow.

Even if we think we found scum with Montana. Why throw the entire weekend out the window. You realize night actions will not be due until Monday now.

Nice move Al.

Monday's Memorial Day, so we're probably looking at Tuesday night for night orders. I agree. Total waste. I wish I got on sooner to unvote. This blows.

[Al Capone]

can you all just wait and see first before you get pissed off? I give him two days to say one word and he fails to say anything?

[Frank Costello]

Yeah, that was my spidey sense that Lefty has buzzing. And if Tony comes back innocent, Al Capone has given the final vote to two innocents. He's next.

Well, i felt pretty good about Tony but the fact that you are here posting 3 minutes after he was hammered is making me second guess myself now. If he isn't scum, it's a real good bet you are, which means EY's tantrum which prevented your lynch yesterday may have been the biggest F up in mafia history..

And FOS on Lefty and Al for putting him at L-1 and hammering on a Friday night. Really no reason to do that..

And seriously? 3 fricken minutes? You haven't posted in 2 1/2 days and you post 3 minutes after hammer at 12:15am? To hard to believe frankly..

[Marcellus Wallace]

Well, i felt pretty good about Tony but the fact that you are here posting 3 minutes after he was hammered is making me second guess myself now. If he isn't scum, it's a real good bet you are, which means EY's tantrum which prevented your lynch yesterday may have been the biggest F up in mafia history..

And FOS on Lefty and Al for putting him at L-1 and hammering on a Friday night. Really no reason to do that..

And seriously? 3 fricken minutes? You haven't posted in 2 1/2 days and you post 3 minutes after hammer at 12:15am? To hard to believe frankly..

I agree with a lot of what was said in this post, which makes me nervous since I think you are scummy.

Hopefully we made the right choice, I think we did, but we didnt even give the guy a chance to react...we knew it was the weekend and it would be slow.