JI/JN Border War Mafia Game Thread

[Doggin94it]

Good morning, everyone. Except for the guy whose liver is hanging out of his stomach, the broken chianti bottle that disembowled him lying abandoned on the floor:

faba

Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Holmdel New Jersey

Posts: 16,534

vCash: 46870

Frank Costello (Faba), the townie-turned-cult member, is dead. Day 5 has begun, and will end on Thurs. at 9am

With 10 players remaining, it takes 6 votes to lynch

[Frank Costello]

Good morning, everyone. Except for the guy whose liver is hanging out of his stomach, the broken chianti bottle that disembowled him lying abandoned on the floor:

faba

Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Holmdel New Jersey

Posts: 16,534

vCash: 46870

Frank Costello (Faba), the townie-turned-cult member, is dead. Day 5 has begun, and will end on Thurs. at 9am

With 10 players remaining, it takes 6 votes to lynch

Ahh damnit.. Good luck Cult or townies..

I hate you scum..

[Vito Corleone]

Good. Nice to see dead cult for the first time this game.

Anyone think there's any significance to Frank being a JN moderator? I know the other power roles weren't mods, but just curious if anyone thinks there might be something to that. JR128 as the survivor was certainly by design, probably 124 as the vig, too. Curious what Cabot thinks about this, being that he's our only known roled player.

Frank was pretty vocal about the cult, mostly trying to calm us about how he didn't think the CL would be able to recruit every night. I'm pretty much ready to discount just about everything he had to say on the subject.

He liked Carlito as the CL, which I would say clears Carlito of being the CL. We should probably go back and see if there was anyone who he changed his tune on - who he liked for a lynch early and maybe stopped talking about. No telling how long Frank was an honest townie, but there could be a lead there.

[Vito Corleone]

We should probably go back and see if there was anyone who he changed his tune on - who he liked for a lynch early and maybe stopped talking about. No telling how long Frank was an honest townie, but there could be a lead there.

I took a look, and didn't see much. Frank loved HenrEY as the CL, so much so that I'd suspect he was already converted when that big show went down.

He liked Sonny early, and then forgot about him. That's not a major tell, though, because a lot of us liked Sonny early. I took a look at that, too, and I'll take this opportunity to note that Sonny's had exactly three posts in this thread since 5/20. He's lying exceptionally low.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Ahh damnit.. Good luck Cult or townies..

I hate you scum..

Told ya.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Great news. I believed something was up with him.

His relationship to Carlito still feels off to me however. Something I will take a closer look at when I have better internet access.

Might be unable to post much tomorrow but will check in here and there.

[Joe Cabot]

Good. Nice to see dead cult for the first time this game.

Anyone think there's any significance to Frank being a JN moderator? I know the other power roles weren't mods, but just curious if anyone thinks there might be something to that. JR128 as the survivor was certainly by design, probably 124 as the vig, too. Curious what Cabot thinks about this, being that he's our only known roled player.

Frank was pretty vocal about the cult, mostly trying to calm us about how he didn't think the CL would be able to recruit every night. I'm pretty much ready to discount just about everything he had to say on the subject.

He liked Carlito as the CL, which I would say clears Carlito of being the CL. We should probably go back and see if there was anyone who he changed his tune on - who he liked for a lynch early and maybe stopped talking about. No telling how long Frank was an honest townie, but there could be a lead there.

I haven't seen anything else in the game that would lead me to believe that him being a mod has significance. I definitely understand why you'd say that, but from the sound of the reveal it doesn't seem like he had any other sort of role aside from his cult conversion. If I had to guess I think Doggin was just trying to use names of a variety of known JN posters, because as you already pointed out, roles haven't seem to have been linked to mods or anything in the past. So the only possible thing I could think of that could have significance as a mod is if there was a group of players that had mod roles and they were some sort of mason group. Other than that I can't come up with anything.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Good. Nice to see dead cult for the first time this game.

Anyone think there's any significance to Frank being a JN moderator? I know the other power roles weren't mods, but just curious if anyone thinks there might be something to that. JR128 as the survivor was certainly by design, probably 124 as the vig, too. Curious what Cabot thinks about this, being that he's our only known roled player.

Frank was pretty vocal about the cult, mostly trying to calm us about how he didn't think the CL would be able to recruit every night. I'm pretty much ready to discount just about everything he had to say on the subject.

He liked Carlito as the CL, which I would say clears Carlito of being the CL. We should probably go back and see if there was anyone who he changed his tune on - who he liked for a lynch early and maybe stopped talking about. No telling how long Frank was an honest townie, but there could be a lead there.

Nope. John Rooney was Thor and was roleless. The mod thing means nothing.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Good morning, everyone. Except for the guy whose liver is hanging out of his stomach, the broken chianti bottle that disembowled him lying abandoned on the floor:

faba

Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Holmdel New Jersey

Posts: 16,534

vCash: 46870

Frank Costello (Faba), the townie-turned-cult member, is dead. Day 5 has begun, and will end on Thurs. at 9am

With 10 players remaining, it takes 6 votes to lynch

Nice job you scummy bastards. Now we need to lych one of you scumbags or cult mother F'ers.

You would think that the mafia would go for Joe. Or maybe they thought he would be protected. Either way they benefited from it, and it didnt hurt us because if the cult recruited again, it just cancels each other out numbers wise. And I take it Joe didnt get a guilty result on anyone with his random action?

Frank obviously knew who the CL leader was and he claimed Carlito or Sonny to be those roles. He also said Carlito would be the best lynch today. The cult wants to kill scum and town during lynchs. IMO, that means those two are more than likely not CL but could potentially still be scum.

I wonder if Frank got himself killed by anything he said. However, the scum could use the good old wifom tactic and in reality Frank was way off with his suggestions for Carlito as the next lynch.

[Ace Rothstein]

I just want to take a second and apologize to everyone for my dropoff in posts. 80 hour work weeks are taking more of a toll than I thought. It seems its a good thing since we got scum and cult taken out in the past few (real) days.

Back to game content, I don't think we should necessarily eliminate Carlito from scum suspicion but I think its safe to say up to today he isn't yet cult. However I personally would like some clarification on what happened at the end of the Montana lynch with that post collecting all of Lefty's posts and then declaring he believes Lefty is innocent...

[Fredo Corleone]

I just want to take a second and apologize to everyone for my dropoff in posts. 80 hour work weeks are taking more of a toll than I thought. It seems its a good thing since we got scum and cult taken out in the past few (real) days.

Back to game content, I don't think we should necessarily eliminate Carlito from scum suspicion but I think its safe to say up to today he isn't yet cult. However I personally would like some clarification on what happened at the end of the Montana lynch with that post collecting all of Lefty's posts and then declaring he believes Lefty is innocent...

Well I would like to thank the scum for eliminating the first mindless cultist. Well done, but we still have to kill you, nothing personal.

Ace Im with you on this. Carlito is for all intent and purpose has not been converted. I'm still not convinced he's not scum, but it's certainly reasonable he wasn't converted before last night. Though it may be possible it happen last night, but IMO not likely.

Joe and Marcellous are spot on when they say that the roles are not connected to modship. So we can comfortabley move pass that.

For today I have a very busy morning but will have a little time to check in at lunch. I'll sneak on in between work to look at a couple things and keep up. Tonight I will have ample time to do some work here.

Townies, we are back in this one. One more usccessful lynching , either scum or cult and we may pull this one out of the gutter. Well done.

[Tony Soprano]

Very nice, very nice. Thanks scum.

We sure are right back in this.

[Vito Corleone]

You guys are right about the mod/role thing. It just stood out to me, probably more because Faba doesn't have an avatar for Doggin to post. The cult concept is brand new to me. I was just trying to flesh it out a little. There was some discussion about maybe roled players losing their roles upon conversion, and Frank had made the comment to Lefty, "what if I'm the doc?" when Lefty said he'd kill him next. Figured I'd throw that out there.

In retrospect, I guess he was just trying to get the scum to shoot in a different direction.

As for the new day, I'm less interested in Carlito than I was with the info learned from Frank's death, but Sonny's as interesting as ever. I'm starting to think he's escaped too many times. Not unlike Lefty, who we had early and let go.

[Marcellus Wallace]

You guys are right about the mod/role thing. It just stood out to me, probably more because Faba doesn't have an avatar for Doggin to post. The cult concept is brand new to me. I was just trying to flesh it out a little. There was some discussion about maybe roled players losing their roles upon conversion, and Frank had made the comment to Lefty, "what if I'm the doc?" when Lefty said he'd kill him next. Figured I'd throw that out there.

In retrospect, I guess he was just trying to get the scum to shoot in a different direction.

As for the new day, I'm less interested in Carlito than I was with the info learned from Frank's death, but Sonny's as interesting as ever. I'm starting to think he's escaped too many times. Not unlike Lefty, who we had early and let go.

Vito, I gotta to tell ya, its concerning to me that you keep writing off Carlito so easily. Many have pointed out, though it seems he may not be CL or cult, he still could very well be scum. Which IMO makes more sense then cult because of that ridiculous quoting scene that absolved Lefty somehow from being scum. That move seems to me like a teammate trying to help clear one of his scum buddies name with what they perceived to be some heavy investigation that was really just pure horse dung.

However, I still like Sonny here as scum or cult. His play is ridiculously shady. He provides nothing but always seems to be here when the heat is on. Its just terribly convenient and scummy. And I cant get that Spidey Sense comment out of my head.

FOS Sonny and Carlito

[Joe Cabot]

Nice job you scummy bastards. Now we need to lych one of you scumbags or cult mother F'ers.

You would think that the mafia would go for Joe. Or maybe they thought he would be protected. Either way they benefited from it, and it didnt hurt us because if the cult recruited again, it just cancels each other out numbers wise. And I take it Joe didnt get a guilty result on anyone with his random action?

Frank obviously knew who the CL leader was and he claimed Carlito or Sonny to be those roles. He also said Carlito would be the best lynch today. The cult wants to kill scum and town during lynchs. IMO, that means those two are more than likely not CL but could potentially still be scum.

I wonder if Frank got himself killed by anything he said. However, the scum could use the good old wifom tactic and in reality Frank was way off with his suggestions for Carlito as the next lynch.

I received no information whatsoever last night. I didn't get a result or any sort of indication on what kind of action took place.

If I would have to guess why I'm still around as a roled townie, the mafia probably figured they needed to hit cult more than anything and that I was a likely lynch target anyway, so why use the kill on me. And the cult probably avoided me for the same reason, why convert a guy who's already a suspect? Not that I expect you to all take my word on this, but just giving my thoughts on why I went untouched.

[Marcellus Wallace]

I received no information whatsoever last night. I didn't get a result or any sort of indication on what kind of action took place.

If I would have to guess why I'm still around as a roled townie, the mafia probably figured they needed to hit cult more than anything and that I was a likely lynch target anyway, so why use the kill on me. And the cult probably avoided me for the same reason, why convert a guy who's already a suspect? Not that I expect you to all take my word on this, but just giving my thoughts on why I went untouched.

Hmmm. Unfortunately we have to take your word that the cult avoided you...which is something we are all clinging to right now with your role reveal...your word. Hell, you could have been cult before the night phase.

About your actions, so if someone doesnt show up silent, then we are to assume that your random action was a protection since you didnt get an alignment notification and nobody extra was dead in the night scene. Or are there more actions that you can use at night that I am not recognizing them right now?

[Tony Soprano]

My big three are Carlito (scum), Sonny (cult), and Joe (scum).

That reveal of Joe's just still seem so outlandish, but he is helped by giving us Lefty, I guess.

[Joe Cabot]

Hmmm. Unfortunately we have to take your word that the cult avoided you...which is something we are all clinging to right now with your role reveal...your word. Hell, you could have been cult before the night phase.

About your actions, so if someone doesnt show up silent, then we are to assume that your random action was a protection since you didnt get an alignment notification and nobody extra was dead in the night scene. Or are there more actions that you can use at night that I am not recognizing them right now?

I'm under the impression my night role can turn out to be anything. Keep in mind, that silencing thing was never mentioned as a possibility in my PM.

[Vito Corleone]

My big three are Carlito (scum), Sonny (cult), and Joe (scum).

That reveal of Joe's just still seem so outlandish, but he is helped by giving us Lefty, I guess.

I saw Carlito more as cult than scum, but the more I think about it his reposting of every post Lefty had contributed to that point in the game was bizarre at best - some effort to protect a scum teammate at worst. Frank liking him as the CL is throwing me off, I think. I probably need to get past that.

[Marcellus Wallace]

My big three are Carlito (scum), Sonny (cult), and Joe (scum).

That reveal of Joe's just still seem so outlandish, but he is helped by giving us Lefty, I guess.

I am feeling the same way. Joe could go either way with cult or scum though, its possible he was picked up last night by the cult or maybe he has been cult all along. We have no clue, but I dont like his story and I dont like his role. Its seems very dangerous to me and if it isnt helping us today...I am starting to think he might be the guy to lynch.

Yes, he got us one guy in Lefty, but what if he costs us a townie with one of his night moves? And him silencing people doesnt help the town either. It could be the reason we dont lynch scum/cult and the reason we do lynch town. And if one of his actions is protecting, he could possibly protect fron a NK of scum.

Overall, the more I think about it, I am not very comfortable with Joe.

I'm under the impression my night role can turn out to be anything. Keep in mind, that silencing thing was never mentioned as a possibility in my PM.

I dont see how a totally unpredictable role benefits the town. I am almost feeling like we you have done all the good you can by getting us one of the scum and now I am trying to figure out whay else positive you have to offer. Fill me in, because for some reason, I can only view the negatives in your role right now.

I saw Carlito more as cult than scum, but the more I think about it his reposting of every post Lefty had contributed to that point in the game was bizarre at best - some effort to protect a scum teammate at worst. Frank liking him as the CL is throwing me off, I think. I probably need to get past that.

Vito, did you come to this conclusion on your own?

I only called you out on it and explained the same thing a couple of posts ago...lol.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Vote: Joe Cabot

I think we got our cult leader right here.

In EY's zombie game Jiffy Conway was reborn as a rival scum team. He tried to kill CTM and failed cause CTM was already a zombie and JIF couldn't kill other zombies. Therefore JIF knew that CTM was a zombie.

This is what we could be dealing with this game.

Joe Cabot is the cult leader. Night 2 he tried to convert Lefty. Lefty was scum and the cult couldn't convert scum. Therefore it failed. Because it failed Joe now knew Lefty was scum. On all the other nights Joe claims to not know what happened with his action. I'm gonna guess sucsessful conversions which obviously he wouldn't want to share.

Frank was really quick to believe Joe's role reveal. Almost too quick for my liking. Just another thing to think about

[Virgil Sollozzo]

Joe, who did you target last night.

He gave a few examples, but made it clear that anything could happen. I was given no indication of which ones would happen or in what order they would actually occur and he did say that the result would be random. The only reason I even knew I had an investigation that night is because obviously doggin had to give me the result. Other than that, he's left me in the dark about everything I've been doing.

Can you tell us what were some of those examples.

[Virgil Sollozzo]

I am feeling the same way. Joe could go either way with cult or scum though, its possible he was picked up last night by the cult or maybe he has been cult all along. We have no clue, but I dont like his story and I dont like his role. Its seems very dangerous to me and if it isnt helping us today...I am starting to think he might be the guy to lynch.

Yes, he got us one guy in Lefty, but what if he costs us a townie with one of his night moves? And him silencing people doesnt help the town either. It could be the reason we dont lynch scum/cult and the reason we do lynch town. And if one of his actions is protecting, he could possibly protect fron a NK of scum.

Overall, the more I think about it, I am not very comfortable with Joe.

I dont see how a totally unpredictable role benefits the town. I am almost feeling like we you have done all the good you can by getting us one of the scum and now I am trying to figure out whay else positive you have to offer. Fill me in, because for some reason, I can only view the negatives in your role right now.

I am uncomfortable with Cabot too. The Frank-Joe-Carlito triangle interests me. We have Frank oscillating from one extreme to the other. Agreeing with Carlito early then wanting to lynch him as cult leader. We have Joe defending Carlito and pointing suspicion at those voting for Carlito. But evidently suspicious enough of Carlito to target him. We have Frank believing Joe's role more readily than the rest of us. And Carlito backing up Joe's reveal by claiming to be silenced.

I have difficulty untangling this web. I wonder too if these diversions are created to distract from Sonny.

It is imperative we hear from Carlito and Sonny today.

[Fredo Corleone]

I saw Carlito more as cult than scum, but the more I think about it his reposting of every post Lefty had contributed to that point in the game was bizarre at best - some effort to protect a scum teammate at worst. Frank liking him as the CL is throwing me off, I think. I probably need to get past that.

Yes, I think you need to get over it, because from what I understand of the role, Doggin correct me if I'm wrong, but it is entirely possible that Frank was both recruited and NK'ed on the same evening. That said, Frank would know nothing about the Cult even though he flipped cult and could mean that he was on to something hence why both teams were after him at night.

No way to know for sure but I'm pretty sure this is a good possibility and has to be considered in any argument. So dismissing Frank's Ideas about the setup isn't anything we can afford to do at this point.

Vote: Joe Cabot

I think we got our cult leader right here.

In EY's zombie game Jiffy Conway was reborn as a rival scum team. He tried to kill CTM and failed cause CTM was already a zombie and JIF couldn't kill other zombies. Therefore JIF knew that CTM was a zombie.

This is what we could be dealing with this game.

Joe Cabot is the cult leader. Night 2 he tried to convert Lefty. Lefty was scum and the cult couldn't convert scum. Therefore it failed. Because it failed Joe now knew Lefty was scum. On all the other nights Joe claims to not know what happened with his action. I'm gonna guess sucsessful conversions which obviously he wouldn't want to share.

Frank was really quick to believe Joe's role reveal. Almost too quick for my liking. Just another thing to think about

Interesting point here. The other thing is the possibility that Joe may also be a mafia convert. Something to think about. I will get back later tonight and have more to add.

[Vito Corleone]

Vito, did you come to this conclusion on your own?

I only called you out on it and explained the same thing a couple of posts ago...lol.

I'm a little slow on the uptake.

I had one thing in my head, now I have to readjust.

Vote: Joe Cabot

I think we got our cult leader right here.

In EY's zombie game Jiffy Conway was reborn as a rival scum team. He tried to kill CTM and failed cause CTM was already a zombie and JIF couldn't kill other zombies. Therefore JIF knew that CTM was a zombie.

This is what we could be dealing with this game.

Joe Cabot is the cult leader. Night 2 he tried to convert Lefty. Lefty was scum and the cult couldn't convert scum. Therefore it failed. Because it failed Joe now knew Lefty was scum. On all the other nights Joe claims to not know what happened with his action. I'm gonna guess sucsessful conversions which obviously he wouldn't want to share.

Frank was really quick to believe Joe's role reveal. Almost too quick for my liking. Just another thing to think about

Interesting. The idea crossed my mind, too, that one way Joe would "know" Lefty was scum would be a failed conversion attempt.

I'd say the loose end would be Carlito's silent day that was supposedly Cabot performing some mystery action on him. I'm fairly new to the game, but a night power that silences a player for a day is a new one on me - and Frank was very, very quick to jump on that as a probability. That actually cleans up pretty nicely.

Not to mention that I tend to agree with Conway that even if Cabot has the power he says he has, it's dangerous. If he could be a finder one night, he could be a vig who takes out a townie another night.

[Vito Corleone]

Yes, I think you need to get over it, because from what I understand of the role, Doggin correct me if I'm wrong, but it is entirely possible that Frank was both recruited and NK'ed on the same evening. That said, Frank would know nothing about the Cult even though he flipped cult and could mean that he was on to something hence why both teams were after him at night.

No way to know for sure but I'm pretty sure this is a good possibility and has to be considered in any argument. So dismissing Frank's Ideas about the setup isn't anything we can afford to do at this point.

I strongly suspect that Frank was converted before HenrEY's meltdown. EY was all over the place that night, with cult leader being just one of his claims. But Frank was all over that, and stayed with it. In a way that I thought didn't jibe with his otherwise intelligent approach to the game.

I think he knew for sure that EY wasn't the CL, and was anxious to lynch a townie (or anyone who wasn't yet cult) there.

[Marcellus Wallace]

I am uncomfortable with Cabot too. The Frank-Joe-Carlito triangle interests me. We have Frank oscillating from one extreme to the other. Agreeing with Carlito early then wanting to lynch him as cult leader. We have Joe defending Carlito and pointing suspicion at those voting for Carlito. But evidently suspicious enough of Carlito to target him. We have Frank believing Joe's role more readily than the rest of us. And Carlito backing up Joe's reveal by claiming to be silenced.

I have difficulty untangling this web. I wonder too if these diversions are created to distract from Sonny.

It is imperative we hear from Carlito and Sonny today.

Yep and you know what? Carlito doesnt have his invisible mode activated. I saw him this morning lurking. WTF is that?

Not a post. Not a simple, hey Im busy, great job nk'ing the cult, lets go town, Ill be back later with thoughts....nothing.

How long does that take?

Its clear to me that Joe or Carlito are our choices right now. It sucks because Sonny is playing scummy and I think there is something to the fact Joe kept defending him for his inactivity. He keeps avoiding lynch's, but we have more to go on with the other two choices. Especially knowing that I saw Carlito lurking which makes me feel almost positive he is either scum or cult. Then you have Joe who IMO is extremely dangerous to the town for many different reasons.

[Joe Cabot]

Vote: Joe Cabot

I think we got our cult leader right here.

In EY's zombie game Jiffy Conway was reborn as a rival scum team. He tried to kill CTM and failed cause CTM was already a zombie and JIF couldn't kill other zombies. Therefore JIF knew that CTM was a zombie.

This is what we could be dealing with this game.

Joe Cabot is the cult leader. Night 2 he tried to convert Lefty. Lefty was scum and the cult couldn't convert scum. Therefore it failed. Because it failed Joe now knew Lefty was scum. On all the other nights Joe claims to not know what happened with his action. I'm gonna guess sucsessful conversions which obviously he wouldn't want to share.

Frank was really quick to believe Joe's role reveal. Almost too quick for my liking. Just another thing to think about

Interesting theory, but I would like to point out that I targeted Carlito two nights ago, which I told you all about that day. Last night Carlito posted after not having done so all day and pointed out how he was muted for the day. Now is it a lucky coincidence that some random night action occurred to the player who I said that I targetted? While I don't expect people to just blindly trust me and I get the suspicion given the circumstances, your theory has some major holes in it.

[Joe Cabot]

Joe, who did you target last night.

Can you tell us what were some of those examples.

I wanted to hold off on revealing who I targeted last night until we heard from some other people a little more. I have no problem giving the info, just wanted to hold off for the moment, unless you guys are really insistent that I not do so.

As far as examples, the possibilities doggin told me that could happen to the targets were death, healing, finder results or something else. That was all I was told.

[Ace Rothstein]

Interesting theory, but I would like to point out that I targeted Carlito two nights ago, which I told you all about that day. Last night Carlito posted after not having done so all day and pointed out how he was muted for the day. Now is it a lucky coincidence that some random night action occurred to the player who I said that I targetted? While I don't expect people to just blindly trust me and I get the suspicion given the circumstances, your theory has some major holes in it.

Or maybe you converted him and told him to stay quiet for the day so you could role claim like you have and he's your proof?

Not saying I believe that but I'm sure you'll understand if I don't completely dismiss the idea.

[Marcellus Wallace]

I wanted to hold off on revealing who I targeted last night until we heard from some other people a little more. I have no problem giving the info, just wanted to hold off for the moment, unless you guys are really insistent that I not do so.

As far as examples, the possibilities doggin told me that could happen to the targets were death, healing, finder results or something else. That was all I was told.

Then how come we haven't seen a death yet? You listed 4 possible outcomes and have 4 nights to use your "powers". But we've still yet to see you kill some one. I realize that Doggin could be using some kind of random draw to decide what you do and that way death my not have come up but I'm still not buying this role.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Interesting theory, but I would like to point out that I targeted Carlito two nights ago, which I told you all about that day. Last night Carlito posted after not having done so all day and pointed out how he was muted for the day. Now is it a lucky coincidence that some random night action occurred to the player who I said that I targetted? While I don't expect people to just blindly trust me and I get the suspicion given the circumstances, your theory has some major holes in it.

I don't like this exchange below. And therefore I don't like your story.

Oh, the lovely lovely sound of my voice.

I was silenced last night, hence my not talking before now. I've been actively following whats going on though. More thoughts later, but for now, I'm not Cult Leader, I'm not cult at all.

WOah, I believe this. Here's why:

THis post:

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1281119&postcount=1371

I asked doggin to mod prod Carlito and he responded no, which was odd as I've never seen a mod do this.

and

this post:

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1281764&postcount=1398

Joe targetted Carlito last night..

[Vito Corleone]

Interesting theory, but I would like to point out that I targeted Carlito two nights ago, which I told you all about that day. Last night Carlito posted after not having done so all day and pointed out how he was muted for the day. Now is it a lucky coincidence that some random night action occurred to the player who I said that I targetted? While I don't expect people to just blindly trust me and I get the suspicion given the circumstances, your theory has some major holes in it.

It's possible that it's a lucky coincidence. This was Carlito's at the end of that day:

Oh, the lovely lovely sound of my voice.

I was silenced last night, hence my not talking before now. I've been actively following whats going on though. More thoughts later, but for now, I'm not Cult Leader, I'm not cult at all.

He hasn't been back since. It's going on five days, now. Carlito could've been full of crap, just covering for a lack of activity - giving you and Frank the opening to jump on it.

And the fact that it wasn't you who made the connection, but Frank Costello -now confirmed cult- makes it even dicier. It could have been luck. Could have also been a plot cooked up by you, Frank, and Carlito to give your "role" a little more credibility. Your strong defense of Carlito is also troubling. Going so far as to say anyone who votes for him while you were pushing Lefty should be considered potential scum. Seems like just about everybody else in the game recognizes that Carlito's play has been scummy under two different players.

As far as examples, the possibilities doggin told me that could happen to the targets were death, healing, finder results or something else. That was all I was told.

This makes two reasons to vote for you.

vote: Joe Cabot

Even if you're telling us the truth, you've said that Doggin requires that you put in a name each night. As far as the town goes, we've already gotten the best possible result out of you that we could hope for in the investigation on Lefty. It's unlikely that we'll get another one of those. We still haven't seen you kill someone at night, and that's an extremely dangerous potential. You make it thru another day, and we could have two dead townies tonight.

Between that and the real possibility that you're the CL, I'm comfortable with my vote here.

[Fredo Corleone]

Then how come we haven't seen a death yet? You listed 4 possible outcomes and have 4 nights to use your "powers". But we've still yet to see you kill some one. I realize that Doggin could be using some kind of random draw to decide what you do and that way death my not have come up but I'm still not buying this role.

Is it possible that Joe's action is what killed Nicky or Michael night 1? I know we assumed that the Scum got one and Nicky vig'ed Michael, but is it possible that it was Joe's action?

The thing is we really don't have a good reason to keep Joe in the game. It seems the chances are good he is either scum or Cult. Without Carlito or Sonny talking he may be the best vote for now. Not to mention if he really has that power, its just another way a townie can die at night. With no way to control it, it's potential for bad is as much as for good. Not to mention he has nothing he wants to share about it.

vote: JOE

[Marcellus Wallace]

Is it possible that Joe's action is what killed Nicky or Michael night 1? I know we assumed that the Scum got one and Nicky vig'ed Michael, but is it possible that it was Joe's action?

The thing is we really don't have a good reason to keep Joe in the game. It seems the chances are good he is either scum or Cult. Without Carlito or Sonny talking he may be the best vote for now. Not to mention if he really has that power, its just another way a townie can die at night. With no way to control it, it's potential for bad is as much as for good. Not to mention he has nothing he wants to share about it.

vote: JOE

Joe said he targeted himself by default night one so I'm gonna say no.